jimmie50

The 3 days I did already mention to him...just asking if it would be something he is interested in doing. That was an easy conversation to have. Based upon what other forum members have recommended, we have confirmed the 3 days at THB 10,000...although I am sure I will give him 12,000. That would fit with my thinking all along of 4,000 per day. So...that is basically a done deal. The difficult conversation is about a more long term arrangement...and what that might even look like. I am beginning to think I should maybe put that idea on the back burner, so to speak, and let time and distance put things into better perspective for me. Removing myself from the present situation could change my thoughts on the idea. I feel like we will maintain some type of communication once I return home via Line, and just kind of take a step back and see what happens moving forward. I am planning a return trip later in the year, but no definite dates just yet. I also plan to make that trip unannounced...other than possibly Cam. I do not want my straight friends to know, as they will try to plan outings and activities that will distract me from other more important matters. LOL. I don't want my current group of regulars to know as I don't want any expectations or assumptions made in advance. Going to follow advice of other forum members and not share too much information.

continued…Installment 21: No texts from Banana guy, so I think he got my message loud and clear. Not sure I will see him again before my departure on April 2. Too many other fish in the sea. Decided on a quiet afternoon and didn’t schedule any activities. Met Cam at 8pm outside of Hotmale, provided him with off fee and since I have done that a few times now avoiding the need to buy us both a drink in the club I thought it would be wise to tell him give THB 200 tip to head mamasan to keep us in her good graces. lol. Decided to try Happy Beer Garden for dinner, but did not get the cashew chicken. I was in the mood for something different, so we ordered Tom Yum soup, Pad Thai w/shrimp, and deep fried chicken wings. We sat on the second floor in a room with A/C and some interesting decor on the ceiling. Artificial flowers outlined light fixtures and it almost looked like Christmas tree ornaments hanging everywhere. Food was good. Definitely a place I would go back to, but don’t think I would want to sit on the first floor as no A/C. Cam said that Sarica and Happy Beer Garden are owned by the same people. Not sure if that is true or not…forum members may be more knowledgeable about this. Too early to go back to the condo, so decided to check out another club. Went to Moonlight, since I had not been to this club on this trip just yet. Usual parade of number guys…I counted 11 guys in the rotation. 10 customers including us…mostly Asian guys, but one older Caucasian. One number boy was sitting with an older Asian customer. Eventually they would leave together. Just as I noted on my previous visit to this club, the number of employees far outnumbered the customers. Show started late and consisted mostly of the models. Got that same standoffish attitude from the models as I noticed the first time I visited this club. Headed back to the condo after the show, showered together, did the wild thing and spent the night wrapped in each other’s arms. Really enjoy the time I spend with Cam more and more. Going to be difficult leaving him behind. Slept later than usual, went for some breakfast, came back and took a swim, then went to the fitness room where he worked out and I simply admired the view. lol. Gym and exercise just not my thing, but enjoy watching him. After his workout, we said our goodbyes and he headed back home. I took a nice, long nap in the afternoon because in the evening I met Paradise guy. We went and grabbed some dinner, came back to the condo and watched a movie, did the wild thing, and he spent the night. He is not quite into the cuddling during the night like Cam is, but other wise was a nice evening once again. After we ate some breakfast he showered and headed off to work. I needed to pack a few things for a few days out of Bangkok. Friends are picking me up at noon. Won’t see any of my regulars for the next few days as am going to Pattaya in the morning with my straight friends. They have some sort of boat excursion planned on Sunday out to one of the islands near Pattaya that will include some snorkeling and BBQ. Plan on staying in Pattaya a couple of days on my own before returning to Bangkok Wednesday morning. Will be interesting to see what mischief I can find around Jomtien Complex.

This is where I am having conflict within myself. First of all, I am not sure how these types of arrangements really work. I know that I am not really interested in being a sponsor for someone providing a set amount to money every month for living expenses. I am only willing to do that if we are actually a couple living together. I also don't know how you negotiate something like a boyfriend relationship with someone who works in the club. Boyfriend to me would mean exclusivity. How does that even work for a guy working in the club?!? The reason they are working in the club in the first place is to make money. To make the most money possible, they know it will require going 'off' with customers. The exclusive thing just doesn't fit that business model. If there isn't any 'off' taking place, what is the point of working the club in the first place. Really curious what types of arrangements other forum members have who have 'regular' guys. While I have enjoyed meeting a number of different guys this trip and enjoyed regular sessions, only one has peaked my interest enough to even consider any of this, and that would be Cam. I really don't know how to even approach the subject with him or if it is something that he would even be interested in. I also don't know exactly what I would be suggesting, given this inner struggle taking place in my mind. I certainly don't want to make any promises that I cannot or will not keep. I don't want to be 'all talk, no action' or empty promises, so to speak.

I am the relatively new kid on the block, so to speak, so have no experience prior to the last maybe 9 months. I missed the days of Soi Twilight and how connections used to be made. My only point of reference is what I have experienced, which is mostly in person meets first, either in massage shops or clubs, then via Line if we exchange account information. I learned prior to my first 'fun' trip in October by reading many posts and asking lots of questions on the forum. That has helped me keep my generosity in check most of the time. I also am careful about what I say and never promise anything. Even those I have been seeing somewhat regularly, I never 100% guarantee a next time or promise exactly when we might get together again. I always say to the guys from massage shops who exchange Line accounts with me that if we meet away from the shop they are able to keep 100% of the money versus me paying the shop for a massage, them getting THB 150 and whatever I might be willing to provide as a tip. Hopefully the fact it is putting more money in their pockets makes it an attractive situation for both of us. I am naturally curious and enjoy learning a little about the guys...where they are from, if they have siblings, how long they have worked at the shop, and things along those lines. Never any promises like 'I'll take care of you, you are special, I love you', or anything like that. The reverse has been the case with Paradise guy, in that he has used the 'L' word with me a number of times now. I do not respond in kind when he says it. The closest thing with any of the guys is when they send me some cute or humorous sticker or emoji via Line I might return something similar. That could include a heart or blowing kisses. I don't believe anyone could misconstrue that as declaring love or promising anything. I do understand what you are saying. These guys have heard empty promises for years. They are rightfully skeptical, especially when promises are made that simply sound like a repeat of something they have heard over and over again but never come to fruition.

Completely understandable. Nothing has ever been mentioned to me about any minimums for short term or long term at Hotmale. Not sure such a thing exists there. I was actually thinking about falling between @vinapu at THB 3000 and you at THB 5000 by offering Cam THB 4000 for the three days. Again, this is all just in my pea-sized brain at the moment. lol. Haven't actually discussed details with Cam yet...only to confirm that he would be open to the possibility.

Thanks for sharing. I think the tone of Banana guy's message was more of an aggressive mood...at least my instincts. Would rather spend my time with Cam, anyway, so his tactic sort of backfired on him. Not in any type of sponsor/bf/exclusive arrangement, but toying with the idea of that with Cam. Not sure how all of that works, though. When they work in the club, I don't know how it is possible for them to be exclusive. That is how they really make the most of their money...offs by customers. What little they get from the bar for showing up and maybe money from a customer buying them a drink isn't enough to cover daily living expenses. Don't know that I want to be considered as a sponsor, either, providing a regular stipend. Something I am trying to reconcile within myself before approaching the subject with Cam. Want to make sure I am clear in my thinking and expectations before committing to anything.

He is Cambodian, so not a native English speaker, but his English is quite good and we haven't had any issues communicating previously. I think it was an aggressive move or power play, and I wasn't willing to play the game. While I enjoyed his company, there are others I have met on this trip just as good and nice who I would like to spend time with before my return to US.

Top is usually what I am looking for, but I prefer to find someone that lists T/B rather than strictly top. My rationale is probably off in left field somewhere, but I like more of a boyfriend experience with playful, sensual aspects throughout. Those who are strictly top I assume are straight and will perform but it will be more mechanical and lack the intimacy I prefer. I assume those who list T/B may be gay or bi and more open to the type of experience I enjoy. Kissing is something I really enjoy, and those who are strictly top and straight will not kiss or just give light pecks. Naturally, it doesn't always work out that way. At one time this shop would put a small rainbow flag on the photos they posted so you could easily identify who was gay. They haven't done that in quite some time, though.

This reminds be about stinky tofu in Taiwan. Personally, I never minded the smell and enjoyed eating it. Recall several night markets I visited with delicious stinky tofu. I have tried durian as well. I don't really get an onion smell from it, and the smell doesn't really bother me. I just don't care for the taste in general. My straight Thai friends don't care for it and often complain about the smell and taste. lol.

continued…Installment 20: Woke up to messages from Paradise guy, Banana guy, Chaichana guy and Cam. All of them came in during the night after they finished work with exception of Paradise guy. Most of the time it is the same thing from everyone…’hello’, followed by ‘how are you’. Paradise guy is almost always ‘what are you doing’. Banana guy is the more aggressive of them all, always asking when I am coming to see him again. Guy from Green massage is coming over this afternoon. While he has ‘massage experience’ from both Paradise and Green massage, in our text messages to set up today’s session he mentioned a couple of times that he has never met with a massage customer outside of the shops before. He also said I was his first time doing full on sex in either shop. Before he has only done hand job. Not sure how truthful the last part is, because he was definitely instigating the play at Green when I saw him, but I do believe his statement about never meeting a customer outside. I can tell from the tone of his messages that he is a little nervous or anxious. It seems the larger group of traveling forum members in Bangkok has now dwindled down to just two of us. Met other forum member for dinner after both of us had afternoon extracurricular activities. Nice dinner at a great Italian restaurant in Central Park. Would definitely go back, and highly recommend. Following dinner we walked over to Patpong 2. Debated which club to visit, and ultimately decided on Dream Boy. This was my first visit to Dream Boy. Just like we all have our preferences for our gentlemen friends, we all have clubs that we prefer for various reasons. I was not overly impressed with Dream Boy. Found very few guys of interest to me; way too many mamasan’s or waiters acting as a mamasan…not sure which…and all very pushy; too many loud, large parties with big spenders who had way too much alcohol and assumed they were the only patrons in the bar; show was disappointing and DJ was terrible with transitions between the acts. I would return if I was in a group and that was the club most of the group wanted to visit. On my own, probably would not return to Dream Boy. Did not see my massage guy from Prince in the line-up, so must have been his night off. We decided to leave after the first show was over. Other forum member was calling it an early evening to go pack before departure the next morning. I walked across the alley to Hotmale. Was going to see if Cam was there or had gone with a customer. Turns out he was with a customer, so I decided to make it an early night as well and headed back to the condo. Sent him a text letting him know I did stop by, because I was sure someone at Hotmale would tell him. Turns out his outing with the customer was short and he was already at home. Offered to come over to the condo, but by that time I decided to just get a good nights sleep and we agreed to meet the next night for dinner and he will spend the night again. Just to update everyone on Banana guy…he sent me a text early evening letting me know he was free and wanted me to come take him off. Told him I had plans for dinner with a friend and wasn’t sure what we might do after dinner. Basically said ‘some other time’ to him. After I said that, he replied with the following: ‘I’m free tonight if you want to meet up. Maybe from tomorrow onwards I will be busy because of my clients.’ I really didn’t care for the pressure tactics or tone of his message, so I promptly responded 'I am busy tonight. If I am free later in the week and you are busy with other customers, I will find another boy. No problem.' I think I am going to let him stew on that for a little while before connecting with him again…if I even connect again this trip. His comment kind of turned me away from him….had the opposite effect of what he was going for.

I think that is the normal schedule for most of the guys working clubs. They don't get home until 1:30 or 2am and probably not ready to sleep until 3am. Then they sleep all day until time to get up and start the routine all over again. Cam would have that same routine, which is why I am agreeable to going to a club to watch the show after dinner. My preference would be to head directly back to the hotel and sleep at a reasonable hour (for me). I know that doesn't work for him. So, shower and playtime after returning to the hotel needs to be later and sleep time later to accommodate his normal schedule. The difference for my situation is Cam won't be going to work. I am paying the off fee so he doesn't need to be there. To be honest, I'm not sure I would be ok with him spending the day with me, then going to work at the club, and then come back to me. That isn't exactly the experience I am looking for. I do not know if his club has a set off fee for ST and LT or not. He has never mentioned it, nor has mamasan...other than THB 500 off fee to club. Mamasan has not tried to interfere with our negotiations when in the club, and the last few times we haven't even gone inside the club. Mamasan knows he is off with me and that is the end of the discussion between us. Anything else is worked out between me and Cam.

Definitely sounds like you got the best deal. I am only be talking about three days for now, but could easily see doing some traveling and longer stays with Cam in the future. I much prefer the type of arrangement you describe with your Pattaya guy. Not so much interested in the type of arrangement you had with the Bangkok guy. I might just be seeing what I want to, or perhaps wishful thinking on my part, but I think Cam would prefer me taking him off from the bar and spending the night. Just my perception based on experience so far, but again, could be what he wants me to think.

I agree with you...I want the negotiations out of the way from the very beginning so the time together can be enjoyable without any discussion of compensation. I will definitely confirm with Cam in advance that he is available for dates I am thinking about, that he is interested in spending that amount of time with me, and what the financial arrangements are. As for spending that length of time together compared to what we usually do, I am sure we will both need some space or down time. I am ok with that. I don't think I would be able to spend 24/7 with anyone, to be honest, whether family, friend, boyfriend, paid companion, or anyone else. lol.

I haven't been quite that generous. lol. Most of the massage shop guys are anywhere between THB 1200-2000 at the most. However, Paradise guy is a little bit different. Since he takes days off at the shop to spend time with me and never asks for money, when I do go see him at the shop at give him THB 3000. This was never negotiated by him or something he specifically requested of me...more out of my feelings of guilt for him never asking and taking days off. It just ways on my conscious a bit, that's all. For the massage guys like Chaichana who come to see me at the condo, I give them what I would have paid the shop for a one hour massage (around THB 600-800) and am careful to point out they are getting the total amount, massage plus tip, which they would not normally get. My perspective on the guys from the clubs is slightly different, as I treat that as a game and rather enjoy the chase. Most of the time they start high...minimum of THB 3000, but sometimes as much as 5000. I just laugh and say no thanks. Next. Then the price suddenly drops and they ask how much you pay? Then I start at 1500. Other than Paradise guy or Cam from Hotmale, I don't think they guys would classify me as a big spender or overly generous. I am fair, however, and do not expect something for nothing or as little as possible. It is a business, and they need to make a 'living wage', so to speak. Some are supporting not only themselves but families of their own, or sending money home to family.

I am like you. I don't understand the importance or significance of bringing this up now. We have far more pressing issues that deserve immediate attention...such as freedom of speech, freedom of the press, constitutional rights...all of which are under attack by the current regime. Is the NY Times that desperate for new articles?!?

I agree. Listened to it and I didn't really notice any real animosity. Think it was just playful banter.

continued…Installment 19: Getting a little concerned that Paradise guy might be getting a little too attached or possessive. Saw him today at the shop. Since he never asks for or accepts money when he takes the day off to be with me, it worries me so that I make a point of seeing him in the shop because the environment is different than the condo and he gratefully accepts tip as he is working. Of course, I am probably too generous and try to make up for the missed days of work. As a result, I am not helping the situation of him becoming too attached. As I recall, several forum members have posted on here before that they do not always let their special friends know in advance they are coming to Thailand. I think I need to follow that rule of thumb if I return in the fall. In talking to a wise and more experienced forum member about the situation, he said the reality is he isn’t really giving up much by taking the day off to be with me. If he only gets one 60 minute massage per day and the shop only pays him THB 155 for that massage, when out with me I always pay for everything. He doesn’t make any money, but he also doesn’t spend any money. It was early afternoon, so I wouldn’t expect the shop to be busy, but I was the first and only customer of the day with 12 boys on hand. We usually dispense with most of the massage and just have play time for 90 or 120 minutes. Today I just did 90 minutes as I am expecting Rainbow Dragon boy this evening between 7-8pm. I need some time to rest and freshen up in-between sessions. lol. Ran into a forum member still in town on Silom right after leaving Paradise and was heading to BTS. We chatted briefly and both agreed it was extremely hot today in the city…temperature hot, that is. No other inference. lol. Rainbow Dragon boy showed up an hour early. I had just finished taking a shower when he sent me a text stating he had arrived. Went down to the lobby to greet him and we decided to go get a quick bite to eat. We had both skipped lunch and hadn’t had dinner yet. Any number of places nearby, so just had some chicken and noodles at a small shop. Ordered take out and went back to the condo to eat. Enjoy the conversation with him as much as I do the play time. He was quite interested with the Oscars and surprised that I didn’t watch it. Told him I am not into movies or Hollywood that much, but I had read the news and was aware of the winners. It was his off day, so not sure what he did during the day that made him so tired, but we cuddled for quite some time after doing the wild thing and both fell asleep for probably 45 minutes. Eventually he took a shower before heading home…or out…not sure where he was going after leaving me. Didn’t ask him, and he didn’t volunteer any information. Only 9:30pm, so plenty of time for him to have something else lined up. As for me…I am exhausted. Really need a good, long sleep tonight. Escapades are starting to catch up with me and I am feeling my age. lol. Circling back to my earlier comment about Paradise guy, got up to pee around 11:45pm to find a text message from him sent around 10:40pm asking me what I was doing. I knew this meant he wanted to come over and spend the night when the shop closed. Went back to bed and didn’t respond until morning. So here is a question for forum members who have a regular guy you see every trip rather consistently. How generous are you with them? I wouldn’t say I am extravagant, but I do give him what the model types ask for at the more fancy, exclusive shops like History, Klover, Glam, SMS Sanctuary, etc. And what is the frequency of your time together? I really think he would come see me or have me come see him every day if I agreed to that…which I won’t. I am thinking I need to establish some definite ground rules if I continue to see him on future trips.

ok, so I have a question for forum members. I have read posts where some of you have traveled with some of ‘your guys’ outside of Bangkok. I am not thinking of actually traveling with one of my guys, at least not on this trip, but doing something a little similar. I want to pay the bar off fee for Cam for two or three nights before my return to Denver on April 2. This will allow us to spend my final two or three days in Bangkok with him the entire time. I would, of course, pay for any expenses we might have, but am unsure what would be a fair and reasonable amount to offer during negotiations. I have mentioned this to him as a possibility, and he was very eager and excited about the prospect. We did not discuss compensation at that time. Would appreciate advice or recommendations from forum members more knowledgeable about a longer term arrangement like this. Thanks in advance.

continued…Installment 18: I must say it has been nice with several forum members in the city at the same time. We have been able to connect on a number of occasions now. After entertaining Chaichana guy for a couple of hours early afternoon, I made my way over to Silom. Was going to do a little shopping and people watching while waiting for time to meet Cam. Decided to hang out at the Starbucks on Surawong across from Pink Panther. Noticed the other day at the food booth just outside Pink Panther a cute young man working that I wanted to spend a little time observing. I think this booth is a family-type business. He is similar in appearance to some of the guys who work at Good Boy. This was late afternoon. Meeting Cam at Midnight Bar somewhere between 8-8:30pm. Had a message from another forum member who had finished a late afternoon massage, rested a bit and was heading out so joined me at Starbucks. We then headed over to Midnight. I stayed to wait for Cam while he went on to meet another forum member who was eating dinner with a companion at UNESCO World Famous Foodland. Both members soon came back to Midnight and Cam arrived shortly after that. Gave him the off fee to take upstairs to mamasan at Hotmale, then asked him where he would like to get dinner. Should come as no surprise that he said Foodland, so we walked over there to grab a bite to eat before heading to Fresh Boys. One forum member would join us later at Fresh Boys while the other had plans for karaoke with several guys. When we initially arrived at Fresh Boy we were the first two customers. This was around 9:40pm and show was scheduled to begin at 10:15pm. Eventually more customers trickled in so by the time the show started there were at least as many customers as number guys on stage…roughly 25 people. Mostly older, white farangs, some with an Asian companion (like me), younger European couple, group of Japanese guys in mid-30’s, couple of females. Show was somewhat interesting and entertaining, although a couple of the numbers should have ended a lot sooner…just seemed like they were dragging on forever and would never end. We stayed for the entire first show and maybe two segments of the second show before heading back to the condo. Other forum member left after the first show to join karaoke fun. Cam certainly did not disappoint when we got back to the condo. He knows what I enjoy and is very good at it. Nice falling asleep feeling his naked body against mine and his arms wrapped tightly around me. Sleep a little later than usual when he is with me, went out for some breakfast, then he headed off to home. At some point during the day, Paradise guy had sent me a message wanting to know if I was coming to see him today. Wrote back and said we spent the entire day together on Sunday, so probably not. Was going to meet ‘friends’ later. Told him I would come by the shop to see him on Tuesday. Today is Ben’s day off from Rainbow Dragon, so already had plans to meet him in the evening. Will go see Paradise guy in the early afternoon, then take a nice, long nap to recharge and be ready for the evening. lol. Oh…last night was not completely uneventful. For those of you that wear an Apple watch, if it has the fall detection feature and you have it turned on…be careful that you do not drop your watch. I dropped my watch when I took it off to put it on the charging cable after we returned to the condo. The watch misread that as I had fallen. Unfortunately, the watch was asking me if I needed assistance but in Thai. I ignored the message. Since I didn’t respond, the watch contacted 191 (Thai emergency services). I didn’t know what was happening, so I hung up on the caller. 191 called back wanting to confirm if I needed assistance. I was finally able to speak to someone with English language skills and explain that I was perfectly fine. I did not fall, but simply dropped the watch on the floor. Unfortunately, due to the language barrier and my failure to respond promptly, the watch/phone proceeded to get in touch with my emergency contacts (family back in Denver). So I had to text them right away to let them know I was fine and to disregard any emergency assistance request. Rather humorous bit of drama for about 30 minutes after we arrived at the condo. Lessons learned: 1) Fall detection, as well as all Apple watch features work internationally; 2) don’t hang up on 191 caller unless you want them to show up at your door at 1am; 3) be more careful and don’t drop the watch. LOL.

I didn't have any preconceived ideas about what people might look like, but it was nice to actually be able to put a face with a name I see posting online all of the time. It was also nice to openly share experiences or escapades with others who know and understand how this all works. Not exactly something I am able to do with family or most of my friends back in Denver. lol.

continued…Installment 17: I had originally planned to see Cam on Sunday and have him spend the night. However, I had to push that to Monday evening since Paradise guy informed me he was coming over on Sunday to spend the day with me. Chaichana guy Monday afternoon, Banana guy wants to meet again…not sure when I can fit him in to my schedule (lol), Tuesday is Rainbow Dragon guy, Wednesday will definitely be Green guy, really want to connect with Ganymede guy and Senso guy again. So many men and so little time. Was definitely an adventure with Paradise guy today. After he arrived, we decided to go and check out Wang Lang Market. It’s only open during the day, and primarily food stalls. Took Bolt as he wasn’t comfortable with me riding on the motorbike that far for at least 30-45 minutes. I certainly didn’t argue with that. Picked up quite a few snack type items to munch on when we got back to the condo. Probably spent about two hours wondering around the market. Upon our return to the condo, I was about to unlock the door and he realized he must have left his phone in the Bolt. Even though I have the Bolt app on my phone, he actually placed the order/reservation on his phone, so all of the information was on the phone still in the car. He got on his motorbike and was going to try and track down the driver since it had only been a couple of minutes. While he was out on the motorbike, I explained the situation to the doorman who suggested I try calling my guys phone so the driver would at least be aware a phone was left. Believe it or not, that actually worked. I let it ring forever, and the Bolt driver finally answer the phone. The doorman explained in Thai what had happened, so he returned to the condo with the phone. I am amazed at how honest, friendly and helpful Thai people are. If that had happened in the U.S., in all likelihood the phone would have been on the black market within seconds. lol. Crisis averted. Well, I had the phone, so no way of letting Paradise guy know that as he was still out on the motorbike. Fortunately, he returned about five minutes after that so I could show him the retrieved phone. Huge sigh of relief from us both. Spent the rest of the afternoon enjoying the snacks, watching some YouTube and TikTok videos, and play time, of course. Since I never know advance what he is thinking or planning, about 7:30pm he announced he couldn’t spend the night…he needed to go home and do laundry. By 8pm he was gone. I had already shifted Cam to Monday night, so thought I would just have a quiet evening at home. Sort of been burning the candle at both ends, so to speak, and thought a break might do me some good. That didn’t last long. Around 9:30pm I got a message from another forum member who said a couple of them were getting together and going to visit the new bar, Big Boys…if I was interested in joining them. Show was to begin at 10:30pm, which gave me plenty of time to get there. Said I would join them. Stopped by Rainbow Dragon while passing through Patpong 2 on my way to Big Boys just to say hello to Ben. Ran into another forum member there and chatted briefly before heading over to Patpong to meet the other guys. In addition to the two other forum members, there was one person seated to the right of our party and two different groups of female patrons for a total of 9 customers. Four number boys were on stage when I arrived…1 twink, 1 who probably should have retired a few years ago, and 2 more muscular guys. While their new sign says ‘host’ bar, I didn’t really get that vibe. Show started around 10:35pm and was actually quite good, although rather short. Female entertainers performed well and they even had a couple of male dancers (not number boys) to assist that was obviously choreographed. One male solo dancer was very handsome, muscular, and again the dance was well rehearsed and choreographed. He was not a number boy, either. We only saw him the one time. None of the entertainers actually walked among the customers when finished soliciting tips. They simply went on stage to perform and left immediately after. One of the number boys came on as a muscle guy w/cock out and he did work the crowd. By the time the show was over I think the three of us were the only customers left. Invited the twink (from Myanmar) over for a drink, but just wasn’t feeling any connection. Bought him a drink, and provide a small tip for his time, but no off. Other two forum members decided to go to Good Boy and invited me to join them. Agreed, as I do recall seeing a couple of cuties I wouldn’t mind spending some time with. As the old saying goes…hindsight is 20/20. I should have taken the Myanmar guy home from Big Boys as it would have been a sure thing. He was eager and willing. After watching the show and narrowing down my choices to four guys at Good Boy, invited one young man who really caught my eye to join us for a drink. He is actually Thai, and as it turns out he has only worked at this club four days. Very much a novice and very ‘green’. He previously worked as a dancer with some Lion Dance Troupe in Bangkok. Not sure why the change of employment. Definitely straight, never gone with a customer before, never been with another man before…you get the general idea. Possible he has been with a female behavior. Don’t know, as I did not pursue that line of questioning. However, when it comes to the go-go club and sex with men…a complete virgin, uncomfortable doing anything with another man, and very clear that he would only sit and drink with someone. He would entertain leaving with me, but only to go to another club for a drink. To be honest, it was late, I was tired, and didn’t really feel up to the challenge of someone brand new to the business. I felt awkward about the situation at this point and felt bad about putting him in an uncomfortable position so bought him a second drink. Should have just tipped him and sent him back to the line up. He is a cutie, but not sure he will last long in this business. He said it was only his 4th day and he needed time to adjust to the situation. Either you will be ok with it, or you won’t is the way I look at it. He knew going in what the club was and the expectations of customers. Hope that does not sound harsh or cruel. Just reality. Anyway, said our goodnights and I decided to head back to the condo…alone for a change. lol. Think other forum members were headed to UNESCO Foodland. Already heard from Chaichana guy this morning confirming time, and also confirmed last night with Cam about meeting time and location…not inside Hotmale…and going to dinner.

continued…Installment 16 B: After leaving Green, I had about an hour before meeting forum members for dinner. Briefly walked around Patpong market, then walked across the street to Starbucks and had a latte while just relaxing and doing some people watching. Starbucks on Surawong near Kbank and directly across from Patpong 2 is a great place to chill out and watch people. After about 45 minutes I headed over to Soi 4. Had a great time. Enjoyed getting to meet forum members in person, sharing stories of our lives and adventures, and simply putting a face with an online name. Started out with four of us, but at some point other members joined the fun and I think we had a total of seven at one point. After dinner and conversation, several in the group headed over to Midnight Bar for a drink. Some were headed to EDT for the shower show at 11pm. I was meeting the guy from Banana Bar. He had been texting off and on since we first met about getting together again. Told him I was meeting friends for dinner at G’s, and after that I would come to the club. When I walked in it felt like I was being treated like royalty. Mamasan has a special reserved seat for me. Evidently Banana guy had informed them ahead of time that he would be going off with a customer. Had I known that, I would have just met him outside the club instead of paying for my drink, his drink and the off fee. Would have preferred to just pay the off fee. Anyway, not wanting to be totally rude since I was already inside, we stayed about 15 minutes before heading over to Midnight Bar to rejoin the other forum members. One of the other members had also met up with his ‘special friend’ from Good Boys. Stayed there until folks going to EDT needed to leave for the show, then we headed to BTS to go back to the condo for some playtime and sleep.

That was around the time I was at Magic Touch while you were at Green. One of the worst experiences I have had. I walk past Sun all the time on my way to visit Paradise. These days I am somewhat careful about going to any other shops on Soi 6. I am positive all the guys talk, share stories, and Paradise guy has spies everywhere! lol. I was walking past Green and it was far enough away that I thought it would be safe.

And I am forum member number 1...happy to report. lol.

continued…Installment 16 A: Had a quiet, leisurely morning checking messages and reading forum posts. Went downstairs to the coffee shop for a latte and pastry. Didn’t want to eat too much and planning to skip lunch altogether. Meeting several forum members for dinner at G’s. Looking forward to good company and food. Decided to head over to Silom mid-afternoon. Planned to get a massage. Recalled reading a post about an older H-type shop off Surawong called Magic Touch. Thought I would check it out. Turned out to be a big mistake. Locating the shop was a bit of a challenge. There is a narrow street between 56 Surawong and Le Meridien that appears to be a dead end leading to The Rose. When you get to The Rose, the street sort of zig zags around and continues on past a number of shops which all appear to do laundry. Approximately 75 meters from the Rose is a very short alley to the left that is very non-descriptive with four or five small shops, one of which happens to be Magic Touch. Google maps was helpful up until the alley. The shop should have better marketing from the street into the alley. Initially I walked past the alley entrance a good 25 meters where it was mostly residential, so turned around and finally was able to determine exact location. Shop is older. Ground floor contains a very small reception area. Decor is very dated, and the place was hot, smelled musty, and didn’t appear to be the cleanest establishment. Only one person was working, so no options regarding therapists. No idea how many people they may have on staff. Of course, this was around 3:30pm in the afternoon, so I wasn’t expecting many employees, but certainly more than one. He was not my type at all…older gentleman, late 30’s or possibly early 40’s, certainly not twink material, definitely on the chubby side…zero attraction whatsoever. Provided me with a glass of water, turned on A/C unit, showed me a price list. At this point I should have politely declined and just left, but I went ahead and agreed to a 60 minute oil massage. Foot massage wasn’t an option, otherwise I might have chosen that. Keep in mind there is nobody else in this shop…just the ‘therapist’ and myself. Paid THB 600 and he proceeded to take me up to the very top floor…four flights of very narrow steps that were not so bad going up, but coming down felt extremely unsafe. Thought it strange we had to go all the way up when each floor had two massage rooms. One room was larger with an ensuite shower, small sink, and urinal. No toilet. Second room was smaller and there was no ensuite, but a shower nearby off the hallway and a toilet. I was in the large room with the ensuite. Massage table was typical wood frame with thin padding, face cradle, with towel correctly placed. Often the towel will cover the face cradle in many of these shops. Therapist gave me an old towel that honestly felt like it was made of sandpaper. Shower was obviously very old, could have definitely used a bottle of Clorox, body wash was almost empty, water was lukewarm at best and just a trickle. No way to adjust pressure or temperature. Just on/off. Hesitated even getting on the massage table as I questioned in my mind just how clean the cover was. Looked very old and stained. After taking a quick shower and finally getting on the table, therapist came back into the room. Started with the sandpaper towel covering me and some dry presses. Oh, I should mention that when he came into the room, I could tell from the sound that he had removed his clothing and tossed them off to the side. Without him even touching me, it was rather obvious where this could lead. Massage skills were basically non-existent. Probably one of my worst experiences in Thailand. The entire time I was laying on the table I just wanted it to end. Just a miserable experience overall. Absolutely no chemistry whatsoever, so no desire for any ‘special services’. It couldn’t end soon enough, and I couldn’t wait to get out of there. Tip was never mentioned, so no idea if there was a mandatory amount or not, and certainly no extra services were provided. I was just so anxious to get out of there I gave him THB 500. Not only was the massage itself terrible, but I walked out feeling dirty…actually dirty…like I wanted to go all the way back to Asoke then and there to take a nice, long and hot shower at the condo. Of all my various escapades, I would never return nor would I recommend this shop. The only other shop I would not return to is Phoenix, which I visited in October. While the masseur was ok, it was difficult to find, not as convenient to Saphan Kwai BTS, and in general a sleazy environment. Walked back out to Surawong, turned right walking in front of Le Meridien to the pedestrian crossing just beyond the hotel, crossed over and was walking back toward Patpong past Avarin and Green massage shops. Been to Avarin on my last trip, so knew there was some possibility of fun there, but nobody that really struck my fancy sitting outside. Shop also appeared to be rather busy with many foot massage customers. Stopped to check out the outdoor menu at Green as there were four very cute twinks sitting outside. The experience at Magic Touch was so terrible, I was thinking I needed something of redeeming value. lol. Besides, I wasn’t meeting forum members for dinner until 8pm and it was just a little before 5pm. Plenty of time to erase the bad experience from my memory with a fresh, young twink at Green. Female barker was trying to interest me in manicure/pedicure at first, then a foot massage. This shop was busy, too, with many foot massage customers. I pointed to Aromatic massage on the menu board, but stated clearly I get to pick the therapist…not her. I choose. I had my eye on one of the four guys in particular. She agreed to let me choose, so I agreed to 90 minute aromatic massage. Paid THB 850 for 90 minutes, then therapist had me remove shoes and socks, put on slippers, and escorted me up to the second floor. Shop has many rooms, all of similar size. Just enough room for a massage table but no ensuite facilities. Communal toilet on first floor. Two communal showers on each floor. Do not recall if there was another floor above us, but rooms were numbered and last room on my floor was #18, so at least that many massage rooms available. No mention at reception desk of deluxe rooms, so not sure if these exist in this shop, but have my doubts. Therapist had me undress, put on a robe that was 5 sizes too small for this oversized farang, and escorted me to the shower. Provided me with a nice fresh (and soft) towel, then waited outside the door while I showered. Excellent water pressure and plenty of hot water, which was also adjustable. Full bottle of body wash, which I generously applied trying to feel clean after the dirty feeling I had leaving Magic Touch. Therapist escorted me back to the room and had me lay on the table. He used the towel to cover me and started with some dry presses. It was obvious from the beginning that he had received some training somewhere and had some idea about giving a proper massage. After the first 15 minutes he removed the towel and started just lightly rubbing his hands over my body. Almost felt like someone running a feather duster across me. Very sensual. He started to apply some oil beginning with my feet and worked his way up to my knees. Gradually worked his way up above the knees to my glutes. As he did so, his hands would definitely touch certain areas that, let’s just say got a rise out of me. lol. I guess I was getting a little vocal when he was playing with my ass so he knew it was something enjoyable for me, which seemed to turn him on as well. By this time he had positioned himself in a way that I could play with his very nice and growing endowment. Special service was never mentioned, nor was a tip. To be honest, I think he was as turned on and horny as I was, and before long he was naked and on top of me. All of this happened within the first 30 minutes in the massage room. Definitely provided that redeeming factor I was looking for! After doing the wild thing, he continued with the massage since there was still at least 45 minutes left. And, for those curious, yes…we exchanged Line information. However, before exchanging the info, he mentioned that he knew me. This statement somewhat surprised me, because if I had seen him before I would certainly have remembered. Turns out that prior to working at Green, he worked at Paradise. He saw me there in October when I would go to visit my Paradise guy. lol. As a result, he kind of already knew what I might be looking for when I stopped at Green! The concern now is will he report back to Paradise guy that he has seen me at Green! Could be…word does travel fast…had a text message from Paradise guy letting me know he was taking time off on Sunday to come visit me. Caught once again…him and that sixth sense. Or else he has spies everywhere. Green guy is off on Wednesdays, so definitely want to see him again. Green is a nice shop, and I would return even if no special services were offered. That will depend entirely on the therapist and what they will or won’t do, but negotiated in private. The shop will tell you they are strictly legitimate. I think the advantage I had here was because the therapist, unbeknownst to me, had seen me at Paradise and they probably talk to each other about customer likes/dislikes. And even though it was never discussed, I did tip him THB 2000 as it was definitely that good. Worth every last Baht and then some!