If You Overpay Them - You'll Ruin it For the Rest of Us....

[Guest parisrio2000]

I have not lived in Brazil for 5 years but I did live with a Brazilian in NYC for 5 years and can confirm that he was the best at taking every spare penny I made. Damn, his home life was very good. My work life was hectic but in the end, it was a good experience.

I enjoy this discussion but please, lets debate the topic and not each other.

As for IHPGUY, I have great respect for him and I also saw him work his magic. It works great. But, his command of the language is excellent and he can get away with a lot more than most of us can. He fits in and blends in. I stand out like a sore thumb just waiting to be sucked in by the right guy.

We all have different experiences and expectations and that is what makes life so fucking wonderful. I wish I had the skill that ihpguy has or the charm that Tomcal has or the ability to pick up gay boys without pay. I don't. So, I go with my gifts and that is to be the highest bidder in the race. Hey, we all have to use what we have don't we?

I didn't mean to insult and I hope you don't think I was saying there's something wrong with paying for gay guys as such. I was responding to very rude comments in which some posters were trying to vaunt about how little they're paying and that if you pay any more it must mean you're getting taken advantage of or that you're an idiot. To this, I told ihpguy in particular that I can get pretty gay boys in clubs for free so in my view his paying anything at all for them is "expensive." That said, I don't blame anyone for paying whoever it pleases them to be with, but I also don't like the constant abuse about my choosing to pay somewhat more, or the fact that I pursue a particular kind of guy there.

When it comes to whether you've seen others here work their magic, I respond that unless you were in the room with them and saw how much money changes hands, you don't actually know, you just know what they're telling you. And given how much status they (absurdly) seem to attach to paying these rentboys little, I would take whatever they claim with a grain of salt. The boys there are not that stupid and the only main reason they'd have to accept a lower price is primarily because they'd have a guarantee of return business or something like that, or if they know the client is especially rich and there might be a possibility of gifts or a developing relationship in the future. However, even that is not enough to convince some of the boys who are street-wise...they've told me that they know a lot of clients claim to be rich when they're not. So in the end they have very little incentive to give discounts of the kind claimed on this site. For long-term returning clients with who they have a good vibe they do it, or they may do it with clients who are especially young or pretty, or the rate may vary depending on the day and how business is going/mood they're in. But this idea that you have expats or tourists who are so charming and silver-tongued that they get hot rentboys to lower their rates for no reason other than they're so wonderful, you should take with a grain of salt.

In the end, I repeat what I've said from the beginning that the base rate for a turno is R80-R100 with small variations, and that the boys who are higher in demand ask for R150 (but will lower rate if they like you and you're long term client). So I don't see what the big deal is. If callipygian or others realize this, but want to reward a good performance or a boy they like with extra, that's their business, and no, the boy won't think they're an idiot, and no, they won't ruin the market for anyone.

[Guest parisrio2000]

parisrio, you are soooo missing the point here. STRAIGHT boys fuck Girls, not YOU. Now maybe the Boy is Bisexual, but he sure as hell aint str8, no way in Hell. If it makes you feel better, or shoot further to believe hes str8, so be it, but noone is guilt-tripping you. It's your money and you can spend it on whatever and whomever you want. And you continue this debate, when you believe you are RIGHT is futile. Different people have different experiences, and you must acknowledge that its not always the way YOU see it. ihp seems to know his shit, and be a good source of information, as do you, and although your viewpoints are different, there is room for Both of them. AMEN.

This is a long and somewhat academic discussion Suckrates. I've been in gay clubs all over the world on many continents and I can tell you that I've never, and I mean never, seen a boy who looks and acts like the boys I've hired from 117. I don't mean I saw one and was turned down, I mean that I've never seen one in clubs (or online). If I had, I'd be very happy. I'm a sexual but not a financial masochist and being poor, I don't enjoy the fact that 117 is the only place where I can reliably find what I like. You find me a gay guy who acts and looks like the ones I hire and I'll pay for 5 sessions with your choice of boy at 117, deal?

The truth is that gay and straight are somewhat historically flexible categories, as the fact that English schoolboys were almost all bisexual shows (which is why the Turing movie is so silly). I don't really care about whether they fuck only girls outside the sauna, I use that as a proxy for something else. Again, this becomes somewhat of an academic discussion about "definitions," and it won't convince anyone.

I've also hired a personal trainer in Rio who I met when I was checking out a gym in Catete. Do I know for a fact that he only fucks girls outside? No, I couldn't vet him in the circumstances in which we met. And I don't care...his looks and behavior matched what I'm looking for. I'd bet that he fucks mostly girls though, just from experience. I'd also bet that he's probably experimented and let guys suck him off in the past, as quite a few straight guys have. But achieving that without money takes time and patience and I didn't have that. Offering money is faster.

[axiom2001]

The boys that I go with come to understand that I do tip with good service. If that service is not there, they do not get a tip. But, if they go above and beyond, so do I.

The going rate is fine to pay in any place. A tip is fine in any place is you so desire. That is your call and don't let anyone tell you different. If it is NYC and a 100 tip or Thailand and a 10 USD tip, a tip is appreciated.

Again, I disagree. They all tell me that the idiots buy them food and drinks and the intelligent clients tip them. LOL JK

I don't think you are an idiot for tipping. I also disagree that the boys find you an idiot. I have had my fair share of long term boys in Thailand and Brazil and USA and I negotiate everything in advance and that is what I pay. I also treat them to a great week or two or three. I take them shopping and I buy them nice things. Perhaps you are right in them thinking I'm an idiot. I'm thinking all the time, how lucky I am to have such a beautiful boy for such a great rate. Winning!

I'm similar to one or two of the others posters here and had to chime in. If the current fee is between R$80 to R$100, then give it; and I am with Oz, if the company has been over and beyond expectations, then tip. But it is indeed the supreme choice of the client.

Here in the US, I've rarely tipped escorts; their fees, to me, are exorbitant to begin with. Currently the going rate in San Francisco and New York and Los Angeles is $300 to $350. Hell no, I've rarely and have reluctantly hired guys at this rate and have stuck with one or two pleasers who are still asking for $150-$190 which is still much in terms of hourly fees for "work!"

So I'll end by saying: remember escorts [sauna boys] are human beings, they expect a certain fee which has been agreed to or already established as in the States and in Europe and other countries: treat respectfully and tip, if you choose to. That's it! It reveals that one is not less or more in doing the preceding activities!

And if ihpguy's assessment is right as to how some sauna guys view tipping, so be it! At restaurants one tips if the service is above and beyond; would the same apply here in Brasilian saunas? The guys could use the tip.

I do like your take in giving your guy a very nice meal or treating him to something that he normally would not obtain otherwise.

[Guest parisrio2000]

I'm similar to one or two of the others posters here and had to chime in. If the current fee is between R$80 to R$100, then give it; and I am with Oz, if the company has been over and beyond expectations, then tip. But it is indeed the supreme choice of the client.

Here in the US, I've rarely tipped escorts; their fees, to me, are exorbitant to begin with. Currently the going rate in San Francisco and New York and Los Angeles is $300 to $350. Hell no, I've rarely and have reluctantly hired guys at this rate and have stuck with one or two pleasers who are still asking for $150-$190 which is still much in terms of hourly fees for "work!"

So I'll end by saying: remember escorts [sauna boys] are human beings, they expect a certain fee which has been agreed to or already established as in the States and in Europe and other countries: treat respectfully and tip, if you choose to. That's it! It reveals that one is not less or more in doing the preceding activities!

And if ihpguy's assessment is right as to how some sauna guys view tipping, so be it! At restaurants one tips if the service is above and beyond; would the same apply here in Brasilian saunas? The guys could use the tip.

I do like your take in giving your guy a very nice meal or treating him to something that he normally would not obtain otherwise.

Yes I agree. $300 is way too much, I wouldn't pay this, especially given what's available in the US btw. Normal boys and girls sometimes escort "on the side" in Brazil but in the US it's usually fucked up people who become escorts. Where do you find them? I'd pay that much if I could find what I like but it seems like in the US all the white escorts are gay (with lisp or close to) and the "rough trade" or "bisexual" escorts are black, which I'm not into. It's also difficult to agree to hire a guy for $300 when all you see is some pics, as real life can be so different. Have you found a way to meet them in person and check them out before you pay?

[Guest parisrio2000]

This is to cancel out Suckrates' pic from previous page

[Suckrates]

Yes I agree. $300 is way too much, I wouldn't pay this, especially given what's available in the US btw. Normal boys and girls sometimes escort "on the side" in Brazil but in the US it's usually fucked up people who become escorts. Where do you find them? I'd pay that much if I could find what I like but it seems like in the US all the white escorts are gay (with lisp or close to) and the "rough trade" or "bisexual" escorts are black, which I'm not into. It's also difficult to agree to hire a guy for $300 when all you see is some pics, as real life can be so different. Have you found a way to meet them in person and check them out before you pay?

WOW, this post is riddled with cliche' generalizations and misconceptions.... parisrio, you are losing credibility with me here. I really hope you are pulling our leg with your commentary here, and dont actually Believe the things you are saying. Or, dont you equate the str8 boys you purport to hire with the "fucked up" escorts others here hire ?

This is to cancel out Suckrates' pic from previous page

Oh YES.....he exudes STRAIGHTNESS !

[Guest parisrio2000]

[AdamSmith]

Should I make tea and brownies for everyone?

[lookin]

I did my best to stay away from this but there is an important aspect that hás not been covered yet:YOU!

Are you too fat? You gonna be charged more.

Are you too old? You are gonna be charged more.

Are you unreasonable sloppy, repugnant ? You are gonna be charged more.

Are you unreasonable ugly? You gonna be charged more.

What about The color of your skin? It my be an issue for certain boys, and you gonna be charged accordingly.

Of course the boys in low demand will overlook all that, The boys in average demand are the ones who will hike The prices and the boys in very high demand will tell you they already havê a customer.

I was also going to stay away from it, since I've never been to Rio. But, hell, I know a thing or two about butting in with not much to add, so here goes: I think another important part of YOU is your self image and how you'd like others to perceive you.

F'rinstance, I think of myself as fairly generous, but not a 'mark', and hope others see me that way too. Sadly, I haven't been to Rio, but I was in Prague with a friend several years ago when we decided to take a cab to a main square. I was sliding into the back seat and asked the driver how much it would be. When he said forty dollars, I kept sliding and got out the other side. My friend asked me what was up and I told him the guy was trying to gouge us. I'd been checking prices in Prague and knew how far we wanted to go, and I figured it should cost around eight dollars. As we were walking toward another cab, the first cab driver ran after us and said ten dollars. So back to his cab we went, as it should have been from the beginning.

I didn't begrudge him an extra couple dollars, as I would have tipped him that much anyway. But I sure wasn't about to pay him an extra thirty bucks to watch him snicker at me in the rearview mirror. All I was looking for was to be treated respectfully as another human being, and I was prepared to return the favor with interest. That's where I've got to in life and, unless I get compelling evidence to the contrary, that's where I'm planning to stay.

I think most of us feel that way about our individual self-images. We've worked hard to get them and we're not going to change without a reason. And it's also true that no two of us have exactly the same self-image. Well, except perhaps for the Brewer Twins.

Or the Carlson Twins.

Or maybe even the Karshner triplets.

But I digress.

What I meant to say is I think the reason these kinds of threads go off the rails so often is that some folks tend to think that their way of thinking is the only way of thinking and that others are crazy not to think that way too. But it doesn't usually happen like that and the only way around it is understanding that others have spent just as much time building who they are as I have building who I am, and they've got just as much invested as I do. While it's certainly possible for everyone to shift gradually over time, with new evidence, it's not going to happen in the space of a single thread.

I hope one day I'll get the chance to hook up with a guy or two in a Brazilain sauna. Knowing how I operate, I'd go in there knowing as much as I can about the going rate, including any upcharges for being tired or tacky and that's what I'd offer. If I liked him and he asked for a little more, I'd ask him for a little more too. Perhaps his hand on my ass on the way to the room.

But if he asked for a lot more, say double, I'd let him know his search for a pasty patsy would need to continue elsewhere.

Now none of this is to say that there aren't guys in the sauna who don't charge double and always get it. But I'd get somebody else's word too before I paid it.

Callipygian, thanks for an interesting question. Some good insights, and it's given everyone a nice chance to air his or her views.

[ihpguy]

The reason this thread has gone off the rails is that PR2K is crazier than a fruitcake.

[lookin]

The reason this thread has gone off the rails is that PR2K is crazier than a fruitcake.

Ah, the old Occam's razor wheeze!

[MsAnn]

I was also going to stay away from it, since I've never been to Rio. But, hell, I know a thing or two about butting in with not much to add, so here goes: I think another important part of YOU is your self image and how you'd like others to perceive you.

F'rinstance, I think of myself as fairly generous, but not a 'mark', and hope others see me that way too. Sadly, I haven't been to Rio, but I was in Prague with a friend several years ago when we decided to take a cab to a main square. I was sliding into the back seat and asked the driver how much it would be. When he said forty dollars, I kept sliding and got out the other side. My friend asked me what was up and I told him the guy was trying to gouge us. I'd been checking prices in Prague and knew how far we wanted to go, and I figured it should cost around eight dollars. As we were walking toward another cab, the first cab driver ran after us and said ten dollars. So back to his cab we went, as it should have been from the beginning.

I didn't begrudge him an extra couple dollars, as I would have tipped him that much anyway. But I sure wasn't about to pay him an extra thirty bucks to watch him snicker at me in the rearview mirror. All I was looking for was to be treated respectfully as another human being, and I was prepared to return the favor with interest. That's where I've got to in life and, unless I get compelling evidence to the contrary, that's where I'm planning to stay.

I think most of us feel that way about our individual self-images. We've worked hard to get them and we're not going to change without a reason. And it's also true that no two of us have exactly the same self-image. Well, except perhaps for the Brewer Twins.

Or the Carlson Twins.

Or maybe even the Karshner triplets.

But I digress.

What I meant to say is I think the reason these kinds of threads go off the rails so often is that some folks tend to think that their way of thinking is the only way of thinking and that others are crazy not to think that way too. But it doesn't usually happen like that and the only way around it is understanding that others have spent just as much time building who they are as I have building who I am, and they've got just as much invested as I do. While it's certainly possible for everyone to shift gradually over time, with new evidence, it's not going to happen in the space of a single thread.

I hope one day I'll get the chance to hook up with a guy or two in a Brazilain sauna. Knowing how I operate, I'd go in there knowing as much as I can about the going rate, including any upcharges for being tired or tacky and that's what I'd offer. If I liked him and he asked for a little more, I'd ask him for a little more too. Perhaps his hand on my ass on the way to the room.

But if he asked for a lot more, say double, I'd let him know his search for a pasty patsy would need to continue elsewhere.

Now none of this is to say that there aren't guys in the sauna who don't charge double and always get it. But I'd get somebody else's word too before I paid it.

Callipygian, thanks for an interesting question. Some good insights, and it's given everyone a nice chance to air his or her views.

Very well said Mr. Lookin. MsAnn is gonna make you a batch of her famous brownies.

[Suckrates]

Very well said Mr. Lookin. MsAnn is gonna make you a batch of her famous brownies.

Now, if Adam had a hand in helping you bake those brownies, I'd be a bit wary of the "fudge" content !

[Suckrates]

I was also going to stay away from it, since I've never been to Rio. But, hell, I know a thing or two about butting in with not much to add, so here goes: I think another important part of YOU is your self image and how you'd like others to perceive you.

F'rinstance, I think of myself as fairly generous, but not a 'mark', and hope others see me that way too. Sadly, I haven't been to Rio, but I was in Prague with a friend several years ago when we decided to take a cab to a main square. I was sliding into the back seat and asked the driver how much it would be. When he said forty dollars, I kept sliding and got out the other side. My friend asked me what was up and I told him the guy was trying to gouge us. I'd been checking prices in Prague and knew how far we wanted to go, and I figured it should cost around eight dollars. As we were walking toward another cab, the first cab driver ran after us and said ten dollars. So back to his cab we went, as it should have been from the beginning.

I didn't begrudge him an extra couple dollars, as I would have tipped him that much anyway. But I sure wasn't about to pay him an extra thirty bucks to watch him snicker at me in the rearview mirror. All I was looking for was to be treated respectfully as another human being, and I was prepared to return the favor with interest. That's where I've got to in life and, unless I get compelling evidence to the contrary, that's where I'm planning to stay.

I think most of us feel that way about our individual self-images. We've worked hard to get them and we're not going to change without a reason. And it's also true that no two of us have exactly the same self-image. Well, except perhaps for the Brewer Twins.

Or the Carlson Twins.

Or maybe even the Karshner triplets.

But I digress.

What I meant to say is I think the reason these kinds of threads go off the rails so often is that some folks tend to think that their way of thinking is the only way of thinking and that others are crazy not to think that way too. But it doesn't usually happen like that and the only way around it is understanding that others have spent just as much time building who they are as I have building who I am, and they've got just as much invested as I do. While it's certainly possible for everyone to shift gradually over time, with new evidence, it's not going to happen in the space of a single thread.

I hope one day I'll get the chance to hook up with a guy or two in a Brazilain sauna. Knowing how I operate, I'd go in there knowing as much as I can about the going rate, including any upcharges for being tired or tacky and that's what I'd offer. If I liked him and he asked for a little more, I'd ask him for a little more too. Perhaps his hand on my ass on the way to the room.

But if he asked for a lot more, say double, I'd let him know his search for a pasty patsy would need to continue elsewhere.

Now none of this is to say that there aren't guys in the sauna who don't charge double and always get it. But I'd get somebody else's word too before I paid it.

Callipygian, thanks for an interesting question. Some good insights, and it's given everyone a nice chance to air his or her views.

lookin, I always look forward to your posts, and am always entertained, even when they border more on soliloquy. Your cool, laid back approach to things is always inspiring, although I could never be cool or laid back.... But that's what makes a world, different kinds of people, with different opinions and approaches to life. I have always believed that something is worth only what someone is willing to pay for it. If a person wants to overpay, I dont begrudge them for that. but I do believe its smart to be educated and know the ropes. Then what you decide to do with your knowledge is totally your OWN business.... We have all seen thread get out of hand because each participant in an argument wants HIS opinion to be the ACCEPTED one, and while we ALL can say we want to be right, we should at least consider there are other opinions, and be open to the fact that they may be right TOO !

BTW ihp, even "fruitcake" has it's place..... although I usually re- gift them when I receive them at the Holidays.....

[axiom2001]

Normal boys and girls sometimes escort "on the side" in Brazil but in the US it's usually fucked up people who become escorts. Where do you find them? I'd pay that much if I could find what I like but it seems like in the US all the white escorts are gay (with lisp or close to) and the "rough trade" or "bisexual" escorts are black, which I'm not into. It's also difficult to agree to hire a guy for $300 when all you see is some pics, as real life can be so different. Have you found a way to meet them in person and check them out before you pay?

The preceding quoted comments are blatantly stereotypical ones! How much experience have you had in engaging the services of escorts? Your take is "DEAD WRONG!" That's all that I will write about what I quoted from you, for I find your assessment to be quite alarming and completely incorrect!

As one who has hired throughout this country and in some parts of the world, I, for one, just cannot relate to what you wrote! I'm out of here. ...will read other threads as well as post but NOT on this particular one!

[MsGuy]

And it's also true that no two of us have exactly the same self-image. Well, except perhaps for the Brewer Twins.

Lookin, even the Brewer twins have their disagreements on occasion.