Guest fountainhall Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Follow my instructions above and you will get the cheap price. Many thanks - that's extremely useful. But I suggest it's really rather stupid of TG not to have those prices listed in the main booking section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jtrack33 Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I fully agree with what you said about Thai not making it easy. Late last month (before I had seen the full-page advert in the Bangkok Post for these rates) I checked the price as you did for Chiang Mai and as it was over Bht5,000, I decided to rent a car in Bangkok and drive as daily rental plus fuel for a round trip of 1,400 klms is a little less that the airfare. But when I was already in Chiang Mai, sitting around the Lavender Lanna swimming pool with one of their go-go and massage boys on either side of me, I saw the advert and tried it on their free access pc....but of course it was too late. However have a vehicle there, I was able to bring back some cheap lights from the furniture village some 16 kms south of town at Ban Twai. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lester1 Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I have come to this thread a bit late but here is my two pennies worth. The Flying Farang phrase I have no problem with. We know what it means and it can often highlight the problems that farangs face when they are left high and dry in a place like pattaya. I think what upsets is not so much GB's lack of sensitivity in writing about the latest one, but the almost child like glee he displayed in his introduction. I hope he was motivated by the chance to get a story up and running after a pretty quiet month because any other reason I would find hard to contemplate. The links to local press i can understand, but the phrase he used, something like 'here are some pictures' further indicates an unusual lack of tact and possibly his own interests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fountainhall Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Let's change direction a little to recall that there is a whole host of people with far worse problems than the man at the centre of this discussion - the farang who could not face losing his leg. I hope many of us read this article in the press yesterday and were both heartened and inspired by it, despite its tragic inevitability. From AFPTAIPEI — The eulogies, the songs, the crying and the hugging all make David Tseng's funeral virtually indistinguishable from any other such rite on Taiwan -- except he is still alive. Tseng is only 25 but he is wheelchair-bound and in the terminal stage of a genetic muscular disease that has paralysed him since childhood, with no known cure. "I don't know how many days I have left so I want to hold a 'living funeral' for myself, to announce my last wish of donating my body for medical studies," Tseng said. "I may not live a long life but I have the company of my family and many people who care for me. I finished college and wrote a book... I didn't live in vain," Tseng told the audience as his mother wiped away her tears. "I think what matters in life is its value, not how long it is, so we should cherish the time we have and do something good," he said. I salute David Tseng. I believe he deserves my sympathy - and my gratitude - far more than someone who cannot handle the thought of life after a leg amputation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lvdkeyes Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 The problem arises when someone becomes so despondent and has no one to talk to about the problem. It is a sad situation and some empathy is deserved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest taylorsquare Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 I recall I heard about a 24 hour crisis call phone number in Pattaya for farangs? Has anyone heard of this,a phone number you can call if you are thinking of suicide or harming yourself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alaan Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 If there is such a telephone number i sincerely hope it does not bear any resemblance to the number of Gaybutton, Fountainhall or some others here............ any desperate farangs considering whether to jump or not and needing some fair advice and help if unfortunate enough to miss-dial and get Gaybutton at the other end will have his plea for understanding answered with.... "compassion from me?" "good luck with that one" and when you do jump make sure "you dont land on some poor guy passing below" and possibly "i'm sorry for your situation..but i dont really care" or maybe he could just pass the phone to Fountainhall who will advise the said unfortunate to thoughtfully consider ....that "lets face it" there are other "less messy" and more convenient ways "to suffle off this mortal coil" than jumping..be a bit more considerate! And then join Taylorsquare for a "good old laugh about it.....because thats what life's about" because "if you dont have a sense of humour life becomes too serious"......i really cant understand why the 68 year old guy didn't see the funny side of his desperate situation before he plummeted to the ground. This post maybe deliberately flippant....but it puts into perspective the 'hardline' views of those who have replied to this thread whose compassionate view of life has somewhat deserted them in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Perhaps a little too flippant, alaan. My readings of the posts here do not detect anybody expressing glee over some pour soul's choice to jump off a building to end it all. I myself have some mixed feelings over these situations. I'm not in a position to save everybody and I'm not even going to try (harsh as that sounds, it's reality in my view). And I certainly prioritize my compassion - and the friends and family the flying falang (or the drunk driver) leaves behind are going to get it long before he does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zzrichard Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 As I have known GB for many years, I feel if anyone has a legitimate problem here in Thailand he would be very helpful if you pm'd him. He may come off on the forum as a "non caring hardass", but in reality he is a warm person who has helped more than one person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Soi10Tom Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Perhaps a little too flippant, alaan. My readings of the posts here do not detect anybody expressing glee over some pour soul's choice to jump off a building to end it all. I myself have some mixed feelings over these situations. I'm not in a position to save everybody and I'm not even going to try (harsh as that sounds, it's reality in my view). And I certainly prioritize my compassion - and the friends and family the flying falang (or the drunk driver) leaves behind are going to get it long before he does. I don't think the concern is over "anybody expressing glee", or the use of the term "Flying Farang"...gallows' humor if often used with no lack of compassion. I see the concern being over the tone of entire post and certain word choices. As all of us know, reading what is between the lines is often much more important than reading the actual word. By simply changing a word's location in a sentence the entire tone and tenor of any statement can be completely changed. I think that if one goes back and rereads certain post on this thread there is an unmistakable tone of meanness of spirit in several of post. Several other post reek with a sense of superiority...as if to say (reading between the lines) "I am so much better that those losers that jump that I have no concern. They are beneath me." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alaan Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 A little too flippant.....maybe so Bob.....but the inverted commas were all things quoted by others..... and at no time did i accuse anyone of showing glee....lack of compassion for the situation the guy found himself in was all i opined. The closest to 'glee' might have been taylorsquare saying he found it funny as in "i actually had a good laugh about it" but that came from him directly. i dont think it is harsh to admit you cannot save everyone.....no one is expecting you to do something that is impossible and totally unrealistic...all my point was that in this particular case the unfortunate guy should have been afforded compassion rather than to have his long life of 68 years and the horrendous delema he found himself in at the end of it.....nutshelled in a crass headline of 'another flying farang'. That is all. And in my opinion i dont think you can grade or prioritise compassion according to how more or less tragic a situation is...as Fountainhall brought up in a later post that he had found a more tragic case than the guy in question here which deserved compassion or more compassion than the original case....well i could dredge up an EVEN more tragic case where an EVEN younger person with an EVEN more unfortunate set of circumstances than the one Fountainhall posted about....but that is not the point is it? The point is you either have compassion and empathy for the guy in this case or you dont...end of.. Just as i do not have any compassion for a drunk driver who dies in his car wreck...but i dont link the poor guys situation in the 'flying farang' headline and a drunk driver in the same context....if you do..well thats up to you. And zz richard i dont think if you look through the thread that there are any accussations of Gaybutton being unhelpful to anybody...i know that he is very helpful to many.....that was not the issue in any of the posts...and i dont really see why you feel you have to defend him with regards to being helpful........ But on saying that......i take it your assertion of gaybutton helping 'ANYONE with a legitimate problem' would exclude those with a 'problem' that happens to include the possibility of committing suicide by way of jumping from a tall building.....i think even he will admit to making himself fairly clear on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lvdkeyes Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 The thing is no one can determine the extent of the suffering another person is experiencing. One can't possibly know how another feels about a situation, so we must acknowledge their feelings and accept that is how they feel. How many times have we heard or said to someone who expresses hurt because of another's comments, "Don't feel that way." ? We can't tell someone else how to feel. People feel as they do and their feelings are their feelings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fountainhall Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 And in my opinion i dont think you can grade or prioritise compassion according to how more or less tragic a situation is...as Fountainhall brought up in a later post that he had found a more tragic case than the guy in question here which deserved compassion or more compassion than the original case....well i could dredge up an EVEN more tragic case where an EVEN younger person with an EVEN more unfortunate set of circumstances than the one Fountainhall posted about....but that is not the point is it? The point is you either have compassion and empathy for the guy in this case or you dont...end of.. Giving out my phone number would, as you suggest, do little to help anyone on the brink of jumping from a building. Not, though, because I have no sympathy. In my professional life, I have to deal a lot with people, often temperamental and difficult people who are looking for perfection, who are there to do a job but feel that certain niggling, often stupid things are preventing them from getting close to achieving that goal. In many ways, I have to be an ego massager. But I cannot do that on the phone. If there's a sign of trouble, I'm at the scene to sit down with the one with the problems, talk them through it, solve problems and try and get them to concentrate on the job in hand. That's just background. It's certainly not compassion. It's my job. Sadly I don't think I could persuade anyone against a serious course of action over a telephone. I certainly hope there is a Samaritans hotline in Thailand because I have a huge admiration for the people who sit at the end of these phones and do everything they can to prevent people from taking their lives. They receive quite a bit of training and I believe they often succeed. Bravo to them! Still on the question of compassion, I'm not sure I agree with you, alaan. I think most of us can and do grade compassion. Naturally I do not know that young Taiwanese (only in his 20's) but I feel enormous compassion for him as he faces death - even though I am sure he'd prefer people to save that compassion for others. He spoke positively about his life, his achievements and his impending death. Perhaps because of that, I think of him in more compassionate terms than I do of an elderly person who has lived a long life but, say, has had a stroke and is forced to live out the remaining few years of his/her life unable to talk and perhaps partially paralysed. On this I speak from experience. My own mother spent the last 3 years of her life in such a state. That deepened my love for her and I felt extraordinary compassion. However, in the same year, a young, lively, bright 28 year-old friend of mine went into a coma following a stroke and died 10 days later. I felt even more compassion for him and his family - perhaps because that was a life cut short whereas my mother was in her 80's and had enjoyed what we rather flippantly term "a good life" - a long and full life would be more accurate. I do believe that compassion is not simply one specific state of feeling. And whilst I am sorry others may feel me heartless, I still have little compassion for that elderly man who jumped because, allegedly, he could not face life after losing a leg. Just as i do not have any compassion for a drunk driver who dies in his car wreck...but i dont link the poor guys situation in the 'flying farang' headline and a drunk driver in the same context....if you do..well thats up to you. Why not, I wonder? I basically agree with you. But what if that driver was also in his late 60s, had learned he was to be losing his leg, had been unable to cope with the knowledge, had a drink or two with friends to drown his sorrows, felt better as a result, and then wrecked his car on the way to the hospital to undergo the operation? These are clearly rhetorical questions. They do, though, illustrate my belief that few things in life are pure black or pure white - and that includes compassion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Lvdkeyes inserted the word "empathy" into the discourse here and I certainly can empathize with a guy who is about to lose a leg because of disease or injury. Even some sympathy or compassion. I have a much harder time feeling any empathy, compassion, or sympathy regarding the decision to leap from a building to solve the problem. There are suicides that are simply the result of mental illness and I can understand compassion in those cases. But there are suicides that are rational (albiet not always too smart) choices and those acts are more difficult for me to get too personally worked up about. But, even in those latter cases, at least in my view, the family and friends the guy leaves behind deserve the lion's share of any sympathy or compassion. Just a personal opinion (and I did it without blasting anybody else or their views). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lvdkeyes Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Depression is a form or mental illness. It often impedes the ability to think rationally. Certainly those left behind deserve empathy or compassion, but also the person who is so depressed he/she can't think rationally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Geezer Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I found this site interesting. It concerns a falang building a life in a Thai village, and choosing the time of one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PattayaMale Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I found this site interesting. It concerns a falang building a life in a Thai village, and choosing the time of one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fountainhall Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 It concerns a falang building a life in a Thai village, and choosing the time of one’s own death I also agree the site is interesting, although I am not sure the two subjects are actually related. I agree that assisted suicide should be possible, as it presently is in, for example, a clinic in Switzerland. The renowned English conductor, Sir Edward Downes, chose to commit suicide there with his wife only a few months ago. Their children were with them and it was a peaceful and dignified death for two people who were, in one case, terminally ill and in the other, severely incapacitated. However, the subtitle of the euthanasia page - A Person Should be Able to Choose the Time, Place, and Manner of Their Own Death - does open up another discussion. Is that right to be given to everyone irrespective of age and/or physical or mental condition, and how is it determined that a person be admitted to such a clinic? Is it to be restricted to those who are suffering the infirmities of 'old' age/are terminally ill? If so, I somehow doubt the German man who is the main subject of this thread would have qualified. Is it to permit anyone who feels suicidal to do away with themselves? In that case, a goodly portion of the country's lovesick teenagers would probably wish to enrol - and that's before we discuss farangs whose wives have absconded with their wordly goods or whose businesses have gone down the tubes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lvdkeyes Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I agree in cases of terminal illness and suffering that a person should be allowed to end their life, but not just because they feel they want to die because of loneliness, financial hardship ,etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I agree in cases of terminal illness and suffering that a person should be allowed to end their life, but not just because they feel they want to die because of loneliness, financial hardship ,etc. I rather like the state of Oregon's assisted suicide law. In part, if two psychiatrists/psychologists certify that you are basically competent, you can choose to end it for whatever reason you want. Sounds fine with me although, as I understand it, very few have utilized the right to do it. For competent adults, I don't see where I have the right to substitute my judgment as to what is a sufficient reason to choose not to live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tdperhs Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 For competent adults, I don't see where I have the right to substitute my judgment as to what is a sufficient reason to choose not to live. Egg-zack-lee! Especially since no one knows the emotional priorities of the victim. Could anyone deny the validity of the rationale that drove Fatso Goering and Hitler to suicide? Or what of the Kamikaze pilots who truly believed in reincarnation at a higher social level or the suicide bombers of 911? What is the difference between a man choosing to end his own life of despair and a uniformed soldier volunteering for a suicide mission. The motivation may be different but one is no less dead than the other. Adolescents and children are an exception because their brains have not fully developed. That may be a contributing factor in analyzing the disproportionately high suicide rate among adolescents. Psychiatrists are little if any help in this matter. I view the practitioners of modern psychology as more fraudian that Freudian. They get the patient to talk and take it down as gospel then draw conclusions without checking out a single word. Yet study after study has shown that psychology patients lie their asses off to their psychologist. I do not believe it is any accident of lexicography that the words therapist and the rapist contain exactly the same letters in the exact same order. The bastards rape your mind as well as your wallet. Their only contribution is persuading you that your problem is cured, very much like a faith healer. In any case, for one person or a group of persons to tell a rational individual that he may not destroy his own body is an act of arrogance that can only occur when it has been sold to the unthinking masses. Fortunately, anyone who succeeds in violating laws against suicide escapes punishment for violating those laws. I'll bet that pisses a lot of people off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Psychiatrists are little if any help in this matter. I view the practitioners of modern psychology as more fraudian that Freudian. Not enough space to go into this issue. While I agree with you that Freud - no matter how well intentioned - was scientifically a fraud and screwed up any science of psychology for a very long time, I do believe your remaining assessments are a bit harsh and overdone. There are some exceptional social workers, shrinks, and psychologists out there that do tremendous good for a lot of people. And the notion that these people just take for gospel anything that a person says is actually untrue in most cases (yea, sure, there are some quacks out there just like in any profession). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fountainhall Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 I view the practitioners of modern psychology as more fraudian that Freudian . . . I do not believe it is any accident of lexicography that the words therapist and the rapist contain exactly the same letters in the exact same order Haha! Love it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaybutton Posted November 10, 2009 Author Share Posted November 10, 2009 If there is such a telephone number i sincerely hope it does not bear any resemblance to the number of Gaybutton That's right. After all, I was fired from a suicide hotline. I kept trying to talk people into it . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Geezer Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 That's right. After all, I was fired from a suicide hotline. I kept trying to talk people into it . . . He would also put callers on "Hold". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
