PeterRS

I cannot remember when i first got hooked on the writing of John Le Carre. Probably it was with his third novel The Spy Who Came in from the Cold. Le Carre described in such extraordinary detail the real world of spies compared to that of the glamorous vodka martini swilling seducer James Bond. I think I have read all his books since then, although one of his last A legacy of Spies remains to be opened on my Kindle. Other spy and thriller writers have published occasional best sellers that have fascinated me. Le Carre was always different. His elegant prose, the way he slowly drew you into each novel with swiftly switching locations and gradually fieshed out characters made them consistently grip me in a way no other writer in that genre has. John Le Carre was the pseudonym for David Cornwell. A very private man, he refused many honours offered by the British government, including a knighthood. Le Carre has died at the age of 89.

Lest we forget, Thai rice exports suffered massively thanks to Thaksin sisters rice pledging scheme that set the price of rice bought by the government far too high. After decades, that allowed India, Vietnam and others to increase their shares of the international market and dethrone Thailand from the No. 1 spot. An official Inquiry found it also lost the Thai government billions of $$.

Thaksins Social Order Campaigns certainly started the downward trend. The zoning of entertainment districts and the earlier closing times brought criticism even from the General Manager of the famed Mandarin Oriental Hotel who tried to remind the government that tourists were not interested in visiting a city that closed soon after midnight. While this forum focuses more on gogo bars, most did survive the Campaigns, but many of the major dance clubs collapsed. The massive Ministry of Sound, Tantra, Mystique, 87 and the Bed Supper Club are just some of many that died. Investors have no interest in putting up cash for clubs that have to close early. Even in staid old Singapore, the 30 year old Zouk Bar remains one of Asia's great clubs and is open till 4:00 am at weekends. But it was not just the elites that were pleased with the Social Order Campaigns (although their children were not). Several countrywide polls showed that they were popular throughout the nation. For a time the arch religious bigot Interior Minister Purachai was even more popular than Thaksin. Given that, it is hard for expats and tourists to complain and have any effect.

I would just keep breathing. For years the Thai elite has been determined that the country get rid of its sex tourist image. Slowly but surely that has been happening and the pandemic has been the icing on their cake. I see nothing that will change it. The saunas and the massage spas will likely continue, as will the Thai only venues that are dotted around the country where farang can never enter. I cannot see the gogo bars continuing in the medium term.

Back to the main topic. I noticed two days ago that votes are still being counted in the US election. Still being counted? Yup! STILL. For an election that took place nearly 5 weeks ago, I find that absolutely unbelievable. It not only illustrates a desperately out of date electoral system, it actually aids the lying shenanigans of Trump and his miserable bunch of cohorts. Is is surprising that many in the USA don't believe that the counted votes are accurate? That Biden's lead over Trump is now more than 7 million votes is not the issue. https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/04/politics/biden-popular-vote-margin-7-million/index.html

Nor should you. Trump is hardly the first idiot to reach high office. The world has a great deal for which to be thankful to America. But like all countries - all - it has had its less good moments and its faults. I on the other hand will rail against Boris Johnson to any who might listen (seemingly not many!). Its hard to find words for his utter failure with the pandemic and the deaths of so many. Just saying other countries are as bad doesn't cut it with me. A dear friend of some decades died of covid 19 last week. I will never forgive Johnson for that. But in my earlier posts referring to freedoms, I was not specifically referring to politics. I know it is not readers view and I respect his. But I absolutely believe that unfettered freedom of speech is no longer an option in these days and times. I go back to my earlier point that almost the entire world now lives in groups and societies. These only work within a framework of rules. Break the rules and there are penalties. Society cannot work without that. If we are in a pub and I call someone a pathetic moron, I would expect either his drink to be thrown at me or a punch in the face. Freedoms have consequences. Yet if I do that on the internet and social media, I get away with it scot free. Those contributing to this forum are mostly from an older pre-internet age. Youngsters nowadays build their lives around social media. They can mostly say exactly what they like without consequence. If their correspondent calls them out, they can just block him. Social interaction between people has changed a great deal and there will no doubt be further changes. If anyone wants unrestricted freedoms, their only option to my mind is to isolate them in the depths of a thick forest where they are totally on their own. But I absolutely take on board that finding a workable and acceptable middle ground between near total freedom of speech and the curtailed freedoms of an increasing number of countries is close to impossible. I do think though we have to try. I could never give up my freedom to think what i wish. Even so I am happy in quite a number of cases and events to self-censor myself. But I know that there is an increasing number for which this form of self-censorship is just that - censorship and to them that is unacceptable.

Does anyone know if Vietnam has anything like a retirement visa? My partner and I visited central Vietnam early last year just before both countries closed down. We loved it. Even though settled in Bangkok we could see retirement in that part of Vietnam as desirable. We saw lots of recently built condo blocks close to those wonderful beaches and really enjoyed some of the small towns. No idea if there is any gay life but that's not what we were looking for. No doubt the apps will be active around the larger towns like Danang.

I wish I had one. I don't. But I truly believe someone has to come up with some alternative that more or less works. I always find it strange that Americans, and no doubt those in other countries as well, speak so glowingly about their Constitution and how wise the framers were. Then there was the Bill of Rights which included the first 10 amendments passed around 1791 with Madison writing the wording of the first amendment. But no one has ever persuaded me that anything other than a few very basic laws - e.g. murder - can be as true centuries after they were written. Madison had not the faintest inclination that 230 years after he penned that amendment there would be the internet and social media. Nor that these inventions would completely revolutionise our way of life. Times change. Society changes. The world changes. Yet some people hang on to beliefs that may have been appropriate centuries ago which frankly have been overtaken by progress and are no longer appropriate - in the same form.

That is precisely what I was implying. Freedom comes with responsibility and that also goes for the freedom of speech. I was not referring only to politics and politicians. I was talking of each individual. If your view is that anything goes and that censorship is a no go area, I reckon that means we face a pretty desperate future. Believing that each individual can decide everything for themselves in our crazy, excessively complicated, intertwined world no longer works, even if it ever did. Just look at the progress of the pandemic in the USA. Vast millions of individuals made decisions not to take the advice of scientists. "Im free to do as I please and I will not wear a mask" was a comment heard ad nauseam from interviewees on tv bulletins. "I have the freedom to infect you if I happen to be infected" was rarely if ever heard. Freedom in any society means there have to be rules and absolute freedoms cannot work. Self censorship of the type you suggest is now a thing of the past.

When the genie is out of the bottle and running loose, I defy anyone to chase after it, catch it and then find a way to stuff it back. We are in a new era - and not just because of covid19.

A perceptive post. At the risk of incurring the ire of other posters, I return to a topic aired before - freedom of speech. It does sometimes seem to me that far too many people assume there are only two options here. You either have freedom of speech or you have the opposite: the restricted freedoms of communist and other totalitarian regimes. I am sure there are people in China, Russia etc who are fearful of what they say in public or sometimes even in private. Equally I know people in both countries who say virtually what they want, although within obvious limits - calling Xi or Putin a total moron would be unwise to say the least! Yet these friends are constantly amazed that the President of the United States, members of Congress and other ordinary Americans routinely lie egregiously and routinely and few seem to care. They see Trump as a total liar. They see McConnell and Graham put hands on heart and swear they would never do something. Yet when RBG died, they did precisely the opposite. They outright lied. As kids most of us will have had it drummed into us that we should not lie. If we do there can be consequences. Yet elected politicians and many ordinary folk get away with outrageous lying. How is this permitted under Freedom of Speech? Where are the responsibilities that all freedoms require? Why were the liars McConnell and Graham reelected? What is the difference between not being able to shout Fire in a crowded theater and yet being able to lie, libel and slander elsewhere virtually at will? I am all for quite severe restrictions being placed on the new media. Yet the freedom of speechers instantly shout "foul". We know that leaders in other countries have latched on to Trumps playbook and are using the new media to consolidate their power and policies. I have no idea how or if it can be done. But the start of restoring faith in democracy is surely the need to increase the responsibilities that come with freedom of what people can say.

If ever there was a case for a total revamp of the US electoral system, especially post election, we are seeing it now. As in the UK, there has to be a way to count all votes far more quickly and for the loser to move out of the White House within less than 24 hours. The present desperate state of affairs in Washington is a horrendous example to the rest of the world.

I have gone off Ron Howard since his extremely poor bio pic of the tenor Luciano Pavarotti. That was nothing but a puff piece with almost all the drama of the mans life, and clearly there was lots, not included. Hes better sticking to feature films.

I also thought at first that this had to be boys outside Saranrom Park waiting for customers to pass by in their cars. The fact they are quite spread out also seems to indicate that. But the photo was taken too early the day. You can see the late afternoon sun and these boys rarely appeared before 8:00pm. Looking at photos of the park, I do not recognise the railings. If the boys were waiting for work, they would surely be closer together. Similarly were they going to a protest at least one would surely have a placard or some other sign. All very curious.

Im not sure if the gay weekly drinks events are still happening. I went twice and frankly would not recommend them. Very few attended. Two or three small groups of Thais all stayed at their own tables with their own friends, and a few farang. Neither group mixed.

Totally agree with GWMinUS. “Present Perfect” is a much better film but the sequel is well worth watching. We saw it soon after cinemas reopened and there were all of 3 others at the showing unfortunately.

Something certainly has to be done if democracy as we know it is to survive. Its not so long ago that universal suffrage was assumed to be the be all and end all of democracy, the right of every citizen to elect the leadership. Access to accurate information at that time was severely limited largely to a print media with opposing viewpoints, radio and TV party political projects. The problem it seems to me is less the very recent explosion of media outlets and the internet offering all manner of wacky truths, it is the over-riding belief that each individual has a God-given right to freedom of speech, albeit one that does not allow you to shout “Fire” in a theatre if there is not in fact any fire. This freedom has empowered individuals far more than any other development in my view. “I believe I am right. I believe you are not only wrong, you are spreading lies.” Get one group together facing an opposing group and you have started your recipe for social and political upheaval. The understanding that freedom of speech must be allied to individual responsibility and accepted societal norms has almost totally disappeared. Until that fact is drummed into people, I reckon it matters little what you do to regulate the public and social media platforms. That surely comes down to education and the need for educators to stress at all times that all freedoms within a society come with very specific responsibilities. But clearly that will take time. Until then, some sort of curbs have to be put on internet and social platform freedoms. Lawmakers are fearful of anything which limits freedoms of speech, but look where the USA is today and the need for a revision of the meaning of freedom of speech becomes perfectly obvious.

I wonder when the Thais disappeared from the gogo bars. Reading older posts it was obvious that audiences at many gogo bars were a decent mix of Thais and farang a couple of decades or so ago. Could it be that rising living standards particularly among young professionals led to the opening of more Thai for Thai venues like the nightclub mentioned in the OP? Did Thaksin’s Social Order campaigns make Thais feel they did not want to be seen any more in gogo bars? This could be an interesting topic for a more lengthy article.

THAI has been trying to sell off its A340s for years and I believe it turned down at least one offer some time ago. It bought many of these planes for its North American routes. But being 4 engine gas guzzlers they had to have a much larger business class than usual and pack in as many passengers to make any profit. They rarely succeeded. Hence the routes were cancelled and THAI has been stuck with aircraft that no one in the industry seems to want. Their value now must be a tiny fraction of what THAI paid.

Surely you realise that the last debate took place 12 days before the election!! Does mail in the USA take 11 days plus the 4 or 5 day extension? There are also drop boxes in I believe many states where votes can be deposited - and thats before the days when early voting is permitted. Personally I can’t see any valid reason for counting votes after the end of voting on Election Day.

Oh really? According to Michael and other posters, who have been filling the bars at weekends? Thais! We also know from other correspondents that when the bars had their heyday 20 or so years ago, there were as many Thais as farang,

Judging from these videos and the photos posted elsewhere, those who took part were as usual just ordinary guys and gals. A few floats from companies like Sony. Good on them. It does seem to me that one reason for Taiwan’s Parade being so hugely successful with increasing numbers year after year (down this year largely because of the understandable absence of overseas visitors but last years attendance was around 170,000) is that it is privately organized by a group of gay individuals. I understand it has been so from the start. I often wonder why Thailand which we all thought was a more accepting gay society until Taiwan took over that role, never had a successful Gay Pride Parade. If even Tokyo and Hong Kong can have one (assuming the latter is allowed to continue under the new repressive political regime) and despite the best efforts of its homophobic government Singapore has its very successful gay Pink Dot celebration, why nothing here? Is it because the few that did materialize about 20 years ago were almost totally organized by the commercial sex establishments and most of the participants those who worked in them? Is it because of the ever present fear of ordinary professional Thais that they will encounter ostracism at work and home. I have heard several tales of professional Thais being denied advancement in their firms when it became known they are gay. The Thai Tourism people have a campaign targeted at gay visitors. No doubt it is aimed at the richer niche market interested in temples, beaches and shopping (sex being anathema to the authorities)!!! But Taipei tourism must make a ton of cash out of the Pride Parade if there are indeed 50,000 plus visiting from around the region (at least 10,000 of these must be from Singapore). Is one in Bangkok organized along the lines of that in Taipei not a possibility?

The problem in countries like Thailand the the UK and probably many others as well (Malaysia?) is that it is often totally impossible to read a postmark! How does the US mail system have such clear postmarks?

The fact that all the votes have not been counted in the USA 8 days after the election shows what a total mess the entire system is. I’m not sure if any country has got it right but I agree with z909 that having all votes counted within hours of polls closing and then the new government being installed just hours later seems vastly better than the long drawn out affair across the pond. There is so much I don’t understand. First the idiocy of the electoral college. Yes, I know it may have seemed a good idea at the time, but only to about half the framers. There was intense debate and many did not like it. Second, why is a system devised centuries ago when the USA was a totally different country remain acceptable today? It is a total anachronism and extremely anti-democratic. I realise that voters are not only voting for a President and each state has therefore adopted different systems. But the Presidential vote is for a national office. The others for a local office - even including senators. So why is it so difficult to have one nationwide system for electing Presidents that is the same nationwide and another for local candidates where each can be as different as chalk and cheese. It is surely not out with the capabilities of the US computer companies to come up with an easy to use system that is fully backed up. The mail-in system seems to work but each state having different systems seems again nuts! Why permit the counting of any vote whatever that is not received by the end of polling day? OK. The armed forces mail may take longer. So give them the ballot papers further in advance. That is surely so obvious. Same with ordinary mail in voters. Why do those who leave it to the last possible minute deserve to have a vote counted 4 or 5 days after the election? Then why do those who voted early have to wait to be counted last? They probably arrived first! Then there is the weirdest part of all - a 10 week or so interregnum between the result of the election when, as we are now seeing, an outgoing President can play havoc with the government. What sort of wacky system is that? Again, centuries ago it was probably necessary. Today it most definitely is not. It can all be done in a matter of days as long as the senior civil servants remain in their positions. it sometimes beats me why the US berates the world for not being more democratic. The USA needs to look at its own form of democracy and reform it first before it tells the rest of us what to do IMHO.

I have never ever been able to work out why so many foreign nationals get so worked up about double pricing. Why on earth the fuss? At least two saunas in Bangkok have much higher prices for older farang compared to the Thai entry price? So what? Pay up or go somewhere else. Pissed off that you have to pay a bit more to get into a national park? Now isnt it just a bit strange that most farang tourists have coughed up 20,000 baht for an air fare and many thousands for a hotel, pop 2,000 to 3,000 a night for entertainment, dont eat at street stalls, dont have a family to bring up - and yet they scream blue murder when a Thai gets into Wat Phra Kaew free whereas the farang has to pay 500 baht. If that sticks in your craw so much, take your complaining and go somewhere where there are no distinctions. But of course they wont. They like Thailand and what it offers too much. So quit complaining and just put up with it!