PeterRS

An interesting bunch of comments but none that have not been discussed at some time on this and other Thailand chat rooms. Without going through each one, as a longish-time resident in Bangkok I have recently decided that the constant visits to Immigration at Chaengwattana for 90 day reporting and annual visa/re-entry permit renewals is such a pain that I purchased a Thailand Elite membership. A 20 years visa for 1 million baht is obviously a lot more expensive than having either 65,000 remitted monthly or the other ridiculous method of having 400,000/800,000 tied up unspent in a savings account. But it is vastly more convenient for those who can afford it. Of course you will not get your 1 million back at the end of the term whereas that 800,000 is yours once you die! I am just delighted that Chaengwattana will be a distant memory once I can travel again (travel outside the country just once a year and you never need return there). But even if you never travel, the once-a-year visit to Immigration is a breeze because there is a young lady there to help you and a special counter. Last year I had an appointment at 11:00 am and was out by 11:20. Before getting the Elite visa, I'd have to be there around 7:30 am and was rarely out much before noon thanks to huge queues. Now I rarely have to queue. Even once I start travelling again, Elite members can use the dedicated first/business class lanes. (In that regard, over 70s also can use these lanes.) The paperwork in this country is just plain ridiculous. Bar girls/boys not loving you is again just something everyone has to have at the front of their minds. Of course there are exceptions, but these are mostly few and far between. Two-tier pricing has never bothered me, but it seems to strike a nerve with some posters who are incensed by it. I have never understood why! It is not that this is unique to Thailand because it isn't. And during my career before coming to Thailand I have earned a lot more than the vast majority of Thais. Plus it's their country. What bothered me most when I first settled here is the endemic corruption. It pervades virtually every aspect of life in Thailand. For a time it drove me nuts. But like living anywhere that is not your home country, there are certain issues that will always piss you off. As with all cops being on the take, you have no option other than get used to it - or move to another country. (Note: my comments above refer to Bangkok. I understand Immigration can be a lot easier in places like Pattaya, Chiang Mai etc.)

I went to Chakran in its heyday for farang in the years after its opening around the turn of the century. It was an amazing facility with lots of young Thais and only a few westerners. I think I am right in saying it was the first Bangkok sauna to introduce an all-nude area. There were at that time lounger chairs in front of the bar by the pool. Just sitting enjoying a drink while watching the guys walk down from the first floor on the open stairs opposite was a joy! Anyone know if Heaven sauna near the end of Silom across from the Holiday Inn Hotel still operates? It was sometimes quite active. A long time ago I met there a lovely guy who worked at the nearby Mandarin Oriental hotel.

I believe VCK Cool Space is the massage spa attached to Chakran Sauna off Soi Aree. According to its website, Chakran is open. However, for some years it has been virtually sticky Thai and Asian. I am sure some of the other saunas further from the central area will be open, but these tend also to be basically sticky Thai. However I have not been to any and is only what I have heard.

... and their propensity for making oodles of cash out of every decision they make!

Have you never seen a Filipino with a cock that looks like it's been put through the ringer as a result of some botched circumcision ceremony done by an unqualified quack in the countryside? Not merely a sight for sore eyes, sadly a boy definitely not to spend time with.

It reminds me a little of a similar accident which happened in Manila way back in November 1981. Imelda Marcos, she of the 3,000 pairs of shoes, untold wealth and personal possessions, decided she wanted a Film Festival. She saw one of her roles, apart from massive theft from the Treasury, as brightening the lives of the Filipinos with glamour and beauty (believe it or not, that is what she claimed!) So she had her minions set about building a Film Palace that would rival Cannes, Venice and Berlin. She owned a huge plot of land bordered on one side by the sea and on the other by Roxas Boulevard where she had earlier had built the Cultural Centre of the Philippines. Also on the site was the 5-star Philippine Plaza Hotel which for much the 1980s was effectively cruise central for visiting gay guys. The one problem was the timetable. The contractors had less than six months to complete the entire job. So it was round the clock working for roughly 8,000 labourers. One evening workers on the night shift heard a sound like thunder. The whole roof caved in. It was rumoured that 168 men were buried alive and another 41 injured. Immediately the government imposed a news blackout before eventually stating that just 3 men had died. With the deadline now even more tight, the contractors were ordered to continue with the construction without pulling out the dead bodies. Some who were alive but buried up to their waists in drying cement were never tended to and died where they landed. Only after the Marcos family was kicked out of the country did film of the true grisly event surface. When the Festival went ahead, most of the invitees had declined to accept. About the only 'stars' to attend were Peter Ustinov, Priscilla Presley, Brooke Shields and Imelda's favourite actor, the perennially sun-tanned George Hamilton. After much remodelling the building is currently used as a theatre.

I read that in the 1940s London's Windmill Theatre was allowed to have naked ladies on stage - provided they never moved! Just like statues. Having stayed open all throughout the war, including the Blitz, it adopted the motto, "We never closed." Some wit changed that to "We never clothed!"

As a part-time observer of US politics, I was always staggered that such a seemingly reasonable man as John McCain would select such a disaster as Palin to be his running mate. Was he so desperate that no-one else would have been a better choice? Had his vetters really done their job? How he must have regretted that selection for the rest of his life. As soon as she got tangled up in the 60 Minutes interview about which magazines she read and then the baloney about seeing Russia from her front door, I don't understand why he just did not drop her - from a height on to hard concrete.

Does it really matter? In every Atlas, map and guidebook I have ever consulted, the city's name is Bangkok - pure and simple. Are we going to get into a situation as with some airlines a few years ago when China objected to Taiwan being called a country? At least legally there is doubt as to whether Taiwan is in fact a country, given the various declarations at the Cairo, Potsdam and San Francisco Conferences during and after World War 2, as well as the declarations by the Nixon and Carter administrations.

I find the increasing reports of air rage, mostly it seems on USA internal flights, very disturbing. From what I read most involve those who are against the mask mandate. Well, my view is bugger them. They should be both fined and jailed. I realise cockpits are now secure and you cannot open a plane's doors at 10,000 meters, but the thought of fights breaking out on an aircraft I might also be on appals me, as I know it does the Flight Attendants Union. If by some chance a couple of passengers forced a flight attendant to give them the security code for the cockpit, who knows what might happen. To my way of thinking, this is a result of not making covid prevention measures a Federal mandate and instead leaving it to individual states and thus subject to political whims. Do the good people of the USA not realise that the numbers who have died from covid19 already number at least 50% more than all Americans who died in World Wars 1 and 2, the Korean War and the various wars in Indochina? In those wars, Federal mandates were in force. With covid19 it's people who stupidly call themselves politicians with ridiculous agendas who call the shots - or rather to avoid the shots!!

What idiocy! If they want to make a change, why not use the city's true official name - Krung Thep Mahanakhon Amon Rattanakosin Mahinthara Yuthaya Mahadilok Phop Noppharat Ratchathani Burirom Udomratchaniwet Mahasathan Amon Piman Awatan Sathit Sakkathattiya Witsanukam Prasit!! That will force all map and atlas makers to reprint! Most major cities and most capital cities around the world are known by a relatively simple one or two word title. Paris, Rome, Madrid, New York, Chicago, San Francisco, Tokyo, Osaka, Taipei, Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Kathmandu, Buenos Aires, Ankara etc. Why complicate matters by making a capital city's name longer than Bangkok or Krung Thep? You can just hear it! "Where are you going for your vacation?" "Oh, we're off to Krung Thep Maha Nakhon to check out the gay scene. And then we're going to Nay Pyi Taw to check out the massage parlours!" I'll bet the Tourist Authority will have something to say about this. As a result largely of colonial rule, many cities names were changed. Understandably those now independent countries are anxious to return to the names they used to have. Hence Mumbai, Chennai and Yangon for example. But Thailand was never colonised!

Your points are all taken. I do think we need a firmer guideline. For example, when there is a substantial chunk of an article included (and i mean something like 15-20 lines along with the link to read the rest of the article, where does that fit into the guidelines? It's not a quote. It's much too long for a quote. Yet it is not a full article (although there have been occasions when around 75% of an article has been quoted). I just think we'll all feel more comfortable with more precise guidelines as none of us wish to see the site fall foul of copyright regulations.

What a wonderful report! Thank you for that and for all your truly wonderful photos.

Obviously a silly western magazine with a writer/publisher who has absolutely zero interest in Asia. In another article it also lists its 10 best Male Figure Skaters. Clearly Asians and those of Asian descent mean little to this magazine since the only one it mentions is Nathan Chen. He may be American but both his parents were born in China. Also four of the top five winners in the Men's Competition were purely Asian.

The shit spouted by the Thai authorities is thrown in our faces yet again! An Interpol red notice is issued for two farang whose whereabouts are "unclear" i.e. no one knows where they are. Yet, these same authorities allege that they cannot issue a similar Interpol notice for the Red Bull heir murderer because they do not have an address for him! Do they seriously believe all their fellow Thais are all idiots? Even so, at one time these authorities did in fact claim the murderer was indeed on an Interpol notice. At that time I looked through all 7,000+ individuals on that list. Guess what? The Red Bull heir was not on it. A total disgrace!

You mean he is wrong in that description? In general I expect that is pretty accurate!

I do not fully agree with @Boy69's comment. There is always a debate on chat forums about money boys when it comes to Thailand. Although now happily settled down in Bangkok, I have lived here for 20 years and can say with complete conviction that in Bangkok you will find a lot of guys who are perfectly happy to spend time and have sex with a young foreigner without any thought of payment. Of course, some will be money boys but they are quite easy to weed out. In Pattaya on the other hand - and in many other cities - pay for play tends to be more the rule from what I hear.

Cha seems to be about the tallest at 5'10". Hanyu is 5'8". Being so slim (but with a beautiful ass!!) he seems to me have the perfect shape for a figure skater. Nathan Chen and Shoma Uno always seem a bit dumpy to me. Sorry, I know that's unfair as they are fantastic skaters. I'm looking at them from purely a gay perspective I suppose!

I quite agree. Barry Kenyon has lived in Thailand for many years, has been involved with the British Embassy for 25 years and for much of that time was Britain's Honorary Consul in Pattaya. To suggest he does not know what the trends are in Pattaya is a bit ridiculous, in my view. Whether he is correct in his assumptions only time will tell. What he realises is that Thailand is changing - and has been changing quite rapidly over the last decade and more. Inflation is now biting harder than before. The Immigration Department's ridiculous visa requirements re the 800,000/400,000 baht minimum untouchable in accounts remains nuts and has already seen retirees depart! Not everyone has pensions that would cover the 65,000 per month route. But then how long with that rate remain? It has been stable for many years. What's the betting that it will increase before long? In Pattaya, there was a spell of a few years when Russians flooded to the city. Where are they now? Did many buy apartments for retirement? Are many retired there? Then there were the Chinese hordes. They are now stuck in China and no one has any idea when their travel restrictions will be eased. Willl Pattaya still be on their travel list? Or will the trend for travel to other destinations continue? I often wonder why there are not far more Japanese gay guys visiting Pattaya. Same with the south-east Asian gay market? Of course, some do visit. But I suspect few if any will consider Pattaya as a retirement option. And retirement is surely the key issue that Kenyon is discussing. As for the western expats, surely time is running out? In the immediate future, air fares may remain attractive to stimulate demand. But in the longer term, they have to go up as airlines attempt to recover the massive losses of the last two years. Same with many hotels.

I suspect that's true for almost anyone visiting Thailand for the first time for almost any kind of work. I agree that at your age you will have absolutely no problem finding sex with other young Thai guys without paying. Although if you are basing yourself in Bangkok, please remember it is a very spread out city and many guys you might consider meeting may have to travel a long way to get to your hotel/condo. So an offer at least to pay for public transport will in many cases be very welcome. That shouldn't cost you more than about 200 baht - less than US$7. Equally if you have had an especially good time with a guy, an offer to take him for a simple Thai dinner will be welcomed. Most guys you are likely to meet will not be paid very much. Also, some will probably be university students. While I agree with @Londoner that the sauna scene has long assed its heyday, given your age there are still lots of saunas which primarily attract young Thais. These tend to be located nearer the outskirts of the city. Older farang (westerners) tend not to venture so far out but you could well find yourself quite popular. Given your height, I suspect quite a few of guys will be keen to touch you to find out if you are as big down there! LOL In any case, if you go to a sauna, you have to expect you all be cruised and probably touched. You just have to get used to it. A gentle smile, shake of the head and brushing off the offending fingers is to difficult to learn. The only point to remember is that it seems from what I have been told that the use of condoms is not so common in those saunas. So take care. HIV rates among younger Thais is still far too high in Bangkok. One of my best friends found his longtime partner (they've been together for 24 years) at the very popular disco DJ Station at the top of Suriwong close to Rama 4. I have not been for nearly a decade but again i am told it is usually packed with young guys. Many will be from neighbouring Asian countries like Singapore and Taiwan, but there will be plenty of good-looking Thais. Just for generally looking around and getting a 'feel' for Bangkok gay evenings, you would do worse than go for drinks at one of the main bars/eateries in Silom Soi 4.

I don't claim any more knowledge than any other. But having experienced Thailand over many years I'd find it hard to think that prostitution has much to do with Thais present attitude to sex. As @Londoner rightly points out, prostitution has been pervasive in the country for centuries. It's almost a part of life. Or at least it used to be. What concerns me much more now are the instances of incest that seem to have increased - or is that just because they are given more publicity? Over the years I met quite a number of young guys who had been raped by family members. I believe the same is true for girls. Is it because of the veneration for the older generation that these are kept quite - or even not mentioned by those who have been subject to rape? As for the second point, I agree it is not just related to sex. There is something in the Thai psyche that creates an unswerving loyalty to the views of elders. And it is a good deal stronger than in other Asian cultures where there is a similar veneration for one's elders. Whatever the reason, I fear it will take more than a generation to result in much change.

The conservatism of Thai society in general is very well known. What is relatively new is how Thailand is falling behind several other Asian societies. It was often assumed there was no more culturally conservative nation than Japan. Yet in recent years several wards and cities have introduced same-sex partnerships, including Tokyo's Shibuya district. These are not legal partnerships but they are extraordinary given the fixed views of the older generation of Japanese. Last December Tokyo announced that the entire city will recognise same-sex partnerships starting April. Given that something close to one third of the population live in Tokyo, this is a huge step forward. The same was true in Taiwan. It was only 34 years ago that the island was under martial law - little more than one generation. Homosexuality was not recognised, was frowned upon and about the only place to meet up with fellow gays was Taipei's New Park a little behind the old Hilton Hotel (as portrayed in the novel and subsequent movie Crystal Boys). The developments that led to the rapid development of a thriving gay scene and the introduction of same-sex marriage are surely a formula for other equally conservative Asian countries including Thailand (although the notorious anti-sodomy laws will make this more difficult in former British colonies ike Singapore and Malaysia). As in Thailand, in Japan and Taiwan it was the older generation who wanted to stick to traditional family values. But here there is the added complication that it is also the elite power brokers. Polls in Japan and Taiwan regularly showed it was the younger generation that increasingly believed the old cultural norms should change. I'm sure private polls in Thailand will show the same. But tradition here is too strong. Few in the younger generation dare to oppose their elders. Accordingly sex remains for most a taboo subject and, not incidentally, the number of unplanned teen pregnancies here continues to rise.

We visited about six months ago. I was a bit surprised that being over 60 I got in at a substantial reduction but I had to pay full price for my Thai partner! But he loved the experience. Best to shop around as I see there are substantial discounts available on various websites. But one website is offering special prices for Valentine's Day!!! Maybe that gets you just a few postcards of the view!

No apologies needed - but thanks. Re the new rules, I have always been under the impression that quotes from media outlets are permitted provided the source is accurately included. That's what I have always done and hope it's not breaking rules. After all, providing a link to a media source is in my book identical to quoting that media source in this forum. Perhaps Oz could restate the rules to remind us.

So unsurprisingly Nathan Chen ran away with the Gold Medal - and deservedly so. Hanyu Yuzuru did well to rise from 9th after the short programme to 4th overall. The fall on his first quad jump probably killed his chances of the bronze. My dark horse, the Korean, also fell and came in 5th. But surely it was the silver medal winner 18-year old Japanese Yuma Kagiyama who surprised everyone with a free skating exhibition as good as his short programme two days ago. He will be one to beat in the coming years. I still cannot understand why Brian Orser was not with Hanyu. I can only assume that Hanyu had decided to dispense with his coaching and go it alone. Now 27, he will almost certainly be too old for the next Winter Olympics. But then he doesn't need them. He's already an icon and a legend of the sport.