Gaybutton

I'm with you. I can handle the pierced ears, but I can do without the rest of the piercings. "I had nothing better to do today, so I thought I'd go out and have somebody punch holes through my flesh." - George Carlin

That appears to be an excellent book, well worth reading. I'm going to read it. In my opinion, one of the first things people need to do is to learn to stop trying to compare Thailand with the way things work in their home countries. Trying to apply western ideas and values to the way things work in Thailand simply does not work. Sometimes I see people object when people write TIT, meaning This is Thailand. But TIT does have validity. When it comes to prostitution, many westerners see prostitution as something degrading and something to be looked down upon as immoral. I believe most Thais see it simply as a way of making good money, especially when it's either that or the rice farm.

So much has been going on lately. For whatever reasons, I have been excluded from being "in the loop." You know what? Good. I don't know what's been going on and have been told very little. I wish nobody told me anything at all. I have nothing to do with any of the goings-on and I don't want anything to do with it. If the Pattaya Passion board is gone, maybe that had something to do with all of the recent intrigue and maybe it didn't. Maybe there is a good reason why nothing was said and maybe there isn't. I don't know, I don't want to know, and I don't care about what happened to Pattaya Passion or any of the rest of the recent brouhaha. Enough already! Bottom line: I do not and never have and never will allow posts that harm specific businesses, especially without substantiation. I am not going to favor one business over another. I am not involved with all the intrigues and I don't want to be. I'm not going to try to find out anything more than I already know, which is virtually nothing, and that includes trying to find out what happened with Pattaya Passions. Leave me out of it, folks. I have a choice. I can be involved in all of the intrigues and gossip or I can live my life in peace. I'm going to live my life in peace. For those of you who just have got to know, go and find out for yourselves. Neither I nor this board is the vehicle for it. When I go to Sunee Plaza, I go to enjoy the bars and the boys. I'm not there to be involved in their business problems and mysteries. My feeling about the whole thing is it's none of my business and it's also none of anybody else's other than those directly involved. I'm a message board moderator, not a reporter. Once again, there is no reason for anyone to be afraid to go and have a wonderful time in Sunee Plaza. If there are goings on behind the scenes, let them settle their problems themselves. That's the way I feel about it, anyway.

Do I actually have to say, "You ain't in the west"? While it is obvious that the vast majority of people take boys off for sex, to me that's the very reason why, on a technical level, the bar is not a house of prostitution - because you're taking the boy off. To me, if it's a house of prostitution, that means the sex is taking place in the house, not elsewhere. So, on a strictly technical level, I would consider a bar to be a house of prostitution if there are short time rooms and they are used for sex. If not, then I would not consider it to be a house of prostitution. "You were both wrong! And you were both right." - Yul Brynner, 'Taras Bulba'

That is GT's decision to make, not mine. GT is where the buck stops on this board.

Well, you know me. It wouldn't be the first time . . .

Only the gossip queens.

I won't say I'm in the know. I will say I'm in the "what I've been told" by a few who are in the "they think they're in the know." Does that garble it enough for you? Gentlemen, please don't push it. I'm not about to reveal anything I've been told in confidence. If I did that I would be destroying my own credibility and trustworthiness. Besides, some of what I have been told is so ludicrous that I believe only small portions of it in the first place. Even if you're someone much closer to me than most, if you try to place me in the kind of position tantamount to "awww come on, you can tell me" I guarantee you I'm not going to like it. So, please don't put me in that kind of situation. Some of you may already have noticed that I'm ignoring Emails and PMs asking me to tell it "just to them." Save your typing. You know what I'm doing with those? Deleting them without a response. And, if you see me personally and take me aside to ask, you're quickly going to find yourself standing there alone. I don't think I'm stepping out of bounds by saying the most serious problems have now been amicably resolved. Again, there is no reason to avoid Sunee Plaza and if it wasn't for these posts you never would have known anything was ever out of the ordinary. I've already said that I think it was a mistake for anything to ever have been posted about any of this at all. None of it is any of our business, has nothing to do with us, and had no effect on your ability to safely enjoy Sunee Plaza. In other words, PattayaMale is right. It's just back fence gossip. Anything beyond that will have to come from those who asked for my discretion. I'm also not wasting my time by running around trying to find out anything more than I have already been told because: "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn." - Clark Gable, 'Gone with the Wind'

That's what it will take. I have yet to find a web site that does an acceptable job of translating Thai to English. It's probably just as bad the other way around. I can usually at least get the gist of it, but this one is tough. I think he's trying to say he's the shy type, somewhat emotional, has a nice smile, doesn't speak much English, and wants people who meet him to enjoy his company. The words he uses to refer to himself are the feminine form of "I". That's the best I can do without printing it out and taking it to a Thai friend to get a good translation.

I'm going to try that. I hope it works.

Nicky's web site is also online: http://www.nickysgaypattaya.com

Whadya mean joking ?!?!?

But of course. They ought to go well with my red bikini, don't you think?

Well, yes . . . that's the idea.

Even more odd is the fact that I invited an explanation to be posted here, but so far there has been no response. I don't understand why that board would have been suddenly taken down without any kind of warning whatsoever. One of my friends, a member of that board, told me he had been on that board only a few hours before it suddenly disappeared. There was nothing posted about its imminent demise and he received no PM or Email announcing their departure. What we don't know is whether that board will reappear. Some say it might be down because the board wasn't paid. I could be wrong, but I don't think so. When other boards have gone down for that reason there has usually been some sort of grace period before the actual domain itself is put up for sale. It also stands to reason that if the board was about to go down because the owner couldn't afford to keep it going, an effort would have been made to solicit donations from the membership in order to save the board. From what I have been told, donations were solicited, but not for the express purpose of rescuing the board. In most cases, when this sort of thing happens, if the cause was neglecting to pay, then the payment is usually made and the board reappears by now. I would also have thought if the owners intend to bring the board back online, then they would have posted about it on the various gay Thailand boards. So far, not a word has been posted by the owners. I don't understand why the board owners would not have sent out some sort of explanation to the membership. I would have thought that as a matter of courtesy, those loyal to the board would at least have been told something. To my knowledge, nobody was told a thing. I think the board owners owe an explanation, if to no one else, at least to those who were members and supportive of the board, especially if any of the membership had made money contributions to the board. But no explanation at all? I don't understand that. It's now on my "I Don't Get It" list.

If your avatar pic is also really you, are you free for dinner Saturday night . . . ?

And credit goes to Gayaffairs for having posted this flier on the Ting & Tong board. I didn't know about this, so if you are interested, thank him, not me. http://www.gaytingtong.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6594

Well, I have a question for you - the same question lvdkeyes asked, but you didn't answer. What country do you come from? Whether we terrible Americans live in Thailand or anywhere else, you've decided that should mean you get to stereotype all Americans and that should also mean we forfeit the right to discuss issues and seek changes we see as improvements. In case you haven't noticed, we Americans disagree with each other on these issues all the time. That negates your ideas about stereotypes. I'm sure we're all very sorry that we weren't raised according to your standards. Your idea of disrespect differs from mine, that's for sure. I find nothing disrespectful about criticizing people in power when we disagree with them. Apparently your idea is that just because someone holds governmental power, that means we are disrespectful unless we either agree or keep our mouths shut. If that is your belief system, I'm glad I don't have the same belief system. People don't get to take away my right to think for myself and express my opinions just because they are in office. My respect has to be earned. I don't just automatically bestow respect upon others simply because they are judges or politicians. If I have a "fat wallet" I'll have you know I worked for it. I worked for what I have and worked damned hard. Nobody gave it to me. I get annoyed with people who resent me because I have more money than they do. What do you expect us "fat wallet" Americans to do, give it away? Give it to you? Are we supposed to feel guilty because we succeeded in life and can afford to live the lifestyle that others wish they could also live? You may find this disgusting, but you know what I'm going to do with what I have? I'm keeping it. I'm going to live on it, enjoy my life with it, make myself comfortable with it, and I'm not going to give it away to anybody, with the possible exception of IRS. When I die, if I could take it with me, that's exactly what I would do. How terrible of me. Now that I think about it, even if you really could take it with you, I'd bet IRS would still manage to get a share of it . . .

I agree with what you have been saying, but the police are holding bars responsible for what their employees do when they're not working. Remember that they are penalizing bars and bar owners if any of their employees test positive for drugs. I don't know if it's legal in Thailand for the police to do that or if it would stand up in Thai courts, but there it is.

Malawi Launches Operation Against High-Profile Gay and Llesbian People Fears of backlash across Africa as US evangelists accused of spreading religious zeal behind homophobic campaigns David Smith and agencies guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 16 February 2010 Police in Malawi have launched an operation to hunt down and arrest high-profile gays and lesbians in the southern African state. Fears of an anti-gay backlash across Africa are intensifying after the prosecution of the first gay couple to seek marriage in Malawi, and thousands of Ugandans demonstrated this week in support of a bill proposing the death penalty for some offences involving homosexual acts. Last week five men were arrested at an alleged gay wedding in Kenya. Dave Chingwalu, a spokesman for police in Malawi, said a 60-year-old man was arrested yesterday and charged with sodomy. Chingwalu said he received a complaint from a young man that he had been asked to undress by the older man and was then sodomised. Police investigations had uncovered a network of high-profile people involved homosexual acts, investigations were under way "and we will arrest them all", Chingwalu said. Malawi has been criticised by international groups for the prosecution of Steven Monjeza, 26, and 20-year-old Tiwonge Chimbalanga, jailed in December for holding a wedding ceremony. The men were charged with unnatural acts and gross indecency and could be imprisoned for up to 14 years if found guilty. A 21-year-old man was recently sentenced to two months' community service for putting up pro-gay rights posters, and a senior minister expelled a woman from her town even after a court acquitted her on charges of having sex with two girls. Campaigners in Malawi say homophobic legislation is driving gays and lesbians underground, making them hard to reach with information that could protect them from Aids."In Malawi it's a complete witch-hunt that denies the people the right to self-determination," said Phumi Mtetwa, executive director of the Lesbian and Gay Equality Project, based in South Africa. "We are deeply concerned about this spate of homophobia across the continent." Mtetwa said the recent series of incidents was no accident but rather the work of US evangelical Christian groups. "It's very well calculated. It's exploding at the moment but it's been happening for a year and a half. We have proof of American evangelical churches driving the religious fundamentalism in Uganda." The Ugandan parliament is considering a bill that would impose life imprisonment as the minimum punishment for anyone convicted of having gay sex. If the accused person is HIV positive or a serial offender, or a "person of authority" over the other partner, or if the "victim" is under 18, a conviction will result in the death penalty. Members of the public are obliged to report any homosexual activity to police within 24 hours or risk up to three years in jail. The legislation has earned international condemnation - Barack Obama described it as "odious" - but has received vocal backing within Uganda. Thousands of protesters took to the streets in Jinja, about 40 miles east of the capital, Kampala, in the biggest demonstration against homosexuals since the bill was introduced. Okware Romano, a protester, said: "I have a verse in the bible in Leviticus 20 verse 13. It says that homosexuals should be put to death ... yes." Last week police in Kenya said they had arrested five men whom they believed were homosexual in Kikambala beach resort near Mombasa. District officer George Matandura said two of the men had been found with wedding rings, attempting to get married. "It is an offence, an unnatural offence, and also their behaviour is repugnant to the morality of the people," Matandura said. The other three men were turned in to the police by members of the public. Two of them had reportedly been beaten. Gay sex is illegal in 36 countries in Africa. Only South Africa has legalised same sex marriage, and even there campaigners say the fight against bigotry is far from over.

I don't think Ganymede had anything sinister in mind and I have no objection to what he wrote or the way he wrote it. Actually, I think it was a clever way for him to do it. I also think the omission of the off fee was simply an oversight on his part. The night I spoke with him I wasn't standing there taking notes. It was just conversation and I wrote my post to the best of my recollection. I don't see anything wrong with him correcting any errors I made. I regret that I made any errors at all and I'm glad he corrected them. Also, I did not let on who I am until we were near the end of our conversation. Throughout most of our discussion he had no idea that I had anything to do with the message boards and once I told him who I am, I got the impression that he wasn't a board follower in the first place. I have neither objection nor criticism about his revision of my post. I meant what I said in my post. I think Ganymede has an excellent chance of success and I sincerely hope the bar does succeed. I will certainly be going back there again - often.

If what you say is correct, then all that tactic seems to have actually accomplished was to get everybody talking about Sunee Plaza,much more than usual. It just seems to me that a mountain is being made out of a molehill. If I understand correctly, you are saying that this whole brouhaha came about because of business competition? I wish whatever needs to be settled would get settled already and let life and speculation get back to normal, if ever it was 'normal' to begin with.

You'll have to ask them that question. The law you quote specifies a prostitution establishment. While many think that's just what these bars are, so far that is based on personal opinion and until the powers-that-be in Thailand take the same view legally, then personal opinions are irrelevant. Once again, a law is not a law unless it is enforced. "John Marshall has made his decision. Now let him enforce it." - Andrew Jackson, President of the United States (John Marshall - Chief Justice of the Supreme Court) - 1832

Bingo! Nothing has visibly changed at all. This whole thing ought to go down in history as one of the most bizarre occurrences ever experienced around here.

The Pattaya Passion web site and Board ( http://pattayapassion.com ) no longer exists and the domain is up for sale. I have no clue as to why or what's going on with that all of a sudden, on top of everything else going on lately. I don't know whether it's temporary or permanent. I have no other information. If someone who represents that board wishes to explain, feel free to do so.