Gaybutton

Maybe, but that is only speculation. It is my understanding that their going offline has more to do with a change in format, although I admit it does seem coincidental that they would pick now to go offline without any kind of prior announcement. According to Thai law, all farang must have his passport on his person at all times. The police know that few people carry their actual passport. A copy is almost always acceptable and there is no reason to think it is any different now. If you prefer not to go to Sunee Plaza, then don't go, but I see no reason to try to convince people to avoid Sunee Plaza. Again, this whole thing has been blown so far out of proportion that the word 'ridiculous' isn't even an adequate description.

February 16~28 Gourmet Set Menu House Champagne *** Amuse Bouche *** White Wine Cackle Berry Chardonnay, Australia 2007 Gourmand Terrine of Goose Liver, smoked Ox Tongue and Capsicum served with green Beans Salad *** Light Madras Curry flavored Cream Soup with Mango & Shrimps *** Camembert Risotto with red Wine marinated Grapes *** Lemon Sherbet *** Red Wine Cackle Berry, Shiraz, Australia, 2006 Pan

So do I. It would be very difficult to convince me that one message posted on one board by one person was the catalyst solely responsible for instigating the stupidity presently occurring. But whatever nonsense is going on, it has no effect on customers patronizing Sunee Plaza. I don't go to the bars very often, but I have plenty of friends who are in the bars every day. Believe me, if there was any reason to avoid Sunee Plaza I would know about it and I would be the first one to post about it. Sunee Plaza is just fine. There is no bar at which a customer needs to have any fears at all. Even if you find yourself in a bar at which the boys are under-age, that's not your problem unless you take an under-age boy off for sex. There are no laws or regulations that prohibit customers from being in a bar and watching the dancers. You have no involvement of any kind simply by being there. That's a problem between the bar owners and the police. It's their problem, not yours. It's never been the customers' problem and it still isn't. You can safely go to any bar you want. Again, the only issue that concerns customers is making sure that a boy you intend to take off is at least 18 years old. I'm also a little annoyed that everyone is forming opinions and posting except any of the bar owners. I know damned well that several bar owners follow these boards. Quite frankly I'm growing tired of ending up placed in a position in which the boards somehow become responsible for dealing with the problems, intrigues, and concerns of bar owners. You want our business? Good. This board and I personally have always been happy to promote your business in any appropriate way we can, free of charge. How about some of the bar owners doing something to attract our business, such as offering your customers incentives to come to your bar? Try happy hour prices, contests or raffles for a free off, coming up with a bar show that isn't the same damned thing done by every other bar, giving us a reasonable music volume level, comfortable furniture, spotlessly clean restrooms, and I think most important, get your dancers to actually be entertaining instead of just standing there like zombies staring at themselves in the mirrors, paying little or no attention to the customers, and doing nothing but the "one-knee shuffle." And while we're at it, get rid of those damned pushy mama-sans and overly aggressive street touts. You want to know why you never see me in your bar? That's why. I'm not about to patronize a bar at which your street touts block my path or physically grab me and try to get me to go into your bar. I'm also not about to patronize a bar at which your pushy mama-sans sit next to me uninvited and start trying to get me to select a boy to sit with me, buy him drinks, buy drinks for the mama-san, and then start trying to get me to give the mama-san a tip. I'll choose a boy myself, thank you very much, and I'll tip your mama-san if and when I think it's appropriate. These same complaints have been posted on the boards for years. Well, how about finally doing something about them and start listening to your customers, giving them what they want? Then you'll have all the business you can handle.

And all this time I thought it was already so . . . "Can you imagine that? Are people really this fuckin' stupid? They've got this whole country celebrating the 50th anniversary of an imaginary rodent." - George Carlin

I don't think you have to worry about police raids, especially if you are sticking to the beer bars. Even when the police do raid, they don't seem to hassle the customers. They simply ask the customers to leave. That's not the issue. Whatever the problem is, the police are not bothering the customers. Nothing I've heard indicates any danger to customers. The only thing the customers have to worry about is remembering to make sure any boy they take off is at least 18 years old. Your post is exactly what I was afraid of, that this nonsense would needlessly start scaring people away from Sunee Plaza. While I understand Oogleman's position, I think it was a mistake to write posts saying this or that is now verboten. In hindsight, I think it would have been better to simply contact board owners and moderators, explain the situation, and ask for cooperation. Very few of the kinds of posts he is talking about ever appear in the first place and boards such as this one don't allow them anyway. I had a feeling this would all end up getting blown way out of proportion, and that's what I see starting to happen. I have heard no reports of anything being out of the ordinary for customers. If there was any reason for customers to avoid Sunee Plaza I would have heard by now and believe me I would have made it known on this board. There is no reason for customers to fear and no reason to avoid Sunee Plaza.

I've never heard of that, but if you feel uncomfortable about posting a link to the article, you can copy and paste the article here but you must make sure to attribute the article to its source.

I kind of fault my own mother for disliking mustaches as much as I do. She would always say, "I never liked mustaches. I hate the idea of kissing a man and getting my teeth brushed at the same time." Well, I never liked them either (on Thai boys), and especially on women . . . ! On farang, the mustaches and beards work fine for me, as long as the farang are past a certain age. Many of my friends who sport them just wouldn't look right without them. It works for on Chinese "Fu Manchu" types as well. But on the Thai boys . . . no way!

It's taken me all this time, but I have finally reached a point at which I can handle the tattoos. Now it's facial hair. I notice more and more of the Thai boys are sporting small, scraggly, almost peachfuzz type beards (when they can grow them) and mustaches. For me, it's very unattractive. I'm ready for people to be handing out razors and shaving foam along with the condom handouts. I'm wondering how the rest of you feel about those mustaches and beards.

Aren't you going to tell us the name and location of this tailor? Probably in Hong Kong . . .

The following appears in THE NATION: _____ AHEAD OF RULING ON THAKSIN'S ASSETS CASE House dissolution, civil war, coup most feared February 15, 2010 But Businessmen, Expatriates Keep Fingers Crossed, Hoping Peace will Prevail A House dissolution, civil war and a coup top the list of investment risks facing businesses ahead of the February 26 landmark verdict on the Bt76-billion assets foreclosure trial. Former premier Thaksin Shinawatra may be guilty or not. His family's enormous fortune may be forfeited entirely or partially or the whole amount returned. All these are among the possible scenarios that are prompting virtually all businessmen in this country - Thais or expatriates - to keep their finger crossed. Many wish the political situation before and after February 26 will not be as bad as the brief street riots last April or the November 2008 airport closures. Most importantly, they hope there will be neither a civil war among those with divergent political ideologies nor a coup that suspends the country's democratic governance system once again. These perspectives were shared during last Thursday's roundtable discussion on Thailand's economic recovery versus its political crisis with a focus on the February 26 court verdict - jointly organised by The Nation and Krungthep Turakij. When the yellow-shirted protesters shut down Bangkok's Suvarnabhumi Airport and Don Muang Airport back in late November 2008 to pressure then prime minister Somchai Wongsawat into tendering his resignation, visitor arrivals plunged 23 per cent the following month, just when the tourism industry was entering its high season. Then came April 2009 when the red-shirted protesters went on a rampage on Bangkok's streets in a bid to oust Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva. The tourism industry took another major hit, marked by a 22-per-cent fall in visitor arrivals. Many businessmen now like to joke that Thai politics has become so "colourful" over the past several years, just like the colour-coded teams on the traditional college Sports Day. In the end, they hope the players, red- or yellow-shirted, will respect the judges' verdict so that the country may return to normalcy. Given the protracted political rifts, Thailand has missed chances to focus on the longer-term strategy of national development, especially with the enforcement of the crucial Asean Economic Community coming up in 2015. One roundtable panelist said he's really sorry for the sad state of political affairs here, suggesting that more and more businessmen and investors are losing patience and growing increasingly hopeless. Another participant warned that the possible bankruptcy of several European governments, which are now sinking under huge fiscal deficits, might stall the global economic recovery, which is still fragile. The US economic recovery is still not creating jobs, while Japan remains mired in deflation after two decades of low growth. And China's economic bubbles are increasingly worrisome. All these factors could trip up Thailand's exports and GDP growth this year. If the domestic political situation is not stabilised anytime soon, Thailand could be heading for another round of economic troubles. To protect against uncertain times, a panelist suggested holding onto cash and bullion while selling off stocks and bonds. Such pessimism also prevails because Thailand is passing through a significant political transition but lacks an effective mechanism to resolve conflicts. A society cannot solve its problems with street politics. Yet, the parliamentary system also appears to be losing its effectiveness as far as elections are concerned. One panelist said the flow of funds behind street politics should be cut off by authorities so that we could expect to see an end to the current protests. An army without logistics and funding will quickly become feeble. For many optimists, the darkest hour may come on February 26 when the Supreme Court hands down its historic verdict on the assets seizure case. After that, Thailand should be able to come to terms with any of the outcomes. Political stability should gradually return. Or is that just wishful thinking?

"Only little people pay taxes." - Leona Helmsley

I hope so because I still don't know just what the hell is going on. Why is the Sunee Plaza web site offline? Why was the street party for Sunee Plaza canceled? The Krazy Dragon web site tells us that the go-go boy, Mon, who worked there is dead. Nothing is stated about what happened to him. Is his death connected to this intrigue? If foul play was involved, why is there nothing about it in the media? There has to be more to what's going on than even I have been told, personally, by PM, and by Email. So far I've heard three totally different versions of the "real" story, which means I don't know what the real story actually is. It also means that I'm either being subjected to the rumor mill by people who in reality are just as clueless about all this as I am or it means that I'm being deliberately lied to. I don't see what other possibilities there could be. As Oogleman says, there is no gag order, at least not on this web site. Nothing has changed about what constitutes acceptable posts here, but everyone, including me, feels that we're being kept in the dark about something. I don't necessarily feel that we all have to be told what just now, but I'd like to know why. If someone's life is in danger, I can understand, but if not, then why all this mystery? I've seen plenty of bizarre goings on in Pattaya over the years, but this one takes the cake. Once this whole thing is finally revealed, it better be good. "You've been trying real hard not to tell me something, Billy. What is it?" - John Wayne, 'The Sons of Katie Elder'

Believe me, that wish came true. Thank you Camfrog!!!!

And to think I was only trying to cut to the slow . . .

There's gonna be a eulogy?!?!? With my luck, Jomtien will be the speaker . . .

I can't begin to imagine why. Although, sometimes when I talk to myself I get angry over what I say. Only a few days ago I slapped myself in the face. Oh well, nothing's changed. I think I've mentioned before that when I was a kid I had an imaginary friend. I had to. Nobody else liked me. But he also didn't like me. At least he was gay. He was my first experience . . . "As an actor, no one could touch him. As a human being, no one wanted to touch him." - Walter Matthau, 'The Sunshine Boys' Whew! For a while there I was worried . . . Geezer? You also could visit me at the Bangkok Hilton. We could share some rotten rice along with a little cockroach fazoo. They're all out of wine, but perhaps they could spare a couple cups of some nice contaminated water. Come to think of it, that's what I'm having tonight. Valentine's Day, you know . . .

Very good question. I don't know. I am guessing it would show up on their computers. Also, since people are saying you get your old passport back, but invalidated, your reentry permit will still be stamped inside. I think the best thing for you to do is go to Immigration and ask.

That's excellent advice. 3 guesses whether I'm going to follow it. 3 more guesses what happens next time you post a personal attack, even when it's directed toward paranoid ol' me. Captain Queeg: "Ahh, but the strawberries. That's... that's where I had them. They laughed at me and made jokes . . ." - Humphrey Bogart, 'The Caine Mutiny'

Maybe that's exactly what he meant to say . . .

That's very easy to say when you're not the one. I'm the one. You folks can post until you're blue in the fingers, but again I am the only one associated with the operation of this board who resides permanently in Thailand. I would appreciate it if my wishes were respected. If you really want to name names without proper substantiation, how about doing so on other boards, where the owners and moderators don't seem to mind. My analogy is that, as far as I know, only one farang has ever been arrested as a result of taking an under-age boy off from a bar. Obviously the odds of being arrested are quite remote, despite the law. But the fact remains that somebody was indeed arrested. I see this issue as the same thing. You could most likely write all the posts you want and name all the names you want and the odds are that nothing will ever happen. Those odds aren't good enough for me. If you were in my place I don't think they would be good enough for you either. The fact is that Thailand has some oddball libel laws and if this board permits those laws to be violated and either the police or named individuals want to make an issue of it, then somebody is going to get sued and somebody may be arrested. Since I'm the one who lives here, that somebody could very easily be me. No thank you very much. Folks, if you are going to ask me to take the slightest risk just because you want to name names, then you're barking up the wrong tree. Whether you like me or hate me, I don't think very many people would dispute the fact that I put in a hell of a lot of time and effort on this board. I think I'm entitled to do that without people insisting that I take legal risks along with everything else. If it's so important to anyone to name names, then how about opening your own board and you can be the one taking the risks. Now let's see if anyone actually does it or if it's simply easier to criticize me while letting me take the risks while you're out there taking none . . .

Most of the time they don't. Once the media reports the name, now it's fair game. But until then forget it.

If you want to see what I mean about the media declining to mention specific names of venues, this story just came out moments ago on the PATTAYA DAILY NEWS: Photos: http://www.pattayadailynews.com/en/2010/02/13/popular-a-go-go-bar-rai _____ Popular “A Go Go” Bar Raided by Pattaya Police A Human Trafficking Division police taskforce raided an “A Go Go” Bar in South Pattaya on Friday. The raid was enacted over reports of lewd and indecent acts occurring at the establishment. Pattaya 13th January 2010 [PDN]: At approximately 00.10 am Police Colonel Woraphong Thorngphaiboon (Human Trafficking Division Superintendent) and Lieutenant Colonel Shusak Kethong (Human Trafficking Division Deputy Superintendent) along with a team of officers, raided the “A Go Go” bar to find 5 semi naked women dancing indecently in front of foreign customers. The venue was a popular establishment in South Pattaya. The Officers ordered the music to be turn off and the lights to be switched on, before they arrest the women, taking them to the Pattaya Police station. The dancers were charged with public indecency and fined 1,000 baht each before being released. ____________________ Nowhere in the story is the name of the bar mentioned, only its approximate location. That is typical of the way these kinds of news stories are written. Again, if the media won't mention the name of the venue, then there must be a reason. Whether that reason makes any sense to us is irrelevant. For me, the logical conclusion I draw is they don't name the venue because legally they cannot. So, that's the way I handle it here and I'm not about to let anyone put me at risk just so a venue can be named. In the case of the news reports, they have plenty of witnesses and plenty of photos to back up what they say. I have yet to ever see a post on one of these boards that can say the same. Even with that backup the media doesn't name the bars. Someone posting here won't have any backup at all except for hearsay and personal opinion. Very sorry, but that's not enough for me to allow others to put me in jeopardy.

Then we're agreed . . . I think. They can say whatever they want about their experiences. This happened or that happened. But they're going to have to do it without naming the venue if they are going to accuse the venue of criminal behavior without substantiation. I don't have any objection if they want to post that they were short-changed at a specific bar or this boy or that boy wouldn't do what he promised. Those are experiences that can occur at any bar. But when they start naming a bar and saying the owner offered them a 14 year old kid or something similar, that's where I draw the line. Did you notice that the news articles always mention what part of town the bar was in, but they don't mention the specific name of the bar. I have to ask myself why even the Thai media refrains from doing that. So, I'd rather err by overreacting than under-reacting. And, as I said, this changes nothing about how I have always moderated this board. Do you see what we're actually discussing? Here's the headline: "Announcement: GB changes nothing about his moderating policies."

You're right. I don't believe it. Meanwhile, I'm the one living here and I'm the one who would have to face the consequences if it turns out that you're wrong. I don't want to have to find out the hard way. You're not suggesting we start violating Thai law, are you? If indeed you are wrong, what am I supposed to say to the judge? Me: "Well, Your Honor, I believed nothing would happen to me. So did the board owner. After all, I consider this board my baby." Judge: "Your baby? Congratulations, GB. You just gave birth to deportation, a heavy fine, and an all expenses paid holiday at the Bangkok Hilton, meals included." Besides, since when do you want personal attacks, gossip, innuendo, and unsubstantiated rumors posted here? I thought that's what we're supposed to be against. I don't see how any of what I posted would change anything about the way we have always done things on this board in the first place. Ok, if you insist . . .

From what I understand, other boards are saying they will not permit posts that are unsubstantiated harmful gossip. That has been pretty much our policy on this board anyway. We don't want personal attacks on this board. We don't want businesses named and attacked without substantiation. We don't permit businesses, including bars, to be named and attacked because of the possibility of personal vendetta and the fact that Thai law would be violated. I live here. There's no way I'm ever going to permit posts that can place me in legal jeopardy. In other words, the policy of this board already handles the problems brought up on other boards and always has.