CurtisD

I had several trips between now and the end of June, Bangkok to UK and EU return transiting via Doha. All cancelled by airline in the last few days. 

Of course we shouldn’t feel ashamed. What rubbish!
It is not standard issue, but many things are not standard issue and conforming to other people’s norms is tiresome and limiting.
What matters is the same thing that matters in any connection with another person – is it honest, transparent, non-exploitative, respectful, caring, an equal exchange?
If it is not these things, then possibly we should be ashamed of ourselves. If it is these things for both parties, then it is a good thing.   
Many of my friends and family know about my relationship with Bangkok Guy. The initial reaction might be cautious, but after talking with him over Line, hearing me speak of him and seeing his photo around the house, its is accepted and now they ask about him. After seeing that it is a real friendship, they are fine.
I think people react to the vibe that is given off. They might stare initially because Spring/Autumn is not the norm, but once they see a friendship they are fine and they put away their judgmental faculties.
The same question can be put to the Spring part of the equation.
I asked Bangkok Guy what people thought about him having an old Falang boyfriend.
His first reaction was ‘you not old’, a nice piece of loyalty for which I thanked him and put aside. Then came the awkward body language indicating that there was something negative, because as he does not voice negative things it comes out as body language, and ‘I make my own decisions’. So clearly not everyone in his circle thinks our relationship is a good thing.   
He wants an older Falang boyfriend. He told me he had asked Buddha for one. ‘So Buddha lead me to you?’ “Yes” ‘I need to go to temple and talk to Buddha’, at which he looked alarmed until I continued ‘I need to say thank you’ which brought a big smile.
It came out that one of the things he prays for at temple is that I will love him, which led to a penny dropping.
Last time I asked him what he wanted for his birthday we went through the usual cycle from plain silly, because he likes pulling my chain (“Apartment building, that one there, is small, you can buy”. It was not small), through aspirational to see if I will bite (“Motorbike’, no I am too poor), to what he really wants “You give me money to go temple save cow”. Saving cow “Is for Lucky”.
I am afraid that the contrast between ‘motorbike’ and ‘save cow’ struck me as so wide that I almost fell off the bed trying not to laugh, while he watched tolerantly because sometimes with Falang that is all you can do.
The dropping penny was ‘When you save cow, what you pray for?’
A wickedly mischievous grin and with great conviction “Now you love me Long Time”.
I don’t think he is ashamed, and neither am I.

I've been trying this for most of my life, unsuccessfully. I've yet to get or be able to get another guy pregnant....yet. But I won't give up trying......

Having struggled and failed to be straight in my younger days, I've always felt that I was "owed" a younger companion in my dotage. The more salient question is "should younger guys be embarrassed about being seen with us?" The issue of them  being seen as  mbs arises.
I recall the first time I accompanied P. outside Boyztown, not sure how I would feel in his company and how he would feel about being seen with me. it was painless for both and this has remained so for twenty years from Chiang Rai to Krabi.
A significant moment occurred after  three years when we attended a temple fair across the road from Boyztown. He insisted on holding my hand- something we always do now- and I was a surprised that he, a devout Buddhist, chose to do so there of all places. It may have been a significant decision on his part because I remember his participating in some devotions  while I watched. 

I feel a great deal of shame.
And I expect the virile, handsome young men to punish me for my nasty ways. Repeatedly.

Absolutely not. It's not as though my much younger partner and I hold hands while walking down the street (although I have no problem with those who do that) or French kiss while waiting at a Skytrain station (which I have seen gay farang tourists do!) In Thailand I have never once had any problems. When an earlier Thai partner and I visited Venice 20 years ago, he was a little surprised that some others in the breakfast lounge tended to look at us. I asked him at which tables, whereafter I started to spend time staring at the people sitting at those particular tables. They soon stopped!
I am not on any social media platforms other than the gay apps. What people who read them think is their business. I could not be bothered in the slightest.

The age difference between me and my Colombian boyfriend is more than 30 years I love him and he loves me why should we be ashamed ?

Of course we shouldn’t feel ashamed. What rubbish!
It is not standard issue, but many things are not standard issue and conforming to other people’s norms is tiresome and limiting.
What matters is the same thing that matters in any connection with another person – is it honest, transparent, non-exploitative, respectful, caring, an equal exchange?
If it is not these things, then possibly we should be ashamed of ourselves. If it is these things for both parties, then it is a good thing.   
Many of my friends and family know about my relationship with Bangkok Guy. The initial reaction might be cautious, but after talking with him over Line, hearing me speak of him and seeing his photo around the house, its is accepted and now they ask about him. After seeing that it is a real friendship, they are fine.
I think people react to the vibe that is given off. They might stare initially because Spring/Autumn is not the norm, but once they see a friendship they are fine and they put away their judgmental faculties.
The same question can be put to the Spring part of the equation.
I asked Bangkok Guy what people thought about him having an old Falang boyfriend.
His first reaction was ‘you not old’, a nice piece of loyalty for which I thanked him and put aside. Then came the awkward body language indicating that there was something negative, because as he does not voice negative things it comes out as body language, and ‘I make my own decisions’. So clearly not everyone in his circle thinks our relationship is a good thing.   
He wants an older Falang boyfriend. He told me he had asked Buddha for one. ‘So Buddha lead me to you?’ “Yes” ‘I need to go to temple and talk to Buddha’, at which he looked alarmed until I continued ‘I need to say thank you’ which brought a big smile.
It came out that one of the things he prays for at temple is that I will love him, which led to a penny dropping.
Last time I asked him what he wanted for his birthday we went through the usual cycle from plain silly, because he likes pulling my chain (“Apartment building, that one there, is small, you can buy”. It was not small), through aspirational to see if I will bite (“Motorbike’, no I am too poor), to what he really wants “You give me money to go temple save cow”. Saving cow “Is for Lucky”.
I am afraid that the contrast between ‘motorbike’ and ‘save cow’ struck me as so wide that I almost fell off the bed trying not to laugh, while he watched tolerantly because sometimes with Falang that is all you can do.
The dropping penny was ‘When you save cow, what you pray for?’
A wickedly mischievous grin and with great conviction “Now you love me Long Time”.
I don’t think he is ashamed, and neither am I.

Of course we shouldn’t feel ashamed. What rubbish!
It is not standard issue, but many things are not standard issue and conforming to other people’s norms is tiresome and limiting.
What matters is the same thing that matters in any connection with another person – is it honest, transparent, non-exploitative, respectful, caring, an equal exchange?
If it is not these things, then possibly we should be ashamed of ourselves. If it is these things for both parties, then it is a good thing.   
Many of my friends and family know about my relationship with Bangkok Guy. The initial reaction might be cautious, but after talking with him over Line, hearing me speak of him and seeing his photo around the house, its is accepted and now they ask about him. After seeing that it is a real friendship, they are fine.
I think people react to the vibe that is given off. They might stare initially because Spring/Autumn is not the norm, but once they see a friendship they are fine and they put away their judgmental faculties.
The same question can be put to the Spring part of the equation.
I asked Bangkok Guy what people thought about him having an old Falang boyfriend.
His first reaction was ‘you not old’, a nice piece of loyalty for which I thanked him and put aside. Then came the awkward body language indicating that there was something negative, because as he does not voice negative things it comes out as body language, and ‘I make my own decisions’. So clearly not everyone in his circle thinks our relationship is a good thing.   
He wants an older Falang boyfriend. He told me he had asked Buddha for one. ‘So Buddha lead me to you?’ “Yes” ‘I need to go to temple and talk to Buddha’, at which he looked alarmed until I continued ‘I need to say thank you’ which brought a big smile.
It came out that one of the things he prays for at temple is that I will love him, which led to a penny dropping.
Last time I asked him what he wanted for his birthday we went through the usual cycle from plain silly, because he likes pulling my chain (“Apartment building, that one there, is small, you can buy”. It was not small), through aspirational to see if I will bite (“Motorbike’, no I am too poor), to what he really wants “You give me money to go temple save cow”. Saving cow “Is for Lucky”.
I am afraid that the contrast between ‘motorbike’ and ‘save cow’ struck me as so wide that I almost fell off the bed trying not to laugh, while he watched tolerantly because sometimes with Falang that is all you can do.
The dropping penny was ‘When you save cow, what you pray for?’
A wickedly mischievous grin and with great conviction “Now you love me Long Time”.
I don’t think he is ashamed, and neither am I.

Of course we shouldn’t feel ashamed. What rubbish!
It is not standard issue, but many things are not standard issue and conforming to other people’s norms is tiresome and limiting.
What matters is the same thing that matters in any connection with another person – is it honest, transparent, non-exploitative, respectful, caring, an equal exchange?
If it is not these things, then possibly we should be ashamed of ourselves. If it is these things for both parties, then it is a good thing.   
Many of my friends and family know about my relationship with Bangkok Guy. The initial reaction might be cautious, but after talking with him over Line, hearing me speak of him and seeing his photo around the house, its is accepted and now they ask about him. After seeing that it is a real friendship, they are fine.
I think people react to the vibe that is given off. They might stare initially because Spring/Autumn is not the norm, but once they see a friendship they are fine and they put away their judgmental faculties.
The same question can be put to the Spring part of the equation.
I asked Bangkok Guy what people thought about him having an old Falang boyfriend.
His first reaction was ‘you not old’, a nice piece of loyalty for which I thanked him and put aside. Then came the awkward body language indicating that there was something negative, because as he does not voice negative things it comes out as body language, and ‘I make my own decisions’. So clearly not everyone in his circle thinks our relationship is a good thing.   
He wants an older Falang boyfriend. He told me he had asked Buddha for one. ‘So Buddha lead me to you?’ “Yes” ‘I need to go to temple and talk to Buddha’, at which he looked alarmed until I continued ‘I need to say thank you’ which brought a big smile.
It came out that one of the things he prays for at temple is that I will love him, which led to a penny dropping.
Last time I asked him what he wanted for his birthday we went through the usual cycle from plain silly, because he likes pulling my chain (“Apartment building, that one there, is small, you can buy”. It was not small), through aspirational to see if I will bite (“Motorbike’, no I am too poor), to what he really wants “You give me money to go temple save cow”. Saving cow “Is for Lucky”.
I am afraid that the contrast between ‘motorbike’ and ‘save cow’ struck me as so wide that I almost fell off the bed trying not to laugh, while he watched tolerantly because sometimes with Falang that is all you can do.
The dropping penny was ‘When you save cow, what you pray for?’
A wickedly mischievous grin and with great conviction “Now you love me Long Time”.
I don’t think he is ashamed, and neither am I.

Of course we shouldn’t feel ashamed. What rubbish!
It is not standard issue, but many things are not standard issue and conforming to other people’s norms is tiresome and limiting.
What matters is the same thing that matters in any connection with another person – is it honest, transparent, non-exploitative, respectful, caring, an equal exchange?
If it is not these things, then possibly we should be ashamed of ourselves. If it is these things for both parties, then it is a good thing.   
Many of my friends and family know about my relationship with Bangkok Guy. The initial reaction might be cautious, but after talking with him over Line, hearing me speak of him and seeing his photo around the house, its is accepted and now they ask about him. After seeing that it is a real friendship, they are fine.
I think people react to the vibe that is given off. They might stare initially because Spring/Autumn is not the norm, but once they see a friendship they are fine and they put away their judgmental faculties.
The same question can be put to the Spring part of the equation.
I asked Bangkok Guy what people thought about him having an old Falang boyfriend.
His first reaction was ‘you not old’, a nice piece of loyalty for which I thanked him and put aside. Then came the awkward body language indicating that there was something negative, because as he does not voice negative things it comes out as body language, and ‘I make my own decisions’. So clearly not everyone in his circle thinks our relationship is a good thing.   
He wants an older Falang boyfriend. He told me he had asked Buddha for one. ‘So Buddha lead me to you?’ “Yes” ‘I need to go to temple and talk to Buddha’, at which he looked alarmed until I continued ‘I need to say thank you’ which brought a big smile.
It came out that one of the things he prays for at temple is that I will love him, which led to a penny dropping.
Last time I asked him what he wanted for his birthday we went through the usual cycle from plain silly, because he likes pulling my chain (“Apartment building, that one there, is small, you can buy”. It was not small), through aspirational to see if I will bite (“Motorbike’, no I am too poor), to what he really wants “You give me money to go temple save cow”. Saving cow “Is for Lucky”.
I am afraid that the contrast between ‘motorbike’ and ‘save cow’ struck me as so wide that I almost fell off the bed trying not to laugh, while he watched tolerantly because sometimes with Falang that is all you can do.
The dropping penny was ‘When you save cow, what you pray for?’
A wickedly mischievous grin and with great conviction “Now you love me Long Time”.
I don’t think he is ashamed, and neither am I.

Of course we shouldn’t feel ashamed. What rubbish!
It is not standard issue, but many things are not standard issue and conforming to other people’s norms is tiresome and limiting.
What matters is the same thing that matters in any connection with another person – is it honest, transparent, non-exploitative, respectful, caring, an equal exchange?
If it is not these things, then possibly we should be ashamed of ourselves. If it is these things for both parties, then it is a good thing.   
Many of my friends and family know about my relationship with Bangkok Guy. The initial reaction might be cautious, but after talking with him over Line, hearing me speak of him and seeing his photo around the house, its is accepted and now they ask about him. After seeing that it is a real friendship, they are fine.
I think people react to the vibe that is given off. They might stare initially because Spring/Autumn is not the norm, but once they see a friendship they are fine and they put away their judgmental faculties.
The same question can be put to the Spring part of the equation.
I asked Bangkok Guy what people thought about him having an old Falang boyfriend.
His first reaction was ‘you not old’, a nice piece of loyalty for which I thanked him and put aside. Then came the awkward body language indicating that there was something negative, because as he does not voice negative things it comes out as body language, and ‘I make my own decisions’. So clearly not everyone in his circle thinks our relationship is a good thing.   
He wants an older Falang boyfriend. He told me he had asked Buddha for one. ‘So Buddha lead me to you?’ “Yes” ‘I need to go to temple and talk to Buddha’, at which he looked alarmed until I continued ‘I need to say thank you’ which brought a big smile.
It came out that one of the things he prays for at temple is that I will love him, which led to a penny dropping.
Last time I asked him what he wanted for his birthday we went through the usual cycle from plain silly, because he likes pulling my chain (“Apartment building, that one there, is small, you can buy”. It was not small), through aspirational to see if I will bite (“Motorbike’, no I am too poor), to what he really wants “You give me money to go temple save cow”. Saving cow “Is for Lucky”.
I am afraid that the contrast between ‘motorbike’ and ‘save cow’ struck me as so wide that I almost fell off the bed trying not to laugh, while he watched tolerantly because sometimes with Falang that is all you can do.
The dropping penny was ‘When you save cow, what you pray for?’
A wickedly mischievous grin and with great conviction “Now you love me Long Time”.
I don’t think he is ashamed, and neither am I.

Of course we shouldn’t feel ashamed. What rubbish!
It is not standard issue, but many things are not standard issue and conforming to other people’s norms is tiresome and limiting.
What matters is the same thing that matters in any connection with another person – is it honest, transparent, non-exploitative, respectful, caring, an equal exchange?
If it is not these things, then possibly we should be ashamed of ourselves. If it is these things for both parties, then it is a good thing.   
Many of my friends and family know about my relationship with Bangkok Guy. The initial reaction might be cautious, but after talking with him over Line, hearing me speak of him and seeing his photo around the house, its is accepted and now they ask about him. After seeing that it is a real friendship, they are fine.
I think people react to the vibe that is given off. They might stare initially because Spring/Autumn is not the norm, but once they see a friendship they are fine and they put away their judgmental faculties.
The same question can be put to the Spring part of the equation.
I asked Bangkok Guy what people thought about him having an old Falang boyfriend.
His first reaction was ‘you not old’, a nice piece of loyalty for which I thanked him and put aside. Then came the awkward body language indicating that there was something negative, because as he does not voice negative things it comes out as body language, and ‘I make my own decisions’. So clearly not everyone in his circle thinks our relationship is a good thing.   
He wants an older Falang boyfriend. He told me he had asked Buddha for one. ‘So Buddha lead me to you?’ “Yes” ‘I need to go to temple and talk to Buddha’, at which he looked alarmed until I continued ‘I need to say thank you’ which brought a big smile.
It came out that one of the things he prays for at temple is that I will love him, which led to a penny dropping.
Last time I asked him what he wanted for his birthday we went through the usual cycle from plain silly, because he likes pulling my chain (“Apartment building, that one there, is small, you can buy”. It was not small), through aspirational to see if I will bite (“Motorbike’, no I am too poor), to what he really wants “You give me money to go temple save cow”. Saving cow “Is for Lucky”.
I am afraid that the contrast between ‘motorbike’ and ‘save cow’ struck me as so wide that I almost fell off the bed trying not to laugh, while he watched tolerantly because sometimes with Falang that is all you can do.
The dropping penny was ‘When you save cow, what you pray for?’
A wickedly mischievous grin and with great conviction “Now you love me Long Time”.
I don’t think he is ashamed, and neither am I.

Of course we shouldn’t feel ashamed. What rubbish!
It is not standard issue, but many things are not standard issue and conforming to other people’s norms is tiresome and limiting.
What matters is the same thing that matters in any connection with another person – is it honest, transparent, non-exploitative, respectful, caring, an equal exchange?
If it is not these things, then possibly we should be ashamed of ourselves. If it is these things for both parties, then it is a good thing.   
Many of my friends and family know about my relationship with Bangkok Guy. The initial reaction might be cautious, but after talking with him over Line, hearing me speak of him and seeing his photo around the house, its is accepted and now they ask about him. After seeing that it is a real friendship, they are fine.
I think people react to the vibe that is given off. They might stare initially because Spring/Autumn is not the norm, but once they see a friendship they are fine and they put away their judgmental faculties.
The same question can be put to the Spring part of the equation.
I asked Bangkok Guy what people thought about him having an old Falang boyfriend.
His first reaction was ‘you not old’, a nice piece of loyalty for which I thanked him and put aside. Then came the awkward body language indicating that there was something negative, because as he does not voice negative things it comes out as body language, and ‘I make my own decisions’. So clearly not everyone in his circle thinks our relationship is a good thing.   
He wants an older Falang boyfriend. He told me he had asked Buddha for one. ‘So Buddha lead me to you?’ “Yes” ‘I need to go to temple and talk to Buddha’, at which he looked alarmed until I continued ‘I need to say thank you’ which brought a big smile.
It came out that one of the things he prays for at temple is that I will love him, which led to a penny dropping.
Last time I asked him what he wanted for his birthday we went through the usual cycle from plain silly, because he likes pulling my chain (“Apartment building, that one there, is small, you can buy”. It was not small), through aspirational to see if I will bite (“Motorbike’, no I am too poor), to what he really wants “You give me money to go temple save cow”. Saving cow “Is for Lucky”.
I am afraid that the contrast between ‘motorbike’ and ‘save cow’ struck me as so wide that I almost fell off the bed trying not to laugh, while he watched tolerantly because sometimes with Falang that is all you can do.
The dropping penny was ‘When you save cow, what you pray for?’
A wickedly mischievous grin and with great conviction “Now you love me Long Time”.
I don’t think he is ashamed, and neither am I.

Of course we shouldn’t feel ashamed. What rubbish!
It is not standard issue, but many things are not standard issue and conforming to other people’s norms is tiresome and limiting.
What matters is the same thing that matters in any connection with another person – is it honest, transparent, non-exploitative, respectful, caring, an equal exchange?
If it is not these things, then possibly we should be ashamed of ourselves. If it is these things for both parties, then it is a good thing.   
Many of my friends and family know about my relationship with Bangkok Guy. The initial reaction might be cautious, but after talking with him over Line, hearing me speak of him and seeing his photo around the house, its is accepted and now they ask about him. After seeing that it is a real friendship, they are fine.
I think people react to the vibe that is given off. They might stare initially because Spring/Autumn is not the norm, but once they see a friendship they are fine and they put away their judgmental faculties.
The same question can be put to the Spring part of the equation.
I asked Bangkok Guy what people thought about him having an old Falang boyfriend.
His first reaction was ‘you not old’, a nice piece of loyalty for which I thanked him and put aside. Then came the awkward body language indicating that there was something negative, because as he does not voice negative things it comes out as body language, and ‘I make my own decisions’. So clearly not everyone in his circle thinks our relationship is a good thing.   
He wants an older Falang boyfriend. He told me he had asked Buddha for one. ‘So Buddha lead me to you?’ “Yes” ‘I need to go to temple and talk to Buddha’, at which he looked alarmed until I continued ‘I need to say thank you’ which brought a big smile.
It came out that one of the things he prays for at temple is that I will love him, which led to a penny dropping.
Last time I asked him what he wanted for his birthday we went through the usual cycle from plain silly, because he likes pulling my chain (“Apartment building, that one there, is small, you can buy”. It was not small), through aspirational to see if I will bite (“Motorbike’, no I am too poor), to what he really wants “You give me money to go temple save cow”. Saving cow “Is for Lucky”.
I am afraid that the contrast between ‘motorbike’ and ‘save cow’ struck me as so wide that I almost fell off the bed trying not to laugh, while he watched tolerantly because sometimes with Falang that is all you can do.
The dropping penny was ‘When you save cow, what you pray for?’
A wickedly mischievous grin and with great conviction “Now you love me Long Time”.
I don’t think he is ashamed, and neither am I.

Of course we shouldn’t feel ashamed. What rubbish!
It is not standard issue, but many things are not standard issue and conforming to other people’s norms is tiresome and limiting.
What matters is the same thing that matters in any connection with another person – is it honest, transparent, non-exploitative, respectful, caring, an equal exchange?
If it is not these things, then possibly we should be ashamed of ourselves. If it is these things for both parties, then it is a good thing.   
Many of my friends and family know about my relationship with Bangkok Guy. The initial reaction might be cautious, but after talking with him over Line, hearing me speak of him and seeing his photo around the house, its is accepted and now they ask about him. After seeing that it is a real friendship, they are fine.
I think people react to the vibe that is given off. They might stare initially because Spring/Autumn is not the norm, but once they see a friendship they are fine and they put away their judgmental faculties.
The same question can be put to the Spring part of the equation.
I asked Bangkok Guy what people thought about him having an old Falang boyfriend.
His first reaction was ‘you not old’, a nice piece of loyalty for which I thanked him and put aside. Then came the awkward body language indicating that there was something negative, because as he does not voice negative things it comes out as body language, and ‘I make my own decisions’. So clearly not everyone in his circle thinks our relationship is a good thing.   
He wants an older Falang boyfriend. He told me he had asked Buddha for one. ‘So Buddha lead me to you?’ “Yes” ‘I need to go to temple and talk to Buddha’, at which he looked alarmed until I continued ‘I need to say thank you’ which brought a big smile.
It came out that one of the things he prays for at temple is that I will love him, which led to a penny dropping.
Last time I asked him what he wanted for his birthday we went through the usual cycle from plain silly, because he likes pulling my chain (“Apartment building, that one there, is small, you can buy”. It was not small), through aspirational to see if I will bite (“Motorbike’, no I am too poor), to what he really wants “You give me money to go temple save cow”. Saving cow “Is for Lucky”.
I am afraid that the contrast between ‘motorbike’ and ‘save cow’ struck me as so wide that I almost fell off the bed trying not to laugh, while he watched tolerantly because sometimes with Falang that is all you can do.
The dropping penny was ‘When you save cow, what you pray for?’
A wickedly mischievous grin and with great conviction “Now you love me Long Time”.
I don’t think he is ashamed, and neither am I.

We stayed at the Santhiya Tree Koh Chang Resort and can recommend it.
Long beach with lots of alternatives for dining or a drink. All very relaxed. Even went to the local fair and Morlam concert. 
Nothing gay beyond the two of us, although we were not looking so may have missed it. 
Don't remember sighting any Russians. 
We pre-booked transport to and from the airport through Ian-on-Koh-Chang and in addition to making life easy it also meant we caught the ferry we needed to catch the return flight. The que of cars backed up for miles and our driver just drove past them all to a separate 'first boarding' que.

We stayed at the Santhiya Tree Koh Chang Resort and can recommend it.
Long beach with lots of alternatives for dining or a drink. All very relaxed. Even went to the local fair and Morlam concert. 
Nothing gay beyond the two of us, although we were not looking so may have missed it. 
Don't remember sighting any Russians. 
We pre-booked transport to and from the airport through Ian-on-Koh-Chang and in addition to making life easy it also meant we caught the ferry we needed to catch the return flight. The que of cars backed up for miles and our driver just drove past them all to a separate 'first boarding' que.

I am continuing this thread, but the turn of the discussion might better fit under ‘Can we ever understand the Thais?’
After some time back in Bangkok it is clear that the issue with the apartment is a little bit Chinese, but a lot more family.
Getting that clarity has been an entertainingly circular process because of Bangkok Guy’s indirectness and his chronic inability to work out his priorities and make quick decisions.
It is just as well that I like him and accept the non-linear nature of his decision making, so that I find the process of discovering what he is actually thinking entertaining.
First day back we spent a couple of hours looking at apartments on-line and it seemed to me the process was going in circles. Bangkok Guy was just not consistent in what he seemed to want.
So out with the spreadsheet to tabulate what we both prioritized in an apartment.
The obvious difference is that I prioritize the amenities – swimming pool, meeting room – and he doesn’t, and I am very flexible on location while he wants an apartment along a defined but longish stretch of the metro because he has friends in the area.
The less obvious bit was the permissible Chinese representation and the size/# of bedrooms.
It was soon clear that while a high Chinese representation was not desirable, the Chinese presence was not the real issue. Apartment size trumped Chinese and apartments in older buildings were larger and so more desirable than smaller apartments in newer buildings with more amenities.
Then the first brick dropped.
Bangkok Guy’s mother is moving back to Issan and his sister needs somewhere to stay. It is his responsibility to make sure she has somewhere and to keep an eye on her. “I not have choice”.
Ok, but then we need two bedrooms, which fits into the budget, so no problem. Well a bit of one as I would prefer just the two of us, but his sister is pleasant and he feels responsible.
‘Not need two bedrooms, sister can sleep in living room. Two bed too expensive. Just need larger apartment’.
No, we need two bedrooms. I’m not walking around your sister and I need a space to work.
I pointed to one of the apartments that he had first shown me – modern building, all the amenities I want and two bedrooms within budget – this one works.
But somehow now it didn’t work, older buildings with large 1 bedroom apartments were inexplicably better, so we left it in illogical suspension for a day.
When I don’t understand something with Bangkok Guy, give it some time and the fog usually clears.
At the end of a day in Silom/Sathorn for shopping and dining and jazz Bangkok Guy announced that I needed to live in Sathorn. “It where shopping and restaurants and jazz is, you like. And White People live (he always uses White People, not Falang to refer to Europeans)”.
But what about you, it is not the area you want, it is long way from friends?    ‘I take metro’.
“Also is too far from (sister’s) university. She can have own apartment near university and we live Sathorn”
But don’t you have to supervise her?  Some squirming body language from Bangkok Guy.
I need you to be happy, can’t get new apartment and then you worry about sister and want to change again. Finding accommodation for sister make you happy?   “Yes”
Have sister live with us make you happy?   A guilty look and “Happy but only a little bit”
Ok, so we can get two apartments, one for your sister and one for us, or we can get one apartment with two bedrooms. Cost same, you choose (It does cost the same but our apartment is much better than sister’s).
“Cannot choose, you have to choose”.
And the second brick drops.
Bangkok Guy wants it to be just the two of us, but he can’t conscientiously make that decision.
But if I, a White Person, need to live in Sathorn with other White People, then that is too far from university and it becomes logical for sister to have her own apartment. She has been housed, but not chaperoned, for reasons outside of his control.
Coincidentally Sathorn has a stock of older larger 1 bedroom apartments, who knew?
 In a non-linear, indirect and indecisive way Bangkok Guy had been building his way to this solution.
He is now happily looking for apartments in Sathorn, nest building for his preferred number, 2.
His sister is a solidly sensible young woman, who happens to like other women, and so probably does not need a chaperone.

I am continuing this thread, but the turn of the discussion might better fit under ‘Can we ever understand the Thais?’
After some time back in Bangkok it is clear that the issue with the apartment is a little bit Chinese, but a lot more family.
Getting that clarity has been an entertainingly circular process because of Bangkok Guy’s indirectness and his chronic inability to work out his priorities and make quick decisions.
It is just as well that I like him and accept the non-linear nature of his decision making, so that I find the process of discovering what he is actually thinking entertaining.
First day back we spent a couple of hours looking at apartments on-line and it seemed to me the process was going in circles. Bangkok Guy was just not consistent in what he seemed to want.
So out with the spreadsheet to tabulate what we both prioritized in an apartment.
The obvious difference is that I prioritize the amenities – swimming pool, meeting room – and he doesn’t, and I am very flexible on location while he wants an apartment along a defined but longish stretch of the metro because he has friends in the area.
The less obvious bit was the permissible Chinese representation and the size/# of bedrooms.
It was soon clear that while a high Chinese representation was not desirable, the Chinese presence was not the real issue. Apartment size trumped Chinese and apartments in older buildings were larger and so more desirable than smaller apartments in newer buildings with more amenities.
Then the first brick dropped.
Bangkok Guy’s mother is moving back to Issan and his sister needs somewhere to stay. It is his responsibility to make sure she has somewhere and to keep an eye on her. “I not have choice”.
Ok, but then we need two bedrooms, which fits into the budget, so no problem. Well a bit of one as I would prefer just the two of us, but his sister is pleasant and he feels responsible.
‘Not need two bedrooms, sister can sleep in living room. Two bed too expensive. Just need larger apartment’.
No, we need two bedrooms. I’m not walking around your sister and I need a space to work.
I pointed to one of the apartments that he had first shown me – modern building, all the amenities I want and two bedrooms within budget – this one works.
But somehow now it didn’t work, older buildings with large 1 bedroom apartments were inexplicably better, so we left it in illogical suspension for a day.
When I don’t understand something with Bangkok Guy, give it some time and the fog usually clears.
At the end of a day in Silom/Sathorn for shopping and dining and jazz Bangkok Guy announced that I needed to live in Sathorn. “It where shopping and restaurants and jazz is, you like. And White People live (he always uses White People, not Falang to refer to Europeans)”.
But what about you, it is not the area you want, it is long way from friends?    ‘I take metro’.
“Also is too far from (sister’s) university. She can have own apartment near university and we live Sathorn”
But don’t you have to supervise her?  Some squirming body language from Bangkok Guy.
I need you to be happy, can’t get new apartment and then you worry about sister and want to change again. Finding accommodation for sister make you happy?   “Yes”
Have sister live with us make you happy?   A guilty look and “Happy but only a little bit”
Ok, so we can get two apartments, one for your sister and one for us, or we can get one apartment with two bedrooms. Cost same, you choose (It does cost the same but our apartment is much better than sister’s).
“Cannot choose, you have to choose”.
And the second brick drops.
Bangkok Guy wants it to be just the two of us, but he can’t conscientiously make that decision.
But if I, a White Person, need to live in Sathorn with other White People, then that is too far from university and it becomes logical for sister to have her own apartment. She has been housed, but not chaperoned, for reasons outside of his control.
Coincidentally Sathorn has a stock of older larger 1 bedroom apartments, who knew?
 In a non-linear, indirect and indecisive way Bangkok Guy had been building his way to this solution.
He is now happily looking for apartments in Sathorn, nest building for his preferred number, 2.
His sister is a solidly sensible young woman, who happens to like other women, and so probably does not need a chaperone.

I am continuing this thread, but the turn of the discussion might better fit under ‘Can we ever understand the Thais?’
After some time back in Bangkok it is clear that the issue with the apartment is a little bit Chinese, but a lot more family.
Getting that clarity has been an entertainingly circular process because of Bangkok Guy’s indirectness and his chronic inability to work out his priorities and make quick decisions.
It is just as well that I like him and accept the non-linear nature of his decision making, so that I find the process of discovering what he is actually thinking entertaining.
First day back we spent a couple of hours looking at apartments on-line and it seemed to me the process was going in circles. Bangkok Guy was just not consistent in what he seemed to want.
So out with the spreadsheet to tabulate what we both prioritized in an apartment.
The obvious difference is that I prioritize the amenities – swimming pool, meeting room – and he doesn’t, and I am very flexible on location while he wants an apartment along a defined but longish stretch of the metro because he has friends in the area.
The less obvious bit was the permissible Chinese representation and the size/# of bedrooms.
It was soon clear that while a high Chinese representation was not desirable, the Chinese presence was not the real issue. Apartment size trumped Chinese and apartments in older buildings were larger and so more desirable than smaller apartments in newer buildings with more amenities.
Then the first brick dropped.
Bangkok Guy’s mother is moving back to Issan and his sister needs somewhere to stay. It is his responsibility to make sure she has somewhere and to keep an eye on her. “I not have choice”.
Ok, but then we need two bedrooms, which fits into the budget, so no problem. Well a bit of one as I would prefer just the two of us, but his sister is pleasant and he feels responsible.
‘Not need two bedrooms, sister can sleep in living room. Two bed too expensive. Just need larger apartment’.
No, we need two bedrooms. I’m not walking around your sister and I need a space to work.
I pointed to one of the apartments that he had first shown me – modern building, all the amenities I want and two bedrooms within budget – this one works.
But somehow now it didn’t work, older buildings with large 1 bedroom apartments were inexplicably better, so we left it in illogical suspension for a day.
When I don’t understand something with Bangkok Guy, give it some time and the fog usually clears.
At the end of a day in Silom/Sathorn for shopping and dining and jazz Bangkok Guy announced that I needed to live in Sathorn. “It where shopping and restaurants and jazz is, you like. And White People live (he always uses White People, not Falang to refer to Europeans)”.
But what about you, it is not the area you want, it is long way from friends?    ‘I take metro’.
“Also is too far from (sister’s) university. She can have own apartment near university and we live Sathorn”
But don’t you have to supervise her?  Some squirming body language from Bangkok Guy.
I need you to be happy, can’t get new apartment and then you worry about sister and want to change again. Finding accommodation for sister make you happy?   “Yes”
Have sister live with us make you happy?   A guilty look and “Happy but only a little bit”
Ok, so we can get two apartments, one for your sister and one for us, or we can get one apartment with two bedrooms. Cost same, you choose (It does cost the same but our apartment is much better than sister’s).
“Cannot choose, you have to choose”.
And the second brick drops.
Bangkok Guy wants it to be just the two of us, but he can’t conscientiously make that decision.
But if I, a White Person, need to live in Sathorn with other White People, then that is too far from university and it becomes logical for sister to have her own apartment. She has been housed, but not chaperoned, for reasons outside of his control.
Coincidentally Sathorn has a stock of older larger 1 bedroom apartments, who knew?
 In a non-linear, indirect and indecisive way Bangkok Guy had been building his way to this solution.
He is now happily looking for apartments in Sathorn, nest building for his preferred number, 2.
His sister is a solidly sensible young woman, who happens to like other women, and so probably does not need a chaperone.

I am continuing this thread, but the turn of the discussion might better fit under ‘Can we ever understand the Thais?’
After some time back in Bangkok it is clear that the issue with the apartment is a little bit Chinese, but a lot more family.
Getting that clarity has been an entertainingly circular process because of Bangkok Guy’s indirectness and his chronic inability to work out his priorities and make quick decisions.
It is just as well that I like him and accept the non-linear nature of his decision making, so that I find the process of discovering what he is actually thinking entertaining.
First day back we spent a couple of hours looking at apartments on-line and it seemed to me the process was going in circles. Bangkok Guy was just not consistent in what he seemed to want.
So out with the spreadsheet to tabulate what we both prioritized in an apartment.
The obvious difference is that I prioritize the amenities – swimming pool, meeting room – and he doesn’t, and I am very flexible on location while he wants an apartment along a defined but longish stretch of the metro because he has friends in the area.
The less obvious bit was the permissible Chinese representation and the size/# of bedrooms.
It was soon clear that while a high Chinese representation was not desirable, the Chinese presence was not the real issue. Apartment size trumped Chinese and apartments in older buildings were larger and so more desirable than smaller apartments in newer buildings with more amenities.
Then the first brick dropped.
Bangkok Guy’s mother is moving back to Issan and his sister needs somewhere to stay. It is his responsibility to make sure she has somewhere and to keep an eye on her. “I not have choice”.
Ok, but then we need two bedrooms, which fits into the budget, so no problem. Well a bit of one as I would prefer just the two of us, but his sister is pleasant and he feels responsible.
‘Not need two bedrooms, sister can sleep in living room. Two bed too expensive. Just need larger apartment’.
No, we need two bedrooms. I’m not walking around your sister and I need a space to work.
I pointed to one of the apartments that he had first shown me – modern building, all the amenities I want and two bedrooms within budget – this one works.
But somehow now it didn’t work, older buildings with large 1 bedroom apartments were inexplicably better, so we left it in illogical suspension for a day.
When I don’t understand something with Bangkok Guy, give it some time and the fog usually clears.
At the end of a day in Silom/Sathorn for shopping and dining and jazz Bangkok Guy announced that I needed to live in Sathorn. “It where shopping and restaurants and jazz is, you like. And White People live (he always uses White People, not Falang to refer to Europeans)”.
But what about you, it is not the area you want, it is long way from friends?    ‘I take metro’.
“Also is too far from (sister’s) university. She can have own apartment near university and we live Sathorn”
But don’t you have to supervise her?  Some squirming body language from Bangkok Guy.
I need you to be happy, can’t get new apartment and then you worry about sister and want to change again. Finding accommodation for sister make you happy?   “Yes”
Have sister live with us make you happy?   A guilty look and “Happy but only a little bit”
Ok, so we can get two apartments, one for your sister and one for us, or we can get one apartment with two bedrooms. Cost same, you choose (It does cost the same but our apartment is much better than sister’s).
“Cannot choose, you have to choose”.
And the second brick drops.
Bangkok Guy wants it to be just the two of us, but he can’t conscientiously make that decision.
But if I, a White Person, need to live in Sathorn with other White People, then that is too far from university and it becomes logical for sister to have her own apartment. She has been housed, but not chaperoned, for reasons outside of his control.
Coincidentally Sathorn has a stock of older larger 1 bedroom apartments, who knew?
 In a non-linear, indirect and indecisive way Bangkok Guy had been building his way to this solution.
He is now happily looking for apartments in Sathorn, nest building for his preferred number, 2.
His sister is a solidly sensible young woman, who happens to like other women, and so probably does not need a chaperone.

I am continuing this thread, but the turn of the discussion might better fit under ‘Can we ever understand the Thais?’
After some time back in Bangkok it is clear that the issue with the apartment is a little bit Chinese, but a lot more family.
Getting that clarity has been an entertainingly circular process because of Bangkok Guy’s indirectness and his chronic inability to work out his priorities and make quick decisions.
It is just as well that I like him and accept the non-linear nature of his decision making, so that I find the process of discovering what he is actually thinking entertaining.
First day back we spent a couple of hours looking at apartments on-line and it seemed to me the process was going in circles. Bangkok Guy was just not consistent in what he seemed to want.
So out with the spreadsheet to tabulate what we both prioritized in an apartment.
The obvious difference is that I prioritize the amenities – swimming pool, meeting room – and he doesn’t, and I am very flexible on location while he wants an apartment along a defined but longish stretch of the metro because he has friends in the area.
The less obvious bit was the permissible Chinese representation and the size/# of bedrooms.
It was soon clear that while a high Chinese representation was not desirable, the Chinese presence was not the real issue. Apartment size trumped Chinese and apartments in older buildings were larger and so more desirable than smaller apartments in newer buildings with more amenities.
Then the first brick dropped.
Bangkok Guy’s mother is moving back to Issan and his sister needs somewhere to stay. It is his responsibility to make sure she has somewhere and to keep an eye on her. “I not have choice”.
Ok, but then we need two bedrooms, which fits into the budget, so no problem. Well a bit of one as I would prefer just the two of us, but his sister is pleasant and he feels responsible.
‘Not need two bedrooms, sister can sleep in living room. Two bed too expensive. Just need larger apartment’.
No, we need two bedrooms. I’m not walking around your sister and I need a space to work.
I pointed to one of the apartments that he had first shown me – modern building, all the amenities I want and two bedrooms within budget – this one works.
But somehow now it didn’t work, older buildings with large 1 bedroom apartments were inexplicably better, so we left it in illogical suspension for a day.
When I don’t understand something with Bangkok Guy, give it some time and the fog usually clears.
At the end of a day in Silom/Sathorn for shopping and dining and jazz Bangkok Guy announced that I needed to live in Sathorn. “It where shopping and restaurants and jazz is, you like. And White People live (he always uses White People, not Falang to refer to Europeans)”.
But what about you, it is not the area you want, it is long way from friends?    ‘I take metro’.
“Also is too far from (sister’s) university. She can have own apartment near university and we live Sathorn”
But don’t you have to supervise her?  Some squirming body language from Bangkok Guy.
I need you to be happy, can’t get new apartment and then you worry about sister and want to change again. Finding accommodation for sister make you happy?   “Yes”
Have sister live with us make you happy?   A guilty look and “Happy but only a little bit”
Ok, so we can get two apartments, one for your sister and one for us, or we can get one apartment with two bedrooms. Cost same, you choose (It does cost the same but our apartment is much better than sister’s).
“Cannot choose, you have to choose”.
And the second brick drops.
Bangkok Guy wants it to be just the two of us, but he can’t conscientiously make that decision.
But if I, a White Person, need to live in Sathorn with other White People, then that is too far from university and it becomes logical for sister to have her own apartment. She has been housed, but not chaperoned, for reasons outside of his control.
Coincidentally Sathorn has a stock of older larger 1 bedroom apartments, who knew?
 In a non-linear, indirect and indecisive way Bangkok Guy had been building his way to this solution.
He is now happily looking for apartments in Sathorn, nest building for his preferred number, 2.
His sister is a solidly sensible young woman, who happens to like other women, and so probably does not need a chaperone.

I am continuing this thread, but the turn of the discussion might better fit under ‘Can we ever understand the Thais?’
After some time back in Bangkok it is clear that the issue with the apartment is a little bit Chinese, but a lot more family.
Getting that clarity has been an entertainingly circular process because of Bangkok Guy’s indirectness and his chronic inability to work out his priorities and make quick decisions.
It is just as well that I like him and accept the non-linear nature of his decision making, so that I find the process of discovering what he is actually thinking entertaining.
First day back we spent a couple of hours looking at apartments on-line and it seemed to me the process was going in circles. Bangkok Guy was just not consistent in what he seemed to want.
So out with the spreadsheet to tabulate what we both prioritized in an apartment.
The obvious difference is that I prioritize the amenities – swimming pool, meeting room – and he doesn’t, and I am very flexible on location while he wants an apartment along a defined but longish stretch of the metro because he has friends in the area.
The less obvious bit was the permissible Chinese representation and the size/# of bedrooms.
It was soon clear that while a high Chinese representation was not desirable, the Chinese presence was not the real issue. Apartment size trumped Chinese and apartments in older buildings were larger and so more desirable than smaller apartments in newer buildings with more amenities.
Then the first brick dropped.
Bangkok Guy’s mother is moving back to Issan and his sister needs somewhere to stay. It is his responsibility to make sure she has somewhere and to keep an eye on her. “I not have choice”.
Ok, but then we need two bedrooms, which fits into the budget, so no problem. Well a bit of one as I would prefer just the two of us, but his sister is pleasant and he feels responsible.
‘Not need two bedrooms, sister can sleep in living room. Two bed too expensive. Just need larger apartment’.
No, we need two bedrooms. I’m not walking around your sister and I need a space to work.
I pointed to one of the apartments that he had first shown me – modern building, all the amenities I want and two bedrooms within budget – this one works.
But somehow now it didn’t work, older buildings with large 1 bedroom apartments were inexplicably better, so we left it in illogical suspension for a day.
When I don’t understand something with Bangkok Guy, give it some time and the fog usually clears.
At the end of a day in Silom/Sathorn for shopping and dining and jazz Bangkok Guy announced that I needed to live in Sathorn. “It where shopping and restaurants and jazz is, you like. And White People live (he always uses White People, not Falang to refer to Europeans)”.
But what about you, it is not the area you want, it is long way from friends?    ‘I take metro’.
“Also is too far from (sister’s) university. She can have own apartment near university and we live Sathorn”
But don’t you have to supervise her?  Some squirming body language from Bangkok Guy.
I need you to be happy, can’t get new apartment and then you worry about sister and want to change again. Finding accommodation for sister make you happy?   “Yes”
Have sister live with us make you happy?   A guilty look and “Happy but only a little bit”
Ok, so we can get two apartments, one for your sister and one for us, or we can get one apartment with two bedrooms. Cost same, you choose (It does cost the same but our apartment is much better than sister’s).
“Cannot choose, you have to choose”.
And the second brick drops.
Bangkok Guy wants it to be just the two of us, but he can’t conscientiously make that decision.
But if I, a White Person, need to live in Sathorn with other White People, then that is too far from university and it becomes logical for sister to have her own apartment. She has been housed, but not chaperoned, for reasons outside of his control.
Coincidentally Sathorn has a stock of older larger 1 bedroom apartments, who knew?
 In a non-linear, indirect and indecisive way Bangkok Guy had been building his way to this solution.
He is now happily looking for apartments in Sathorn, nest building for his preferred number, 2.
His sister is a solidly sensible young woman, who happens to like other women, and so probably does not need a chaperone.

You have just captured saving face reality for thais in your story perfectly. What bangkok guy wants and what he must do can be very diff. While his family and sister might not be able to tolerate him not staying with his sister as the mother wants, if it comes from you, a farang, who has been providing to the family, it becomes more tolerable. You have no obligation like what bangkok guy is expected to do and its unfair to ask from you to do the same. Indirectly, bangkok guy wants you to take the blame for his inability to stay with the sister, but he went around with it by not choosing the ideal apartment for that. 
If you proceed with 2 bedroom apartment, the sister might be tempted or obligated to stay with you guyse forever. Staying in living room might gives a reason for the sister to find her own place sooner as well. Hence the insistent on one bedroom in the beginning, with a larger living room, to show that he at least thinks of his sister. 
Not sure if i made sense of bangkok guy ways of thinking. But from your story, this is what i understood lol