Londoner

Thirty years ago, a few months after finally expressing my sexuality following years of denial, I began experimenting with London rent-boys with limited satisfaction. And I then heard about the Amsterdam scene, a scene in which I could maintain my privacy and explore its "houses of boys". In one of them, Blue Boy, near the end of my one hour allotted time my partner and I had a few minutes before the inevitable phone call would end the encounter. He told me about Pattaya. Intrigued, I explored the travel section in Foyles, London and found a guide; "Thai Scene "by MIchael Nottcut. I immediately booked a stay at the Royal Garden Hotel and, if you can forgive the cliche, my life changed. I began by travelling here for that summer vacation. I was able to add further trips, two of which were for only five nights owing to work commitments: I was more resilient in those days. Pattaya had become so important to me that I decided to take early retirement. Three or four trips a year ensued. Once there were five. For nine years I revelled in the freedom and the sheer excitement of the butterfly-scene. Older posters will remember the lure of the Boyztown of that period. Then my life changed again, totally unexpectedly, and I met someone. I had my doubts; my intention had been to continue my easy life of one or two night stands, responsibility -free, playing the field, different guys, new experiences. That was in 2004 and since then, one person and one place has dominated my life. Twice I have been close to relocation and twice I have decided to continue to be a traveler not a resident; I remain a Londoner. I wonder; can other Pattaya-lovers on this forum recall why, when and how they "found" our city? What was it that called them back, again and again? or perhaps, they made the decision to remain here, unlike me? I recall that Amsterdam meeting in Blue Boy as though it were yesterday. A handsome Black British guy in the space of five minutes changed my life with a few causal remarks to waste five minutes. And he'll never know how important it has been to me.

.....and the pricing? And what about the Pets' Hotel ( is that the correct name?) next door. Any information? It's reassuring to see the vacant sites being filled. The new Indian restaurant in the same location apparently has yet to open. Many changes. The launderette that was next to Agate has gone and a massage joint has returned. How many launderettes are now located within two hundred meters? six? Why the sudden increase?

Yes....thanks. David and a mate did a drag-act there. In fact , the first time I met him he was in full drag, something I found rather alarming - not my cup of tea- but I later found him to be a good guy. He was one of that generation that built Boyztown and the Pattaya scene generally after the earlier work of the likes of Jim Lumsden and Michael Burchill. It is right that they should be remembered on this forum.

Wasn't "David in Pattaya" the same David that ran a small bar near (not in) Sunee. Soi Yensabai? And then later Oscars in Boyztown? A nice guy, I recall; and also a performer. He was extremely kind to an American friend of mine who lived nearby and suffered a very cruel illness in the last months of his life. If so, he passed away about seven years ago.

One of my most amusing memories was of being in a Sunee beer bar when word got around that the police were on the way. The doors of the go-go bars- I particularly remember Sundance- were suddenly flung open and the dancers rushed-out, some struggling to put on their trousers as they ran down the soi. Not an easy task. It was like a scene from a French farce. The police never arrived.

I recall Spartacus providing a warning attached to some entries.... "older guys not welcome here." One of the great things about Thailand's section is that it seldom appeared there. If at all.

For me it was MIchael Notcutt's "Thai Scene." Not only listings, including Chiang Mai, but sensible advice on offing and on Thai culture. And a cute guy on the cover.

In Pattaya, where the bars are closer together and the guys live nearby and often socialise after hours, a "bad" falang quickly wins an unenviable reputation, one which follows him from bar to bar. No mamasan would force a guy to accept an off from such a customer. At the same time, and I've said this before, if you speak to ex- bar boys who enjoyed long careers in their profession, you will likely hear very positive reviews of how they were treated.

Apologies.

If you read Michael J. Burchill's book on the early days of the Pattaya gay scene ("Boyztown 1982- 2006"), you can understand just how important farang bar-owners have been in the development of the scene. We have a lot to thank Jim Lumsden, Michael himself and a few others for all that we have enjoyed over the years.

PeterRS's post astounded me; it's almost as if we were in that bar together, that same night. In fact, I was going to post a similar comment but decided not to add to my existing one. Yes, I too was furious when I saw this happening because that night I was in the market. Furthermore, the guy smoked a cigarette, the smoke of which in that small room was impossible to escape. And yes, I learnt (I think from one of the guys, I assume) that he was an owner. Dame Edna would have described a shared memory such as this as "spooky". Perhaps we were the "two customers"?

I liked Solid, too. I suspect that I was more relaxed in a smaller environment, particularly one that was not dominated by loud music. It must be the smallest enclosed bar I ever visited, anywhere, and it never seemed to have more than about ten guys. They were definitely my type and being so close to Tarntawan, it was convenient; I was rather shy about walking back to a hotel with a go go boy. I'd probably be even more so now! I remember the mamasan; his jacket seemed two sizes too big for him. I never spent more than three or four days in Bangkok before moving on to Pattaya and so the number of my visits to Solid must be small. After it closed, I recall walking through Soi Twilight and being hailed by this ex-mamasan, now installed in an even smaller host bar. Astonishingly, he remembered me.

Sadly, that is the my experience as far as my family is concerned. And it is truly distressing to observe, I too would not wish my partner to have to devote his life to looking after me. What , very approximately of course, is the cost of being cared-for in those Chiang Mai homes?

I like visiting Thailand. I like living in London. I like P being happy working his farm in the north. I like him fulfilling his responsibilities towards his ageing parents. I don't like the idea of his life being centred entirely around me and my needs. Nor him living what would be a lonely urban life in London. I think I have mentioned before that, when our marriage ceremony was stymied by Thai bureaucracy and we sat in the taxi on our way back to the hotel from the Registry Office, stunned, he said to me, "What we have, we have." A predictably Buddhist response to disappointment. He was right.

A year ago I was close enough to look at houses in Jomtien. And how much money I'd "make" by selling my house in London, one of the most expensive places in the world. I even had the valuation done. But there are other issues, many other issues. But yes, I can assure you that I see the advantages. For both of us.

Three times a year in my case and worth every penny. None of the pleasures are routine, even the seemingly humdrum, such as having breakfast with my partner instead of on my own. I wonder if they would continue to be so were I a resident.

Welcome.

Plenty of Russian families stay at The Agate. As far as younger guys are concerned, an old friend, now in his forties, told me a few years back that Serene in BT was a popular meeting place for young Russians. But now? things change quickly there. Apps?

Relocation for most of us is a one-way ticket.

Sometimes. Today it has been fine.

One of the reasons I decided against relocation (one of many) is that I wouldn't have Thailand to look forward to.

A number of YouTube videos have appeared recently which can only be described as warnings against relocation. The issues appear to relate to visas and banking, as well as a rise in costs. The issues raised by bkkm2648 and Mavica have also been mentioned. Is there general dissatisfaction in the expat community?

I'm intrigued by the relatively-recent arrival of Indian tourists; Indian men, that is....how often do we see Indian women or children in South Pattaya? I wonder if their spending-power is a good deal less than that of other nationalities and the visa change perhaps reflects this? We seldom see them in up-market malls like T21 and Central while the many Indian restaurants are invariably empty when we drive past them at night; the guys seem to eat in street-side venues. I assume that they attend the new Indian nightclubs in the Walking Street area but during the daytime there seems to be a great deal of hanging around just outside the hotels. You seldom see an Indian tourist on his own, or even with just one companion. Are they punters in the go go bars? or on the apps? are they beach-lovers? do they take the day trips to the islands and other tourist places like Nong Nooch? why do they all seem to be between the ages of about thirty and fifty? are they long-stayers or is Pattaya enjoyed for weekends and so on? It is, after all, not that far from some parts of India. Many questions, no answers.

The Agate used to attract large numbers of very short-stay Chinese visitors before Covid. They'd arrive in coaches in the evening and then depart after breakfast. You may have missed them if you a were a late riser or favoured late nights! Perhaps they were on their way to other destinations or perhaps the nearby airport? I remember staying in a hotel in Seminyak, Bali, which seemed to serve the same or similar function.