Londoner

In that period, Pattaya has changed enormously. The north end of Beach Road which for many of us was our first view of touristy Pattaya has changed beyond recognition. Gone is the seemingly endless array of girlie bars and in its place are smart hotels, high-end restaurants and huge malls. It no longer feels like a resort, let alone one which was once a magnet for single men seeking sex, and more like a city. Perhaps not Bangkok but huge and modern. And the patrons? not those single western men seeking company but Asian families staying in smart hotels like Centre Point. Younger, more affluent. And they aren't buying suggestive T-shirts but designer goods. You may still recognise South Pattaya; it is more down-market, the lights aren't so bright and the crowds thinner. Instead of gay visitors, the visitors are Indian men, seeking I know not what. The relative shabbiness as you arrive in Second Road is noticeable. Even the once "number one" shopping mall, Royal Garden is quiet compared to the likes of T21 or Central. My partner and I prefer the new Pattaya but with reservations. The truth is that there was sort of naughty glamour about the old Boyztown and Sunee; it was "our" place. For some of us, the first environment where we could truly be ourselves. In my case, that was when I was forty-six years old. And I met others like myself. For him, when he arrived as a country-boy from the rural north aged twenty-one, the excitement, the money and most of all the camaraderie ensured that it was the happiest period of his life. Today, we walk around T21 and Central, enjoy its best restaurants and, in my case, people-watching: and does anyone care about two gay guys, arm in arm or sometimes holding hands, even though we are an unusual pairing? No.

He lives with three dogs...four until recently when one was killed by a cobra while she defended his farm. The perils of rural Thailand!

Agreed; this should be remembered in all our dealings with Thais on the scene. I remember being more than irritated when falang visitors were haggling over a 100 bht note. I've seen poverty elsewhere in the world- parts of West Africa were truly shocking. However, the lives of the guys we met (and in some cases loved) were very hard. Many villages didn't have electricity twenty-five years ago- my partner did his homework by candle-light and the outside toilets were no fun. He was bitten by a snake in his family's at night and hospitalised. I knew what to expect when I visited his parents for the first time: what I saw illustrated once again why so many young men and women from such backgrounds went to Bangkok and Pattaya. I recall telling a friend that my partner had lived the first twenty years of his life in a rural slum. I'm so pleased that he met someone who was able to help. He deserves it.

A huge army of toy soldiers which regularly defeated the Nazis. And no dolls, by the way.

Not "strangely"; straight guys often have an obsessive interest in ladyboys. I'd put my money on many who attend the shows being straight. It makes sense, doesn't it? Some of them are beautiful. Some. Incidentally, I've seen a number of toms whom I find attractive.

It reminds me of a joke in the Beano, or was it the Wizard", circa 1955? (UK posters will understand). Waiter to irritated diner;"Are you the cod sir?" "No; I'm just the hungry sole with an empty plaice, waiting for something to fillet." Sorry. I seem to have been a little boy who enjoyed puns.

if you knew my partner you wouldn't ask that question! The visit to Big Buddha I referenced was two weeks ago but we also visited the temple in Second Road as we always do. And we liked the one three kms along Jomtien Beach where we were the only visitors. We didn't even see any monks!

And I almost forgot.... visit the Big Buddha if only for its splendid views but go early before the crowds arrive in their buses. Some visitors have little respect for the serenity that is central to Thais' contemplative experience when in temples.

I don't know whether they are still published but there used to be a series of books here in the UK called "Culture Shock" providing information for UK travelers visiting foreign lands. I recall some of the advice from the Thailand edition. This was back in the 1990s and times have changed but here goes.... 1) If eating in a Thai family residence, always eat a mouthful of the rice on the plate first. (I'm d***** if I can recall why). 2) Leave a small amount of food on your plate to indicate that you've been given enough. 3) Be very careful when handling currency owing to the fact that it shows a image of the King. 4) Stoop when passing a sitting Thai, as mentioned above. Respect for the monarchy was deemed extremely important. This is something that I'm certain has changed in recent ears. I remember going with my partner and a friend to sign a book of condolence at Big C after the previous King died. From what I have observed and heard , his generation- middle-aged- is far less "royalist".

A suggestion for you when you need a break from all the guys. Visit the beach at sunset, perhaps eating in one of the restaurants there such as Sandbar. Watch the sun set over Koh Larn and enjoy the sixty or seventy dancers keeping fit and having fun. A free show!

Most of us spend much or even all of our time in tourist areas where Thais are used to our ways. Hotel staff (in my experience) usually don't wai to guests but money boys? I am sure that it was customary for them to wai after receiving payment....but my memories are of long ago. One custom that I believe still to be pervasive is lowering the head when passing close by someone. It's worth remembering, particularly for us, because we tend to be taller than Thais. Mr Notcutt's book identified this as a custom worth emulating.

Fascinating. My Thai "bible"- Michael Notcutt's "Thai Scene"- warned us not to "wai"; it is a sensitive and complex cultural thing. A smile and a nod, he said, was culturally safer. My partner- the runner-up in the Kamphaeng Phaet School District Wai Competition, circa 1990 and I'm not kidding- spent thirty minutes teaching me how to perform it appropriately when I was due to meet Mama and Papa for the first time. It is the only time I've ever done it.

A "jai yen"( a cool heart) is a Thai Ideal and one which my partner encourages. There is often a moment, sometimes arriving unexpectedly, when I sense that a tear or two is imminent as we prepare for the taxi to the airport. I have now learnt to subdue this by making a joke. And it almost worked last week.

I must have misunderstood; I thought the new entry on-line arrangements were there to expedite matters. My "special" queue has been longer since it was introduced than before. Three weeks ago, it was so busy that a kindly officer took some of us to an underused entry point for Thai citizens. To my left, the "ordinary" queues were stretching down the slope to the walkway. This was at 1600. The amount of time spent with the I.O. seem to me be the same as in the old days. I should add that exit arrangements do seem quicker. No passport departure stamps, I note.

OD is right about those Youtube "why I now hate Thailand" clips. Very tiresome. But the absence of tourists is noticeable....an old masseur mate still on the scene claims it to be worst period he'd seen in the nine years he's been working. Two days ago we ate in my favoured restaurant, Pon's, in Terminal 21- forgive me if you've already read this in another forum- and it was almost full at 1700.The mall as a whole was heaving with customers. But here's the rub; I seemed to be the only non-Asian customer there. My partner claimed to have spotted another falang in a restaurant...but I didn't. As our taxi took us back along Beach Road, we reminisced about our first trips to Pattaya....1995 for me, 2001 for him....and how we were astonished by a dizzying array of lady bars from the Dusit to Walking street, and little else. All but a couple have been replaced by high-end hotels and restaurants. And they are overwhelmingly for Asian visitors. As we approached the rad to Jomtien, the scene was darker, quieter , more down-market, a remnant of the old Pattaya. but without the crowds.

Strange as it may seem in these "quiet" days , the popularity of the gay hotels was such that it was hard to find a room a Ambiance or Le Cafe Royale. Serene was a cheaper gay-friendly option and was blessedly quiet owing to to its being set back from the soi. Penthouse attracted some gay guests but appeared to me to be aggressively straight and was surrounded by noisy lady-bars. The gay hotels served as useful meeting-places for newbies such as I and, together with Cocobanana (later named Panorama), enabled gay visitors to discuss venues and share experiences with more seasoned travelers. My partner and I remained loyal to Ambiance until five or so years ago when Boyztown's late night show bars , as did Macbeth, " murdered sleep." We still miss it but increasing age demands more sleep than was allowed in Boyztown....and that refers to both of us!

The Thais have a "live and let live" mentality, one that isn't a universal virtue. I wish I could say that it was a specifically Buddhist one but both Myanmar and Sri Lanka prove that not to be the case. In the former, the involvemnt of monks in ant-Rohingya pogroms was deeply shocking. And In Sri Lanka, I cannot forget footage of the Civil War with its mass executions. Let us say that it's a very Thai-Buddhist attitude.

OD is right about those Youtube "why I now hate Thailand" clips. Very tiresome. But the absence of tourists is noticeable....an old masseur mate still on the scene claims it to be worst period he'd seen in the nine years he's been working. Two days ago we ate in my favoured restaurant, Pon's, in Terminal 21- forgive me if you've already read this in another forum- and it was almost full at 1700.The mall as a whole was heaving with customers. But here's the rub; I seemed to be the only non-Asian customer there. My partner claimed to have spotted another falang in a restaurant...but I didn't. As our taxi took us back along Beach Road, we reminisced about our first trips to Pattaya....1995 for me, 2001 for him....and how we were astonished by a dizzying array of lady bars from the Dusit to Walking street, and little else. All but a couple have been replaced by high-end hotels and restaurants. And they are overwhelmingly for Asian visitors. As we approached the rad to Jomtien, the scene was darker, quieter , more down-market, a remnant of the old Pattaya. but without the crowds.

Two nights ago, as previously mentioned, Pattaya's T21 was packed. I can't have been the only non-Asian visitor.....but it certainly looked like it.

Yes. My neighbour's son is in his early twenties and gay. Three years ago he visited Thailand for the first time with his boyfriend. His choices of places to stay were significant; Bangkok for the clubs, not Patpong.. Islands for the parties, not Pattaya. And Chiang Mai for sight-seeing.

A couple of visits ago, I found myself in conversation with a guy from my country who had been a regular since the early 2000s. Like many, he'd originally been drawn here by the bars and the opportunities for meeting go- go dancers. Now, he said, he no longer visits bars; he has no interest in ladyboy shows, nor muscle-guys generally and the twink-bars he favoured barely survive. Many haven't of course. So why still come? he says that Bangkok has remained a thrilling , if exasperating city, while Pattaya is hugely-improved. He loves the dining opportunities, the vibrant malls and appreciates the ease of travel from BKK. OK, and the "sanuk" I asked? Apps. Instead of meeting guys in the evening, he meets them in afternoons. Yes, some turn-out to be duds, but we all remember the offed-guy who was fun and tactile in the bar and a cold fish in bed. His benign view of Thailand corresponds with mine, if for different reasons. The last time my partner and I visited a bar was at least twelve years ago and that was to see an old friend.Times had already begun to change. I recall Jim Lumsden saying this to me in Ambiance a couple of years before his departure. He saw the apps as the defining factor; I think there's more to it than that. Nevertheless, our community is changing too. Our overall numbers in Thailand may decline, the age-range may change, but there will still be enough to draw us here, both those with and those without LTRs.

I'd be interested to hear whether the lady-bars are suffering from the same customer shortages. My LHR-BKK passenger lists were once fifty percent or more of single men. Now- and I don't mean just this low season -we are in a very small minority. Perhaps it doesn't matter; it most certainly doesn't impinge on our enjoyment. We find Thailand as welcoming as ever, but it may be that the scene may need to cater for couples as much as for singles looking for company. By the way, and this is merely anecdotal, my impression is that there are more, or perhaps more visible, female couples than before.

One Thailand tourist area that seems to be booming is the north-end of Pattaya Beach Road. We ate in T21 yesterday; the place was heaving and our favourite restaurant, which I'm always raving about, Pon's, was almost full at 1730. Outside, we were unable to find a taxi and had to walk to Big C to get one back to the hotel. I'm coming to the sad conclusion that it may not be tourists who are in short supply so much as tourists like us.

I suspect that "failed businesses" deserves its own thread. How many of us have subsidized one?

The Jomtien Complex was even darker, predictably. Not that it has been humming with activity since we arrived. One experienced worker , who has been plying his trade successfully for five years plus, told me that this was the leanest period he'd experienced.