TotallyOz

Mention homosexuality and many Thais will blame it on recent Western influences. Ask Varaporn Vichayarath what she thinks, however, and she would simply smile before providing a list of old temples with murals depicting same-sex courtship. Yes, homosexual courtship between both men and women. And yes, at temples. "Contrary to conservative beliefs, homosexuality has long existed in our society, as evidenced by these mural paintings," said Varaporn, a book editor who has researched the topic. Varaporn recently presented her findings at Thailand's first ever national conference on sexuality and sexual diversity, where she displayed photographs of murals painted on old temples in various parts of Thailand. Varaporn started with images of the 18th century Buddhaisawan Chapel in the National Museum, where the sacred Buddha Sihing image is housed for public reverence. There, she found some murals with images of lesbianism. One, located on the middle of the left wall after the main entrance, depicts two mermaids frolicking with each other above the ocean waves. On the opposite wall is the scene on the Buddha's Great Renunciation, the night Prince Siddhartha decided to leave palace life to ordain. In the portion of the mural that shows a group of court ladies sleeping in front of the royal chamber some of the women are embracing one another. Lesbian love is often seen in murals depicting the Great Renunciation, Varaporn explained. "While it reflects what must have been a common phenomenon among court women in those days since they were barred from direct contact with men, it may also symbolise worldly lust, which the prince was leaving behind," she said. A few other paintings of palace ladies cuddling each other can be found on the scripture cabinets behind the Buddha Sihing image. Suwannaram Temple in Bangkok Noi is another place Varaporn discovered murals showing homosexuality. Lesbian cuddling is again included in the scene of the Buddha's Great Renunciation, found on the front wall of the ordination hall or ubosot, opposite the main Buddha image. Yet Varaporn pointed out that representations of homosexuality in the sacred space of temples does not equate to social acceptance. "These scenes appear in the context of mainstream values of heterosexuality, so what they convey ranges from a humorous peek at homosexuality to outright ridicule and condemnation." An example of this is a depiction at Suwannaram Temple of sodomy used as punishment. Found on the ubosot wall to the left of the main Buddha image, it reflects social contempt of homosexuality and how some men used rape as a means to punish and humiliate other men. Murals showing same-sex relationships also appear at the Kongkaram Temple in Ratchaburi, Pratusarn Temple in Suphan Buri and the Phra Sing and Buak Krok Luang temples in Chiang Mai. The ordination hall of Kongkaram Temple houses two of Thailand's most well-known mural depictions of lesbian love. One, found on the right wall of the ordination hall after the main entrance, shows one court lady teasingly touch the breast of another. Another mural found to the left of the entrance features two court ladies in a close embrace, unperturbed by surrounding commotion. The paintings of lesbian love at Pratusarn Temple, though not as refined as those in city temples, reflect the folk artists' sense of humour rather than social condemnation. One painting seen immediately after entering that depicts the Buddha's Great Renunciation shows a group of court ladies in a romantic embrace. Another mural, showing an elderly woman playfully chasing another woman, is found on the far end of the left wall near the main Buddha image. The ordination hall of Phra Sing Temple in Chiang Mai, meanwhile, houses murals inspired by the popular folk tale Sang Thong, not the life of the Buddha as in most other temples. Interestingly, these murals show homosexuality to be part of local life, be it in the court or the village. One of these beautiful paintings depicts a group of nymphs (nang fah) caressing one another. Two other murals detail gay courtship; one in which two princes have romantically locked eyes while on a journey to marry their princesses, another in which two young village men hold each other in a loving embrace. All the murals are on the right wall after the entrance. Varaporn said that murals showing lesbian courtship are more common and easier to identify than ones showing gay courtship, which, as they are not overtly sexual, some may argue reflect only male friendship. Varaporn compared the gestures in murals at Phra Sing Temple showing gay courtship with those showing heterosexual relationships. She believes that in the representations of heterosexuality, these gestures, which include eye contact, close embraces, placing hands on another's hips and offering someone a cigarette, indicate romantic advances between men and women. But she remains cautious of claiming they mean the same when seen between two men given the culture of male camaraderie in the North. "We should note, however, that other studies on the North show that gay relationships were not a strange thing in the past," Varaporn pointed out. But why do these paintings on same-sex love appear in temples, supposedly sacred spiritual spaces? And why and when did they cease to be produced? According to Varaporn, the agricultural society of ancient Thailand had long employed sex-related rituals or items associated with fertility in worship. "Consequently, the people saw sexuality as a normal part of life." When, starting in early Ayutthaya period, temples became more widespread and more accessible to commoners, it was natural for the painters of murals to depict what they saw in daily life - including sexuality - in their work, she explained. The temples that house paintings of same-sex relations mainly belong to the early Rattanakosin period during the reign of King Rama I to King Rama III. This was the time society was opening up and allowing more diverse groups to interact with one another on an equal level, at least in religious spheres, said Varaporn. The depictions of contemporary life, however, are just a tiny part in the ubosot murals and do not in any way interfere with their main stories, which are the Buddha's life and other folk tales. Instead, the everyday scenes were used as space-fillers by the early Rattanakosin mural painters, who liked to make their characters and decorative scenes small and compact in order to cover every minute detail of a story. "This left a lot of white space given the size of the wall," explained Varaporn. "The mural painters solved this problem by filling the space with scenery such as trees and mountains as well as depictions of commoners' daily lives." Since these portions of the paintings were not as stylised as those showing the main story, the artists were allowed more freedom and creativity to paint contemporary life and to express themselves, she added. Murals showing same-sex relations started to phase out after the reign of Rama III and disappeared altogether after the reign of Rama V. Contrary to the mainstream belief that homosexuality arrived with Western influences in modern Thailand, the relative social openness toward homosexuality - as indicated by same-sex courtship seen in the murals - started to disappear when the ruling elite began to accept 19th century Victorian morality and sexually repressive beliefs, said Varaporn. Consequently, the artists' playful murals showing same-sex courtship were frowned upon and eventually disappeared. During the reign of King Rama V, the country adopted Western laws making sodomy illegal. Those laws were repealed in 1956. The silence on same-sex relationships, which has contributed to various forms of discrimination against homosexuals, is actually a recent social phenomena, said Varaporn. "We can see this by going back to our temples and our mural paintings," she said. http://www.bangkokpost.com/Outlook/23Feb2008_out001.php

Thai Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej is planning to revive a controversial anti-drugs campaign which reportedly killed 2,500 people. Mr Samak, elected in December polls, promised a decisive, and quite possibly bloody campaign against drug dealers. He said he would use the same ruthless tactics as his political patron and predecessor, Thaksin Shinawatra, who was ousted in a military coup in 2006. "I will not set a target for how many people should die," said Mr Samak. "We will pursue a suppression campaign rigorously. There will be consequences." Extra-judicial killings While Mr Thaksin's 2003-2004 campaign enjoyed popular support and did, briefly, curb Thailand's rising drug problem, it resulted in some 2,500 deaths. Human rights groups accused police of extra-judicial killings, saying many of the dead were later proved to have been innocent. For the entire article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7260127.stm

I deleted multiple posts re: Butterfly Pub as the message was posted under a screen name that was under moderation. Moderation means that a message will not be approved until a Moderator logs into the site to check the forum and approves the message. The poster could not wait for this and posted under a different screen name. That name was also put under moderation and that thread set for moderator discussion. The poster could not wait again and posted a few more times. Instead of approving the thread and allowing one of them to be live on the site, I have removed them all. The post in itself was not an issue. It was the multiple postings under different names. Had the poster just waited, the post would have been returned to the site. We are happy to have businesses post here and the thread in question would have been returned to the site. For those of you that don't get the chain of events, I apologize. I am not sure all the above was clearly explained. I will now go out for my first drink of the night to get my mind clearer.

One place I have always wanted to visit is Cuba. I am hopeful that this new turn of events will allow that to happen. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/20/world/am...nyt&emc=rss

I have been to this event in the past and had a wonderful time. I sat at a long table full of funny men and sexy guys. Anyone making plans to attend this year?

The first event of 2008 will take place on Feb. 25th in a Street Party Fashion. Attached is the flyer for the event. For those of you in Pattaya, I hope you enjoy!

I brought my IPhone to Thailand and it works fine for me. But, now the boyfriend wants one. I tried to explain to him that many if not most of the features won't work here. I just assume this is correct. Is there a legit version of this in Thailand? Has anyone used one here on a Thai network? I have been using mine only for important calls to USA as the rates are not cheap. I also made sure I turned off my mail as that is data and I had a friend that had over 1k in charges when he was in Asia. I have seen the Iphones in the IT places in Thailand so I know an unblocked version is available. I am curious if anyone has a legit one that is of use in Thailand.

I didn't realize it was such a big day but all the guys I know were really into it and had dates and the bars were not crowded at all. There were many I talked to who had plans late with their significant other. I didn't know this was such a Thai holiday but the boyfriend said it was a big day here. Have others seen this? I saw tons of red and lots of roses last night.

I met a guy that I like. He has worked in the bars for 3 months. He is not gay. He is very straight acting and Alpha male. He has been off with customers 3 times only. He is sweet and handsome. He does not bottom at all. But, I asked him what it would cost for him to try. He got all flustered and wanted to think about it. He spent time with his friends whom I've met in the bars as well. A discussion ensued about this. The entire group is straight and all have girlfriends. BTW: I do believe his story as a good Farang friend of mine who is in the bar each night confirmed this for me. Now, as to price, he wants to let me know tonight. LOL He needed a night to think about this and last night was Valentines Day and his Girlfriend was there. I was very discreet about asking him this and would not embarrass him in anyway. I just like to know up front what my options are. At first it was only massage and JO. After a week, it is now oral. Now, he wants to give me another rate. What is the cost of a virgin today? I normally do not like Virgins and much prefer those who have been around a bit and more experienced but I do really like this guy. 19 years old, Thai/Burmese/Laos/Chinese/Farang Mix. Straight. Masculine. Cute ass. What is the max you would pay for someone that you really really wanted?

I guess I believe in love but not sure about the typical sense of one True Love. I have loved many over the years and it seems I still have room in my heart for more. I did find that the more heartache I have experiences the less willing I am to give love a try. I have had the same BF in Thailand for 4 years now. We are not monogamous as he is not even gay, according to him. He likes ladyboys as they are called in Thailand or TV in other places. I have been with him a couple off weeks now and every night he tells me that he loves me. I am not good with saying it back and often feel bad that I don't. I do think he loves me and I do love him. It is not the googoo gaga type of love but the one that has developed over the years of history and friendship. Perhaps, my closest thing to true love was my first boyfriend. I would have done anything for him. I even let myself stay in a horrible relationship with him for 5 years. It was bad after 3 months and I knew better but this feeling of love I had for him was unmistakable. I could not get out and as hard and often as I tried, I stayed in the relationship for years beyond what was healthy for either of us. I met two guys in Thailand who have been together for over 20 years and they are monogamous. They seem perfectly happy and content and I do see they love each other immensely. I don't see true love as being synonymous with monogamy. That has never been a part of my dream guy fantasy. When you see an escort, are you looking for an opening at love? Do you see it as possible? Or, are you pretty straight forward and it is just sex for you?

Whoa! Mexico – where the tequila is cheap and real men don't eat tuna tacos. Mexico City is a cheap flight into another world –the American dollar is still strong, tourists are welcome and people party all night and day. You'll find yourself surrounded by beautiful dark-skinned boys and have lots of chances to have fun in the sun. It's absolutely gaytastic! You'll find everything is cheaper in Mexico than you would expect. And the city has lots of the charm and vitality of Rio and Buenos Aires, but is much easier to get to than other Latin American countries. That makes Mexico City great for a long weekend or a spur of the moment trip to find some Latin love! So, kick back my darling divas, delicious drag queens and sexy studs, and let Madame Ovary take you on a magical journey to Mexico City! Mexico City Gay Culture Gay culture is thriving in Mexico City – and you won't have to look far to find your share of men to eat your meat burrito. But, it is subtler than in many large cities in the world. It is still considered taboo for gay or lesbian couples to kiss in public – although public hand holding has gotten more acceptable over the past few years. You'll find that even the queerest queen in Mexico City keeps things on the down low until he gets into the clubs. While the macho culture does keep many Mexican gays from being fagulously flamboyant, it creates a nice rough top culture for those of you maricons who are into things on the wild side! You also have to be careful about figuring out who is gay and which places are gay friendly. Many Mexicans don't understand what the rainbow pride logo means – in fact, some think it just symbolizes "something rich Americans like." Therefore, some bars have rainbow stickers – even though they are straight bars. The rainbow symbol is also worn by a lot of young Mexicans simply because anything considered American is cool. This means that even if you are sitting in a bar with a rainbow sticker out front and talking to a guy wearing a rainbow flag on his T-shirt, you can't assume he's gay. So, tread cautiously - you don't want to end up trying to bend a straight arrow. That said, there is a lot of tolerance for gays in Mexican culture. Mexico is one of the only countries in the world to grant conjugal visits to gay prisoners, and gay civil unions are recognized by the federal government – putting them ahead of America! Like many Latin American countries, HIV rates are fairly high in Mexico compared with the United States – so always be sure to glove your love before you grab his ass and give him a shove! You'll also find that 'body culture' has yet to reach the gay scene in Mexico City – so you won't find a lot of Chelsea Boy types with six-pack abs hanging around the bars and clubs. In fact, even the most beer-bellied bears have no problem taking off their shirts and shaking all they've got on the dance floor! Unlike in America, you'll find that there is a lot of social mixing between gay men and lesbians. Most of the bars in La Zona Rosa are both gay and lesbian friendly – with the exception of Pussy, which is dyke-only. La Zona Rosa Also known as "The Pink Zone," La Zona Rosa is the main gayborhood in Mexico City. With its pink cobblestone buildings, you'll find it absolutely fagtabulous! La Zona Rosa contains more than 50 gay bars and clubs – the bars tend to be open all day while most of the clubs don't even start serving drinks until after midnight. One of the more popular spots to meet and mate with men during the day is called "Gai Bar" - a Spanish expression even Madame Ovary was able to translate into English! You'll find that there is a thriving middle class in La Zona Rosa, and the bars here are slightly more expensive than those in the straight parts of town - but still less than half of what you'd pay at any gay bar or club in America! When you get into La Zona Rosa, look for a copy of Homopolis – the city's weekly gay guide. It will give you up-to-date information on the latest circuit parties, coolest bars and hook up spots. It also sports a long listing of rent boys – for those of you who like to see someone paid to get laid! If you are into sweet young things you'll want to check out the BGay BProud Café, which is a delicious coffee house for younger gays and the men who love them. This is often the starting place for young gays who are just coming out or who are not ready or old enough for the hardcore gay scene in the bigger clubs. Down the street is the Centro Cultural de la Diversidad Sexual – which a combination café and gay information center. They'll be able to sell you a cerveza while giving you maps of the gayborhood and tips on where to go in La Zona Rosa – so that you can do that thing you do! La Zona Rosa is also a hot spot to cruise for hard cock. During the day and into the early evening, you can head over to Alameda Parque or Parque Hundido and check out the men before heading off into the woods with the cockaholic of your choice! Mexico City Gay Pride Every June, Mexico City is home to one of the top ten largest gay pride events in the world. Last year, my little darlings, it is estimated that more than 150,000 came out to watch the parade as it made its way from La Zona Rosa to El Zocalo, the main square in the heart of the city. Once the parade reaches the center of town, an all night carnival begins – complete with several full-length drag shows. The floats are some of the campiest in the world – and the cruising scene after the parade is about as hot as it gets anywhere. You'll want to keep cumming back for more! El Zocalo Once you satisfy your cravings for cock and want to start seeing sites you can tell your mother and fag hags about, you'll want to walk over to El Zocalo. Considered one of the largest squares in the world, El Zocalo is surrounded by the National Palace, City Hall and the Supreme Court of Justice. It is also filled with divaliciously delightful restaurants and cafes, so you can easily spend a day here just relaxing, people watching and having the time of your life! There is an ice skating rink on one side of the square, while on the other side there are many concerts held throughout the year. During the day you'll be surrounded by street performers and various other forms of impromptu entertainment. Just keep an eye on your wallet – because El Zocalo is full of pickpockets! Templo Mayor While El Zocalo stands out because of its beautiful modern buildings, just a few steps away is a link to the past – Templo Mayor – an ancient Aztec temple that has stood for thousands of years in what has now become Mexico City. The temple is a giant pyramid – just like those in Egypt – built to honor the gods of war, sun, rain and fertility. Parts of the temple are made out of racks of the skulls of people the Aztecs sacrificed to their gods. While partially in ruins, you can see scale models of what the temple looked like before it was sacked by the conquistadors. It's a dickalicious delight! The Angel Of Independence If you make new friends and want to meet up somewhere the next day, the place to go is the Angel of Independence – the largest landmark in Mexico City. The bronze and gold angel sits atop a giant mausoleum built to honor the dead of the War of Independence. It is built to resemble what the Louvre's Winged Victory would look like if it had not been damaged over the centuries. It sits on top of four 36-foot high Roman columns and weighs more than seven tons. The best feature is that it can be seen from many parts of the city – and as such, makes a great landmark when you are trying to arrange a place to hook up with last night's hookup! You can't miss it! Paseo De La Reforma The most fabulous street in Mexico City is the Paseo De La Reforma. Built as an exact replica of the Champs Elysees in Paris, it cuts a diagonal line through the entire city – starting at the Angel of Independence and finishing inside La Zona Rosa. This avenue is fagtastic and has some of the best shopping in the world – with nearly every famous designer, department store and retail outlet you've ever heard of. It is also home to several beautiful embassies, exclusive restaurants and nearly every five-star hotel in Mexico City. You could easily spend several days just walking up and down the Paseo De La Reforma! The best thing is that once you get to the end, you'll be at La Zona Rosa and find yourself right in the heart of the gayborhood! To Hell With Taco Bell – Get Your Sweet Ass Down To Mexico City And Shake Your Salsa! Ok my hermanos, it's time for Madame Ovary to say, “Hasta la vista, baby!” Mexico City is one of th most charming and inexpensive gay friendly cities in the world – and it has Aztec ruins! What more could a gay boy want? So, get on a plane, sip a cerveza and let Mexico City bring you to your knees! I'll see you in La Zona Rosa! Madame Ovary cc Drag.com

I met a guy who had just traveled all around Asia. He is now in Thailand studying Muay Thai. He was in Burma for a month. He has just gotten out of the Israeli Army and taking a long deserved holiday. He said that of all the places he has visited, and he has been to just about every country in Asia, that Burma was the most friendly. This took me by surprise and he said that often he was the lone tourist and he felt perfectly safe there and loved the country. I would not visit Burma as I don't want my money going to support the military there. But, has anyone else been there? Liked it?

CTguy, it is Heaven on earth.

From Bangkok Post: The baht could reach 31 to the dollar this week if the 30% capital controls are cancelled, according to local bankers. On Friday, Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej said the government could scrap the 30% capital controls as early as this week. The previous day, Finance Minister Surapong Suebwonglee was more guarded in his words, saying only that he would meet with the Bank of Thailand to review the existing controls and discuss possible alternatives. The capital controls were first implemented in December 2006 to help stem speculative inflows and ease pressure on the baht to appreciate. The central bank has since largely eased the controls to facilitate investment and inflows. The baht, which traded Friday at 32.9 to the dollar, has moved mostly in line with regional currencies over the past several months. But analysts say the baht could bounce strongly on sentiment factors if the controls are scrapped. Piya Sosothikul, an executive vice-president at Bangkok Bank, said that if the capital controls were scrapped and the central bank allowed the baht to move freely, rates would hit 31 to the dollar relatively quickly. ''The volume of the baht in the offshore market is estimated to be 5% to 10% of the total volume of baht currency traded in global market,'' he said. Offshore rates, at 29 to 30 baht to the dollar, are much stronger than onshore rates due to supply imbalances created by the capital controls. Changes to the controls would see the rates converging. ''What is certain is that scrapping the controls would lead to inflows into the stock market,'' Mr Piya said. Inflows would be made to not only take advantage of recent declines in market prices, but also to speculate on further appreciation of the baht, which would increase returns in dollar terms. Expectations that the gap between US and local interest rates will increase could also fuel additional capital flows. The US Fed Funds rate now stands at 3%, and is expected to fall again to 1.5 points by the end of the year. Thai one-day repurchase rates are now at 3.25%, and are unlikely to decline sharply this year due to rising inflation pressure. Mr Piya said any change in the capital controls should be made gradually. ''From my personal view, it would be better if a cancellation was made in steps, with a clear schedule outlined for the public,'' he said. Any change would have advantages and disadvantages, Mr Piya said, adding that a stronger baht would benefit the country in the form of cheaper import costs for capital goods. Apisak Tantivorawong, president at Krung Thai Bank, said the 30% rule, in practice, had not affected the markets except for the bond market. ''I think if the government wants to scrap the rule, it needs to have additional measures ready. Any change should be made gradually,'' he said. http://www.bangkokpost.com/Business/11Feb2008_biz22.php

I have a friend who just spent one month as a traveler in Burma. He said he felt perfectly safe the entire trip and that in most places he was the only tourist. He was just gotten out of the military in Israel after 5 years of service and he spent a few months traveling around Asia. He has done Muay Thai camp and many other interesting things all over Asia. I was a bit surprised that he felt so safe in Burma but he said he felt safer there than anywhere else he traveled. Anyone else been there in recent times? For me, I am not interested in spending my money there after the horrible massacre there last year so I do not plan a trip there but would be curious if anyone has been there recently and their experiences there as compared to Thailand.

I have had a very hard time on this trip recovering from Jet Lag. For some reason I have not been able to adjust. I will normally take a sleeping pill at night but nothing seems to work. I have yet to make it through one night of sleep. Any suggestions or tricks anyone knows?

LOL Well, a jacuzzi sounds nice to me. Have you ever seen a Thai Toilet? It is a nightmare that I have yet to master and that ain't just shitting you!

First, I have found this entire thread most interesting and fascinating. It still amazes me we have such a wide variety of opinions and issues that are of importance to us. I have always had a hard time understanding why anyone would be a Republican as I often related being Republican to the Christian Right. A little older and a little wiser, I realize there are more issues in the Republican party that one or two issues and can see some value in some of the platform. Being a Clinton supporter from day 1, I had hoped that she would be ahead and able to claim victory by now. Not only do I not now see that coming down the road, I am now leery that it will not happen at all. Obama seems to keep pushing ahead and pulling out the victories. He is not who I would like my nominee to be and I don't think he has the experience to lead the country in foreign issues and to me, that is of paramount importance. I do think Clinton has this experience and will take us in the right direction. I would like to see her fight a bit harder and l wish the voters would see the stance on all the issues as opposed to just the sermons or prepared speeches the candidates give. Obama is not the man to lead the country. That being said, I don't really know what I'll do if he is given the nomination. After checking in on my websites each day, I check all the political blogs and press. It keeps looking darker each day for Hillary. I grew up in the deep south and my entire family is conservative Republicans. They have voted for GW for years and this year, all the ladies have said they are going to vote for Hillary as they think it is time a woman is in the White House. They also like her views and more importantly, they were disenfranchised with GW and his party when they saw they were paying more for medicare and their life savings keep going down thanks to the policies of the last 8 years. When I was a child, I remember marching in pro-life rallies and getting involved in the NRA. I hadn't really developed thoughts for myself at that time. Now, some 20 something years later, I can think on my own and make my own decisions. I find it interesting that many of my friends that I grew up with don't. They just keep voting for who their pastor tells them to vote for. It would be nice for those people to watch the debates instead of the PTL Club. And what about Nader?

I have always wanted to learn about Muay Thai. I have been fascinated with it since my first visit to Thailand. So, I enrolled as a student for a month at a gym. Getting to the facility today, I know I was in for a hard four weeks. It was very rustic and that is being generous. It is all outside and the place has been around for years. The wear and tear of the place is evident. It has a nice reputation and the boxers that work there are all champions in their own right. To start the first day, we got into a truck, Thai style. That is, we all hopped into the back of the truck. All in all, there were around 14 of us. All were foreigners except the boyfriend. They drove us halfway up the mountain and let us out on a path. The patch was a 2 ½ Kilometer up a mountain to a waterfall. It is a solid uphill jog. I was prepared for a job each day but not straight up a mountain. I had to run and walk and run and walk part of the way. I was a little disappointed in myself that at some of the higher climbers that I choose to walk. Not much to do other than listen to the body. The group met at the top and we walked back down. The group this AM consisted mostly of foreigners and very handsome ones at that. All half my age. Most in their 20’s and some studying at the camp for weeks, months and even 2 years. All were hard bodied young men. I was the old man in the group and I most definably felt like it. Back at the gym, I was put hand wraps on and given the basics by the owner. We jumped rope for about 20 min. That is a real treat. It is not the same jump rope I remember as a kid. It was a bit more difficult. And I tried to do well with this and do go for a hard 20 min. At the end, my heard was pounding and my legs sore. The owner gave us the basic moves and he spent a good hour showing us what we needed to practice. He led us to a mirror and let us practice in front of it. What a sight that was to see. Watching yourself shadow box in a mirror is a treat everyone should experiences once in a while. We did this for a bit before being put into a ring. Yes that is right, a ring. We were each given a trainer and we had to show them our moves. I worked hard to try to impress. There are few moves in Muay Thai but you must have the down perfectly and we were told this would take at least 10 days of practice. The trainer made sure my mistakes were corrected. I was slapped in the face at least 50 times in the hour. Every time I took my hands down from my forehead to protect it, he gently reminding me with a slap, that they were not to be moved from that position. If you don’t like getting hit, do NOT go to a Muay Thai Camp. We were told these gentle hits will not hurt you but help you get prepared for the sport. It is a sport and this is part of making sure you are ready to get into a ring. There is much to learn and much to understand about the sport. What I gathered from the first morning is that I have a lot to learn and it will not be an easy path. Getting back to my hotel, we ate breakfast and laid down for a bit. After 3 hours we woke up. The boyfriend will not admit to be sore, but my body aches and my legs hurt like hell. Having kicked a bag and with a trainer at least 200 times, the pains just go up and down the body. It is not unimaginable pain but something I can tolerate and I should have stretched before I left. I didn’t stretch and I know better. The gym takes a more personal approach to the sport. You do what you want when you want and if they see you working, they will help. It is all up to you to put into it what you can do what you want to achieve. First morning, I was sore. The afternoon section I hope goes better and I will stretch before I return. The camp is from 6am-11am and from 4-7 every day. The Morning session was hard, the afternoon was tougher. I guess after jogging once today, another jog was just pain. It hurt but in a good way. The rope jumping was also there and push ups every few minutes in between everything. There is perfection to being a Muay Thai boxer. They want you to practice that perfection. Each stance and kick and swing is done a certain way and you are required to make sure each is done correctly. If not, you will get someone over to help you get corrected. If you are in the ring, it is done with a slap, if not, it is done with verbal directions. The afternoon had more Thais as they got out of school and ready to practice. It was a hard day and after a few hundred shadow kicks and about 50 on each side on a bag, I was ready for the night. I made my way to the hotel and sank into the bed. Tried, weary and excited. I like the main teacher. He is gentle yet firm. He is very knowledgeable and attentive. He made clear that if we want attention from him, to show him we were working hard. When he sees that, he will take time for us. He took time with me today and spent a great deal showing me what we needed to know. At many points through the day, someone yells out something in Thai which means to do push ups. I don’t understand the word but I know when it is yelled, and others go down in push up position, I do the same and do 15-20 push ups. Each day this happens at least 8 or 9 times. The owner has 5 large dogs. They want attention from everyone and I enjoy the companionship so I have become friends with them. They don’t seem to like Thais at all and it must have something to do with their past. The second day was the same as the first except we go on different jogs each day. Today we were taken to a lake and ran around it. It was about 3.5k. That was an easy jog for me and less than 25 minutes total, I was 3rd in a pack of 15. I don’t mind the jogs that are smooth straight surface, it is the uphill battles that boggle my body and legs and make my mind go into the mode that it thinks I can’t do it. I am totally determined that the next mountain jog we have that I will complete it without walking at all. Testosterone is high at the gym. I don’t think any are gay but who the hell knows. I sure as shit don’t and my gaydar does not work in the pavilion. On the second day, we had a 2 hour Thai massage in the hotel. It was amazing and much needed. Thank goodness there are some professional massage therapists around as the bar boy I picked up last night promised me a great strong massage. Needless today, I was left disappoint in the massage but light a load or two. I don’t mind at all the training. It does hurt from top to bottom at times but I just keep working through it and try to keep the pain to a minimum. I guess the hardest part for me is seeing the blood of those that get in ring to practice and they get a bloody nose or mouth. I hate the sight of blood and I know that one day it will be me getting off the mat to wipe the nose clean of the blood and get the lips cleaned. I do find the jogging through the neighborhoods interesting. The mix of palatial estates with that of regular Thai families is a fascinating mixture. I also see that most homes have at least 2 dogs. They are allowed to roam free in the area and it makes it difficult for joggers. For me, they don’t really both me but it is nice to see them not try to nip at my legs. I have found that eating more at the local venues is a treat. Often I don’t know what I am trying but it is fun to try. I have been adventurous and I think I have enjoyed this much more. The training is really what you put into it is what you get from it. Some guys show up every session and work their asses off and some do not. It is really all up to you. I don’t think I have come in last in any jog but I have been in the bottom 1/3 and the top 1/3. That is not bad for someone my age and weight. I still have a belly that has not disappeared and that makes the jogging against those with 6 packs a bit tougher. I find the guys that have been here the longest run faster, harder stronger than the rest of us. I have yet to finish last so that is not bad for an old man. I am not trying to brag or be boastful. It is what it is. I am not in excellent shape but not in poor shape either. Each day for me is just about being able to get out of bed and get started on the run at 6am and do the best I can do. Not the best the others can do; but the best I can do. Some days that is more than others. Some days the legs are hurting so much that the speed is slower and some days I seem to get a boost of energy and am able to really crank it up. All in all, this is a real learning experience. It is teaching me a lot about life but especially about the hard work the Thai go through at a very young age to be the best in this sport. I have to not only admire that but say that I am amazed when I see those young lads pounding away at the bags day after day and night after night. It is not a passive sport and not one that should be dismissed as something fun to watch in a bar. I am sure I’ll have more to share as the days go forward but for now, I am just grateful that my feet hit the floor every morning and they are able to stand up and make the trip to the ring to do the work. Not sure if I will last another week or month. But, I do know that each day has been amazing and I hope I am able to keep putting those gloves on and learning a bit more each day.

I decided to try something a bit different than a typical holiday in Thailand. I enrolled in a Muay Thai boxing camp. I was a bit leery with this decision and was told we would be jogging 5k each day so I have done that for a few weeks to prepare for the camp. Getting to the facility today, I know I was in for a hard four weeks. It was very rustic and that is being generous. It is all outside and the place has been around for years. The wear and tear of the place is evident. It has a nice reputation and the boxers that work there are all champions in their own right. To start the first day, we got into a truck, Thai style. That is, we all hopped into the back of the truck. All in all, there were around 14 of us. All were foreigners except the boyfriend. They drove us halfway up the mountain and let us out on a path. The patch was a 2 ½ Kilometer up a mountain to a waterfall. It is a solid uphill jog. I was prepared for a job each day but not straight up a mountain. I had to run and walk and run and walk part of the way. I was a little disappointed in myself that at some of the higher climbers that I choose to walk. Not much to do other than listen to the body. The group met at the top and we walked back down. The group this AM consisted mostly of foreigners and very handsome ones at that. All half my age. Most in their 20’s and some studying at the camp for weeks, months and even 2 years. All were hard bodied young men. I was the old man in the group and I most definably felt like it. Back at the gym, I was put hand wraps on and given the basics by the owner. We jumped rope for about 20 min. That is a real treat. It is not the same jump rope I remember as a kid. It was a bit more difficult. And I tried to do well with this and do go for a hard 20 min. At the end, my heard was pounding and my legs sore. The owner gave us the basic moves and he spent a good hour showing us what we needed to practice. He led us to a mirror and let us practice in front of it. What a sight that was to see. Watching yourself shadow box in a mirror is a treat everyone should experiences once in a while. We did this for a bit before being put into a ring. Yes that is right, a ring. We were each given a trainer and we had to show them our moves. I worked hard to try to impress. There are few moves in Muay Thai but you must have the down perfectly and we were told this would take at least 10 days of practice. The trainer made sure my mistakes were corrected. I was slapped in the face at least 50 times in the hour. Every time I took my hands down from my forehead to protect it, he gently reminding me with a slap, that they were not to be moved from that position. If you don’t like getting hit, do NOT go to a Muay Thai Camp. We were told these gentle hits will not hurt you but help you get prepared for the sport. It is a sport and this is part of making sure you are ready to get into a ring. There is much to learn and much to understand about the sport. What I gathered from the first morning is that I have a lot to learn and it will not be an easy path. Getting back to my hotel, we ate breakfast and laid down for a bit. After 3 hours we woke up. The boyfriend will not admit to be sore, but my body aches and my legs hurt like hell. Having kicked a bag and with a trainer at least 200 times, the pains just go up and down the body. It is not unimaginable pain but something I can tolerate and I should have stretched before I left. I didn’t stretch and I know better. The gym takes a more personal approach to the sport. You do what you want when you want and if they see you working, they will help. It is all up to you to put into it what you can do what you want to achieve. First morning, I was sore. The afternoon section I hope goes better and I will stretch before I return. The camp is from 6am-11am and from 4-7 every day. The Morning session was hard, the afternoon was tougher. I guess after jogging once today, another jog was just pain. It hurt but in a good way. The rope jumping was also there and push ups every few minutes in between everything. There is perfection to being a Muay Thai boxer. They want you to practice that perfection. Each stance and kick and swing is done a certain way and you are required to make sure each is done correctly. If not, you will get someone over to help you get corrected. If you are in the ring, it is done with a slap, if not, it is done with verbal directions. The afternoon had more Thais as they got out of school and ready to practice. It was a hard day and after a few hundred shadow kicks and about 50 on each side on a bag, I was ready for the night. I made my way to the hotel and sank into the bed. Tried, weary and excited. I like the main teacher. He is gentle yet firm. He is very knowledgeable and attentive. He made clear that if we want attention from him, to show him we were working hard. When he sees that, he will take time for us. He took time with me today and spent a great deal showing me what we needed to know. At many points through the day, someone yells out something in Thai which means to do push ups. I don’t understand the word but I know when it is yelled, and others go down in push up position, I do the same and do 15-20 push ups. Each day this happens at least 8 or 9 times. The owner has 5 large dogs. They want attention from everyone and I enjoy the companionship so I have become friends with them. They don’t seem to like Thais at all and it must have something to do with their past. The second day was the same as the first except we go on different jogs each day. Today we were taken to a lake and ran around it. It was about 3.5k. That was an easy jog for me and less than 25 minutes total, I was 3rd in a pack of 15. I don’t mind the jogs that are smooth straight surface, it is the uphill battles that boggle my body and legs and make my mind go into the mode that it thinks I can’t do it. I am totally determined that the next mountain jog we have that I will complete it without walking at all. Testosterone is high at the gym. I don’t think any are gay but who the hell knows. I sure as shit don’t and my gaydar does not work in the pavilion. On the second day, we had a 2 hour Thai massage in the hotel. It was amazing and much needed. Thank goodness there are some professional massage therapists around as the bar boy I picked up last night promised me a great strong massage. Needless today, I was left disappoint in the massage but light a load or two. I don’t mind at all the training. It does hurt from top to bottom at times but I just keep working through it and try to keep the pain to a minimum. I guess the hardest part for me is seeing the blood of those that get in ring to practice and they get a bloody nose or mouth. I hate the sight of blood and I know that one day it will be me getting off the mat to wipe the nose clean of the blood and get the lips cleaned. I do find the jogging through the neighborhoods interesting. The mix of palatial estates with that of regular Thai families is a fascinating mixture. I also see that most homes have at least 2 dogs. They are allowed to roam free in the area and it makes it difficult for joggers. For me, they don’t really both me but it is nice to see them not try to nip at my legs. I have found that eating more at the local venues is a treat. Often I don’t know what I am trying but it is fun to try. I have been adventurous and I think I have enjoyed this much more. The training is really what you put into it is what you get from it. Some guys show up every session and work their asses off and some do not. It is really all up to you. I don’t think I have come in last in any jog but I have been in the bottom 1/3 and the top 1/3. That is not bad for someone my age and weight. I still have a belly that has not disappeared and that makes the jogging against those with 6 packs a bit tougher. I find the guys that have been here the longest run faster, harder stronger than the rest of us. I have yet to finish last so that is not bad for an old man. I am not trying to brag or be boastful. It is what it is. I am not in excellent shape but not in poor shape either. Each day for me is just about being able to get out of bed and get started on the run at 6am and do the best I can do. Not the best the others can do; but the best I can do. Some days that is more than others. Some days the legs are hurting so much that the speed is slower and some days I seem to get a boost of energy and am able to really crank it up. All in all, this is a real learning experience. It is teaching me a lot about life but especially about the hard work the Thai go through at a very young age to be the best in this sport. I have to not only admire that but say that I am amazed when I see those young lads pounding away at the bags day after day and night after night. It is not a passive sport and not one that should be dismissed as something fun to watch in a bar. I am sure I’ll have more to share as the days go forward but for now, I am just grateful that my feet hit the floor every morning and they are able to stand up and make the trip to the ring to do the work. Not sure if I will last another week or month. But, I do know that each day has been amazing and I hope I am able to keep putting those gloves on and learning a bit more each day.

I have to say I am more impressed with the shows than I have been in the past and that is pretty much true for all the places. They seem to be doing more than a quick fuck show and candles. Jupiter 2002 had a great show with new stuff that I had never seen. A nice violin concerto with a guy in a outfit that blew up to reveal his hard cock also playing to the music. They also had a nice ladyboy scene where the lady was vaulted into the air for a song. Several other hot numbers and a big dick contest. Now, I personally do not like the sex shows. I had much rather participate than watch something. But, just about every single bar on the soi was having a show. I went into 10 bars just wanting to see the gogo boys and all had shows going on. I guess that is the thing that brings in the cash. For me, it takes away an hour of the boys chance to make money. But, apparently the bars are bringing in the dough. At Jupiter, the drinks are 250 each and I counted 215 people minimum. That is over 53k bath just at the time I was there. Most places were similarly packed on a Saturday night. I was a bit surprised at the high number of Thais at the places as well as women. At Jupiter, the Thai customers far outnumbered the Farang ones. The same at Boys Bangkok and Future Boys. I was unable to be seated in Classic boy as they were full as were most of the other places. If you want a set for the show, get there early. Dream boys is 270 entrance and that gets you one drink. The boys that were there was not Amazing as I had seen in the past. There were some hotties but not the large numbers I had seen before. Just for tonight, I thought the hottest boys were at Boys Bangkok. I took one from there. I had 2 over for drinks, one drink for myself and the off for one boy. The bin was 1170 baht. I am guessing that means the off was 400. I tipped each mamasan at each place I go to as they know what I want and make sure I get exactly what I want every time. I rarely have a disappointment. In return, the boys rarely have a disappointment. The mamasan tells the boy exactly what I want and that they will be paid well if they take care of me. I pay the boys 1500 for a short time or 2000 for a bit longer. Tonight, I had a boy that went to 3 other bars with me and that takes up his time and although we didn't have 4 hours of sex, it did take away from his time and I paid him accordingly. I don't think it fair to take a boy to the shows and think that is a tip. For the most part, they are bored with them and only smile when they think you want them to. They had much rather be in the hotel and home early if the tip is going to be the same. If you get a good reputation with a few boys, the rest will take care of you. The biggest change I noticed since my last trip is the number of hot boys on the street in front of the soi and at the bars just as you enter. Many of the bars have redecorated and refurbished themselves but they are mostly the same. There were a few guys I noticed that were from Pattaya and now working the street. They were all over 20 and not sure why they choose to work on the street as opposed to the bars but they were all smiling and happy to see me. There are some gogo bars on the same soi as the popular Tawan. Tawan is mostly a muscle guy bar. Does nothing for me but I go some time just to see the testosterone. Down the soi is a nice restaurant named Mango Tree. The food is excellent and the price is reasonable. The Tawan soi is one block down from the Tartawan Hotel, which is popular with many gay tourists. Next door to Tawan is a Karaoke bar with sexy boys. There are a few massage places in the same soi. Solid is usually a fun place. Tonight, it was 9 guys and 8 were ladyboys and just not happening. Super A boys, the one on top of Solid and just to the right back side of it, was the single most horrible bar I have been into in years. Not one cute boy in the place. An old farang getting sucked by a boy and a dog wandering around and barking. It was a little surreal. Drinks at Solid and Super A are 100 bath. I don't know the off fees. Tawan the drinks were the same as most bars 250 I think it was. However, If you are looking for the cutes boys in Bangkok, don't go to the gogo bars, go to the malls. They are there in droves and they are willing to go with you. Not all of them of course but many of them are. Take a look and walk slow and smile often and you will see eye candy galore and more hotties than you can handle. I have had luck every time I go there to pick up and it is usually a college student out from school for the day. They are sweet and speak English. Don't limit yourself only to the bars when in Thailand. More fun can be had than at the bars and massage parlors. Test and try the malls and parks. Your chance of success is not 100% like at the bars but you will do better than you think with the right smile and if you are not shy. The Massage places are nice. Hero and others are fun but the best IMHO is B and N. B and N has been one of my favorite afternoon delights for years. They have cute guys and good rates. The house brings out about 20 or so guys for you to chose from. The manager will be able to tell you which ones are gay and what they do. The house gets paid 500 baht for the room and time. The minimum tip is 500 bath. I normally tell the boys: 500 bath massage only 600 bath jack off 800 baht smoke me (oral) 1200 baht all the above and anal I let them decide what they want to do and for how much. I will tip above the rates I pay if the guy goes above and beyond. Those are also a bit higher than some pay and lower than others pay. I just like to be upfront with the guys and for them to know in advance what they are getting into and let them chart the course. Of course, if I really want sex that day, I tell the manager that and they make sure I get the right guy. Frankly, most of the time I just enjoy the massage and playing. I haven't met too many that don't make the full amount of money. But, there are some. This place is on Sukhumvit Road and is easily reached by train. Day time the traffic on the road is horrible and takes forever to go a few blocks in high traffic. I prefer to get there early afternoon and get a good start to the day. 4th Floor, Sukhumvit Plaza, 212/23 Sukhumvit Soi 12 Phone:+66 (0) 22 519 714 One place I love in Bangkok is Cutey and Beauty. They have all gay staff and cater to gay men. They are sweet, flirtatious and sexy. The hair cut is about 400 baht and the foot massage is 500 baht and the facials are 500 baht. They do have combination specials and a day of treatment. The boys there are really sweet and fun. They are in a shopping plaza that you will love if you are a golfer as the entire plaza is golf and hair. Not sure why the mix of the 2 but it is fun. Their prices are a bit higher than other places but I like the fact it is gay owned and operated and they advertise in gay magazines and the boys are gay (if a Thai boy is actually 100 percent gay). The place is located half way between the Silom 4 gay bars and the Papong hooker bars. If you want to spend some afternoon time at Cutey and then head for dinner on Silom 4 and then to the boy bars, this is an easy walk between them all and a fun way to start and end the day. Cutey and Beauty 3rd Floor Thaniya Plaza Silom Bangkok Tel: 02-2321-2315 www.cuteyandbeauty.com I would not have made it around the area without Gems and Phon Taxi, which I have used for many years. Not one disappointment. Not one missed appointment. They take good care of you and have very reasonable prices. They picked up the bf to bring to me and back to school on Sunday and even came and took us to airport and several other small trips. They are simply the best IMHO. email: gemsphone@loxinfo.co.th phone: (66) 0176164550 09-8332498 So, a week in the great city and I had a blast. I loved the shopping malls and found that the best boys are there during the day and night. I did not have luck at Lumpini Park as I did before but I didn’t have the chance to go on a weekend. The one thing I hate about Bangkok is the traffic. It is horrible. The bf and I went from Silom 4 to MBK and it took over 1-½ hours. It was crazy as we should have walked and if I had known exactly where we were going, I would have. The greatest deal I got was my hotel. I stayed at a nice hotel and I was able to book it for 5k points per night from my point collection. The normal rate is 30k points per night and I am not sure why this was on the website but it was. So, 8 nights in Bangkok at a very nice hotel for only 40k points. I had free breakfast, Internet and mini bar privileges. What a great deal this was for me. I checked out at the end and after ordering room service many times and my bill was less than 200 USD. It was great to be back in Bangkok and see some wonderful guys and spend time with the amazing Thai people.

I have to agree with you. I have called Craig's List the Stellas Bar of the new century. Stellas was known for hot boys but hustler, flakes and liars. The same seemed to be true in NYC when I tried to hook up. Many no responses. Many responded with weird questions and many just flakes. I did find some cute guys on there but it as luck and not the majority of the guys I met.

One place I love in Bangkok is Cutey and Beauty. They have all gay staff and cater to gay men. They are sweet, flirtatious and sexy. The hair cut is about 400 baht and the foot massage is 500 baht and the facials are 500 baht. They do have combination specials and a day of treatment. The boys there are really sweet and fun. They are in a shopping plaza that you will love if you are a golfer as the entire plaza is golf and hair. Not sure why the mix of the 2 but it is fun. The place is located half way between the Silom 4 gay bars and the Papong hooker bars. If you want to spend some afternoon time at Cutey and then head for dinner on Silom 4 and then to the boy bars, this is an easy walk between them all and a fun way to start and end the day. Cutey and Beauty 3rd Floor Thaniya Plaza Silom Bangkok Tel: 02-2321-2315 www.cuteyandbeauty.com

If you are looking for the cutes boys in Bangkok, don't go to the gogo bars, go to the malls. They are there in droves and they are willing to go with you. Not all of them of course but many of them are. Take a look and walk slow and smile often and you will see eye candy galore and more hotties than you can handle. I have had luck every time I go there to pick up and it is usually a college student out from school for the day. They are sweet and speak english. Don't limit yourself only to the bars when in Thailand. More fun can be had than at the bars and massage parlors. Test and try the malls and parks. Your chance of success is not 100% like at the bars but you will do better than you think with the right smile and if you are not shy.

There are some gogo bars on the same soi and the popular Tawan. Tawan is mostly a muscle guy bar. Does nothing for me but I go some time just to see the testosterone. Down the soi is a nice restaurant named Mango Tree. The food is excellent and the price is reasonable. The Tawan soi is one block down from the Tartawan Hotel which is popular with many gay tourists. Next door to Tawan is a Karaoke bar with sexy boys. There are a few massage places in the same soi. Solid is usually a fun place. Tonight, it was 9 guys and 8 were ladyboys and just not happening. Super A boys, the one on top of Solid and just to the right back side of it, was the single most horrible bar I have been into in years. Not one cute boy in the place. An old farang getting sucked by a boy and a dog wandering around and barking. It was a little surreal. Drinks at Solid and Super A are 100 bath. I don't know the off fees. Tawan the drinks were the same as most bars 250 I think it was.