macaroni21

There may be something to the post COVID angle. Some might have put on the kilos and know they won't look good in tight briefs now. But the bigger picture is this: pre or post COVID, the vast majority of people won't be caught dead gyrating away on a stage in underwear, so gogoboys has always been minority vocation. Each cohort in turn had suffered the ravages of age and moved on, to be replaced by the next cohort. Maybe the question is why the new cohort is smaller than the previous. Rising prosperity?

There's another possible reason: the manager and mamasans were all wearing suits. Part of the "higher class" look that they're aiming for, perhaps? They won't feel the cold, and think the airconditioning is just fine, while the boys and customers freeze their male-tits off. In a sense, one can say, even in the simple matter of temperature control, the (misguided) business design has closed off a feedback loop.

In New Twilight, shirts, jeans, shoes. Others reported that they are less dressed (exactly what?) after a certain late hour, but I didn't stay past 11:10pm at most. Can't report on what they wear later in the evening, even if that's the case.

White shorts. And I mean shorts, not bermudas. No shirts.

I can see no reason to visit New Twilight again until it has substantially impoved. Numazu has given a detailed description of the interior in his post of July 18, 2022 (thread: https: // www.gayguides.com/forums/topic/37995-bangkok-trip-report-2022-the-wait-is-over-what-was-i-waiting-for/page/3/). I will just list here my immediate (and similar to others') impressions on entering (about 10pm): Large hall; Quite large stage with underfoot lighting and a massive video screen as backdrop; Ear-piercingly loud music; Cold airconditioning; Seats quite far from stage. Boys were fully dressed in shirts, jeans and shoes. After seating me, papasan informed me: Drink = 350 baht. Off fee 500 baht. Recommended tip for boy 2,000 baht. After 10 minutes, a few more observations: Only eight boys on rotation; Boys were all "standard twinks" (to distinguish them from "skinny twinks"), in their twenties; There were only 3 other customers in the bar at 10pm. There were - 3 or 4 papasans - maybe 5 waiters, - a bar tender, - a DJ, - and one of the former top dancers in Moonlight (there was even a Youtube video that featured his life) whose role was not clear to me, but he was definitely not one of the rotating boys (he could be the choreographer), - a manager, - 2 barkers and greeters at the front door In other words, staff outnumbered customers 4 or 5 to 1 Generally, their rotation boys were (in my estimation at least) almost all quite good looking and of "off-able" quality. However, not a single one made eye contact with customers or smiled. By 10:30, there were about 8 customers (including me). The show began and some cross-dressers came on to lip-sync, with 3 or 4 of the boys as backing dancers. Each lip-sync item was interspersed with another item done only by the same 3 - 4 boys. (Obviously, the other 4 boys didn't want to dance). As the fith and final item, five outsourced street dancers ("B-Boys") did a number. Halfway through the show, one of the customers lit up - so they allow smoking inside - which meant I left as soon as the show was over. The 3 - 4 boys who performed at least did so stripped down to underwear. But no cocks seen. Then at 11pm, rotation resumed and it was fully-clothed boys on stage again. I was on my way out. In my one hour there, I didn't see any customer take an off. In the minutes prior to the showtime, I had the opportunity to talk to a 30-ish guy introduced to me by a papasan as the manager. I wanted to stress to him the absurdity of running a gogo bar with fully-clothed boys and deafening music. We went on to discuss a bit more about the challenges of staying in business. Given the deafening music and language gap, it wasn't easy to maintain a coherent conversation, so all I have a a rough sense, reading between the lines of his responses. He volunteered that their location already put them at a disadvantage; He mentioned something about the difficulty of attracting gogoboys should they insist that they strip down on stage ("Boy don't want to work here."). I would have thought that if that's the boy's position, then this cannot possibly be a vocation for him, but New Twlight might think differently. I tried to ask about tea money and if there were different rates for strip bars versus jeans-and-shirts bars, but got nowhere (or he didn't understand my question); When I asked how they expected to compete against the other bars, especially given their locational disadvantage, he mentioned "But have you seen our show?" The conversation went on a bit following the last point, so I shall summarise my take-aways: They're a bunch of people, starting from the owner down, who somehow think that business success in this sector hinges on a super show. ("Ah, that's why they've spent tons of money building an opera house!", I said to myself). They seem to think that if the show is great, there would be customers, and as a trickle down effect, there would be offs. I would have thought the opposite. Intimacy and contact should be what counts, not dazzle and spectacle. Getting offs for the boys should be the #1 business aim. That means hiring plenty of boys, seducing your customers with lots of skin and keeping prices reasonable. There are many ways to get that boy-customer interaction which gogo bars in Thailand hardly even try: table dancing close up (unlike the opera house distance between seats and stage that they have); private dances (500 baht for 15 minutes in a cabin at the back?); boys circulating among customers and chatting a little bit without immediately demanding that customers buy a boy drink for one minute of hopeless language-barriered "what is your name? where are you from? how long you stay Thailand?" fun games with discounted off-fees as prizes to customers. Coming back to tea money as a possibility for clothed boys. I thought this might be the case at first, but later came to the view this was probably not so. While it is possible that without enough tea money, the powers-that-be might frown on boys parading in underwear, thus compelling them to put on jeans, I can't imagine that the powers-that-be also compel them to put on shirts. I think it's an internal policy of New Twilight. Given the size of their space and the large number of staff relative to customers, the running costs (e.g. airconditioning and wages) must be higher than other bars. Fresh Boys had half the space, 30 boys, 3 mamasans (one doubling up as show MC), one DJ, one bartender, 2 barkers and 3 waiters (total 10 employees) serving easily 25 - 30 customers (as at start of showtime). No cross-dressers for their show, so they don't have to pay for outside talent. And there, I saw at least 3 offs in the half hour before showtime.

Thank you @10tazione

This thought occurred to me too, but it's only one of several possibilities. For now, I think a more likely explanation is that they're trying to emulate the "higher class" bars like Jupiter and Moonlight. Even Dream Boys has their boys in jeans, and New Twilight thinks that this is the way to go. My observation so far is that the bars with the skimpiest dress like Tawan, Freshboys and Hotmale are the ones getting the most offs. Would like to hear others' observations too.

Thanks for the suggestion z909. My google translate of the Thai words above the figure "200" came out as "cut - vowel -set". I think my guess is right... it's the price of a haircut, maybe it also includes wash and dry?

I had a dire need for a haircut, and as I arrived at Saladaeng Station (coming from the airport), I noticed a "David no.5" barbershop right where the steps from the station reach the street level (on the same side of Silom Road as the massage shops). The following morning, I enquired how much a basic haricut would be. The guy at the door said 350 baht. For Thailand this didn't sound right and so I declined. I walked around the Silom area a bit and couldn;t see any other barbershop. Stupid me forgot about the upstairs barbershop on the opposite side of Silom Road which I had patronised many times before. See what Covid does to one's memory of Bangkok? I can't recall what its charges were but I'd be mightily surprised if they were anything like 350 baht. Back in the hotel room, I surfed the net and found a recommendation for a place in Sukhumvit Soi 23 charging "local prices". I went there; it was not hard to find, only about 100m northwards from the junction of Sukhumvit Road and Soi 23, and about two-thirds of the way towards Soi Cowboy. Here's a map and a photo of the shop sign. Lex Barber had 2 barbers working there and no one waiting. So I was attended to immediately. It's an old-fashioned barbershop with nothing fancy, but they gave me a nice enough haircut the old-fashioned way. That's all I needed. I was out of there within 15 - 20 minutes and only 150 baht poorer. Then as life has it, I began to see barbershops all over the place. You know how it is. You look and look for one thing, and as soon as you have found it, you start seeing a similar thing everywhere you turn. Immediately on walking out of Soi 23, I saw a barberhop right across Sukhumvit Road. It's name was "G Club". Hmm, interesting choice of name, I thought, so I crossed the road to take a closer look. And what did I see? On its glass front was its price: 600 baht. Madness! Then on my way to Sabardee Spa, walking from Lumpini MRT station, I saw another barber shop "TJ Design". This one was on the southwest side of Rama 4 Road right where the first overhead bridge is after crossing Soi Ngam Dupli. A paper sign on its door said 200 baht. I can't read the Thai words but I reckon it refers to a haricut. I carried on walking up the overhead bridge, down again and into Soi Plukjit. Not 100 metres into the soi I saw yet another barbershop. Then another, and another. Altogether there were five within a stone's throw of each other. I didn't enquire about their prices, but looking at how they're tucked away behind phone stands, clothes sellers and food stalls in a shantytown, there's no need to ask. Haircut adventures were not what I planned for this visit to Thailand, but it's interesting - and fun! - when it happens. None of the barbershops looked busy. In only one case did a customer walk into one, sit down and begin getting his hair cut while I was taking pictures. A big farang guy went into G Club. Yes, the shop charging 600 baht. And here I was going to write, "I wonder how they stay in business with those prices?"

I visited New Twilight too though I haven't yet had time to write. Numazu's impressions are similar to mine, but I'm more with z909 in terms of opinion. I also spoke with the manager and gained some insight into what business plan they had. They will need very deep pockets to last to the high season given their running costs and their currently poor footfall.

In my case, I think only two that were around on my first visit are still around today: Tawan in Bangkok and BoyzBoyzBoyz in Pattaya. I'm pretty sure about Tawan, but not so sure about the latter. To be frank, I don't even think about the past much. So excuse me if my memory is hazy.

There are roll-down blinds, so boy-du-soir can shower without me ogling and salivating from the side of the glass. 🤣

A few minutes before 10pm when I walked in, Dream Boy had about 30 patrons, making it 75 percent full. Nonetheless, a good seat had opened up and I was shown to it. Two things struck me immediately, though I had been pre-warned by other members here. (1) The boys, while shirtless, were in jeans. (2) The music was loud. The waiter was helpful in explaining the charges without my having to ask. That's good; it suggests a degree of staff training. My drink would be 450 baht, a boy drink would be 400 baht, the off fee would be 500 baht and the recommended tip for short-time was 2,000 baht. I would later ascertain from the chosen boy that his share of the boy drink was 100 baht. There were about 25-30 boys divided into three rotating groups, with an average age over thirty. Some had maintained their form, but not a few were losing the battle with either Covid or the passing years. In the thirty minutes watching the rotation, I could only shortlist four guys whom I might take. For someone like me who is not especially picky and who has a rather broad acceptance range for body types in my partners (also known as "slut"), four out of nearly 30 is a poor ratio. Visits to other bars in the subsequent evenings would confirm that Dream Boys has an aging problem compared to the others. I have no problem with taking a boy over 30, and in my experience, they can be better in bed, being more experienced in the arts of pleasure, but it would be nice if they were in reasonable shape. Watching the scene before the show, a few more things struck me: (3) with years, the boys seemed also to acquire more tattoos. There was one chap with full-body Yakuza-like work. No doubt, an ink aficionado might appreciate the skill and artistry there, but I find large tattoos way too distracting in bed. (4) about all the waiters must have been at least fifty. Perhaps one or two could have been sixty. The show began almost promptly at 10:30pm, by which time the bar was nearly full (about 40 -45 patrons). It had eight "acts". Four were performed by lip-sync cross-dressers, and four by the boys themselves. The music got even louder! The first of the boys' acts had three coyotes, one of which was among my shortlisted four. He turned out to be the best dancer of the lot which was more than enough reason for me to tuck 100 baht into his briefs. He was cheeky. He pulled the briefs open (forward, not down) and guided my hand deep into it till I was able to wrap the red note around his cock. At that moment, I kind of decided that I would off him later, but after the dance item, I saw him go straight to sit with another customer. I was too late! The second of the boys' acts had three guys in briefs, and soon enough, their joeys (baby kangaroos) were poking their little heads out above mamas' pouches. The last of the four boys' acts was a copulation show. I off'd one of the four from my shortlist, but it didn't turn out well. Back in the room, he was in a rush throughout, saying "we cum together" barely five minutes into playtime. All in all, I think he spent less than 40 minutes with me. He's best forgotten, so the less said here, the better.

No one asked to see my vaccination certificate when I checked in for my flight. To my surprise, no one at Suvarnabhumi asked to see my vaccination certificate either, so I entered Thailand with no one knowing that I am fully vaccinated (and boostered). Things are even better than pre-Covid. Although the cabin crew gave out TM-6 arrival cards while we were enroute, and I had dutifully filled out mine, about the first sign I saw as I approached the immigration queue - it wasn't too bad, only about 6 - 7 persons in front of me - was one that said "TM-6 not needed" or something to that effect. So, one fewer piece of paper than pre-Covid. Brought a smile to my face. Travelling light, I decided to take the airport rail link to Phaya Thai. It cost 45 baht. The train was full. By the second or third station after leaving the airport, it was standing room only. At Phaya Thai, the first of the post-Covid hiccups began. I had two Rabbit cards from my previous visits to Thailand. I was quite certain both contained money value, but as it had been more than two years since I last used them, they had since expired. I had to queue up at the customer service counter to get the matter solved. Indeed, the clerk said both had expired but he could reactivate them and the money value would remain intact. That was good. I learned that there was about 140 baht in one card and about 180 baht in the other. In those two years, I had even forgotten what princely sums I had in them. I reached Raya Hotel (thanks to some of you for the recommendation) almost exactly an hour after touch-down. Pulled all the curtains open and took a nice hot shower in the fully transparent shower stall in full view of Bangkok. No better way to announce my arrival.

Oh dear, I fear my opening post might have been made into something it was not intended to be. In any case, as with many things in life, the flux of life (and economics) is seldom amenable to being reduced to a simple dichotomy: good and bad. I didn't mean to give the impression that it's all doom and gloom. In fact, if you read my opening paragraph, you'll see me saying let's get the bad news out of the way. Also, I stressed that we're only 2 weeks out of the Thailand Pass. Am I enjoying myself? Yes, yes and yes. Choices may be more limited than before due to the closures, which may well be compensated for by new openings in due course, but for a short holiday, how many choices do I need? I have only so many days. But I hope in my opening post to have described a baseline post-covid. Perhaps a year later in July 2023, someone will describe the scene then and we (fingers crossed) will have a measure of the improvement and be glad we are here to witness the recovery. And be thankful Thailand offers what we don't get in our home cities.

As many of us would know, Super Rich offered some of the best exchange rates when changing cash. A particularly convenient branch was located on level 3 of Silom Center. It's no more. The next one that I knew of was located at the front of Silom Plaza (what we generally know as the Arena Massage building). So I went there. It too was closed. Fortunately, a tiny currency exchange shop was nearby so I didn't have to go hunting some more. It offered very good rates too. It faces Narathiwat Raja Naga Indra Road, round the corner from Silom Plaza. Still on Narathiwat Road, I remember the old Om Yim hotel. I had good stays there, and loved the fact that it was literally 25 metres from the entrance to Chong Nonsi station. It's long gone, but the unit is still vacant. Closer to our time, Glitz Hotel (at the mouth of Soi Tarntaran) is also gone. As others have reported, Tawan has moved to smaller premises across the street. Meanwhile New Twilight has opened in the dark alley that is called Soi Anuman Ratchathon, directly opposite the infamous dive bar Nature Boy (which I think is now the replacement location for Golden Cock, based on new signage that I saw)... but the way it's going, I think we will be writing an obituary for New Twilight before long. That's for another post though.

Nor have the stalls along Silom and Surawong Roads returned. And quite a few shopfronts are shuttered too. There used to be 6 or 7 massage shops along Silom Road (all of them with a significant number of male staff) east of the Thaniya junction. There are now only 3. There used to be another 5 or 6 massage shops along Surawong Road in the stretch between Patpong Soi 1 and Soi Tarntawan. There are now 3 too. Those three however seemed to have differentiated themselves more starkly. Urban Thai is all-female staff while Green Massage is all male staff (in, confusingly, orange shirts). Only Olivia has mixed gender staff. But take a look at this picture. It's a different stretch of Surawong Road, opposite Raya Hotel, between the alleyway to Moonlight (left edge) and Happy Beer Garden (to the right). It used to be always busy, with every shopfront lit up. The gay part of Patpong Soi 2 looked bright by comparison. But it's only that 50 metres or so. Go a bit further from where the photo was taken and it's forlorn again. As others have reported, Lucky Boys does not look as if it's coming back. Nor Bangkok Massage. To the left of the picture, Screw Boys remains closed. Silom Soi 4 was a bright jewel. Nearly every table was taken; there was a buzz about it that felt good.

Let's begin with the bad news. Hopefully, the later reports will be more cheery. After all, we're only two weeks from Thailand doing away with the Thailand Pass and the insurance requirements. We can't expect tourism businesses to spring back to life that quickly. Nonetheless, one wonders if some things that we were familiar with - so familiar we almost took them for granted - will ever come back. It's been reported by others that Patpong Soi 1 no longer hosts a night market. This is what the street now looks like. I've never been fond of obstruction caused by the stalls, but the dreary look of the street now is even worse. I've never really counted how many girl bars used to operate on that street, except a sense that the number of bars have been declining slowly over the years, but it looks as if only the King's Castle bars have reopened.

Another view of the former soi twilight site:

Oh, I recall now a couple of massage shops on Silom Road under Saladaeng Station that have massage rooms back of their foot-massage lounges. On the ground floor. Sorry, I don't recall their names, but it should be easy enough to pop in to the counter and ask. The thing though is that these are not "full on" erotic massage businesses like Arena and so the level of "extra service" to be had depends a lot on the particular service worker.

It's been some 3 or 4 years since I have been to Arena and here I assume that it is still in the same premises as then, but I think your question isn't so much about reaching Arena from the shopping mall's street level, but is about whether the massage rooms are on the same level as Arena's lobby ( where the masseurs stand in a semi circle to be picked). Your question does bring a vague recollection that they *were* one floor higher than the lobby, but perhaps others with more recent visits can speak with greater certainty. That doesn't mean they might not have a room or two on the same level though... But now that you ask, I'd be hard pressed to name a massage place where the rooms are on the same level as the 'parade lobby'. I can only recall Bangkok Massage during its brief period on Patpong Soi 2. Over in Pattaya, the massage places in Jomtien complex, as I recall, have rooms on the same (ground) floor, but don't take my word for it. It's been a while, and I don't normally pay much attention to this aspect.

Yes, this parallel occurred to me too. The private sector is also prone to this kind of thinking. One saving grace however, may lie in the fact that there are way more hotels than gay bars and competition is fiercer. Another would be how international hotel chains might not want to adopt any such policy for fear of damaging their brand reputation.

No landlord will do any reporting as it may well be self-incriminating. See this article about the legality of AirBnB rentals: https://freshbangkok.com/is-airbnb-illegal-in-thailand/ While this article speaks about how AirBnB rentals rely on the relative neglect of the authorities, the current reality may make it a little riskier. Reader pasted a Bangkok Post story just hours earlier "Lack of flights, rising fuel costs mar revival" (see page 2 of thread Air Fares to Thailand) which mentioned that Thai hotels' average occupancy rate is currently just 34%. They must be bleeding red ink and this may motivate them to complain loudly to the government to put a stop to competition from AirBnBs.

Ha ha, you make it seem as if the stickers were designed for us and our specific interactions.... if only! And judging by Gaybutton's reaction, the stickers only leave us more confused. If they were designed for us, the whole thing would be a major fail. Apparently, the stickers are major revenue-generators for LINE. Users buy sets and sets of them. And the revenue graph at https://www.statista.com/statistics/1227434/most-popular-messenger-apps-worldwide-by-monthly-iap-revenue/ comparing LINE with other messaging apps, is stunning. Other sources of revenue, such as business advertising, contributed a lot too. According to statista, LINE is the top revenue-grossing messaging app in 2021 even though it has big market share in only four countries: Indonesia, Japan, Taiwan, and Thailand. In 2020, it had $1.5 billion in revenue (https://distinguished.io/blog/line-statistics-net-worth). (What's even more surprising from the graph is the absence of WhatsApp. It's not there among the top ten.)

Interesting that you were seeing Chinese tourists already. They must have come via indirect flights, or might they have been Taiwanese? I doubt if resumption of 2 flights a week would make much difference. And the bigger obstacle must be the re-entry requirements into China. Last month, a friend of mine had to return to Hong Kong which is his normal work location, and he described the hotel quarantine arrangements he had to make. I would not want to be in his place. Unfortunately, I can't remember whether he said one week or two weeks. In any case, a quick check with the US and another embassy website indicated that visitors entering China have to do 2 PCR tests - at 48 hours before departure and again at 24 hours before departure plus and an antigen test prior to boarding! Assuming that Chinese citizens returning from a vacation in Thailand must do the same, this - and whatever quarantine they need to endure - makes it difficult to foresee any significant resumption of travel for the Chinese.