macaroni21

Was it My War bar or My Way?

BBC headline: Cambodia shuts border crossings with Thailand as fighting continues https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd0kkyx3vvxo Cambodia has shut its border crossings with Thailand, as fighting continues between the two forces on Saturday despite US President Donald Trump earlier saying they had agreed to a ceasefire. The crossings will be closed until further notice, according to Cambodia's interior ministry. Earlier, Thai Prime Minister Anutin Charnvirakul said he told Trump a ceasefire would only be possible after Cambodia had withdrawn all its forces and removed landmines. Thai officials said four soldiers were killed on Saturday, as both sides reported continued bombing and artillery exchanges. Cambodia has not been updating its military casualty figure. Cambodia's defence ministry said that Thai fighter jets bombed hotel buildings and a bridge, while Thailand reported several civilians were injured in a Cambodian rocket attack. The four deaths on Saturday bring Thailand's total military death toll since Monday to 15, with 270 others injured. It added that six civilians had also been injured. On Friday, Cambodia said at least 11 civilians had been killed and 59 others injured. At least 700,000 people have been evacuated on both sides of the border. [Story continues with mention of Trump but I don't want to give him any attention.] --- I think most Cambodians had left Thailand earlier in the year when the border dispute first surfaced, if I remember threads from earlier. So, closing the border may not make much difference anymore to the bars and massage parlours in terms of staffing.

I should add: Firuzaga Hamam takes credit cards.

Bangkok Post: "Police seized 189 pearling beads in round, cubic, bean, heart, capsule and Chinese bun shapes from his car." I didn't know these beads (mooks) came in different shapes! And from the photo in the newspaper, in different colours!

Just a quick report about Firuzaga Hamam before I forget. The visit was in the second half of November. I can't remember what time I arrived but it was after dark; could have been 6pm. The place was quite busy in that there were always customers in every part of the hammam. Whilst the majority seemed to be local, there were some English-speaking customers as well, including at least three East-Asian-looking guys during the time I was there. It's a traditional hammam with walls and floor tiles over a century old. Don't expect any luxury. It's also quite small, but enough. On entry, I was assigned a private changing room. Later, I noticed that there were lockers upstairs, so apparently one can choose whether to have a room or a locker. Not sure what the price differential is. Beyond the front room (the private changing rooms led off it) which also served as the tea room, the wet areas included one main steam room, two washing rooms, two dry saunas, and smaller side rooms for body scrub, Up one floor were the lockers and massage rooms. The attendents noticed straight away that I looked a bit too long at their menu of services, and so, of course, I must be interested! If I recall correctly, it was 400 lira for entry, 200 lira for "peeling" (body scrub) 15 minutes; 650 lira for oil massage 35 minutes; and 200 lira for soapy wash 15 minutes. One guy (Murad) latched on to me and that was a negative, because I had wanted to sit longer in the steam room to sweat it out, and observe the goings on before getting serviced. But he came to me barely 3 or 4 minutes after I had finished washing myself to say it's time for the scrub. I had barely begun to sweat; the steam wasn't that hot. The scrub was done with a rough mitten (good) and was quite thorough (in terms of area coverage), though Islamic modesty being what it is, the groin was not scrubbed at all. After being washed down, I was led upstairs to a massage room where he gave an fairly good massage with firmness and consistency. Nothing suggestive at all. In fact, he didn't close the massage room door, but only a curtain made for privacy. Then downstairs again where he performed the classic Turkish soap wash. I've had this before, the traditional way including slapping, but Murad did not slap. All done, he said I was free to use the steam room for as long as I wished, which was sequentially illogical. I should have been given time to sweat it out and open my pores first before services were provided. Anyway, I still spent another 15 minutes or so in the main steam room, observing the goings on. The bottom line: a bit of suggestiveness, but I don't know if anything can really go on because there simply is no private space. OK, maybe there is the private changing room which comes with a very narrow bunk, but if two men have entered the same changing room together, it would be terribly visible to the attendants and other customers in the front room. What was unusual was that, in the wet areas, some customers were "careless" about covering up while walking around, which was not something I'd seen in other hamams. They could have been foreigners rather than locals; I couldn't tell. Overall, it's good value for money although whether other attendants give as good a massage as Murad I do not know. The total I paid, including 20 lira more for a cold drink from the fridge was 1,470 lira which was about 30 euros. I think I spent a total of about 90 minutes inside. Getting there: I Uber'd. But when I finished, I walked downhill (not steep) to main road that parallels the coast and where the tram runs. So it should be easy enough to reach via tram.

Speaking of phoenix, I just realized that I have not been receiving Line feeds from them for months. Has there Line ID changed?

I am glad to hear of this (and I can see that it's done with a gender bending twist) because it possibly proves what I've been saying for years. There's "cultural homosexuality" and there's erotic homosexuality. (Personally I don't like the term "cultural homosexuality" but it wasn't invented by me.) By that it means the performance of gender bending for its entertainment value. It can attract straight audiences who like the "fun" of transgressive entertainment with perhaps slight risque-ness. However, gender bending can only go so far, ultimately the roles of active/ passive, macho/fem cannot be totally subverted as it gets too uncomfortable for straight audiences. And no erect penises please! Bars should choose whether they're in the cultural homosexuality business or the erotic homosexuality business (which is largely off-putting to straight or lesbian audiences). They can be successful at either. What too many bars in Thailand do wrong is that they try to be both, which is a bad neither here nor there formula.

The same can be asked: it's 2025: why isn't the Australian/US/British education system teaching Chinese? Let's not get too anglo-centric here.

This is useful data. Albeit that it's a small sample, yet one in six flights arrived about 30 minutes late. @jimmie50 was right to choose a later connection rather than risk it. The variance between 5:04 and 6:14 is quite notable.

You'd be surprised how many would tip handsomely (a.k.a throw money at) such guys for mere "look-not-touch". It amazes me all the time.

Giving yourself only one hour is asking for trouble. Please do not assume that flights, even on the best airlines, arrive on time. The number of times that I have experienced a delayed departure from a US airport is beyond counting. It's not the fault of even the best airline. It's the sheer unremitting craziness at US airports. All it takes is a 30-minute delay in departure from SFO, and your one-hour is gone. If I remember correctly, Changi Airport closes gates 30 minutes before the scheduled take-off time. So, what you think is one hour is only 30 minutes to make the transfer. Moreover, I've flown good airlines which have had to fly against unexpectedly strong headwinds, or told by air traffic control at destination to circle around due to congestion, leading to delayed arrival. In an 18-hour flight, a five percent delay due to headwinds or circling around means fity-minutes additional flying time. Giving yourself only one hour is a decision you will regret. The more important question is how long you will need to not suffer a heart attack if even a small thing goes wrong. And that depends on the answers to @thaiophilus questions. If yours is a through-ticket SFO to BKK via SIN, brought directly from Singapore Airlines, then you can check your luggage all the way to Bangkok. All you need to worry about is to allow time for these: 1. Disembark (how long depends on whether your're on Business Class or Economy Class, and the size of the aircraft but personally, I plan for 15 minutes, because I have known planes going around in circles looking for the right gate - Schipol, I am looking at you!). Or the plane is parked remotely and passengers have to wait for the bus. 2. You'd probably want to do a quick freshening up if you're flying Economy. Allow another 15 minutes. 3. Get yourself to the other terminal. Allow 15 - 30 minutes (you may get lost and have to retrace your steps, allow for that!) 4. Go through hand-luggage security (Changi Airport does this at individual boarding gates, not upon entry into the airside of the airport, unlike most other cities). Allow 15 - 30 minutes. All the above must be done at least 30 minutes before the scheduled departure time of the connecting flight. If it were me, I would allow a minimum of 2.5 hours. I'd rather have extra time with a coffee (after an 18-hour flight) than have to rush around under stress. --- If yours is NOT a through ticket bought from the same airline (i.e. if you bought SFO-SIN and SIN-BKK as separate purchases) then it gets even more complicated. This is because I think you won't be able to check your luggage through to Bangkok. Maybe others can chip in, because I have never done this (NOT buying a through ticket and somehow expecting a quick transfer). If you have to retrieve your luggage in Singapore and check in again for the SIN-BKK flight, then I suspect you will have to enter Singapore through Immigration, go to the bags carousels, wait/retrieve your bags, find your way to the other terminal, find the Departure floor, check in for your BKK flight, go through Immigration again, find your gate, go through hand luggage security.... all this must be done at least 30 minutes before the scheduled departure of the Bangkok flight. But as I said, I don't have personal experience even trying this kind of thing, so maybe others can advise better. How long will you need then? Hard for me to say because I'm not sure if my assumptionns about the process are correct. However, I think @jimmie50 was probably referring to a through ticket, so all this may be moot.

To remain thematically consistent, staff at Jungle Boy should be in loincloths like Tarzan of venerable fame.

And what value does this create for customers other than to enjoy (for the time being) soft cushions with new fabric under one's bum?

These two are connected in a way I've been saying for years. Bars should learn from this and should offer fun experiences with personal interactions for affordable fees instead of depending solely on winning the jackpot of getting offs. The price of an off may be too high and the majority-Asian male visitors baulk at the rates. So, the bars try to pull in women -- but they like conversation, drinking and attention (and they spoil the gay vibe of the brand) rather than offing. For the bars, I have recently mentioned (again) the mystery of why private lap dances are not available as options. And as @vinapu has said, this notion of a fashion-parade-type catwalk with unsmiling models is senseless. It appears to be geared to women though. Psychologically, women feel a bit threatened when men smile at them uninvited, so the "modus operandi" of catwalking has developed this look-into-the-distance style. And Thai-style management simply copies, not known for thinking critically outside the box. I feel sorry for the boys. The bars' business goals (sell drinks) destroy their livers, yet give them little income. They're really better off working in massage places (where boys can average 3 customers a day at 1,500 - 2,000 baht per customer) than in bars. Long-time visitors to Bangkok like us may not be put off by such bad branding, but the test is whether newer visitors can feel welcome in such a vibe, and whether the experience is affordable or value for money.

Is there some way to move this thread to the Malaysia forum so that in future other readers planning to go there can see this story? From a social media post by someone I know who is Malaysian, I am hearing that it is the well-known Otot otot sauna, which has been operating for years. Why now, I wonder?

For a while he used to work in Hotmale. He's chatty and friendly.

Found its website. But one page there intrigued me. What on earth does this (with marked prices) mean?

I have been following the news on this, and among the commentaries I have read (can't remember which one now) there was a truly sobering comment: the whole notion that the way to evacuate people in a fire is through the fire stairs has been called into question. These were 30-storey blocks. There must have been many elderly persons for whom going down 30 flights of stairs in a state of near panic would be physically impossible. Weak knees, weak hearts, poor eyesight.... Having been in a fire twice in my life, I don't fancy taking any risks. Silom Soi 2 is one alley I do not venture into. There was also one hotel in Vientiane which shocked me. I was returning to the hotel via a shortcut, which route took me past the side of the building where the exit of the fire stairs was. It was also where the back door of a restaurant was. And in the 2 metres of wall between one door and the next were cylinders and cylinders of cooking gas. Taking the fire stairs might lead you straight to an inferno of exploding gas cylinders.

There was a Nepali guy working at the now-defunct Tawan a few years back. And a tailor shop up Silom Road that I have used on a few occasions has Nepalis on its staff.

@Olddaddy you realise, I hope, that one sentence contradicts the other. 🤣

OK, so I made a quick search on rent.men filtered for Bangkok. The majority of the listings are not Thai. They seem to be "working" tourists, expecting to earn their way around the world. Is there a market for them? Possibly. LIke in all cities, even in darkest Africa, there are the One Percent who are filthy rich, and who may want the thrill of reeling in a callboy of exotic ethnicity plus muscular build. A friend of mine who used to live in Hong Kong once told me white girls (mostly Russian) were successfully charging US$500 to 1,000 per hour in the city. Plenty of rich Chinese businessmen from Shanghai or other mainland cities made up the clientele. (He's straight, so he had no knowledge of the the male-male market). Even among Thai sex workers, asking for 5,000 baht or 10,000 baht (US$300) is not unheard of. Personally, I cannot see how paying three to six times the knocking shop rate delivers three to six times the pleasure, but then I am not a member of the One Percent.

Thanks for elaborating. Excepting the case of Toy Boys (which I wasn't aware of) what you're describing isn't what I thought you were saying - that the boys were expecting Asian customers to pay more than farang customers. What you're describing is the well-known phenomenon where asking the mamasan about rates begets inflated figures. Many here have long suspected that the higher rate quoted is because she builds in an extra 1,000 for herself on top of the going rate, and she will demand her cut from the boy the next day. It just so happens, if I read you correctly, that Asian customers may be more likely to refer to the mamasan than white customers, though my observation is that the situation is not as simple as a cursory reading of your description might suggest. It's true, I have personally seen mamasans in action in exactly the way you describe. In fact, I wrote about one such instance (with a customer from China) in Pouffes ahoy at Fresh Boy. But I wouldn't suggest that it's a race thing. It's just a confluence of various factors, starting with the fact that perhaps 90% of customers in gogo bars are Asian visitors; many customers (whether East Asian, Southeast Asian, South Asian, Arab, European, or Latin American) are first-time visitors to Thailand and don't know how to negotiate directly with the desired boy (between the boy's weak English and the Asian visitor's weak English, it gets doubly hard); and so it will be unsurprising that most instances when we see mamasans over-quoting the rate to a customer, it will involve an Asian customer. Our observations are skewed by the statistical fact that the great majority of visitors to the gogo bars are Asian. I have seen European visitors ask the mamasan too about rates; they are probably new or infrequent visitors to Thailand, but European customers (both new and wizened) in gogo bars are uncommon. Mamasans are not going to suddenly become non-greedy just because it's a farang customer asking.

Can anybody here imagine these Jomtien Complex bars making money? Maybe the most profitable business is that of a redecorator, considering the way these bars come and go.

The bar under Hotmale is Midnight bar; it is not under Fresh Boys. All the other open-front bars in the area are either for men interested in boobs or men interested in getting sloshed. The "older Thai gentleman" you refer to is probably a barker for Hotmale, Fresh Boys or Dream Boy. Likely, there are more than one taking his job seriously.

First time that I am hearing this. Any idea what the rationale is? When you speak of "ST" it seems that you're referring to boys from the gogo bars; not the massage places. And are you referring to Pattaya or Bangkok or both?