macaroni21

There are roll-down blinds, so boy-du-soir can shower without me ogling and salivating from the side of the glass. 🤣

A few minutes before 10pm when I walked in, Dream Boy had about 30 patrons, making it 75 percent full. Nonetheless, a good seat had opened up and I was shown to it. Two things struck me immediately, though I had been pre-warned by other members here. (1) The boys, while shirtless, were in jeans. (2) The music was loud. The waiter was helpful in explaining the charges without my having to ask. That's good; it suggests a degree of staff training. My drink would be 450 baht, a boy drink would be 400 baht, the off fee would be 500 baht and the recommended tip for short-time was 2,000 baht. I would later ascertain from the chosen boy that his share of the boy drink was 100 baht. There were about 25-30 boys divided into three rotating groups, with an average age over thirty. Some had maintained their form, but not a few were losing the battle with either Covid or the passing years. In the thirty minutes watching the rotation, I could only shortlist four guys whom I might take. For someone like me who is not especially picky and who has a rather broad acceptance range for body types in my partners (also known as "slut"), four out of nearly 30 is a poor ratio. Visits to other bars in the subsequent evenings would confirm that Dream Boys has an aging problem compared to the others. I have no problem with taking a boy over 30, and in my experience, they can be better in bed, being more experienced in the arts of pleasure, but it would be nice if they were in reasonable shape. Watching the scene before the show, a few more things struck me: (3) with years, the boys seemed also to acquire more tattoos. There was one chap with full-body Yakuza-like work. No doubt, an ink aficionado might appreciate the skill and artistry there, but I find large tattoos way too distracting in bed. (4) about all the waiters must have been at least fifty. Perhaps one or two could have been sixty. The show began almost promptly at 10:30pm, by which time the bar was nearly full (about 40 -45 patrons). It had eight "acts". Four were performed by lip-sync cross-dressers, and four by the boys themselves. The music got even louder! The first of the boys' acts had three coyotes, one of which was among my shortlisted four. He turned out to be the best dancer of the lot which was more than enough reason for me to tuck 100 baht into his briefs. He was cheeky. He pulled the briefs open (forward, not down) and guided my hand deep into it till I was able to wrap the red note around his cock. At that moment, I kind of decided that I would off him later, but after the dance item, I saw him go straight to sit with another customer. I was too late! The second of the boys' acts had three guys in briefs, and soon enough, their joeys (baby kangaroos) were poking their little heads out above mamas' pouches. The last of the four boys' acts was a copulation show. I off'd one of the four from my shortlist, but it didn't turn out well. Back in the room, he was in a rush throughout, saying "we cum together" barely five minutes into playtime. All in all, I think he spent less than 40 minutes with me. He's best forgotten, so the less said here, the better.

No one asked to see my vaccination certificate when I checked in for my flight. To my surprise, no one at Suvarnabhumi asked to see my vaccination certificate either, so I entered Thailand with no one knowing that I am fully vaccinated (and boostered). Things are even better than pre-Covid. Although the cabin crew gave out TM-6 arrival cards while we were enroute, and I had dutifully filled out mine, about the first sign I saw as I approached the immigration queue - it wasn't too bad, only about 6 - 7 persons in front of me - was one that said "TM-6 not needed" or something to that effect. So, one fewer piece of paper than pre-Covid. Brought a smile to my face. Travelling light, I decided to take the airport rail link to Phaya Thai. It cost 45 baht. The train was full. By the second or third station after leaving the airport, it was standing room only. At Phaya Thai, the first of the post-Covid hiccups began. I had two Rabbit cards from my previous visits to Thailand. I was quite certain both contained money value, but as it had been more than two years since I last used them, they had since expired. I had to queue up at the customer service counter to get the matter solved. Indeed, the clerk said both had expired but he could reactivate them and the money value would remain intact. That was good. I learned that there was about 140 baht in one card and about 180 baht in the other. In those two years, I had even forgotten what princely sums I had in them. I reached Raya Hotel (thanks to some of you for the recommendation) almost exactly an hour after touch-down. Pulled all the curtains open and took a nice hot shower in the fully transparent shower stall in full view of Bangkok. No better way to announce my arrival.

Oh dear, I fear my opening post might have been made into something it was not intended to be. In any case, as with many things in life, the flux of life (and economics) is seldom amenable to being reduced to a simple dichotomy: good and bad. I didn't mean to give the impression that it's all doom and gloom. In fact, if you read my opening paragraph, you'll see me saying let's get the bad news out of the way. Also, I stressed that we're only 2 weeks out of the Thailand Pass. Am I enjoying myself? Yes, yes and yes. Choices may be more limited than before due to the closures, which may well be compensated for by new openings in due course, but for a short holiday, how many choices do I need? I have only so many days. But I hope in my opening post to have described a baseline post-covid. Perhaps a year later in July 2023, someone will describe the scene then and we (fingers crossed) will have a measure of the improvement and be glad we are here to witness the recovery. And be thankful Thailand offers what we don't get in our home cities.

As many of us would know, Super Rich offered some of the best exchange rates when changing cash. A particularly convenient branch was located on level 3 of Silom Center. It's no more. The next one that I knew of was located at the front of Silom Plaza (what we generally know as the Arena Massage building). So I went there. It too was closed. Fortunately, a tiny currency exchange shop was nearby so I didn't have to go hunting some more. It offered very good rates too. It faces Narathiwat Raja Naga Indra Road, round the corner from Silom Plaza. Still on Narathiwat Road, I remember the old Om Yim hotel. I had good stays there, and loved the fact that it was literally 25 metres from the entrance to Chong Nonsi station. It's long gone, but the unit is still vacant. Closer to our time, Glitz Hotel (at the mouth of Soi Tarntaran) is also gone. As others have reported, Tawan has moved to smaller premises across the street. Meanwhile New Twilight has opened in the dark alley that is called Soi Anuman Ratchathon, directly opposite the infamous dive bar Nature Boy (which I think is now the replacement location for Golden Cock, based on new signage that I saw)... but the way it's going, I think we will be writing an obituary for New Twilight before long. That's for another post though.

Nor have the stalls along Silom and Surawong Roads returned. And quite a few shopfronts are shuttered too. There used to be 6 or 7 massage shops along Silom Road (all of them with a significant number of male staff) east of the Thaniya junction. There are now only 3. There used to be another 5 or 6 massage shops along Surawong Road in the stretch between Patpong Soi 1 and Soi Tarntawan. There are now 3 too. Those three however seemed to have differentiated themselves more starkly. Urban Thai is all-female staff while Green Massage is all male staff (in, confusingly, orange shirts). Only Olivia has mixed gender staff. But take a look at this picture. It's a different stretch of Surawong Road, opposite Raya Hotel, between the alleyway to Moonlight (left edge) and Happy Beer Garden (to the right). It used to be always busy, with every shopfront lit up. The gay part of Patpong Soi 2 looked bright by comparison. But it's only that 50 metres or so. Go a bit further from where the photo was taken and it's forlorn again. As others have reported, Lucky Boys does not look as if it's coming back. Nor Bangkok Massage. To the left of the picture, Screw Boys remains closed. Silom Soi 4 was a bright jewel. Nearly every table was taken; there was a buzz about it that felt good.

Let's begin with the bad news. Hopefully, the later reports will be more cheery. After all, we're only two weeks from Thailand doing away with the Thailand Pass and the insurance requirements. We can't expect tourism businesses to spring back to life that quickly. Nonetheless, one wonders if some things that we were familiar with - so familiar we almost took them for granted - will ever come back. It's been reported by others that Patpong Soi 1 no longer hosts a night market. This is what the street now looks like. I've never been fond of obstruction caused by the stalls, but the dreary look of the street now is even worse. I've never really counted how many girl bars used to operate on that street, except a sense that the number of bars have been declining slowly over the years, but it looks as if only the King's Castle bars have reopened.

Another view of the former soi twilight site:

Oh, I recall now a couple of massage shops on Silom Road under Saladaeng Station that have massage rooms back of their foot-massage lounges. On the ground floor. Sorry, I don't recall their names, but it should be easy enough to pop in to the counter and ask. The thing though is that these are not "full on" erotic massage businesses like Arena and so the level of "extra service" to be had depends a lot on the particular service worker.

It's been some 3 or 4 years since I have been to Arena and here I assume that it is still in the same premises as then, but I think your question isn't so much about reaching Arena from the shopping mall's street level, but is about whether the massage rooms are on the same level as Arena's lobby ( where the masseurs stand in a semi circle to be picked). Your question does bring a vague recollection that they *were* one floor higher than the lobby, but perhaps others with more recent visits can speak with greater certainty. That doesn't mean they might not have a room or two on the same level though... But now that you ask, I'd be hard pressed to name a massage place where the rooms are on the same level as the 'parade lobby'. I can only recall Bangkok Massage during its brief period on Patpong Soi 2. Over in Pattaya, the massage places in Jomtien complex, as I recall, have rooms on the same (ground) floor, but don't take my word for it. It's been a while, and I don't normally pay much attention to this aspect.

Yes, this parallel occurred to me too. The private sector is also prone to this kind of thinking. One saving grace however, may lie in the fact that there are way more hotels than gay bars and competition is fiercer. Another would be how international hotel chains might not want to adopt any such policy for fear of damaging their brand reputation.

No landlord will do any reporting as it may well be self-incriminating. See this article about the legality of AirBnB rentals: https://freshbangkok.com/is-airbnb-illegal-in-thailand/ While this article speaks about how AirBnB rentals rely on the relative neglect of the authorities, the current reality may make it a little riskier. Reader pasted a Bangkok Post story just hours earlier "Lack of flights, rising fuel costs mar revival" (see page 2 of thread Air Fares to Thailand) which mentioned that Thai hotels' average occupancy rate is currently just 34%. They must be bleeding red ink and this may motivate them to complain loudly to the government to put a stop to competition from AirBnBs.

Ha ha, you make it seem as if the stickers were designed for us and our specific interactions.... if only! And judging by Gaybutton's reaction, the stickers only leave us more confused. If they were designed for us, the whole thing would be a major fail. Apparently, the stickers are major revenue-generators for LINE. Users buy sets and sets of them. And the revenue graph at https://www.statista.com/statistics/1227434/most-popular-messenger-apps-worldwide-by-monthly-iap-revenue/ comparing LINE with other messaging apps, is stunning. Other sources of revenue, such as business advertising, contributed a lot too. According to statista, LINE is the top revenue-grossing messaging app in 2021 even though it has big market share in only four countries: Indonesia, Japan, Taiwan, and Thailand. In 2020, it had $1.5 billion in revenue (https://distinguished.io/blog/line-statistics-net-worth). (What's even more surprising from the graph is the absence of WhatsApp. It's not there among the top ten.)

Interesting that you were seeing Chinese tourists already. They must have come via indirect flights, or might they have been Taiwanese? I doubt if resumption of 2 flights a week would make much difference. And the bigger obstacle must be the re-entry requirements into China. Last month, a friend of mine had to return to Hong Kong which is his normal work location, and he described the hotel quarantine arrangements he had to make. I would not want to be in his place. Unfortunately, I can't remember whether he said one week or two weeks. In any case, a quick check with the US and another embassy website indicated that visitors entering China have to do 2 PCR tests - at 48 hours before departure and again at 24 hours before departure plus and an antigen test prior to boarding! Assuming that Chinese citizens returning from a vacation in Thailand must do the same, this - and whatever quarantine they need to endure - makes it difficult to foresee any significant resumption of travel for the Chinese.

Responding to the original post: In all the times that I have been in Thailand, I can't recall an occasion when the foot massager assigned to me was a ladyboy. Most of the time, they are quite clearly straight lads. But if I was put on the spot like you were by a foot massager going on about tips, I would probably have stopped the session midway and spoken to the manager, asking for a change. At the very least, I would speak to the manager before I left even if I chose to let the session continue. I believe the key question was how much to tip under such circumstances. I wouldn't tip. I agree with z909: "there's a moral obligation to NOT tip bad service, as it means behaviour will continue unchanged and other customers will suffer." It is irrelevant whether the foot massager gets a sort of salary from the shop or not, though my information from two of these workers some years back was that they do. These two were unusual in that they were not straight lads, and were more than happy to meet after work and provide erotic services in my hotel room, where I took the opportunity to ask them about the business model in foot massage shops. It's irrelevant too how poor their families are. I am not in Thailand to perform charity. If I buy a service, they should provide it to satisfaction. Responding to the discussion about how much to tip in normal circumstances: If my memory serves me, the typical one hour foot massage would be priced at 250 - 400 baht, depending on how touristy the location is. My rule of thumb is to tip the worker 50% to 100% of the listed price. In theory, quality of service should determine whether it's closer to 50% or 100%, but, to be frank, I don't really know how to judge quality for foot massages. The dirty secret is probably how handsome the foot massager is, and how friendly he is. Did my heart flutter? is the test. A pretty face, nice bod and a sweet smile may well raise the quality rating in my estimation, haha. Which also means that if I was assigned a female worker she'd never make it past the bare 50%. Nothing would have fluttered and she could never be pretty enough. 🤪

If Winner bar has a viable business model, they really should get out of Sunee; the dreariness of the neighbourhood will put a ceiling to their customer traffic and revenue. There must be plenty of vacant shoplots, if not in the Boyztown soi, then in the adjacent sois, e.g. where A-bomb is. That said, the Boyztown area will not have the al fresco space that the Sunee area has, but some shoplots have balconies. The pity is that the Jomtien Complex does not allow gogo bars.

I would also be keen to learn from you about the scene in both Hanoi and HCMC, but I would suggest that the threads - separate threads by city or type of services - be in the Gay Vietnam forum so that they will be easier to find in future and be more useful to members.

I recognise the slab tower block and the name of the soi (phluk jit). There are several blocks like this in the area, beneath one of which is/was a row of massage parlours. I have had good times there and I hope the businesses are not impaired by the incident.

What, may I ask, is the alternative to getting old that is worse?

It's interesting to see how variable our routines are, and how they've shifted as one passes through the decades. Since, more often than not, my visits to Thailand are linked to work, my days in Bangkok have a different rhythm from the extra weekends that I manage to tack on in order to escape to Pattaya. In Bangkok my hours will largely be dictated by the needs of meetings, at least in the day, but it also means that I really cannot stay up late if I have appointments the following morning. It's no big loss; I am well past the age when I had any interest in dancing through the night. As will be obvious, doing sleepovers with an escort (a.k.a "long time") is also out of the question. Which is no great loss either. I've done that in the past and found little real value in it to compensate for the morning inconvenience when boy needs to sleep and I need to be up and out. When I manage to add some extra days in Pattaya, it is to escape Bangkok. My sleep pattern then changes. I catch up on sleep and may not rise till 10 or 11 am. After a cup of coffee, I will likely be off to spend the entire afternoon on the beach, reading a book and/or watching people. It's my alone-time. Brunch/lunch is also a light meal at the beach. In my view there's not much to do in Pattaya in the daytime anyway. That's fine for me. I am there to unwind. As evening approaches, I get busier. A massage as the sun goes down, then dinner, then I hit the bars and go hunting for a companion (short time). I see discussion in this forum about places like Dragon where the party doesn't peak till 3 or 4 am. That's not for me. Never really was -- and I've been to several of its predecessors. I am not a good drinker and I've always found the noise level too loud. Not my scene. So, even with a good lad from a gogo bar for short-time, I should be able to get into bed no later than 2 or 2:30 am. That would mean some 8 - 9 hours of sleep before the next day.

The idea of the guy(s) having newborn grandchildren actually gives me a warm feeling. I hope the income he earned from me and others - White spa was reportedly very popular in its heyday - gave him a good start in life.

They are still showing guys from Prince Spa....

I have actually been to 2 places in this general area, plus minus 1 or 2 kilometres. One was the first location for Hero, or at least the location before they moved to Sukhumvit Soi 11. The other was White Spa. Indeed the travelling time didn't make it all that worthwhile though even today I remember the fantastic massage I had at White Spa. That might have been in the 1990s or early 2000s.

But I want to see the boy douche himself properly...

Vinapu - your "only once" assessment is probably correct. You may discover that he spends most of your short time hour or hour-and-half admiring himself in the mirror, haha. I speak from experience with one such guy some years ago.