Pope Francis Dies

[PeterRS]

I have twice visited the Sistine Chapel - once before and once after the restoration of Botticelli's and Perugino's end-wall fresco and Michelangelo's stunning ceiling frescos. But until I saw this Associated Press photo today, I never associated it with the deliberations to elect a new Pope. The frescos dominating the space are so awesome in their power and magnificence the chairs laid out for the cardinals seem almost for ants. I wonder how they can concentrate on the serious business at hand when there is so  much to see and be amazed by in those frescos. The sense of space is also much greater than I can remember.

Of course we do have to remember that the frescos and indeed the chapel itself is not merely a work of art, it is an exercise in propaganda intended to convey the magnificence and the permanence of the Catholic Church. That Church was at that time riven with controversy. The 'heresy' of Martin Luther and the split with Henry VIII of England essentially founding two new religions. The instigation of the Inquisition and in most cases its horrific consequences. The flowering of the Renaissance with its glance backwards to a golden age before Christ. The sack of Rome in 1527 by troops commanded by the Holy Roman Emperor. Then, after all the frescos were finished, the election of Paul IV in 1555 which was a total disaster for moderates in the Church. But at least it had the Sistine Chapel as the centre of the glory to its God.

photo: Associated Press/The Guardian

[PeterRS]

Black smoke this morning, so Trump is still not Pope! 🤣

[KeepItReal]

Pope Leo is the new kid on the block.  Elected today...his first speech is already on the books.

[Keithambrose]

4 hours ago, KeepItReal said:

Pope Leo is the new kid on the block.  Elected today...his first speech is already on the books.

I imagine  Trump  will claim credit for his election!

[vinapu]

1 hour ago, Keithambrose said:

I imagine  Trump  will claim credit for his election!

his first response was surprisingly dignified and presidential 

[PeterRS]

2 hours ago, vinapu said:

his first response was surprisingly dignified and presidential 

Sadly, when the Pope starts criticising Trump's policies, it won't last. His first words included the phrase "Evil shall not prevail."

[floridarob]

16 hours ago, vinapu said:

his first response was surprisingly dignified and presidential 

was he silent.....

[PeterRS]

When I heard the new Pope is American, my thoughts flooded back to all the abuse scandals and how the Catholic Church went to massive efforts and spent loads of cash to hush them up. That was unfair! I had not known about the new Pope's years of work with the poor in Peru and then that Pope Francis himself had clearly admired him by making him a Cardinal only two years ago. He deserves time to show us how his Papacy will evolve. Hopefuly it will be similar to that of Francis.

But symbols are important. I believe the second thing he should have done after first conducting Mass in the Sistine Chapel was be driven at whatever hour of the night to Santa Maria Maggiore to pray at the tomb of Pope Francis. Nothing would have told the world in simpler terms that he intended to continue Francis' mission.

Second, will he, like Francis, avoid the grand Papal apartments and sleep in the priests' guest house? Is he really a man of the people? Only time will tell.

But I also have to add another symbol - he is American. No matter his many admirable and praiseworthy years of service spent among the poor in Peru, he was brought up with American values. Every psychiatrist, psychologist, psychoanalyst and psycho-whatever will tell you that the values instilled in us as children rarely disappear other than into the recesses of our minds. Changing those inner belief systems is a hugely complex affair.

Then there is the American media onslaught on his family. The world in general never knew that Francis had a living sister until after his death. Yet a day after his election, we have worldwide interviews with Leo's brother and with Joe Aurelio at Aurelio's Pizza where he dined some months before his election - Aurelio even had the gall to say "he blessed us all just by being here!" Portillo's restaurant has added a new Italian Beef Sandwhich named "The Leo". There are even T-shirts now on sale naming him "Da Pope".

The Wiener's Circle, an alleged famed hot dog stand in Lincoln Park known for its viral insults and profanities, also debuted a new sign -

"Canes nostros ipse comedit," it says. Being transated that means, "He has eaten our dogs!" How utterly disgraceful!

We now all know he's always been a White Sox baseball fan! Michael Murphy, director of the Hank Center for the Catholic Intellectual Heritage at Loyola University, just added to the tackiness “(Prevost) is a bridge builder, since his mom was a Cubs fan, his dad was a Cardinals fan, but as a true South Sider he’s a Sox fan.”

The Pope is a bridge builder because of baseball team rivalry? May the good Lord above spare us from further such total irrelevancies! Yet because this is America, it will continue for a long time to come!

https://www.yahoo.com/news/chicago-loudly-proudly-claims-homegrown-235100327.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

[PeterRS]

Being American, it was almost predestined to happen. After the praise and adulation for an American Pope, now come the recriminations against the Church. No matter that Pope Leo might have had nothing to do with the abuses and the diatribes against homosexuality and abortion, for example, he cannot escape them. He was after all not always based in Peru as some of the media seem to have suggested. He received his Masters Degree in Chicago in 1982. Only part of his time thereafter was spent as a missionary in Peru. He returned full time to Chicago in 1999 for 15 years before going back to Peru as Bishop of Chiclayo. Pope Francis brought him to Rome in 2023 to assume the presidency of the Pontifical Commission for Latin America.

One who does not like Leo is Trump's pal Steve Bannen. "He's the worst pick for MAGA Catholics!" Which problably shoots him way up the rankings in most of the rest of the world! Laura Loomer, the far-right American conspiracy theorist and general nut case, accuses him of being "anti-Trump, anti-MAGA, pro open borders and a total marxist like Pope Francis." Another ringing endorsement sure to please most! 

More seriously, though, he will have to deal some of the scandals which happened more or less under his watch. What we know so far is that he is regarded as a moderate, although one more open to dialogue that perhaps his predecessor was. He is passionate about helping migrants and the poor, about climate change. On the still pressing matter of sexual abuse, he faces some difficulty. Survivors and advocacy groups claim that he failed to act on serious child abuse claims. The abuse is alleged to have happened during his tenure in both Chicago and Peru.

The Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests (SNAP) and other advocacy groups have expressed deep concern over Leo's past handling of cases. SNAP had given evidence to the cardinals who entered the Conclave about his alleged inaction. “This person will be scrutinized from left to right. That’s helpful for victims everywhere because we have this pope who will be under the public eye in terms of things he was involved with in the past,” said Lopez de Casas, himself a victim of abuse. He added, “Staying silent is a sin. It’s not what God wants us to do."

In the early 2000s, he allegedly permitted a priest suspended as a result of serious abuse charges to stay in a Friary close to an elementary Catholic parish school. Despite alarm among school officials, the priest remained there for 2 years.  According to reports Leo did not inform the school.

Later in Peru he was allegedly notified of allegations of serious abuse by two priests but failed to take any action. Although the two young sisters involved spoke directly to Leo in April 2022, the case was dropped for lack of evidence and expiry of the statute of limitations.

Then there is Leo's position on homosexuality. Pope Francis did probably as much as he could do to welcome LGBTQ members into the Church's community. He stated it was not up to him to judge a person's sexuality. Leo has not gone nearly as far. In a 2012 Address to Bishops, he said he was pained that Western media and society created "sympathy for beliefs and practices that are at odds with the gospel," citing "homosexual lifestyle" and "alternative families comprised of same-sex partners and their adopted children." While serving as a bishop in Peru, Prevost opposed government plans to add teachings about gender in school, calling "the promotion of gender ideology...confusing" since they "create genders that don't exist," according to the New York Times.

I suspect Pope Francis' views were formed long before his election. Might Leo's views have changed? We will no doubt discover eventually.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/pope-leo-xiv-accused-ignoring-133056079.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

https://people.com/where-does-pope-leo-xiv-stand-lgbtq-issues-what-we-know-11731335

[KeepItReal]

3 hours ago, PeterRS said:

Being American, it was almost predestined to happen. After the praise and adulation for an American Pope, now come the recriminations against the Church. No matter that Pope Leo might have had nothing to do with the abuses and the diatribes against homosexuality and abortion, for example, he cannot escape them. He was after all not always based in Peru as some of the media seem to have suggested. He received his Masters Degree in Chicago in 1982. Only part of his time thereafter was spent as a missionary in Peru. He returned full time to Chicago in 1999 for 15 years before going back to Peru as Bishop of Chiclayo. Pope Francis brought him to Rome in 2023 to assume the presidency of the Pontifical Commission for Latin America.

One who does not like Leo is Trump's pal Steve Bannen. "He's the worst pick for MAGA Catholics!" Which problably shoots him way up the rankings in most of the rest of the world! Laura Loomer, the far-right American conspiracy theorist and general nut case, accuses him of being "anti-Trump, anti-MAGA, pro open borders and a total marxist like Pope Francis." Another ringing endorsement sure to please most! 

More seriously, though, he will have to deal some of the scandals which happened more or less under his watch. What we know so far is that he is regarded as a moderate, although one more open to dialogue that perhaps his predecessor was. He is passionate about helping migrants and the poor, about climate change. On the still pressing matter of sexual abuse, he faces some difficulty. Survivors and advocacy groups claim that he failed to act on serious child abuse claims. The abuse is alleged to have happened during his tenure in both Chicago and Peru.

The Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests (SNAP) and other advocacy groups have expressed deep concern over Leo's past handling of cases. SNAP had given evidence to the cardinals who entered the Conclave about his alleged inaction. “This person will be scrutinized from left to right. That’s helpful for victims everywhere because we have this pope who will be under the public eye in terms of things he was involved with in the past,” said Lopez de Casas, himself a victim of abuse. He added, “Staying silent is a sin. It’s not what God wants us to do."

In the early 2000s, he allegedly permitted a priest suspended as a result of serious abuse charges to stay in a Friary close to an elementary Catholic parish school. Despite alarm among school officials, the priest remained there for 2 years.  According to reports Leo did not inform the school.

Later in Peru he was allegedly notified of allegations of serious abuse by two priests but failed to take any action. Although the two young sisters involved spoke directly to Leo in April 2022, the case was dropped for lack of evidence and expiry of the statute of limitations.

Then there is Leo's position on homosexuality. Pope Francis did probably as much as he could do to welcome LGBTQ members into the Church's community. He stated it was not up to him to judge a person's sexuality. Leo has not gone nearly as far. In a 2012 Address to Bishops, he said he was pained that Western media and society created "sympathy for beliefs and practices that are at odds with the gospel," citing "homosexual lifestyle" and "alternative families comprised of same-sex partners and their adopted children." While serving as a bishop in Peru, Prevost opposed government plans to add teachings about gender in school, calling "the promotion of gender ideology...confusing" since they "create genders that don't exist," according to the New York Times.

I suspect Pope Francis' views were formed long before his election. Might Leo's views have changed? We will no doubt discover eventually.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/pope-leo-xiv-accused-ignoring-133056079.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

https://people.com/where-does-pope-leo-xiv-stand-lgbtq-issues-what-we-know-11731335

There is a lot of speculation. Right now we just don't know. We don't know his current position on all the issues. We don't know how the bureaucracy of the Vatican will pressure him. Let's give the guy a chance and circle back in two years - then we will know for sure.