The Ideal GoGo Bar. What Would Be Your Recipe For Success?

[jason1975]

3 minutes ago, vinapu said:

here comes part when friends don't need always to agree . I need better glasses I suppose

It's not the ideal bar for me but Freshboys is the bar I go to because my regular guy is there and I also know many of the other guys working there.

[vinapu]

9 hours ago, colmx said:

Unfortunately in this case it is the bar over inflating the price so they can fool unsuspecting or newbie Middle Eastern, Chinese and Indian customers into paying higher than the prevailing rate.

 

 

that's nothing unfortunate, it's how market economy works. They are not fooling those customers, they bare letting them know what rate at that bar is.

Newcomers to every market always pay more than prevailing rate as they won't know what  it is until some exploration of alleys will be done

[vinapu]

5 hours ago, reader said:

That’s a tough knot but here’s my composite:

45% of the best shops in Silom, Surawong and Soi 6.

25% of Phoenix Spa

15% of I5M Massage 

10% of remaining shops in Saphan Kwai

5% of 365 The River

 

 

topped up with cream or ketchup ?

[vinapu]

9 minutes ago, jason1975 said:

It's not the ideal bar for me but Freshboys is the bar I go to because my regular guy is there and I also know many of the other guys working there.

although I visit every trip at least once , just like every other bar,  for me Freshboys is only bar where , as I'm unknown there bar one recent addition, I'm left undisturbed with only random smile going my way from the stage

[reader]

1 hour ago, vinapu said:

topped up with cream or ketchup ?

Cream, oh always cream, please!

[Marc308]

Gosh coming up a composite for the ideal go-go bar is a challenge indeed. My first reaction is to say the ideal composite is the OPPOSITE of (most?) of today's offerings:

1. Comfortable: Seating, lighting, music levels, cleanliness, no smoke.

2. FUN: I think the current bars have lost track of this essential ingredient. FUN to me means a welcoming attitude of mamasans, staff, waiters, owners; maybe a fun show means something with creativity, "surprises", a fun-loving atmosphere which does not focus only on sitting and drinking too much. Maybe offer interesting drinks beside the usual "well" drinks.

3. Sweet After-taste (pun intended?): When you leave the bar do you say to yourself gosh "that was a good time and I look forward to coming back again!"? The rule that seems to be overlooked by way too many bars today is the notion that cultivating return patronage is good business. 

For me, there is not a single bar which I look forward to going to. I used to like to go to BBB but then the women took it over. I used to like to go to Jupiter until the atmosphere turned surly. I liked going to Babylon, until it unexpectedly closed alas. Now I'm perfectly happy to rely on the apps, chance encounters, repeats from special guys.

'

[jason1975]

6 hours ago, vinapu said:

although I visit every trip at least once , just like every other bar,  for me Freshboys is only bar where , as I'm unknown there bar one recent addition, I'm left undisturbed with only random smile going my way from the stage

It's easy to change from unknown to known in one night! 

[vinapu]

8 hours ago, Marc308 said:

 

I used to like to go to BBB but then the women took it over. I used to like to go to Jupiter until the atmosphere turned surly. I liked going to Babylon, until it unexpectedly closed alas. Now I'm perfectly happy to rely on the apps, chance encounters, repeats from special guys.

'

sometimes I wonder if we changed more than those bars and what was fun for us 5 years ago now we find boring and other way around.

Your comment about Jupiter made me to realize that for me  nothing changer in Jupiter atmosphere since my first visit years ago and still  on my scale  bar moved from ' I don't like it there" to "must go to" simply because quite a few offs from there turned out very well. I used to be massage  fan , now most of my encounters are from bars. Used to start every trip with visit to Arena, now it's "  OMG I'm leaving tonight and did not check on Arena yet , let's go now"  and again , I don't think anything changed there and certainly not for the worse. And for the hell of me I can't figure out how and why I switched from Singha to Chang which I used to hate

[Guest Raposa]

3 hours ago, vinapu said:

And for the hell of me I can't figure out how and why I switched from Singha to Chang which I used to hate

You changed to Chang because it is the beer of choice for the working class.

[vinapu]

1 hour ago, Raposa said:

You changed to Chang because it is the beer of choice for the working class.

true, that's the official line  but still it looks that my tolerance for bitter taste increased , I used to hate Chang  because of that , now I need court order to drink Singha

[reader]

On 4/28/2025 at 9:50 AM, floridarob said:

A friend that sold cars told me, there's an ass for every seat. People actually bought AMC Pacer's 🤷‍♂️

When my car broke down in the early 90, I borrowed a co-worker's car for the day and used it to check out some car dealers. It was an '88 Yugo and when I parked it outside a showroom, the sales staff would gather by the window and laugh. Can't really blame them.

[Marc308]

12 hours ago, vinapu said:

sometimes I wonder if we changed more than those bars and what was fun for us 5 years ago now we find boring and other way around.

Your comment about Jupiter made me to realize that for me  nothing changer in Jupiter atmosphere since my first visit years ago and still  on my scale  bar moved from ' I don't like it there" to "must go to" simply because quite a few offs from there turned out very well.

V, I think you are pointing out an interesting phenomenon -- yes, we are likely to be easily "conditioned" based on whether a previous visit ultimately went well. And yes you are right I am sure my/our attitudes have changed over the years. Perhaps now I demand too much of the bars, as they were once an essential meeting place, before the apps and massage places were dominant. Looking back, I don't think I really enjoyed going there (not much of a drinker, definitely not a smoker) and I definitely resented paying the wholesaler mafia, money which would more appropriately have been given to the provider of service. But back then they were a necessary marketplace... that's not the case anymore.

[bkkmfj2648]

6 hours ago, reader said:

It was an '88 Yugo and when I parked it outside a showroom, the sales staff would gather by the window and laugh.

Wow lucky you.  I was always fascinated by the ability of the ex-Yugoslavia to market and export their cars to us in the USA.

I believe that the motto was:

Yugo = Nogo 

[vinapu]

7 hours ago, reader said:

When my car broke down in the early 90, I borrowed a co-worker's car for the day and used it to check out some car dealers. It was an '88 Yugo and when I parked it outside a showroom, the sales staff would gather by the window and laugh. Can't really blame them.

I can. I know people for whom that car was dream come true.  They had son known to the world as vinapu

[Rent Boy]

On 4/28/2025 at 3:57 AM, PeterRS said:

Given the changing times, in an ideal world what would you like to see offered in a gogo bar? What would make you wish to return regularly?

Cute naked boys, or wearing the smallest underwear possible.
Good bar environment, with a well lit stage and low music volume.
 

Even then, I don't promise to return anywhere near as regularly as I would have 15 years ago.  

These days, the apps provide a good supply of boys.  App boys are less likely to rush back to the bar to find their second or third off of the night. 

[PeterRS]

1 hour ago, Rent Boy said:

Cute naked boys, or wearing the smallest underwear possible.
Good bar environment, with a well lit stage and low music volume.

I fear those days ended many years ago now and I cannot think of any reason why they should return. But then I'm a glass half-empty kind of guy. I'm sure @vinapu will have a more positive outlook!

[Keithambrose]

1 hour ago, Rent Boy said:

Cute naked boys, or wearing the smallest underwear possible.
Good bar environment, with a well lit stage and low music volume.
 

Even then, I don't promise to return anywhere near as regularly as I would have 15 years ago.  

These days, the apps provide a good supply of boys.  App boys are less likely to rush back to the bar to find their second or third off of the night. 

I would think that naked boys would be wearing no underwear? 

 

As PeterRS says, it seems those days are gone!

[vinapu]

7 hours ago, PeterRS said:

I fear those days ended many years ago now and I cannot think of any reason why they should return. But then I'm a glass half-empty kind of guy. I'm sure @vinapu will have a more positive outlook!

Thank you  , I generally am half-full glass kind of guy indeed.

When comes to go-go bars in Thailand neither I'm longing for the past as I know it is gone anyways, no matter how I liked it then and there. Neither I'm overly concerned about future as not being teenager anymore means my time horizon narrows. I take what is at the plate when I'm there and try to make best out of it, generally with success. I rather see fully dressed guy I like look of and he smiles at me than almost naked whom I don't like much and he avoids my eye sight anyways.

I truly believe and practice what I usually say  - all we need is one bar and one guy there we like , rest is just garnishment, of course more of it the better but garnishment still

[PeterRS]

3 hours ago, vinapu said:

all we need is one bar and one guy there we like , rest is just garnishment, of course more of it the better but garnishment still

I think that is an extremely sensible view. Even in the 'old days' (sorry to bring them up again!) I rarely hopped around. Once I found a bar I liked, I stuck with it - from Apollo, to Hotmale, to Barbiery, to Classsic, to Solid. Having a variety of bars added to the fun, but only for an occasional visit.

On the other hand, though, I do think that Bangkok and Pattaya made their gay reputations on the basis of each having a significant cluster of gogo bars where nudity was more frequent and shows much more fun. This was what attracted many of the earlier tourists. And this I believe is the point made in @bkkmfj2648's earlier post. Without these clusters, are the Thai government and the Tourist Authority all but shooting themselves in their respective feet in terms of the future gay tourist market?

I suspect not for, as others have pointed out, the gay sauna and massage spa businesses seem to be doing well. Whereas clusters of gogo bars used to be the main attraction for us much older folk, perhaps with just a few exceptions, the day of the true gogo bar is either over or coming to some sort of natural end, in Thailand as elsewhere.

[bkkmfj2648]

22 minutes ago, PeterRS said:

This was what attracted many of the earlier tourists. And this I believe is the point made in @bkkmfj2648's earlier post. Without these clusters, are the Thai government and the Tourist Authority all but shooting themselves in their respective feet in terms of the future gay tourist market?

Thanks - yes that was my point.

In my opinion, without the attraction to a set of "clusters", what will then be the magnet to create desire in people, who are young now, to retire to Thailand after they become retirees?

It was the excitement of these past "clusters", when we were younger, that drove many of us to choose Thailand as the country to complete the last chapter(s) of our life in.

So, who will replace us gay retirees? 

Would they even come to retiree in Thailand if they never had that magical Thailand experience when they were younger?

If not, what will be the negative impact (if any) on the future GDP and FDI of Thailand?

[vinapu]

53 minutes ago, PeterRS said:

I think that is an extremely sensible view. Even in the 'old days' (sorry to bring them up again!) I rarely hopped around. Once I found a bar I liked, I stuck with it - from Apollo, to Hotmale, to Barbiery, to Classsic, to Solid. Having a variety of bars added to the fun, but only for an occasional visit.

On the other hand, though, I do think that Bangkok and Pattaya made their gay reputations on the basis of each having a significant cluster of gogo bars where nudity was more frequent and shows much more fun. This was what attracted many of the earlier tourists. ........

reading you post I realized why I'm not one shedding much tears about decline of go-go bars. While my first Thai venue ever was a bar ( called Up To You  on Rama 4 where Take -a Nap hostel later was ) it was my trip #8 or even 9 when I really started patronizing bars , happy  with massage venues  like Aqua Spa and Arena until then . Equally Pattaya did not come to my radar until my 9th trip and even then I was not impressed at all but forum members told me to give hear a chance and I'm glad I did.

 

On another hand to this day  I see great advantage of having those venues with live guys as opposite to apps  where rarely I see anybody interesting and if I do , it's usually guy I know already from other places.

[PeterRS]

1 hour ago, bkkmfj2648 said:

In my opinion, without the attraction to a set of "clusters", what will then be the magnet to create desire in people, who are young now, to retire to Thailand after they become retirees?

It was the excitement of these past "clusters", when we were younger, that drove many of us to choose Thailand as the country to complete the last chapter(s) of our life in.

So, who will replace us gay retirees? 

The problem is, in my view, that the numbers attracted by our gogo bar experiences in our youth no longer exist. There is no reason now for any younger gay guys to retire to Thailand other than it is a very pleasant gay-friendly place in which to spend one's final years. But the government of Thailand does not want retirees to be attracted by gay gogo bars etc. (although why they differentiate between gay and straight with all the girlie bars around beats me). The government is now desperate for a much different type of retiree, one that is generally considerably wealthier, will spend a good deal more cash and be more attracted by other things that Thailand can offer.

As we know, the country needs cash. Why keep trying to attract older foreigners who live on a monthly income of around the official retirement Bt. 65,000 monthly when we know from the Thailand Privilege people that their new Bt. 900,000 just for a visa for 5-years is selling like hot cakes. The fact that most are Russians and Chinese is not yet an issue it seems. More important is that they are rich and they spend. I think it is no accident that although Bangkok is awash with 5-star hotels, the recently opened Bangkok One was billed as having yet five more - all 5-star! People who stay in 5-star hotels spend a lot of cash!

To a certain extent I think we can draw a comparison with The Philippines (although I am not quite sure why!) In the 1960s and 70s, most tourists looking for gay sex in Asia looked to Manila. Bangkok and Thailand were on few horizons. Now gay sex in Manila is not a patch on what it used to be. The city has moved up market.

 

 

[PeterRS]

2 hours ago, bkkmfj2648 said:

If not, what will be the negative impact (if any) on the future GDP and FDI of Thailand?

Sadly perhaps - zero.

[bkkmfj2648]

3 minutes ago, PeterRS said:

The problem is, in my view, that the numbers attracted by our gogo bar experiences in our youth no longer exist. There is no reason now for any younger gay guys to retire to Thailand other than it is a very pleasant gay-friendly place in which to spend one's final years.

So, then based on this prognosis - then most of the gay venue places (magnets) will dry up when us retirees die off?

good bye BoyzTown ?

good bye Jomtien Complex (Supertown) ?

good bye to Sunee Plaza - it is almost dead - as it is now mostly a ghost town 

and the same for Bangkok  -  Silom 4 (rumors say that it may go the way of our former beloved soi Twilight) ?  

So, perhaps with the Thai government lobbying for the rights to host World Pride 2030 - then there would not be a need from the Thai government's point of view to have some gay entertainment venues operational to entertain the anticipated hundreds of thousands of visitors ?

[PeterRS]

32 minutes ago, bkkmfj2648 said:

So, then based on this prognosis - then most of the gay venue places (magnets) will dry up when us retirees die off? . . . 

So, perhaps with the Thai government lobbying for the rights to host World Pride 2030 - then there would not be a need from the Thai government's point of view to have some gay entertainment venues operational to entertain the anticipated hundreds of thousands of visitors ?

Yes, it will be good bye to a lot of what we know and what WE used to love. But for today's younger generation, they have no - or only a little - experience of what we used to love. Their experiences are different. What do THEY want and what will THEY love? I really do not know - and I think most of us do not know. Our gay world has changed massively in the 45 or so years since I first visited Bangkok. For the gay tourist or gay retiree everything is totally different with a whole new range of gay possibilities. Thanks to air fares in general being a great deal cheaper (as a percentage of one's income) than they were around 1980, there is a new gay world out there.

Did I know anything about specific gay bars/areas in Bangkok before I first visited? Only from what I read in Spartacus magazine and heard from friends. But I had discovered Manila first. Then again, most of Bangkok's gay scene only began to develop after I started visiting.

Let's also recall that the government had nothing to do with the establishment of Pattaya as a sex centre other than leasing U-tapao airport to the USA during the Vietnam War. Nothing at all! Pattaya was a sleepy little village then. It was the entrepreneurs who realised that the many US servicemen were young, sex-starved, wanted to have a bit of a wild time in their R&R breaks and girls were needed. So the private sector opened the bars, hired the girls and raked in masses of cash. It is no coincidence that R&R rapidly changed to become I&I - Intoxication and Intercourse!

As for the World Pride in 2030, it will not need any help from the government. There will be plenty of private businesses thrilled to organise Pride parties. A bit like the annual Taipei Gay Pride Parades, of which I have attended seven. All the week-end parties and entertainment around the Parades are privately and amazingly organised - as are the Parades themselves. If you have never been, please try to do so. They are always on the last Saturday in October. Although I have posted lots of photos over the years, later today I'll open a new one under the Taipei section just to remind everyone what a great afternoon that Parade is.