In your experience, are bisexuals challenged when it comes to commitment?

[unicorn]

Earlier tonight, my husband and I attended a Survivor Premier watch party hosted by handsome multiple-time Survivor contestant Oscar "Ozzie" Lusth, who's bisexual. It was a bit of a fantasy of mine to finally meet and have my picture taken with him. He's gorgeous and had both men and women swooning over him at the event.  Yet he has no ring on his finger and, as far as the internet can determine, no serious relationship. I asked my husband why someone, who could apparently have his pick with anyone of either gender, wouldn't have found someone by the ripe age of 44. He said that bisexuals have trouble with commitment. When we got home, I went online to see if there were studies to back that up, and I couldn't find one either way. The only other reasons I could come up with would be either that he has a difficult personality, or that he wants to come off as available to fans of both genders. I must confess that I surprisingly don't have a lot of bisexual friends. So what's your experience when it comes to bisexuals you know? Do they have challenges when it comes to commitment?

 

 

[PeterRS]

Before I came to Asia I made two close friendships with work colleagues. Neither knew I was gay then, although probably suspected it. Both were married, one with four children and the other with five. On many visits to the USA after I moved to Hong Kong and they - separately - to the USA, I tried to fit in long week-ends with one or other and their families. Long before then, I had realised that both my friends were bisexual. One, a very senior executive, had even told his future wife about his bisexuality before their marriage and she both understood and accepted it. When working in the US, he would take one afternoon off each week to meet up with and pay an escort. The other would never have dared tell his wife. Yet sometimes he would show me a gay DVD when staying in his US home when his wife was out shopping. How and where he hid his gay porn I have no idea, but with a wife and 4 kids roaming around the house he must have been especially careful. He had never told his wife about being bisexual and I don't think she ever discovered that 'secret'.

Both marriages were actually very strong and lasted for decades to the end of their lives.

[jimmie50]

I honestly couldn't say if any of my friends or family are bisexual or not.  I have no clue, and it isn't really something that ever comes up in conversations.  I have friends who openly identify as gay or lesbian, but I have either met them through some type of gay venue or activity, i.e. gay community center, gay pride committee, gay work association, etc.  It is quite possible that even though we have met through a gay venue that they do identify as bisexual, but I really don't know.  Anything is possible.  I have several friends who were married years ago, and some had children, but they are divorced and openly identify as gay or lesbian.  They are of my generation when you stayed very closeted and succumbed to family or societal pressures to marry and start a family.  

[unicorn]

5 hours ago, jimmie50 said:

I honestly couldn't say if any of my friends or family are bisexual or not.  I have no clue, and it isn't really something that ever comes up in conversations...

That's an interesting perspective. Although I'm a baby boomer, I grew up in a liberal city, with an atheist family, so I certainly never felt pressure to start a family (Thank Vishnu 😉). As an extremely openly gay person/couple I would think that any friend would feel totally comfortable discussing his relationships with me/us. We do have one pair of friends who are in a very loose relationship. They are room-mates and frequently screw around with each other, but they bristle at even being called boyfriends. One of the two is the only person I consider a true friend who identifies as bisexual. That being said, the only two women I'm aware of that he's had sex with are trans women who haven't had bottom surgery. I suppose that puts him more on the gay side of the Kinsey scale, but he definitely considers himself bi.

I also did mention several weeks ago the brother-in-law of a friend, whom we met at the friend's birthday party. I felt (quietly) alarmed when he introduced himself as the husband of my friend's sister. I told my husband on our way back home that I hoped our friend's sister knew her husband was gay. He then told me that our friend told him that the couple identify themselves as bi, and have sex outside the marriage (him with men, her with women). I strongly suspect that this is one of those "lavender marriages." Presumably, the friend and his sister grew up in the same household, with similar family pressures. It would be interesting to know the dynamics. I'm certainly grateful to have been brought up in an atheist, science-friendly family (both of my parents were researchers with doctoral degrees). 

[TMax]

I can only speak for myself but being bi I have never felt challenged when it came to commitment due to being bi, I've always thought that when the right person came along I would commit and it wouldn't matter if it was a male or female. I do have a golden rule or standard that if I commit to someone it would strictly be a one on one relationship and that goes both ways, no extras on the side for either me or him / her. The only challenge to commitment I have ever had was through my old job and the hours I worked, others that worked the same had no issues but for me it was a deal breaker, after the long shifts I just wanted to switch off and that was best achieved by being by myself.

[PeterRS]

Like @TMax I never felt challenged after realising I was gay during my late school years. But it was a time as @jimmie50 points out when there was a lot of homophobia about and the anti-gay legislation in England and Wales had only just changed. So I was in my own little closet for quite a few years, opening up only to less than a handful of close friends and a few sexual companions. I sometimes did go out with girls to parties at university but never in a true dating sense. I even felt bad for them because my eyes would usually only be on one or more other guys. I have never felt bisexual and even today I find it slightly strange that one person can be sexually attracted to both women and men. 

There are some readers on this Board who have told us they first married and have children. I often wonder if the children felt any 'different' when their parents divorced and they took up with men instead. I did meet one fascinating guy here in Bangkok. He is from Vienna, had great jobs there and then in New York, was married with two daughters, but was filled with angst knowing that he really preferred guys. At one low point in New York he stood at the apartment window and was serously considering jumping out. Thankfully he didn't. The next day he confessd all to his wife who then told him it was something she had suspected for some time. They divorced amicably, he moved to Bangkok, within a few weeks had found his gay partner and moved to a lovely house outside Chiang Mai. Once when I was having dinner with them, his two grown-up daughters were staying. All seemed perfectly happy. I hope it is true of those in a similar situation.

[Ruthrieston]

Growing up in the 60's to 70's with a brother five years older than me who was also gay but instead of helping me cope with things he tormented me and made my life even worse, driving me to try to kill myself three times in my teenage years. He got married and had two children, but they divorced and he came out and last I heard he was living with his boyfriend. We have not had any contact since our mother's funeral in 2000. I will never forgive him for how he treated me. It was not until I was 24 that I started to open my closet doors. I have been living in Thailand for almost fourteen years now, and I am so grateful to feel safe and welcome here. 
 

[PeterRS]

1 hour ago, Ruthrieston said:

Growing up in the 60's to 70's with a brother five years older than me who was also gay but instead of helping me cope with things he tormented me and made my life even worse, driving me to try to kill myself three times in my teenage years.

How dreadful to read your story! I was growing up ten years earlier when it was not common to see openly gay men. Even then they were usually called "poofs". A pharmacist in a shop at the end of our street was one of the few gay men we knew of. We heard tales of his attending a gay club, the only one in the city I believe, but this was always spoken of furtively. In these very changed days, I often wonder how these men managed to survive.

[vinapu]

9 hours ago, PeterRS said:

The next day he confessd all to his wife who then told him it was something she had suspected for some time. They divorced amicably, he moved to Bangkok, within a few weeks had found his gay partner and moved to a lovely house outside Chiang Mai. Once when I was having dinner with them, his two grown-up daughters were staying. All seemed perfectly happy. I hope it is true of those in a similar situation.

my last boss is married to a guy who divorced his wife when their daughter reached adulthood 

[jimmie50]

Wow, so much to unpack here.  I grew up in a small town in Ohio in a conservative Baptist family.  We maybe had 7000 people and everyone knew everyone's business.  I did not know of anyone that was openly out.  Of course, there would be rumors or suspicions, but I think we were all afraid to act on any physical desires we might have.  Back in those days everyone was required to take PE in school, which included the communal shower after class.  My greatest fear in high school was that among all of the naked guys in class I would get aroused and be exposed.  I would find every excuse imaginable to avoid the shower or be one of the last persons to take one.  I didn't have my first experience with another guy until I was in college...living away from the hometown...among 20,000+ students where it was easier to hide or fade into the background.  My chosen field didn't help the situation either...education.  To be a teacher back in those days and discovered that you were gay...was basically a death sentence.  I guess you would call me a late bloomer, as I didn't really come out to friends or family well into my 30's.  

I have friends, a gay couple, both of whom are my age (70's), both married and had children.  One of the friends, after coming out, divorcing, and then finding his partner actually had a much stronger and closer relationship with his son.  The son married and has a son of his own, so my friend is now a grandfather.  Unfortunately, the other friend had two daughters, who after he came out and got divorced they would not have anything to do with him.  To this day, they refuse to even acknowledge that he exists.  It's a very sad situation.  Both of them got married after college and started a family because in those days, that was the expectation for everyone.  

[vinapu]

3 minutes ago, jimmie50 said:

 Unfortunately, the other friend had two daughters, who after he came out and got divorced they would not have anything to do with him.  To this day, they refuse to even acknowledge that he exists.  It's a very sad situation.

keep in mind that this sad situation may be result of fact of divorce , not fact that father was gay.

I had a friend , since dead,  who,  when he was teenager, after father left family for whatever reason did exactly the same  - voluntarily forgot about his existence and stuck to his guns till day of his tragic death in climbing accident.

[unicorn]

13 hours ago, Ruthrieston said:

... instead of helping me cope with things he tormented me and made my life even worse... I will never forgive him for how he treated me...

Have you considered telling him how his treatment of you made you feel, and asked if he's ready to ask for forgiveness? Forgiveness can be liberating.

[PeterRS]

11 hours ago, unicorn said:

Have you considered telling him how his treatment of you made you feel, and asked if he's ready to ask for forgiveness? Forgiveness can be liberating.

An important point. I re-read @Ruthrieston's post several times and tried to imagine myself in his situation. Coming from a loving family with a brother and a sister, both eventually happily married with children and grandchildren, I actually cannot put myself into that situation no matter how hard I try. I think if my brother had acted that way and I had even seriously considered suicide just once, I simply could not forgive. I have in the past forgiven others for actions against me. But in a case such as that described, I could not.

[TMax]

So far in my life there are only 3 people (other than money boys) that I have told face to face that I enjoy being with another guy and 2 of those people are members here that I have met in Bangkok, that's why I like the anonymity here and find it easier to open up a bit and share experiences. Where I grew up it wasn't wise to let anyone know that a person had thoughts of being with another guy let alone doing something with another guy, luckily for me at that time those thoughts were only in the back of my mind. Likewise when I did military service I kept those thoughts bottled up inside for obvious reasons. When I went into the mining industry and moved to the towns in the north of Australia there was no way in hell I was going to come out and confess I liked m2m sex (when I finally got into it that is), I saw what mental torture some were put through when it was discovered they were either bi or gay and that worried me a lot. Even though I have been enjoying my bi side for many years now, in my life here I still have a padlock on the inside of my closet door and seriously doubt I will ever open up that door (certainly not where I am at the moment), I still like to keep some parts of my life private and away from those I know.

[PeterRS]

I made a rule soon after I admitted to myself that there was no possibility I could be bisexual or get married. I do not tell  anyone I am gay. If they guess and don't mention it to me, that's their business. If anyone outright asks if I am gay, I will not lie. I will tell them I am. But it is remarkable in my experience how few people guess you are gay - well, when you reach your 50s, 60s and even 70s and do not have a steady girlfriend - it surely has to be 99% certain you are gay, doesn't it? On the other hand, once some people realise you are gay, making both gay and straight friends becomes a good deal easier. 

[unicorn]

15 hours ago, TMax said:

...Even though I have been enjoying my bi side for many years now, in my life here I still have a padlock on the inside of my closet door...

So are you married or otherwise committed to someone else? What keeps you in the closet? Are you worried you might be fired, or lose out on a sizeable inheritance? Is it the mores of your particular country? Obviously, there's a huge difference between homophobic countries such as Uganda, Iran, or Russia, and most Western countries. 

[unicorn]

13 hours ago, PeterRS said:

I made a rule soon after I admitted to myself that there was no possibility I could be bisexual or get married. I do not tell  anyone I am gay. If they guess and don't mention it to me, that's their business. If anyone outright asks if I am gay, I will not lie. I will tell them I am. But it is remarkable in my experience how few people guess you are gay - well, when you reach your 50s, 60s and even 70s and do not have a steady girlfriend - it surely has to be 99% certain you are gay, doesn't it? On the other hand, once some people realise you are gay, making both gay and straight friends becomes a good deal easier. 

I suspect most of your friends strongly suspect you're gay, but also suspect you're not comfortable discussing it, since you haven't brought it up, which is why they don't ask specifically. It's certainly easy to have a huge network of gay friends in places such as where I live, Los Angeles. I realize that it isn't as easy in small towns in the countryside.

[PeterRS]

2 hours ago, unicorn said:

I suspect most of your friends strongly suspect you're gay, but also suspect you're not comfortable discussing it, since you haven't brought it up, which is why they don't ask specifically.

Respectfully I dont agree with that in the slightest. What did you expect me to do? Go around telling everyone, "Oh by the way, I just want you to know that I am gay?" That's just nonsense. I cannot think of anyone of those many hundreds I worked with throughout my career or who I called friends and acquaintances who ever considered being gay was a subject I would not be comfortable discussing. There is a virtue and it's called being polite. Few people, certainly in Asia where I have spent most of my life, are as openly assertive and questioning as gay men in Los Angeles. 

[unicorn]

18 minutes ago, PeterRS said:

Respectfully I dont agree with that in the slightest. What did you expect me to do? Go around telling everyone, "Oh by the way, I just want you to know that I am gay?"...

Literally hundreds of friends and acquaintances at work and in my neighborhoods (where I previously lived in the SF Bay Area and where I live now in LA) have known that I'm gay, and I've never had to make a specific statement like "I just want you to know that I'm gay." Unless you're a recluse, it's something which comes up in everyday conversation and social settings--who you're seeing/dating, where you've been, and so on. It's also obvious by who your guests are at parties. I always invite all of my neighbors to the parties which I throw at my property (I cannot, of course, invite them to parties I let others throw at their expense on my property). Two men on different properties on our street are gay, the rest aren't, and we all know who is what without anyone having to make a specific announcement. 

You have chosen to shield your romantic life from your friends, and they have learned by this that you prefer not to discuss this topic (and probably made certain assumptions as to why not). It's your right not to bring any contemporaneous romantic interests to any party you attend, office event, or other social setting. However, doing so is a choice. I personally would find it emotionally taxing. My choice is to live my life openly with no excuses or hiding. 

[PeterRS]

50 minutes ago, unicorn said:

You have chosen to shield your romantic life from your friends, and they have learned by this that you prefer not to discuss this topic (and probably made certain assumptions as to why not). It's your right not to bring any contemporaneous romantic interests to any party you attend, office event, or other social setting. However, doing so is a choice. I personally would find it emotionally taxing. My choice is to live my life openly with no excuses or hiding. 

Where did you dig up that nonsense? I have never shielded my romantic life from anyone. Of course I bring and have brought boyfriends to parties and other social events like going to restaurants, concerts and musicals, or even just to the supermarket and other shopping trips. We have been on vacation together to various parts of the world. In that sense I am perfectly open. A man with another man.

You just did not read my initial post properly. What I stated was essentially that I do not go around with a banner on my back stating "I am gay!" as it seems so many in LA do. But if anyone asks, I tell them. I do not lie. I do not make excuses. My life is far from "emotionally taxing" and I live perfectly openly without "hiding". But I live in a part of the world which is very different from LA (thankfully) and I live my life very happily my own way. Not your way. Please read before making such rather silly assumptions. 

[PeterRS]

@unicorn I think you should also remember that California made same sex activity legal in 1976. As you are I believe quite a bit younger than I, I expect that covers most if not all of your active sexual llife. Before I moved to Hong Kong I lived in a country where same sex activity was still illegal. I then arrived in Hong Kong where thanks to a 19th century English law, same sex activity was also illegal. Not only that, a few homosexuals were jailed for 2 or 3 years each year as if to discourage others. On top of that, it was believed - wrongly - that the local 90% or so Chinese population was against homosexuality. That law in Hong Kong was not changed until 1991. If you think anyone could live freely and openly as a gay man as I would have been able to do in California during those 15 years, think again! Notwithstanding, provided one did not have a banner on one's back saying "I am homosexual", life was pretty easy for gay men. Remaining under the radar is not at all the same as remaning in the closet.

[unicorn]

Relax, @PeterRS, I'm not shaking my finger at your choices. I cannot say what I would do if I lived in a hostile country. I suspect I'd try to leave. They've only been around some 20 years, but these days there are organizations such as the Rainbow Railroad which help members of the LGBTQ community relocate to friendly countries (most commonly Canada 🥶).

https://www.rainbowrailroad.org/wp-content/cache/wp-rocket/rainbowrailroad.org/index-https.html

If you go to parties and on vacations with friends and bring your boyfriend along, then you're out to your friends (assuming you don't make up fake stories about who he is). Do you literally believe that one needs to wear a banner on one's back to be out of the closet?? The only rainbow shirt I have was one I bought because a friend threw a party, and he requested everyone to wear their "gayest attire."

Well, OK, I did once buy a T-shirt with a rainbow mickey motif at Disneyland.

Being out of the closet simply means living your life without avoiding all conversations about one's personal life (or making up fake stories). It rarely involves proclamations. It's all about just being yourself. 

[PeterRS]

3 hours ago, unicorn said:

It's all about just being yourself. 

And I think with that we are both basically on the same page!

By the way, I do love those shirts, even with a rainbow Mickey!

[vinapu]

17 hours ago, PeterRS said:

And I think with that we are both basically on the same page!

By the way, I do love those shirts, even with a rainbow Mickey!

I don't like that shirt as it has no pocket but guy in her is suuuuper handsome

[PeterRS]

2 minutes ago, vinapu said:

I don't like that shirt as it has no pocket but guy in her is suuuuper handsome

I am sure he has pockets in his pants and you can have a bit of fun as you try to find something in one.