Foreign Men Bid Thankful Farewell in Pattaya

[bkkmfj2648]

Many of our forum readers are sad when they need to leave LOS and return home.

Do you sometimes do the below at the gogo bar, massage shop, bar, sauna, hotel, restaurant, etc before heading off to Suvarnabhumi ?

 

https://aseannow.com/thailand-news/foreign-men-bid-thankful-farewell-in-pattaya-r2745/

 

[Vessey]

Never seen that before, but I guess many of us have developed our own little rituals both on our arrival back and again on our departure.

My own rituals are both simple and similar. I still start and finish my holidays at the Queen Victoria Hotel on Soi 6, which has been my 'second home' since 2010. I always have a balcony room on the top floor overlooking the busy soi below. My interest in the girls in the bars below have long since dwindled, but I still just love the whole atmosphere of the place.

As I arrive, I throw my bag onto the bed, walk over, open the big balcony window, walk out, lean over the railings and welcome myself back, savouring the noisy activity below. On departing, my last act before I leave my room to get my taxi,  is to repeat the process, promising to myself 'Until next time'! 

I still get emotional every time as I leave, my boyfriend assumes the tears are for him, and indeed some of them are, but also some are for just leaving Pattaya, my 'Happy Place', to return to my normal life back home in England.

I still enjoy my life back home, it holds friends, family and the many activites I get immersed in, but it is an almost entirely celibate life these days, both conventional, and respectable. A far cry from the 'happy' massages, sweaty short times, and the general, hands-on, late-night debauchery enjoyed inside of some of my favourite boy bars.

[vinapu]

Like Vessey above, I like my life at home and  for me Thai , or broadly speaking SE Asia , vacation are complete change from  my routines of pedestrian , daily life.

Always cherish that moment , when upon leaving immigration area I head to airport railway station. My arrival times are either mid-day or late evening but no matter time of day or weather, after refreshing up first thing I always do is my walk through the area to see what's new, Thaniya, Silom to Patpong 2 with obligatory peek through the Foodland's windows where often I may spot familiar boy's or member's face  then Suriwong to soi 6 and then Silom to Patpong 1. 

That's my rite of passage from daily  life to vacation fun filled time.

No particular liturgy on departure but I like to have some company with me till very moment I'm leaving for an airport which is kind of easy as my deperture times are almost exclusively at some time between midnight and 7 am. 

[Londoner]

A "jai yen"( a cool heart) is a Thai Ideal and one which my partner encourages. There is often a moment, sometimes arriving unexpectedly, when I sense that a  tear or two is imminent as we prepare for the taxi to the airport.  I have now learnt to  subdue this by making a joke. And it almost worked last week. 

[Olddaddy]

14 hours ago, Vessey said:

My own rituals are both simple and similar. I still start and finish my holidays at the Queen Victoria Hotel on Soi 6, which has been my 'second home' since 2010

Interesting, never heard of gay staying at the Queen Vic 🤴

I thought of it as old UK Irish farangs who would be homophobic 

[mauRICE]

1 hour ago, Olddaddy said:

Interesting, never heard of gay staying at the Queen Vic 🤴

I thought of it as old UK Irish farangs who would be homophobic 

Not necessarily Irish but boorish, straight white guys mostly.  Soi Buakhaw is similar. I don't know why people keep carping about the Indians in Pattaya when these guys are no better. Vessey is bi I believe and my comments don't apply to him.

[Olddaddy]

1 hour ago, mauRICE said:

Soi Buakhaw is similar. I don't know why people keep carping about the Indians in Pattaya when these guys are no better. 

Exactly! No need for racism , I hate everyone equally !! 

They can all go get Fxcked , including the Indians !

[KeepItReal]

1 hour ago, Olddaddy said:

Exactly! No need for racism , I hate everyone equally !! 

They can all go get Fxcked , including the Indians 

That is xenophobia. Also not a good look. 

[BjornAgain]

2 hours ago, KeepItReal said:

That is xenophobia. Also not a good look. 

Agreed. Scares the living bejesus out of me.

[bkkmfj2648]

When to Wai and when not to Wai - as per @RealThailander

One of most favorite Thai Youtube bloggers has just released a guide about Wai-ing.....

 

Do any of you follow him?

I value his Thai perspective especially when it is regarding a controversial topic.  I have written to him privately to ask for his enlightenment and he has been very accommodating.

https://youtu.be/jdZH60i3Slw?si=IOf4dAQTW_2NXMY7

 

[Londoner]

Fascinating.

My Thai "bible"- Michael Notcutt's "Thai Scene"- warned us not to  "wai"; it is a  sensitive and  complex  cultural thing. A smile and a nod, he said, was culturally safer.

My partner- the  runner-up in the Kamphaeng Phaet School District Wai Competition, circa 1990 and I'm not kidding- spent thirty minutes teaching me how to perform it appropriately when I was due to meet Mama and Papa for the first time.

It is  the  only time I've ever done it.

[vinapu]

I'm not losing my sleep over whether my wai is correct or not. As foreigner I assume we are given a lot of leeway in our small transgressions on domestic customs like foreigners everywhere else  .

Needs to be said that once I wai'ed , if that's the word, cleaner at Raya hotel. Wai was too high probably  she noticed it and was clearly pleased

[mauRICE]

6 hours ago, Londoner said:

My partner- the  runner-up in the Kamphaeng Phaet School District Wai Competition, circa 1990 and I'm not kidding- spent thirty minutes teaching me how to perform it appropriately when I was due to meet Mama and Papa for the first time.

It is  the  only time I've ever done it.

Were his parents older than you?

I initiate wais when it's appropriate and receive wais when I'm quick enough to catch them. My Thai teachers at Chula taught me it's the polite thing to do and I've been told that I do it very nicely. Many farang seem to think that a correct wai is only dependent on the height of the wai corresponding to the status of the person receiving it. Actually, the lowering of the gaze, the angle the head is bent, the clasping of the hands and fingers, the curling of the thumbs backwards, and how close the hands are placed to one's body are also very important. I've heard many older Thais lament how the younger generation didn't how to wai properly anymore.

The การกราบไหว้ or prostration by the young farang above is, strictly speaking, inappropriate as you don't wai restaurant owners or staff and the act of prostration is generally reserved for members of royalty, parents and certain monks. It may also be proffered to beg forgiveness from someone who's been done an egregious wrong. That said, judging from the comments I've seen from Thais on social media, no harm was done by the two farang guys as they're young, goodlooking and were probably content creators mucking around. Comments were basically teasing them saying the food must've been really delicious and they're sure to be back.

As a side note, I believe the act of prostration was abolished in Thailand during the Fifth Reign following the abolition of slavery but was brought back in the Seventh Reign (or perhaps ninth?) at the behest of a manoevring prime minister. 

 

 

 

[a-447]

Buddhism teaches respect for each other, and each culture has its own interpretation of how to display that respect.

The first important part, as mentioned in the video, is determining your status position vis-a-vis the other person. I'm not sure how they do that in Thailand, but in Japan they use business cards which indicate your job - doctor,teacher, etc - or position in the company - CEO, boss, head of department. So you know immediately who is of the higher status.

Bowing in Japan us a bit complicated, but nowhere near as complicated as the 'wai' it seems.

The only time I can recall having 'wai-ed' to a Thai was years ago.

I was in Siam Paragon when I noticed a commotion in a store. I managed to push my way to the front by joining the press corps.

And there she was  - a vision of beauty, charm and sophistication! 

As she walked towards me I 'wai-ed' and gave a Japanese bow - both at the same time! 😂 😂 😂 

We were in a French fashion store, and presuming I was French (actually I'm half French) she greeted me with a 'Bonjour'. A short conversation followed, but I was so flustered I don't recall exactly what we talked about. 

Now, I knew she was a VIP, but wasn't sure who she was. I later showed my 'friend' her photo and that's when I realised who I had been speaking to. 

OMG! And I had been so presumptuous as to compliment her on her French!

 

[bkkmfj2648]

30 minutes ago, a-447 said:

Now, I knew she was a VIP, but wasn't sure who she was. I later showed my 'friend' her photo and that's when I realised who I had been speaking to. 

Cliffhanger? 😵‍💫

[mauRICE]

Both HRH Princess Sirindhorn, the king's sister, and HRH Princess Sirivannavari, the king's daughter, have fluent French. So did the king's paternal late aunt, HRH Princess Galyani, who, if I remember correctly, taught French at Chula.

Princess Sirivannavari lived and studied fashion design in France and is a prominent fashion designer in Thailand. She was presented with the Legion of Honour in May by Emmanuel Macron.

[a-447]

2 hours ago, bkkmfj2648 said:

Cliffhanger? 😵‍💫

My lips are sealed! 

But some have guessed who I'm talking about, I'm sure.

[Londoner]

Most of us spend much or even all of our time in tourist areas where Thais are used to  our ways. Hotel staff (in my experience) usually don't wai to guests but money boys? I am sure that it was customary for them to wai after receiving payment....but my memories are of long ago.

One custom that I believe  still to be  pervasive is lowering the head when passing close by someone. It's worth remembering, particularly for us, because we tend to be taller than Thais. Mr Notcutt's book identified this as a custom worth emulating.

[mauRICE]

33 minutes ago, Londoner said:

Mr Notcutt's book identified this as a custom worth emulating.

But why was he so against circumcision? Was he afraid it wouldn't be as stimulating? 

[jimmie50]

22 hours ago, vinapu said:

I'm not losing my sleep over whether my wai is correct or not. As foreigner I assume we are given a lot of leeway in our small transgressions on domestic customs like foreigners everywhere else  .

During my recent visit, the security staff at the condo where we were staying would wai every single time they would see me exit the elevator to leave the building or when we would be returning to the building from the outside and going to the elevator.  Initially I didn't mind, but I did not return the wai as I did not think it was appropriate.  To be honest, it really got a little annoying to have them do it so much...every single time they saw me.

When I met the elderly father of my Thai friends who let me use their condo for accommodations when I visit, I felt it would be disrespectful if I did not provide a wai for him.  But with my friends, we never do it.  

[mauRICE]

1 hour ago, jimmie50 said:

During my recent visit, the security staff at the condo where we were staying would wai every single time they would see me exit the elevator to leave the building or when we would be returning to the building from the outside and going to the elevator.  Initially I didn't mind, but I did not return the wai as I did not think it was appropriate.  To be honest, it really got a little annoying to have them do it so much...every single time they saw me.

😮

Please remember that you're not in Kansas or Denver anymore and forgive them for trying to do their job.

I hope you acknowledged their "annoying" presence in some other way for eg stopping to chat with them once in a while or even buying them biscuits and canned coffee from the 7E to show your appreciation (if it's not forbidden by management). These guys make a pittance but they shoulder a heavy responsibility. They get all the blame if something goes wrong and also have to manage some very difficult and entitled residents.

That constant wai-ing (and in some cases saluting) that you find annoying is not only a gesture of politeness but an exercise to keep them alert and vigilant in what is a very boring and mundane job. That is why you also see many security guards smoke - because they're bored and it keeps them awake.

 

 

 

[jimmie50]

1 hour ago, mauRICE said:

I hope you acknowledged their "annoying" presence in some other way for eg stopping to chat with them once in a while or even buying them biscuits and canned coffee from the 7E to show your appreciation

Yes, even though I found it somewhat annoying, I never expressed that openly.  Just was my personal feelings about it.  I never even said anything to Cam about it.  I was always polite and did always say hello or goodbye.  When leaving the condo on the last day, I did give them a very nice tip.  

[vinapu]

11 hours ago, a-447 said:

 

We were in a French fashion store, and presuming I was French (actually I'm half French) she greeted me with a 'Bonjour'. A short conversation followed, but I was so flustered I don't recall exactly what we talked about. 

 

 

handsome boys in vicinity  perhaps ?

[Londoner]

I don't know whether they are still published but there used to be a series of books here in the UK called "Culture Shock" providing information for UK travelers visiting  foreign lands.  I recall some of the advice from the Thailand edition. This was back in the 1990s and times have changed but here goes....

1) If eating in a Thai family residence, always eat a mouthful of  the rice on the plate first. (I'm d***** if I can recall why).

2) Leave a small amount of food on your plate to indicate that you've been given enough.

3) Be very careful when handling currency owing to the fact that it shows a image of the King. 

4) Stoop when passing a sitting Thai, as mentioned above. 

Respect for the monarchy  was deemed extremely important. This is something that I'm certain has changed in recent ears. I remember going with my partner and a friend to sign a book of condolence  at Big C after the  previous King died. From what I have observed and heard , his generation-   middle-aged- is far less "royalist".

[Keithambrose]

3 hours ago, Londoner said:

I don't know whether they are still published but there used to be a series of books here in the UK called "Culture Shock" providing information for UK travelers visiting  foreign lands.  I recall some of the advice from the Thailand edition. This was back in the 1990s and times have changed but here goes....

1) If eating in a Thai family residence, always eat a mouthful of  the rice on the plate first. (I'm d***** if I can recall why).

2) Leave a small amount of food on your plate to indicate that you've been given enough.

3) Be very careful when handling currency owing to the fact that it shows a image of the King. 

4) Stoop when passing a sitting Thai, as mentioned above. 

Respect for the monarchy  was deemed extremely important. This is something that I'm certain has changed in recent ears. I remember going with my partner and a friend to sign a book of condolence  at Big C after the  previous King died. From what I have observed and heard , his generation-   middle-aged- is far less "royalist".

But the laws are still strictly enforced.