2015 Porto Alegre and Rio

[MsAnn]

For you MsAnn, here are a couple more of Diego!

Well Mr.Tomcal, with great sincerity, I can't tell you how much I have enjoyed your stories and attached images. Every single one brought this old man great delight, and sent me to bed with a smile on my face. Wishing you all the best in your travels, and who knows, maybe one of these old days, we will bump into each other bar side at one of your favorite haunts with boys in tow.

And should you speak to Diego, please tell him that he has admirers from afar.

Big kiss. MUAH

[Guest callipygian]

Are these people really viewed and considered as just.....male whores?

Just asking in reference to an earlier observation made by someone here.

[flipao]

I am another fan of Diego! Tomcal, thank you so much for giving us a lot of joy with your pictures and interesting stories! God bless you!

[Guest lurkerspeaks]

Are these people really viewed and considered as just.....male whores?

Just asking in reference to an earlier observation made by someone here.

I think I speak for the majority here that that is NOT the feeling we have. I have met many nice boys in the Rio Saunas, and like Tomcal, I keep in touch with several by way of Facebook. I consider them friends (with mutually beneficial benefits).

[mvan1]

Are these people really viewed and considered as just.....male whores?

Just asking in reference to an earlier observation made by someone here.

If someone wants to be crude and blunt, the dictionary definition of what the Brazilian garotos do makes them male whores, in that they sell sexual services to other males for money or goods.

Are they viewed that way by most of us who travel to Brazil? Absolutely not.

The garotos that most of us meet do not limit their involvement with us to selling sex. Many, become lasting relationships and many become friends.

There are a few special garotos that I have taken to other countries in South America and Europe and one I took to South Africa. I certainly do not regard those guys as “male whores” as you wrote in your question.

There is one former sauna garoto I knew for several years who now works in Sao Paulo for a U.S. airline. When I first met him, years ago, at Pointe 202 in Rio, he spoke zero English. Now, his English is quite good and he has no problem checking in and communicating with passengers using the U.S. airline.

Brazil is an extraordinary place. The culture and view of sex is unlike the viewpoint in most other countries. Consequently, unlike in most other countries, it is possible to meet a handsome garoto and have an enormous amount of enjoyment and also have a long-term relationship. Some Americans actually marry Brazilians, although I would never do that. Gay marriage in Brazil is legal.

On the other hand, some of the garotos in the sauna only want a quick buck and are what is customarily referred to as a hustler or male whore. They are the exception in the saunas.

[Guest tomcal]

Are these people really viewed and considered as just.....male whores?

Just asking in reference to an earlier observation made by someone here.

I totally agree with Mvan1

I count on FB 72 former or present sauna guys as friends.

I think for me the difference in how clients of the Brazilian sauna guys view them vs rentboys in other parts of the world , has to do with:

1) the atmosphere you meet and operate in the saunas. Unlike a guy you call from rentboy for a hour and you spend a few minutes of small talk and then have sex. In the saunas you socialize with them for extended periods of time before and a lot after your encounter! I almost always offer to sit down in the bar and have a drink and or food with them afterwards, so you get to know something about them and they about you.

2)Brazilians really do view sex differently then most other cultures do. Most of the guys I have met, their families know what they do for work, their lovers do, it is looked at as a occupation. For about 4 years I hung around with 7 guys who were all friends growing up in the same neighborhood in Niteroi, and they all went to work at 117 at the same time. They all ended up working for about the same time period and when they got to be around 23 or so, ended up getting 40 hour a week jobs in different fields of work. I went last year to a party in Niteroi were they all attended with their current significant others, and several of the girlfriends came up to talk to me and tell me they had always wanted to meet their BF's American "friend"!

I have been to birthday parties, dinner with their spouses, one wedding and two baby christenings over the years.

there is no doubt that for those of us who go to Brazil often, have developed many long term friendships, where there is no sex, but social events are still done together. I just got a message today from a guy I have known for 5+ years, and he said he heard I was in town and why didn't I call him so we could have met up for dinner. He is a military policeman, who I met in 2003 and in 2005 he joined the military and I meet up with he and his wife for dinner at least once a year.

this is a rather wordy response to your question and I think if you truly are asking it to find out what peoples views are the truth is the answer is yes and no depending on the person you are directing it at! No different for gay or straight, some of us develop relationships/friendships and others view them as male whores.

These guys have a healthy attitude towards sex and a lot of the rest of the world could learn from them, and maybe we would have a lot less people screwed up sexually.

Just like we have people who post on here not to be helpful but try to create friction/troll, you have clients who do not care about developing a friendship with a escort or spending anymore then the 40 minute rental of the room! and those guys would be the ones that to answer your question "view them as male whores". Maybe this question would have been better asked as a poll question?

"Do you view sauna guys as just Male Whores" then you would get a better range of how they are viewed. imho

[mvan1]

I totally agree with Mvan1

I count on FB 72 former or present sauna guys as friends.

I think for me the difference in how clients of the Brazilian sauna guys view them vs rentboys in other parts of the world , has to do with:

1) the atmosphere you meet and operate in the saunas. Unlike a guy you call from rentboy for a hour and you spend a few minutes of small talk and then have sex. In the saunas you socialize with them for extended periods of time before and a lot after your encounter! I almost always offer to sit down in the bar and have a drink and or food with them afterwards, so you get to know something about them and they about you.

2)Brazilians really do view sex differently then most other cultures do. Most of the guys I have met, their families know what they do for work, their lovers do, it is looked at as a occupation. For about 4 years I hung around with 7 guys who were all friends growing up in the same neighborhood in Niteroi, and they all went to work at 117 at the same time. They all ended up working for about the same time period and when they got to be around 23 or so, ended up getting 40 hour a week jobs in different fields of work. I went last year to a party in Niteroi were they all attended with their current significant others, and several of the girlfriends came up to talk to me and tell me they had always wanted to meet their BF's American "friend"!

I have been to birthday parties, dinner with their spouses, one wedding and two baby christenings over the years.

there is no doubt that for those of us who go to Brazil often, have developed many long term friendships, where there is no sex, but social events are still done together. I just got a message today from a guy I have known for 5+ years, and he said he heard I was in town and why didn't I call him so we could have met up for dinner. He is a military policeman, who I met in 2003 and in 2005 he joined the military and I meet up with he and his wife for dinner at least once a year.

this is a rather wordy response to your question and I think if you truly are asking it to find out what peoples views are the truth is the answer is yes and no depending on the person you are directing it at! No different for gay or straight, some of us develop relationships/friendships and others view them as male whores.

These guys have a healthy attitude towards sex and a lot of the rest of the world could learn from them, and maybe we would have a lot less people screwed up sexually.

Just like we have people who post on here not to be helpful but try to create friction/troll, you have clients who do not care about developing a friendship with a escort or spending anymore then the 40 minute rental of the room! and those guys would be the ones that to answer your question "view them as male whores". Maybe this question would have been better asked as a poll question?

"Do you view sauna guys as just Male Whores" then you would get a better range of how they are viewed. imho

Earlier this week, I completed my 122nd trip to Brazil. This means that I have spent a lot of time in Brazil and that I know their culture.

I can confirm, without hesitation, that the substance of what tomcal wrote in his post above, is 100% accurate.

Quite simply, there is no other country, in the world, that is comparable to Brazil for building close and fulfilling relationships that are so easy to establish.

If we have any doubters in the house, you are not a regular visitor to Brazil or you have never been there.

If you have never visited Brazil, go there! You will create very fond memories that will last you a lifetime.

-

[Guest parisrio2000]

callipygian, it may go against what I said before but being a contrarian I have to now take the opposite side. These guys usually have a terrible character. They lie, cheat, and sometimes steal. They will pretend anything, and always have the eye on money. Many have contempt for the clients and some have contempt for gays. I don't blame ihpguy or others for having the attitude they do, because if you trust them and like them chances are you will eventually be betrayed. This is especially so for the more handsome ones who always have their eye on getting an advantage in some way. I don't mind this because what I admire is the perfection of the male form and I pay to admire the few who possess true beauty, which is rare. As I've said before, in the US I can't find what I'm looking for at almost any price, so I do like Brazil for this.

Diego is indeed handsome...if you say this is his age I believe it, though he did look older to me and even in these pics looks older. I never hired him, though looking back on it maybe I should have. Is he a top?

Since tomcal is uninterested I offer again,

http://www.boytoy.com/forums/index.php?/topic/23239-i-want-pics-of-some-boys-at-117/

I will indeed buy a boy to anyone who does what I ask for in that link. And I think there may be quite a few other members here (MsAnn?) who would also be interested to see the new muscleboys.

[Guest tomcal]

Diego is indeed handsome...if you say this is his age I believe it, though he did look older to me and even in these pics looks older. I never hired him, though looking back on it maybe I should have. Is he a top?

parisrio2000,

I do agree with you he does appear several years older then his age, when I originally met him he looked like he was 19 but with the muscle development over the last couple years whether thru hard work/gym and or steroids his face is more mature looking, still very handsome as you say! He is very reserved/quiet when you first meet him. Now he laughs a lot when we are together and very affectionate and a very good kisser!! I have done 3 ways with him where he has topped the other guy.

[Guest parisrio2000]

parisrio2000,

I do agree with you he does appear several years older then his age, when I originally met him he looked like he was 19 but with the muscle development over the last couple years whether thru hard work/gym and or steroids his face is more mature looking, still very handsome as you say! He is very reserved/quiet when you first meet him. Now he laughs a lot when we are together and very affectionate and a very good kisser!! I have done 3 ways with him where he has topped the other guy.

I don't like kissy kissy I like violence

[mvan1]

"callipygian, it may go against what I said before but being a contrarian I have to now take the opposite side. These guys usually have a terrible character. They lie, cheat, and sometimes steal. They will pretend anything, and always have the eye on money. Many have contempt for the clients and some have contempt for gays. I don't blame ihpguy or others for having the attitude they do, because if you trust them and like them chances are you will eventually be betrayed."

Let us do a little "editing" of your post -

Where you wrote, "These guys usually have a terrible character." I would change that to - These guys SOMETIMES have a terrible character.

Where you wrote, "They lie, cheat, and sometimes steal." I would change that to - They sometimes lie but rarely cheat or steal.

Where you wrote, "They will pretend anything, and always have the eye on money. Many have contempt for the clients and some have contempt for gays." I would change that to - They sometimes pretend they are happy and some only have their eye on money. Few have contempt for gays because the garotos are voluntarily having gay sex with clients for money. If they have contempt, as you wrote, the contempt would be for themselves for engaging in gay sex.

Where you wrote, "I don't blame ihpguy or others for having the attitude they do, because if you trust them and like them chances are you will eventually be betrayed." I would change that to - If you trust them and like them and they like you, chances are you will rarely be betrayed.

I was never betrayed during any of my many trips to Brazil. I have kept contact with countless garotos and regard those garotos in high regard.

I think it is sad that you have such a negative opinion of the very guys you engage for intimate engagements in the saunas.

Thankfully, not many hold the views you expressed in your post. If such an opinion was popular, Brazil would not continue to attract gays from all over the world.

[Guest parisrio2000]

"callipygian, it may go against what I said before but being a contrarian I have to now take the opposite side. These guys usually have a terrible character. They lie, cheat, and sometimes steal. They will pretend anything, and always have the eye on money. Many have contempt for the clients and some have contempt for gays. I don't blame ihpguy or others for having the attitude they do, because if you trust them and like them chances are you will eventually be betrayed."

Let us do a little "editing" of your post -

Where you wrote, "These guys usually have a terrible character." I would change that to - These guys SOMETIMES have a terrible character.

Where you wrote, "They lie, cheat, and sometimes steal." I would change that to - They sometimes lie but rarely cheat or steal.

Where you wrote, "They will pretend anything, and always have the eye on money. Many have contempt for the clients and some have contempt for gays." I would change that to - They sometimes pretend they are happy and some only have their eye on money. Few have contempt for gays because the garotos are voluntarily having gay sex with clients for money. If they have contempt, as you wrote, the contempt would be for themselves for engaging in gay sex.

Where you wrote, "I don't blame ihpguy or others for having the attitude they do, because if you trust them and like them chances are you will eventually be betrayed." I would change that to - If you trust them and like them and they like you, chances are you will rarely be betrayed.

I was never betrayed during any of my many trips to Brazil. I have kept contact with countless garotos and regard those garotos in high regard.

I think it is sad that you have such a negative opinion of the very guys you engage for intimate engagements in the saunas.

Thankfully, not many hold the views you expressed in your post. If such an opinion was popular, Brazil would not continue to attract gays from all over the world.

mvan to each their own

given that this is the kind of thing I like about Brazil http://www.literotica.com/s/dominated-in-brazil-ch-01 ...I don't mind if the guys are cads or selfish. I'm not really looking for intimacy, in fact that turns me off. But I would be wary of trusting a male escort in any country for anything big.

One small quibble with what you say. It's perfectly possible for a guy to be both a male escort and to have contempt for gays. This is especially so if he takes money for the gay sex, and especially if he's an exclusive top, as that is not really seen as "gay" in many countries or places.

[TotallyOz]

I find this conversation very interesting. Being a former pimp, I can tell you that there are two sides to escorts. The truth is that escorts are paid for sex and in the end, that is what they are after and it is their job to get that in any way possible. If that includes lies and deceit, then that is part of the job as well. If some are surprised at this, you really need to go back and rethink the exchange of sex for money.

I can also tell you that escorts like spending time with some clients and detest spending time with others. Some enjoy the attention they get from men but also enjoy the conversation and the way they are treated. In some cases, they can't wait to get away from the guy. I think both have to do with the way they are treated.

I have been to Brazil on less trips than Tom and Mvan but my trips are usually longer and I have been there on many occasions for 4-6 months at a time. The guys that were with me were with me for the money I paid them but they also loved the 3 ways and groups and dinners and trips and shopping sprees. I can't tell you the number of guys that I met 10 years back that I have not hired in 10 years but still keep in touch with me and chat with me. The reason for this is I treated them like a true friend and boyfriend as opposed to a piece of meat.

As my mother said, the proof is in the pudding. A lot has to do with the way you treat guys. When I am in Thailand I have never had one guy that has been with me who has regular clients not be willing to give up their week or month to be with me. It is not because I am sexy and not because I pay them outrageous prices. It is because they know I actually do care about them, their future and will treat them with great respect while they are with me.

Boytoys, escorts, hookers, etc around the world are the same. They have preferences as well. They like being treated with respect and kindness and not like a piece of meat. In Tom's adventures so eloquently outlined above, I have met and been with 2 of the guys for long periods of time and know them for a long period of time. They are working boys but they also are open to deeper friendships with guys that treat them right. One guy, I have known for at least 10 years and I see when in Rio and have gone years without seeing and yet I still get emails and photos and Happy Birthday reminders. To me, this says they are much more to me than just a hooker. But, then again, I never treat them just like a hooker.

One thing I remember from Tom and I have said myself is that I don't like to recommend guys to someone as when you do, you never know what experience that person will have with the boy. 10 guys can see Diego and all 10 may have different experiences with him and come away with either happiness or disappointment. A lot comes into play with a sexual encounter. The age, weight and size of a penis, are just 3. But, also the respect, kindness and attentiveness are some others. But, also the boy may be having an off day, may have had a fight with his boyfriend or wife or their child may be sick and their mind is preoccupied. They still need to make money and thus why they are in the business.

I don't quibble with anyone. I just say that we all have different experiences with guys. But, mine have been good 90 percent of the time.

[mvan1]

"- - - But I would be wary of trusting a male escort in any country for anything big."

Last year I took a garoto to Capetown, in South Africa to visit some cousins I have that live there. The garoto was a perfect gentleman and I know that he was comfortable there and that he had a splendid time. My relatives enjoyed the company of the garoto. Where is the trust element? I am puzzled.

So, in your opinion, I should be wary of trusting him in any country for anything? Now that is a difficult one to accept or understand.

____________________________________________

[ihpguy]

When they reach their sell-by dates, and are still at the saunas almost nightly, and not an occasional way to earn a little or a lot of extra money besides the regular job, they are male sex workers.

I don't come here three or four or five times per year for the last 12 or 14 years.

I haven't made 122 trips here. Nor need to total them up.

I live here permanently and have for over five years now. So I do know a bit about which I write.

They can have a good attitude or a bad one. However, if they stay in this life, in this world of rentboy saunas and sex motels, all it is in the end is the same-old, same-old....show me the money, honey.

[Suckrates]

When they reach their sell-by dates, and are still at the saunas almost nightly, and not an occasional way to earn a little or a lot of extra money besides the regular job, they are male sex workers.

I don't come here three or four or five times per year for the last 12 or 14 years.

I haven't made 122 trips here. Nor need to total them up.

I live here permanently and have for over five years now. So I do know a bit about which I write.

They can have a good attitude or a bad one. However, if they stay in this life, in this world of rentboy saunas and sex motels, all it is in the end is the same-old, same-old....show me the money, honey.

As it should be..... If that is their only resource for maintaining some Quality of life in their impoverished country, you GO boy....

Its the john who goes into this thinking they will find some soul mate and live happily ever after that is the truly misguided one...

Basically you are a "wallet", not a person to them.....

[Guest tomcal]

One last comment from me that I think best summarizes this conversation for me!

Last Monday when I was in bed with Diego, we were talking about my trip and he says:

:
"você é um grande safado" translation = You are a big whore! and I said "I know" and he

says "the difference is you pay to be a whore and I get paid to be a whore"! So True! We both

laughed and continued having fun..

also I remember sitting with the owners of 2 saunas one night at dinner some years ago(the owners of the Rio saunas are all friends and do go to each others parties) and they both said "remember you can be friends with the boys but once a sauna boy always a sauna boy! meaning don't fall in love because you will get taken advantage of.

[Guest Driver]

I'm glad you had a good time. I'm also glad 202 is still picking up. Tomcal, could you link me the apartment you use in Ipanema if you get moment. I normally stay in Copa but one trip i should try Ipanema.

[Guest tomcal]

Driver, as you know I always stayed in Copacabana until about 3-1/2 years ago when I switched to Ipanema and I like it a lot! I use Rioapartmentrental.com I have rented about a dozen or more times thru them and have referred 4 friends to them and everyone has had a good experience. Their staff all speak English. When you go to their site, on the left hand side there is a yellow section saying featured apartments. then choose Ipanema and what type of apt., 1,2 or 3 bedroom. It's been my experience that the 2 bedrooms are not that much more then a 1 bedroom and I like having the extra space and usually a 2nd bath comes with that. they have a map section associated with each rental unit so you can see where it is located in relation to the beach etc.

[Guest callipygian]

Very much appreciate tomcal's travel log and goings on during his stay. Also, very much appreciate the dialogue regarding the sauna boys and how to navigate interactions with them.

PS: tomcal you should bottle your libido and market it. It might very well give viagra a run for it's money!

[Gotti]

One last comment from me that I think best summarizes this conversation for me!

Last Monday when I was in bed with Diego, we were talking about my trip and he says:

:

"você é um grande safado" translation = You are a big whore! and I said "I know" and he

says "the difference is you pay to be a whore and I get paid to be a whore"! So True! We both

laughed and continued having fun..

also I remember sitting with the owners of 2 saunas one night at dinner some years ago(the owners of the Rio saunas are all friends and do go to each others parties) and they both said "remember you can be friends with the boys but once a sauna boy always a sauna boy! meaning don't fall in love because you will get taken advantage of.

[Gotti]

Thanks Tomcal for printing this landmark dialog he had with a sauna boy. When a john (like us) gives money to have access to something that by the order of nature he could not possibly get, does that makes him better? When you are on your knees in front of 3 naked boys, half your age, are you absolutely positive about your moral superiority?

[lookin]

When you are on your knees in front of 3 naked boys, half your age, are you absolutely positive about your moral superiority?

Hardly! And if I were, I hope I could talk myself out of it.

[Guest Driver]

Thank you for the reply. I find their site very basic when it comes to tools. On airbnb i can restrict apartments to very specific criteria and to an area of the map that i am currently viewing. If i move the map, my criteria moves to my new location.

However on airbnb they do not often highlight guest policies. I have this time asked them specifically using NYE as my example of wanting a guest but being refused. It was a fictitious example but i found it useful in broaching the subject. My hosts for next april appear to be a gay couple so i'm not convinced they havnt rumbled me.

EDIT: It's good that your apartment doesn't mind too much what you get up to in it. I don't want to derail this thread, but it's a good example of people benefiting from the travels and exploits of those who go before.

EDIT1: Hopefully on one of your visits i will get to meet you again.

[MsAnn]

As it should be..... If that is their only resource for maintaining some Quality of life in their impoverished country, you GO boy....

Its the john who goes into this thinking they will find some soul mate and live happily ever after that is the truly misguided one...

Basically you are a "wallet", not a person to them.....

That's the hard part, to keep reminding yourself that you are just a commodity to them, as they are to you. I have friends who travel all over the world chasing these boys, and they always fall in love. I tell them, "Don't you realize that the minute your taxi leaves for the airport, they are in someone else's lap, telling them the same thing they just told you. I think guys like Tomcal enjoys this so much because he completely understands what's going on, and he just enjoys the boys for who and what they are.

I know exactly what I look like. There are no misgivings, none of these boys would come round the house, unless my wallet was open. The only thing I ask is that while it's on my dime, tell me everything I want to hear, just scream "Oh daddy, and Oh Papi," and try to sound like you mean it, and I'll be happy.