12is12

Vinapu, with your permission I'd like to philosophize about this beyond BKK gaytown or sex. I believe your position reflects one of the PC commandments of our era: Thou Shall NOT be Judgemental! I adhere to this commandment regarding lifestyles / choices / preferences / opinions / etc. I do not adhere to it when somebody is ethically / morally / criminally wrong. It's one thing when a boy/escort isn't his best; it's quite another when he turns out to be a fake/fraud or dishonest or with a character/attitude that's obviously not temporary. Examples: a guy who goes back on his promises, a guy who keeps nagging for money, a guy who comes up with excuses to cut the session short, etc. I think it's our duty to warn, so other prospective patrons wouldn't fall prey, and so the boy learns the hard way. "Do unto others..." - you would want to be warned about such guys; why not warn others? Of course such a review should be factual and respectful, and of course each reader would draw his own conclusions. Same same goes for accolades and recommendations: your fellow men here would like to hear about FANTASTIC guys, and these boys deserve free positive publicity. (-:

I agree with you regarding taste and preferences, but it's always good to point out basic/general characteristics (attitude, honesty, passion, etc.) and warnings.

Solo traveler here.....

The last sentence is certainly true, though not sure why that should be so. Helping about specific people (in a respectful manner) would be very effective, as is done in review forums on other sites. That said, when members here switch to PMs - they are more forthcoming about specific boys, which has helped me quite a lot.

Are these dancers for offing? Is so, shouldn't they be wearing number tags?

Do they know/care we exchange info about them outside the bars? Is it ok to tell them "I was told or I read that you ..... (something positive or negative)"? Are they interested, or would they be interested, to use such a forum for PR? Any chance some are eavesdropping? (-:

Do guys here really check ID of every new boy they meet-off?

Thank you VERY much

Thank you too. (-:

Thanks a lot

Thank you, Since I do have a rather large suitcase, wouldn't it be best to change from the air link at Phaya directly to a taxi?

Friday 16:00 emerging from airport. What's the fastest mode of transportation to Tarntawan hotel? Taxi, or Air Link to Phaya-Thai/Makkasan stations? Which station is better? Are there taxis at these stations, with which to continue on to the hotel? While on the subject of transportation: According to Google results there's no Uber; right? I intend to visit 3 sites south of the city: Erawan Museum, Wat Asokaram, Ancient City open-air museum. Are there taxis on hand to ride from one point to another? Thanks (-:

Nice Boys is in Pattaya, right? Good reason to visit. Beyond the sexual aspect, sounds a bit funny. Hope the boys like it.

Again, this is only what I found as useful for me. DivineMadman’s motto: “Don't over-think; Be open; Be kind. Have fun.” Preparations before you go: Hygene yourself as before a romantic date. Place all valuables in safe. Have small bills for tips and charges (from 20 to 1000), and know what the rates are. At the bar: “Confidently walk into the bar, and have no fear. People go to these bars to off lads, so do not be shy. Never look like a newbie. If asked by staff how many times you’ve been to Thailand, your answer should be ”five”. If you like the bar, sit down & order a drink; if the boys are not to your liking, it’s OK to walk straight back out. In order to not appear like a first-timer, always insist on picking your preferred seat by yourself: usually at the back, a bit away from the stage but with clear view of it and sometimes a bonus view of the boys changing area or gym. Some bars also have upstairs seating that is worth checking out. Try to find place where you can have space for a boy to sit next to you if you plan to do that. If you arrive late after the show had finished and only want to off a guy, it’s worth saying that to the mamasan thus avoiding pay for drink/entrance. Bars are usually more flexible when it’s about closing time, especially when it’s low season. Do not trust the mamasans; well some are OK, but understand that some say anything to make a sale. The mamasans or waiters may sit down and start talking to you. if you don’t want them there, ask them to go. If they stay, they’ll expect a tip. Enjoy the boys. If you identify a boy you like, you can either engage the mamasan to bring him over, or wave the boy over to sit with you. If a boy sits with you without invitation, feel free to politely ask him to move on & don’t tip him.” Employ usual precautions with your valuables, but don’t distress yourself too much. Thailand is a safe country; boys are much more honest than their counterparts in most countries; and there are (almost) no reports of pickpocketing, theft and the like. Factors to consider when selecting a boy: eye contact; smile; behavior with other boys or patrons; sitting close; body language intimacy; his English; kisses; physical contact; gropes. He might be shy in certain aspects, but if he’s off in most/all the above – he isn’t the One. “After introducing yourselves & making polite conversation, if you want to off him – ask what he likes and doesn’t like in bed. If you have specific needs, check each one with him. Make sure there is no hesitancy in his replies. For example, if you have doubts about his willingness to kiss, ask to kiss him there. Some might not like doing that in the gogo bar, so I’m not sure refusal should rule him out. OTOH, if he makes a really good effort – you can remove any doubts about that, which helps to rule him in. Maybe try some discrete fondling. Be aware that acceptable behavior varies from bar to bar. In certain bars, the boys will get everything out only on stage. In others: they will strip off & sit on your lap naked, then if you really desire – suck you off in the bar. However, in the majority of gogo bars, the boys usually keep everything in their underwear & keep up appearances on the premises. If in doubt, watch what’s going on with other patrons, or wait for the boy to make the first risqué move.” ASK HIM WHAT HIS RATE IS. “If he asks for too much (for you), counter with a lower offer. If he won’t settle at a reasonable price for you, avoid prolonged haggling. If you decide not to off the boy, politely tip him (100-150) and send him away.” Make politely clear to him that if he doesn’t perform as agreed, he won’t be paid per agreement. For example: “no power, no money....if it doesn't get hard, I'm not paying.” Finally, “check his ID card to ensure he is 18 (including that his picture matches his face) BEFORE paying any off fee!” It’s acceptable to politely inquire if other staff members at the bar (waiter, barman, mamasan, DJ) are also for offing. At the hotel: Show respect for the boy on the way to the room, and in the room: continue polite conversation; offer to buy him a snack, or give him something from the minibar; invite him to shower first (if not together); etc.” In a few hotels, he might have to register at reception. “When you off him the first time, don’t hurry with a promise to off him again; a ‘maybe’ is enough. OTOH, if you are impressed with the boy & want to see him again, you may want to secure the next appointment right there in your room before he leaves. Tips are paid before he departs. You should have planned carefully so you have the exact notes to pay him exactly what you intend (and extra if he deserves it).” And again - DivineMadman’s motto: “Don't over-think; Be open; Be kind. Have fun.” Most of the quotes above are by z909 from:

Concentration and summary of inputs from blog, forums, posts and PMs. Again, no personal experience as yet. Massage explainer on ShamelessMack’s blog: https://shamelessmacktwo.travel.blog/massage-glossary/ "Prince, Hero, and tons of others. Massage minimum tip is often 1000 or 1500 depending on the place, and then a fee for the room 500-800 depending as well. In all the above, find a mamasan you like and have them give advice. Or have someone interpret for you." The Prince Men’s Spa gets most votes, though it’s expensive and there is at least one report on cramped room and leaky AC. Oil massage 60 minutes: 1,100 baht, minimum tip 1,200 baht. "For hygiene and facilities my vote goes to MyHero in Sukhumvit soi 11, bit of a distance from Silom ghetto but easy to get to. Like Prince, they tend to glance over the massage part and go to second act as fast as possible." "The highly rated (on Travelgayasia) Magic Touch opens at 10:00 each day. Not much choice in the first few hours. Easy to find; it’s off the soi that runs up the side of Le Meridian hotel." "Paradise on Silom Soi 6 opens at 10am (according to google). It's not a full-service gay shop as Prince or Arena or Senso, but it's very gay nonetheless, meaning "things" WILL happen there….." "Senso: 60 minutes’ oil massage was priced at 1,000 baht with a recommended minimum tip of 1,200 baht." "Tarntawan Massage, not to be confused with Tawan Massage inside Soi Tarntawan. About 12 service providers visible from the front of shop, majority of which were men. Foot massage: 250 baht for 60 minutes. Baby oil massage: 500 baht for 60 minutes." Small shower, low water pressure. "Bangkok Massage is in the epicenter of action, right under Lucky Boys. Along with Arena and Senso open early afternoon, like 2 or 3 p.m. Adam and Nakarat may be opening earlier, like noonish." VK / VCK / CK – less recommended, as is Indra.

After initiating 9 threads and pouring questions ad nauseam, it’s time to start giving back. Below is a concentration and summary of what I’ve gleaned from blog, forums, posts and PMs. Hope this might be useful for pre-BKK newbies like me. This isn’t a definitive tutorial, but rather what I understand to be useful info for me. Quotation marks aren’t associated with contributors. Sorry about that; the idea of publishing my tutorial came to me too late for researching footnotes. Kudos go to: vinapu, drimvoiz, ggobbk, macaroni, divinemadman, spoon, patanawet, jasper, gerefen, boy69, z909, zoomy02, and others unmentioned. I THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR PATIENT GENEROUSITY, AND FOR MAKING MY UPCOMING VISIT THAT MUCH BETTER. (-: “Before you go exploring gogo/off bars, why not go for an early drink and maybe meal in Silom Soi 4 – the gay soi – to soak up some of the atmosphere and meet someone to ask their experiences. Balcony Pub opens at 5.30 pm (but is quiet till about 8 then very busy by 10 for their free show at 10:45 with Coyote boys and cabaret). Connection, Welcome and Telephone Pub – all on the same soi – have similar opening times and prices.” Bar explainer on ShamelessMack’s blog: https://shamelessmacktwo.travel.blog/bar-glossary/ Bar rates: entry/drink – 350; tip boy for short sit-down – 150; tip for mamasans – 100 (only if they helped and weren’t pesty); off – 500 (maybe less); tip for ST (Short Term 45-90 minutes) – 1500-2000 (more toward 2000). Jupiter and Moonlight consider themselves and/or really are “classy” (e.g. boy “models” and their shows may be “the best”) and are more expensive: entry for Jupiter is 500; drink in Moonlight is 450. Maybe so is Tawan because of the “muscle hunks” there, but “many of the hotter guys that worked there have apparently moved on to Jupiter and Moonlight”. The main batch of regular (i.e. not "classy") bars close together is (in apparent order of popularity): Lucky Boys, Screw Boys (“badgering mamasans”), Fresh Boys, Dream Boys, and maybe Banana Boys (“very crowded benches”). Southward are Tawan, Nature Boy, Golden Cock, Hotmale (apparently already “tired”). “In Lucky, Screw and Banana boys are more engaging. In Dream, Jupiter and Moonlight guys are less engaging but hotter.” Apparently “Tawan , Screw, Golden Cock and Nature are more adventurous (allowing wild patron-boy action while seating); Dream, Moonlight, Hotmale, Jupiter – not so” Mamasans can be helpful in finding the right boy for you, but they might also have ulterior motives including tips for themselves. Don’t let them badger you into sitting with them. Mamasans recommended for reliablility: Neung at Jupiter and Emmy at Moonlight. “For offing a guy, Monday night is the night you'll have the least amount of competition. Weekend nights bars are crowded.” “Babylon. 5-9 PM on Saturdays and Sundays are the best time to be there.”

20 baht = 60 American cents. Is this a tip sum for something? I thought the minimum for anything would be 100 baht.....

Reader, "better" is of course a matter of personal taste. There's no way or reason to discuss this. (-: Please correct me if I am wrong: The 3 bars u mentioned offer bigger bodies/muscles, but not necessarily bigger dicks. 'Normal' or lean/swim or twink types also have big dicks. I actually prefer these because body builders aren't my type, and am therefor looking for recommendations in this direction.

Drimvoiz, it's not just you. I humbly submit we are the majority. Bigger is better.

Given the discussion in the "boys' money" thread about how for most of them livelihood is meager - Isn't it odd they don't jump at the opportunity to make money also during the day? Why not be bar-associated at night and daytime freelancers?

(-: Actually, my 1st question should have been: how and where do I find him? BTW, after I off a boy and like him, is it OK to set another session with him for the next day without going to the bar and paying the off fee? If he must be there at evening, can we meet during the day, bypassing the bar?

Then why did he say that?

I was planning on doing just that, but then read two posts warning that all/most/too-many of the cocks in those shows are silicon/rubber fakes. I guess that's not so.....? Are these daily shows? Schedule-wise: in addition to the regular show, or after/before? Only in Moonlight and Dream? I guess by the time the lady was done sampling, she was short 1000 baht (-:

Your warning is noted, and tantalizing..... (-:

Sure hope this thread sparks numerous posts, like the "what do boys do with their money" did! Mekhin of Jupiter, whose "gigantic m*nh**d" is too thick for me. Nicky of Moonlight, though some have heard he was no longer there. Tiger of Tawan. #65 of Dreamboys. By my definition, big/long means 18+ cms, 2 hands to cover balls-to-head. But even if there are no boys with Latin-length to be found there, who are the ones holding bars' records in BKK's gaytown?