acs4l

Thank you for great report, I feel like I was there bar hopping with you..
Yes , indeed every trip  I  make a point to myself to visit at least once every bar  in Silom area usually alternating evenings between bars outside Patpong2  ( Banana, Jupiter, Moonlight, TharnTawan ) and those  in Patpong itself ( Dreamboys , Big Boys , Hot Male, FreshBoys and Good Boys), sometimes even try to squeeze more then one bar a night. I don't want to be one  complaining about  demise of boy bars and in second breatch boasting about not visiting one for years .
.............
as for heartbreaking stories unfortunately some of them may be true and equally unfortunately some of them may be not. So dealing with them we must use sound judgement and a grain of salt. At times we must even show our assholish side.
My two favorite  conversations already told here but I venture to repeat them again :
1/ boys contacts me on Line 'when you are coming again ? I miss you ", my answer " really , do you remember me ?' , his answer "no, but I still miss you " 
2/ boy arrived to hotel on motorbike and I helped him to find   spot to park it. At end of session , upon receiving his generous tip as I was happy with the encounter,  he asked
"can I get some  money for a taxi?"
In short, give them money because you like them, not because you like their story.
Hope you return to good health and bar hopping very soon. 
 

I m sorry for ur disappointing experience, rockeroy.
Leaving money and valuables outside a safe, or not in a hiding place or not with u in the shower - is a big NO NO, no matter how nice the guy seems.
With ur permission, I humbly submit that the right to b politely assertive comes with being a paying client. There is no reason not to politely tell B: u seem distracted; please put the phone aside and concentrate on me. In fact, I always tell them upfront: please turn off ur phone or silence/darken it and put it aside.
While it's obvios u r a nice non-confrontational person, I beg u to accept that the way u treated B invites him to continue such conduct with others. In fact, he probably disappointed u, because previous clients indulged him in a similar manner.....   )-:

Yes indeed it is not my intention to generalise but sadly I have enough real life examples in hand (some quite literally!) to be certain this is not just my imagination. 
I definitely agree there are others who pleasantly surprise by being hardworking in bed and out of. Yet for every one of these I can name another who is alcohol or drug addled, video game addicted, lost all his savings to gambling or just too deeply in the easy street lifestyle to give it up. 
I don’t mean to sound doom and gloom, it is what it is. 

Wasn’t exactly referring to laziness in bed but rather laziness in life. They find it hard returning to a normal job which requires hours of work for the same compensation of having their cock grabbed, even when they are well aware of they have aged out of the game . Which is why you see fat ageing bar boys working the same stage year after year. And I don’t mean being practical and going where the money is good. Some of them just want an easy life of working 3 hours, drinking the rest of the night; and sleeping until 6 pm. 

Problem with this is that it encourages laziness and after some time, the expectation of easy money just dropping into their laps

If I were a Thai guy with a big cock, and I knew how much these guys were earning for a 5 second feel, I'd be out the door of the convenience store and soon be waving it in the face of eager farang.
Many of these guys can pick up a quick 1000 baht in a few minutes! That's the equivalent of somebody working for 30 hours in 7/11. WTF?? The guys in the fuck show probably earn even more.
I came to the realisation of how ridiculous this earning capacity was when I was sitting in Boyz Boyz Boyz in Pattaya. Within less than a minute I'd handed over 800 baht for less than 1 minute of touching.
I don't begrudge these guys earning such easy money. Good on them for taking full advantage of what nature gave them, and of horny farang like me.

Given the average convenience store worker gets 400 baht for a 8 hour day, that 100 baht commission could be considered exorbitant. (Are you sure it's not 10 baht?)
Same goes for the 100 baht tip for guys who wander around the bar after 'performing' in the big cock show.
Performance back in the room is a different matter, given the fact that they are involved in an activity they would probably describe as distasteful.

My No 2 regular boy, has worked in Toy Boys for the last few years (and elsewhere in Pattaya for many years more). He told me a few weeks ago how he had managed to snag an American customer for a few days. He is almost 30, but a small slim gay Thai boy and still very cute looking.
The customer had wanted a long-time companion, and one of the mamasans at Toy Boys was telling the boys to ask for 3k baht a night, despite the dreadfuly low low-season  upon them.  No 2 told the guy he would go for 2k a night and was duly offed; several other lads teased him for selling himself too cheap.
However, the American ended up keeping him for 10 nights, so No 2 finished with 20k in his pocket while his peers in Toy Boys had struggled to find any customers at all and remained with empty pockets! 
The benefits of experience and a practical approach! 😂 
He will once again have me offing him for three weeks in September!

He is absolutely right! Across all ages and places, the average price of prostitution is a daily wage. It's just when first world tourists meet second and third world prostitutes, that things get out of order.
Whereas in Saranrom (streettrade, predominantly local market with Thai customers and Thai providers) boys still go for 500. 
When I was in Myanmar in January, prices as low as 30k MMK (about 6 USD) tip for one hour massage and happy ending. 
I have to admit I have problems finding boys for 1000 on the apps. I haven't been to Bangkok gogo bars for 6 years because I disapprove of their pricing.  
It is very important to distinguish what is asked for or offered and what is actually settled as a deal. 
I didn't know and would never know (different tip expectations for non-Thai Asian and Farang).
Whereas that Thai (and I as a foreigner speaking Thai) can get it considerably cheaper, I'm aware of and take advantage of.

Where and when did I write that? If I did, that was artistic liberty to give the events a more interesting or humorous turn. 
In my vast experience, if you take someone from a higher-end establishment or pick up someone from street-trade, if you 500 or 2000 for the encounter, there is no correlation to the service delivered. That's why I go for lower end. 
Can you elaborate on "greed and cruelty"? The misrepresention is presenting expected tips of 2000 THB as the norm. I provide an opposing view that a good time can be had for much less (1000 online vs. 500 own drink, 500 boy drink, 500 off fee, 2000 short time tip = 4500). 
Furthermore, I wish to point out that my various detractors have never met me and judge me by what I write, whereas members who have met me and know me in person defend me against unfounded accusations. 

I call it unreasonable. Around all ages and places, prostitution cost about a daily wage. Only when first-world tourists meet second and thirds world prostitutes, things get out of order. I have been asked for 2000, 2500 and 3000 THB as well, completely out of question, and not even a base for negotiation. Fortunately, there are some around who agree on a reasonable 1000, and there is street trade for 500.
500-1000 is in line with a daily wage and what I consider reasonable. Cambodia, where I pay 20 USD, is on the high side; but in Myanmar, for lack of tourists, you can get someone for equivalent of 10 EUR. 
I  haven't been to Bangkok gogo bars for over 6 years and can't see me ever going again. Why would I pay 500 for a drink to look at boys, when I can get a boy from street trade for the same price? I take all my bar business to Pattaya, and even there increasingly online dating. 
How much you tip or pay has nothing to do with your wealth. You pay for a service. Do you pay your hairdresser according to your financial situation?

Everyone has their own priorities in life.  When you look back, you will likely only regret the things you didn't do, not the things you did.  A remodeled bathroom versus not traveling overseas?  I'm guessing a very select few in their final years will regret not remodeling their bathroom versus not going on holidays to Thailand.  Just make sure you're not saving money and depriving yourself of fun.  
As the years go by, many people's health declines, and long trips overseas become more difficult, or sometimes impossible, due to physical constraints.  Put time on one side of a balance scale, and money on the other side.  Don't deprive yourself of pleasure by saving money that you may never be able to spend.

That’s what I say, though never needed for trade. 

I think it went wrong at this point.

Asking for 5000 is a red flag.  I would either counter with a reasonable offer (~2500) or terminate the conversation right there.   
Agreeing to meet when he already had high expectations was a mistake.

As for everything else, well the first reply by Vinapu is perfect. 

I'm feeling old thinking about the first years I came to Thailand (2012 was my first time) and I paid 2000 to the best looking barboys to take him home for short time, and 1500 was considered good rate for meeting up with freelancer via the apps in Bangkok... Inflation hits hard, also in Thailand.
Of course, I realize that everyone is different and has different preferences. But personally, I'm never a fan of long-term. The biggest reason for this is that I love my privacy. I enjoy having company around me. Going out to dinner together, having a drink at a bar. And of course, intimacy in the bedroom. But I really prefer to sleep alone. Without anyone by my side.
Another reason for me is that I'm overly aware that with a money boy, it's a business transaction. I enjoy having a money boy for company for an evening, but for a whole night, let alone a weekend or a week; no. Then I too often start to think he's only here for the money and isn't really interested in me at all. Or, as Olddaddy poetically put it:
And because I feel that way, I'm not interested in becoming too friendly. Somehow, after sex, I quickly get tired of a guy. Precisely because I sense there's no connection on a friendship or emotional level.
I'd rather split my money among different money guys for different nights than rent one guy for a longer period.
I can certainly relate. But I guess that so-called boyfriend experience just isn't my cup of tea. Or maybe I just haven't met the right guy yet. And do they even exist? Those who can truly give you the feeling of a connection that goes beyond financial ones, all night long, including the morning, and maybe even the entire weekend?
As I write this, I realize the part I find most exciting is the boyhunting: going to a bar and seeing if there's a guy you like. Making contact, taking him to your hotel. And then seeing how he is. Does he kiss well? How hot is he? What things can we do together? Is there some kind of connection? The discovery part, as Vinapu describes it. That can indeed sometimes lead to disappointment. Although I have to say, I've made more good discoveries in all these years than bad ones. But that might be because I've always been very critical of bars or apps.
These days, I have two regulars who I alternate with new discoveries. This way, I'm guaranteed quality with the ones I already know, but I can also make plenty of new discoveries during the vacation. A perfect combination. But even the regulars are only there for short-term dates. No overnights or longer.

I think 2500 is reasonable, although I was told they still have to pay their off fee to the bar for every night they don't work just to keep their slot or number in the bar.
A couple of guys I had a good daily rate setup with actually started with a long time off that stretched until mid day. That gave them a feel of what a full day with me is like before they quoted me a rate. I think part of it depends on the connection you build and how much work they think it'll be on their end.In most, if not all, of my arrangements like this, it was actually the guy who brought up the idea.
Some may also have other jobs or side gigs during the day that they’d need to give up, so that probably factors in too.
That said, some boys are just greedy or don’t really have the business sense to think long term.

Kissing is essential for me.   There are plenty of boys who do kiss.   
I make sure I brush my teeth & rinse my mouth with good quality mouthwash for about a minute.   Also I drink some cold water.   I will typically avoid spicy food beforehand as well. 

That's $200 AUD a day !!!
This is Thailand not Australia 
I would do it for that ,

I'm new to coming to Thailand and experiencing the Bangkok bar scene. My first trip was a few months ago and it was a bit rocky - a few duds but I managed to click with a Lao boy from a bar in Silom.

For the record, this is a straight guy. He's not the star of his bar - has a decent slim body and average looks but he made up for it by being enthusiastic with a good attitude while the more gorgeous boys were acting stuck up and aloof.

We did short time then dinner and exchanged social media details but I left Thailand the next day. Back at home, we would be in contact semi-regularly and we did some video chatting about when I was coming back.

During one of our calls, he brought up me paying him 5,000 baht a day to spend time with me. I expressed that 5K a day was an exorbitant amount but that we should wait to discuss it more in person to which he agreed.

He never explicitly asked me to send money in my months away from Thailand but always sent messages or posted statuses complaining about there not being customers, having to eat mama noodles every day, working night after night with no financial windfall, etc. but is always posting pictures and videos out with his buds drinking, clubbing or at karaoke.

So fast forward to this week, I'm in Bangkok. He meets me at my hotel, we go out for a meal, come back and have a fun night but come the morning he brings up the sordid topic of coin again.

I'm here for a month, the bar fine is 500 baht per day which comes out to 15k baht and he lowered his fee to 4k baht a day. I counter-offered to pay him 2.5K a day, plus covering all his daily expenses. I should also mention that his birthday is going to fall on a day while I'm in country (confirmed true by his ID card) and he's already asked me what I'm going to get him as a present.

This changed the mood and he got pouty. I tried explaining that I'm here for 30 days and that this is a guaranteed 75k (on top of me paying for everything plus his bday gift) instead of having to stand on his feet all night praying for a customer during low season but he insisted on 4k.

He said he was leaving and asked me to pay him 5,000 baht. There's no way in heck I actually owed him that much for one night but I just forked it over to avoid problems.
I walked him downstairs and while we were outside, he said he was hungry and I offered to treat him to food again. After eating we passed a barbershop and he wanted to get a haircut so I gave him money for that, too, while I sat and waited for him.

He then wants to rest back my hotel because he was tired and upon arriving to my room, he flops on the couch fully dressed facing away from me and starts to watch tik tok videos on his phone and then falls asleep.

I suppose this is because he lives in a hovel of an apartment with no AC so staying with me is better than going back there. He stays like that for hours while I do work on my laptop until he gets up to go back to his apartment and so he can go back to work at the bar.

He holds out his hand and asks for taxi money, which I did not give. I made up an excuse about how I needed to hit the ATM and I'd reimburse him later. 

After he leaves in a huff, I'm left scratching my head with a bad taste in my mouth after my first day back in Thailand. 

Any advice from more learned forum members? Was I being a cheapskate? He has a few friends at the bar who live in his same building so it could be a losing face/competition thing among them but don't know for sure.

For what it's worth, I think he is playing you like a violin, as he knows you are new to this business in Thailand.
He has taken advantage of your generosity and looks forward to you just handing over money.
I'm a big believer in the bulk discount. You offered 2500 baht per day. There is no way a guy in a bar can earn that every day over an extended period - unless he is a bar star.
If a guy starts asking me to buy him things, that's it for me. He needs to know I am not going to be his ATM. Bye! 
It's important for me to sit down with the guy at the beginning and come to a mutually satisfactory arrangement regarding price and what we expect from each other. I think the arrangement must be good for both of us. I am aware of the financial advantage I have and so am always willing to err on the side of generosity. But I refused to be taken for granted.
I have had two regular guys in Thailand for years. The reason why were are still seeing each other is because we have an arrangement where I am a little on the generous side - I'm the one who suggests we go shopping - and in return they give me the boyfriend experience. Sex is always on tap whenever I want it, but twice a day is now enough for me, so they don't find that side of the relationship too arduous.
If I were you, I'd ditch him immediately and look for someone else. But I wouldn't embarrass him by chosing a guy from his bar.
 

I'm new to coming to Thailand and experiencing the Bangkok bar scene. My first trip was a few months ago and it was a bit rocky - a few duds but I managed to click with a Lao boy from a bar in Silom.

For the record, this is a straight guy. He's not the star of his bar - has a decent slim body and average looks but he made up for it by being enthusiastic with a good attitude while the more gorgeous boys were acting stuck up and aloof.

We did short time then dinner and exchanged social media details but I left Thailand the next day. Back at home, we would be in contact semi-regularly and we did some video chatting about when I was coming back.

During one of our calls, he brought up me paying him 5,000 baht a day to spend time with me. I expressed that 5K a day was an exorbitant amount but that we should wait to discuss it more in person to which he agreed.

He never explicitly asked me to send money in my months away from Thailand but always sent messages or posted statuses complaining about there not being customers, having to eat mama noodles every day, working night after night with no financial windfall, etc. but is always posting pictures and videos out with his buds drinking, clubbing or at karaoke.

So fast forward to this week, I'm in Bangkok. He meets me at my hotel, we go out for a meal, come back and have a fun night but come the morning he brings up the sordid topic of coin again.

I'm here for a month, the bar fine is 500 baht per day which comes out to 15k baht and he lowered his fee to 4k baht a day. I counter-offered to pay him 2.5K a day, plus covering all his daily expenses. I should also mention that his birthday is going to fall on a day while I'm in country (confirmed true by his ID card) and he's already asked me what I'm going to get him as a present.

This changed the mood and he got pouty. I tried explaining that I'm here for 30 days and that this is a guaranteed 75k (on top of me paying for everything plus his bday gift) instead of having to stand on his feet all night praying for a customer during low season but he insisted on 4k.

He said he was leaving and asked me to pay him 5,000 baht. There's no way in heck I actually owed him that much for one night but I just forked it over to avoid problems.
I walked him downstairs and while we were outside, he said he was hungry and I offered to treat him to food again. After eating we passed a barbershop and he wanted to get a haircut so I gave him money for that, too, while I sat and waited for him.

He then wants to rest back my hotel because he was tired and upon arriving to my room, he flops on the couch fully dressed facing away from me and starts to watch tik tok videos on his phone and then falls asleep.

I suppose this is because he lives in a hovel of an apartment with no AC so staying with me is better than going back there. He stays like that for hours while I do work on my laptop until he gets up to go back to his apartment and so he can go back to work at the bar.

He holds out his hand and asks for taxi money, which I did not give. I made up an excuse about how I needed to hit the ATM and I'd reimburse him later. 

After he leaves in a huff, I'm left scratching my head with a bad taste in my mouth after my first day back in Thailand. 

Any advice from more learned forum members? Was I being a cheapskate? He has a few friends at the bar who live in his same building so it could be a losing face/competition thing among them but don't know for sure.

I'm new to coming to Thailand and experiencing the Bangkok bar scene. My first trip was a few months ago and it was a bit rocky - a few duds but I managed to click with a Lao boy from a bar in Silom.

For the record, this is a straight guy. He's not the star of his bar - has a decent slim body and average looks but he made up for it by being enthusiastic with a good attitude while the more gorgeous boys were acting stuck up and aloof.

We did short time then dinner and exchanged social media details but I left Thailand the next day. Back at home, we would be in contact semi-regularly and we did some video chatting about when I was coming back.

During one of our calls, he brought up me paying him 5,000 baht a day to spend time with me. I expressed that 5K a day was an exorbitant amount but that we should wait to discuss it more in person to which he agreed.

He never explicitly asked me to send money in my months away from Thailand but always sent messages or posted statuses complaining about there not being customers, having to eat mama noodles every day, working night after night with no financial windfall, etc. but is always posting pictures and videos out with his buds drinking, clubbing or at karaoke.

So fast forward to this week, I'm in Bangkok. He meets me at my hotel, we go out for a meal, come back and have a fun night but come the morning he brings up the sordid topic of coin again.

I'm here for a month, the bar fine is 500 baht per day which comes out to 15k baht and he lowered his fee to 4k baht a day. I counter-offered to pay him 2.5K a day, plus covering all his daily expenses. I should also mention that his birthday is going to fall on a day while I'm in country (confirmed true by his ID card) and he's already asked me what I'm going to get him as a present.

This changed the mood and he got pouty. I tried explaining that I'm here for 30 days and that this is a guaranteed 75k (on top of me paying for everything plus his bday gift) instead of having to stand on his feet all night praying for a customer during low season but he insisted on 4k.

He said he was leaving and asked me to pay him 5,000 baht. There's no way in heck I actually owed him that much for one night but I just forked it over to avoid problems.
I walked him downstairs and while we were outside, he said he was hungry and I offered to treat him to food again. After eating we passed a barbershop and he wanted to get a haircut so I gave him money for that, too, while I sat and waited for him.

He then wants to rest back my hotel because he was tired and upon arriving to my room, he flops on the couch fully dressed facing away from me and starts to watch tik tok videos on his phone and then falls asleep.

I suppose this is because he lives in a hovel of an apartment with no AC so staying with me is better than going back there. He stays like that for hours while I do work on my laptop until he gets up to go back to his apartment and so he can go back to work at the bar.

He holds out his hand and asks for taxi money, which I did not give. I made up an excuse about how I needed to hit the ATM and I'd reimburse him later. 

After he leaves in a huff, I'm left scratching my head with a bad taste in my mouth after my first day back in Thailand. 

Any advice from more learned forum members? Was I being a cheapskate? He has a few friends at the bar who live in his same building so it could be a losing face/competition thing among them but don't know for sure.

I'm new to coming to Thailand and experiencing the Bangkok bar scene. My first trip was a few months ago and it was a bit rocky - a few duds but I managed to click with a Lao boy from a bar in Silom.

For the record, this is a straight guy. He's not the star of his bar - has a decent slim body and average looks but he made up for it by being enthusiastic with a good attitude while the more gorgeous boys were acting stuck up and aloof.

We did short time then dinner and exchanged social media details but I left Thailand the next day. Back at home, we would be in contact semi-regularly and we did some video chatting about when I was coming back.

During one of our calls, he brought up me paying him 5,000 baht a day to spend time with me. I expressed that 5K a day was an exorbitant amount but that we should wait to discuss it more in person to which he agreed.

He never explicitly asked me to send money in my months away from Thailand but always sent messages or posted statuses complaining about there not being customers, having to eat mama noodles every day, working night after night with no financial windfall, etc. but is always posting pictures and videos out with his buds drinking, clubbing or at karaoke.

So fast forward to this week, I'm in Bangkok. He meets me at my hotel, we go out for a meal, come back and have a fun night but come the morning he brings up the sordid topic of coin again.

I'm here for a month, the bar fine is 500 baht per day which comes out to 15k baht and he lowered his fee to 4k baht a day. I counter-offered to pay him 2.5K a day, plus covering all his daily expenses. I should also mention that his birthday is going to fall on a day while I'm in country (confirmed true by his ID card) and he's already asked me what I'm going to get him as a present.

This changed the mood and he got pouty. I tried explaining that I'm here for 30 days and that this is a guaranteed 75k (on top of me paying for everything plus his bday gift) instead of having to stand on his feet all night praying for a customer during low season but he insisted on 4k.

He said he was leaving and asked me to pay him 5,000 baht. There's no way in heck I actually owed him that much for one night but I just forked it over to avoid problems.
I walked him downstairs and while we were outside, he said he was hungry and I offered to treat him to food again. After eating we passed a barbershop and he wanted to get a haircut so I gave him money for that, too, while I sat and waited for him.

He then wants to rest back my hotel because he was tired and upon arriving to my room, he flops on the couch fully dressed facing away from me and starts to watch tik tok videos on his phone and then falls asleep.

I suppose this is because he lives in a hovel of an apartment with no AC so staying with me is better than going back there. He stays like that for hours while I do work on my laptop until he gets up to go back to his apartment and so he can go back to work at the bar.

He holds out his hand and asks for taxi money, which I did not give. I made up an excuse about how I needed to hit the ATM and I'd reimburse him later. 

After he leaves in a huff, I'm left scratching my head with a bad taste in my mouth after my first day back in Thailand. 

Any advice from more learned forum members? Was I being a cheapskate? He has a few friends at the bar who live in his same building so it could be a losing face/competition thing among them but don't know for sure.

After taking a man for two 3 night trips away from Bangkok and paying him 4,000 bt a day I was ready to spend some time alone. He asked if I would like to continue taking him at 2,000 bt a day (plus the bar fine for the bar of course). I didn't continue with him but we parted on good terms and I have taken him off since. I'm not suggesting driving their price down but I'm sure they look at the entire package we're offering eg. Are we going somewhere interesting and fun and having a good time? Are we easy going in the room and let them sleep when they want? Do we involve them in decisions about what we're doing and where we're eating?  

Please don't take my advice the wrong way ,I'm not trying to e condescending or rude 
But you seem to be getting too "personal" with him....he is a business contractor NOT your friend or boyfriend....it's nothing personal,,,strictly business 
If you want a boyfriend then look for a real one , this guy wants your money not your friendship
Obviously he is GOOD at his job that you want to hire him continually and good on him for that but please realise that it's all a business act just like the real estate agent who wants to sell my apartment who called me a friend when he only known me a day etc.  .
The boy may not even be like you see /imagine in REAL life ,it may be all a business act and good on him for giving you that experience 
No different paying say FloridaRob or Vinapu 5k a day ,they will talk nice to you ,listen to your problems, give you that boyfriend experience etc but it's the money they are after not a real relationship , it's a business ,he is a business man not a real boyfriend 
As for him asking for taxi money ,you should of worked this out before hiring him , you should of said including everything the daily fee ( except food of course) 
I just hired a locksmith off Airtasker app to fix my door lock on my apartment 
I put a reasonable price down $200 and a person accepted and  friendly guy arrived Chinese guy 
After the job he said , I have to charge you extra $20 for parking outside in the street meter 
I said nope... despite his fake friendliness through the job,  the fee includes the parking and whatever I told him , he pouted...but ...but...$200 dollar only for fix door lock he said.....I said you accept the job no mention of extra for parking...and your lunch money...$200 it is . now f..off !! 
So he uses or tries that tactic on everyone, not this little black duck ! 🦆 🦆