hojacat

Thanks @PeterRS for this long reply. Btw, here is an article about the author I mentioned above talking about Obelisks and its closing. It's pretty much the same as what he describes in his book. It contains some of the points you talk about like Obelisks being far, Purachai's campaign etc. Overall an interesting reading: https://dooneyscafe.com/a-spanking-for-sin-city/.

Wasn't a police raid what caused the closure of the gay sauna called "Obelisks" in Bangkok, though I think it happened a few years earlier than the raid Of Babylon you're talking about? I just remember reading about it in a book called "The Rice Queen Diaries" by this gay Canadian author that worked 3 years in BKK for The Nation. He was there the night of the raid and describes it in one of the chapter of his book. Seems like "Obelisks" was one of the highest-ranked gay saunas of the time, probably on par or even higher than Babylon. wonder what was the reason that Babylon survived the raid and Obelisks didn't? Was it the perseverance of its owner, his political connections or just that the advent of the internet had already transformed Babylon into an institution for gay tourists? Because of my age I don't remember hearing or reading about any of this events. The only police raid in Bangkok of a gay venue that I know is of G.O.D, which was closed because of the high activity of drug use happening in there.

If you read my postings about Vietnam , you know I recommend big international chains when it comes to hotels because some of the smaller local boutique ones end up having strange rules for guests, close reception after midnight, etc. It's also worth noting that because there is a smaller presence of international hotel brands in HCMC sometimes their rates might end up being even higher than BKK, even though overall HCMC is cheaper than BKK. I would recommend Intercontinental in Saigon or if you want to stay close to the river, then Le Meridien. Wouldn't recommend walking around too much around that area at night though. Have heard bad stories from some of my friends.

Both Krubb and R3 (and sometimes Mania, which is owned by the same people as R3) throw Orgy parties which usually go for 1-2 hours on a regular schedule. In both cases the price of entrance covers the entrance to the party and the right to have sex with performers, though the performer can say no to a paying guest if he really doesn't like it. I think Krubb put more on their website about which models they are having a given night. For the ones at R3, I guess you can ask the staff. I asked once a performer if he wanted to exchange line accounts, but he said no and if I wanted to see him again, I should have to go to R3 again. I'm kinda young though and don't pay for sex. I guess if you mention that you want to pay him, the answer might be really different. Personally, I prefer the o-parties at R3. I've only been to Krubb once, in August of last year on an orgy night but felt that their party was a bit disorganized, plus you don't have mattresses where to have sex on like you have at R3. On a side note, what's the mask situation at BKK's saunas at the moment? When I went to Krubb, 95% of guys was wearing a mask inside. It was better when I went to the o-parties at Mania for NYE, but even there you would see about 25-30% with a mask on, even when going into a foam party where you could hardly breathe. In May, I saw way less people wearing a mask on the streets and malls of BKK, but didn't go to any sauna. Hope using a mask in a sauna is a thing even in BKK now. At the saunas in Taipei and HK that I've been this year, you could only count 2-3 guys in a total that were still wearing a mask.

Which makes that list even more difficult to comprehend, as a lot of those destinations can't really be associated or considered destinations attracting high net-worth individuals. I mean you would imagine to see St. Bart's or the Cayman Islands instead of Oaxaca and Guadalajara, with all due respect for those two places. Personally if I have to come up with this kind of lists, I would definitely have them divided by category: big cities, small towns, big natural park/attraction, big historical/cultural site as you can't really compare Petra where you would spend at the most 1-2 days with a place like Paris and Tokyo. They are just two different things. A bit like comparing a poem with a historical saga like War and Peace.

Reminded me of this:

Judging by the high number of Mexican destinations, I would conclude most the voters were Americans and/or Canadians. Personally in Mexico, I only enjoy CDMX. Other places and I've been both on the Pacific and the Atlantic coast, don't appeal much to me. Maybe because I'm not really into neither Mexican food or guys. Plus safety is always a concern. I have been to 20 of the places mentioned in the article, but only I would consider only 2-3 of them in my personal Top 25 and I think there is a universal agreement among the people of this forum that BKK is in the list of each of us.

Gardasil works best when administered to a person who hasn't become sexually active yet. It's efficiency diminishes a lot when given to a person already infected with HPV. Yes, it's supposed to lower the frequency and severity of the warts outbreak, even on a person already infected with HPV but not that significantly and works differently from person to person. That's why I think it's a bit of a hard sell for most of the Thai guys we meet (including those that don't engage in transactional sex). To the best of my knowledge, there is no Asian country that offers Gardasil for free to adult males. It has to be bought privately and the price can be a bit steep.

I visited Koror and Tivat in 2021. As Russians and Ukrainians used to make the biggest portion of that country tourist base, Hornet was the app to use. Remember meeting this cute Russian couple but who were living in Germany. Not sure where the tourists are mostly from now with the war going on.

This is also my favorite version. It's actually a French/Italian co-production, something very common between the 60-80s. Tognazzi is one of the biggest name of Italian comedy, even though he is not much known internationally. Some of his characters like Il Conte Mascetti from the movie Amici Miei are universally known in Italy with movie quotes still used in everyday language. The soundtrack is from the great Ennio Morricone and the beautiful cinematography from Armando Nannuzzi who also did work on Visconti's Ludwig and Zeffirelli's Jesus of Nazareth. The translation and the Italian dubbing is also of very high quality. Italians have one of the best dubbing schools in the world as up to the late 70s they used to dub not only foreign movies but even Italian ones. Great masters like Fellini, De Sica will only add sound and voice in post-production. Plus, the cast of actors tended to be very international, so even later one dubbing in Italian movies was deemed necessary. Just a Youtube video from the dubbing of Fellini's Casanova. Just to show the intense work that used to go into it (sorry, it's all in Italian):

The restaurant in there is also very experience, much more than other 3-stars restaurants in cities like Hong Kong and Singapore. I guess being the only one in Taiwan with that recognition lets them go away with it.

I think you should, since you are so worried about catching diseases. Start taking it a week before heading to Thailand and continue till at least one week after you're back home. So at least you don't have to worry about catching the most serious of all the STDs. As for using a condom for oral, it's truly up to you to decide what's an accepted pleasure-risk ratio.

You don't have to stay in Ximending but doing so gives you the same advantages as when staying in Silom in BKK. First, it's the best place to do some "twink watching" as it's not only a gay area but truly the center of the youth culture in Taipei. Second, as you said, gives you the possibility to be able to simply walk in most of the gay venues and third, as a consequence of the second, you make it very convenient for the guys you meet in bars and more importantly on apps to come to your place. In Ximending, I would recommend the WestGate hotel, which is right at the MRT exit. CitizenM is also pretty good and quite new. Popular with young crowd. It's about 10 minutes walk from the RedTheater. I have also stayed at a hotel inHouse Heritage. it has good reviews on Agoda and the rooms are pretty decent but they don't offer much view. Plus, didn't really like the breakfast in there. I was surprised to hear it was one of the hotels recommended by the Taipei pride organizers. Don't recommend Airbnb in Ximending as buildings tend to be quite old. If you end up not staying in Ximending, the area around Taipei Main Station has a few hotels. Probably the most famous is Palais de Chine, which also hosts the only 3-star Michelin restaurant in Taiwan. Never stayed in their rooms though, so can't really tell you. I have stayed a few times in Zhongshan., a relatively big neighborhood north of the main station with a mix of residential and commercial parts. It's pretty enjoyable walking at night over there. Especially the area close to the Soi13 gay sauna. If you really want something modern, then definitely stay in Xinyi, which contains also Taipei 101. The area attracts big crowds of all ages during the day. Most of the big 5-star chains are located in there though I would recommend the W Hotel. Super popular both with the local and the visiting Asian gay crowd. The good thing is that hotels in Taipei, no matter the number of stars, never have a problem with you bringing over any number of guests😉. Plus most of the staff I've encountered has always been very polite and friendly.

The 1 in 3 or 1 in 4 people engaging in MSM being HIV+ in Bangkok is a bit old data. Remembering reading about it before my first trip to Thailand in 2008. It's true that Thailand was a pioneer in SE Asia about providing antiviral medicine and prep to the the general population, even heavily subsidized or completely free and even though it can be argued that things could have been done better, looks like it has paid off. Surprised about the trajectory of KL. According to my good Malay friend, prep is free in government clinics. He comes though from a upper class family, so things might be more accessible to him. No surprised at all about Saigon and I actually think the numbers are underreported. BB sex is almost de rigueur over there, but access to Prep and HIV medicines is still quite complicated. I know at least two guys there that became HIV+. Unfortunately there is still a big stigma about poz in Vietnam, even among the medical staff. They have told me quite a few ugly episodes they had to face. However, syphilis rates are really high in BKK, and that's easy transmissible through oral sex, especially if you engage into deep one. Using a condom though for oral seems like a hard sell to me, if you don't plan to engage in paid sex. cause if it's true one receiving oral sex with a condom on doesn't feel much, for the one giving it is pretty unpleasant. Yes, Thai guys can be pretty accommodating if they like you and you treat them nicely, however not many probably would enjoy the taste of latex in their mouth. I guess if you use one of those fruit-flavored condoms, it might be kinda doable.

I agree. I'm kinda in the same age group and never have had the need to pay in Thailand. Just an advice for @YoungWesternTop. If you are going to use the apps, especially in Bangkok, only discuss money if the guy says he is a MB on his profile or tells you that explicitly. If you assume they are mbs and start asking "How much?", you will get back lots of resentment, even from guys who would otherwise easily accept to have sex with you.

Great. I'll head to Fukuoka right after the pride. I've heard of a sauna in there, close to Hakata station but it will definitely be much smaller than the ones in Tokyo and Osaka. Thanks for your detailed description of the sauna in Shinjuku. It's definitely very useful to a person who wants to go there for the first time, as Japanese saunas are pretty different from saunas in other countries. I focused more on the dark room with bunk beds, as that was the thing that really struck me the most the first time I went there and I really think it's the most unique element in a Japanese gay sauna. I remember though a dark with rows of mattress where people were having sex in gay sauna in Seoul. It was in the Hongdae area.

Yeah, they stopped doing that around 2018. Was it because of what in a contemporary idiom would be called "embracing inclusivity" or just because they were in need for cash and was more profitable to let anybody in? I'll let you be the judge. Have been to at least 3 different saunas in Tokyo and at least one in Osaka. Didn't go to any in Kyoto and Kobe. Don't remember the names but looking at the pics of 24 Kaikan, I've definitely been in it. Big, clean, with a lot of amenities inside. I remember perfectly the room with pillows and tatamis were people slept or pretended to sleep and do some light fun instead.. It was at the end of a row of cabins, but you had to pay extra if you wanted to have one if I'm not mistaken. The highlight was definitely the big room filled up with rows of bunk beds. It was quite dark in there and the atmosphere around was definitely worth experiencing. There were people sleeping or just laying down , others talking, there was the unmistakable squeaky noise of box springs and a few people moaning loudly with their legs up in the air. and between all these , you had people walking and cruising around for a partner. Once you found one though, the bed turned out to be not that practical. First, it's smaller than most mattress you would find in a cabin. Then you would have a group of people around you who would not only watch , something that never bothers me, but as I would always go for the lower level bed, they would also touch you, sometimes quite firmly when you were in the middle of the performance. The people on the bed above you could also be a cause of disturb. One time this guy I was with stopped because the people that had climbed up the upper bed started being noisy and making the whole bed shake. The sauna in Osaka had the same format, though I think the cruise room with bunk beds had more of a maze-like layout which I think it made it even better. Anyway, I really think Japanese gay saunas should be on the "To Do At Least Once" list for gay travelers in Asia. I'm surprised they aren't more famous or known. Does it mean you aren't going to be there for Taipei pride this year @PeterRS?

It still happens though it felt a b it underwhelming from what I remembered. I only went there on a Saturday during my last trip to HK in May. Arrived there around 8PM. There were already plenty of people. I think the peak was reached by 9PM and then around 10:30 people start leaving. The sauna keeps being as clean as I remembered and its facilities are top-notch. However, the crowd is much mixed-aged than when I was there almost 9 years ago. There are still a good number of twinks, but gone is that allure of exclusivity that Hutong used to have (A local twink I met and hanged out with, when I mentioned Hutong, just said: "Haven't been there in awhile, too many uncles now") Messed around with three guys, plus the dark rooms are quite fun at Hutong, both for group fun or for seeing people doing it as, one of them has actually two beds inside. One thing to notice though, is the steep price. I paid 260HKD (aroound 33USD), which probably makes it the most expensive gay sauna in Asia (though I don't remember exactly how much I paid in Tokyo and Osaka). It's even more expensive that in some European cities known for high prices like London, Amsterdam, etc. They offer a discount for local guys under 25. I know there is at least one day when they can go for free as there was a big sign inside advertising it. I thought that day was Saturday but this guy I met on a Monday, told me that is actually Monday, the free night for under-25. As I was already with him, I couldn't tried it out. Next time, I'll do a bit more research and maybe visit on a Monday. Have you tried taking Uber from that location @PeterRS? I've used Uber all over Taiwan and it's been pretty reliable. A bit more expensive in Taipei, but still way less then I would pay in the US or Europe. It's also pretty popular in HK. I took it a few times and the price is not bad. Took it one time late at night, at around 1:00AM to meet this guy, from Jordan where I was staying to Kau Pui Lung for around 110HKD (14USD) round-trip. Still cheaper from what I would pay in LA or NYC. Do you plan to give it a try and see if you find it this time on your incoming trip @PeterRS?

They are both great cities which deserve to get visited again and again. Both are safe, modern, easy to navigate and most importantly have lots and lots of very cute friendly twinks. I guess one thing that goes into Taipei's favor is price. Pretty much in every category, Taipei is cheaper than Hong Kong and sometimes quite considerable so. As for the other things: Bars and clubs: Even though HK is a more compact city than Taipei, its gay venues are actually sparse all over HK island and the Kowloon peninsula. On the other hand, most of Taipei's are concentrated in Ximending (around the Red Theater which can rightly by called Taipei's gay street) and the nearby Zhongshan area. It's true also that Taipei has more bars on the "hardcore" side like Commander D (a fetish bar where you can find slings and gloryholes) and Hunt (a bar with theme nights, like underwear and towels and which has a small dark room). Saunas: I guess you don't more posts in this forum to convince you of how great of a gay sauna is Soi13 in Taipei. Hong Kong has a very good number of gay saunas (probably even more than BKK), though I would say Hutong sauna in Kowloon is the most valid competitor of Soi13. Apps: In both cities, there is plenty of activity and a very high number of profiles. In Taipei, I would say it's mostly Grindr and Hornet (I feel for some reason Blued is going down in popularity). In hong Kong, it's definitely Grindr, Blued and Jack'd.

Great info @PeterRS. the immigration line at TPE tend to be pretty slow (sometimes even more than at BKK) so this is definitely good news. Planning any trip soon?

Yeah, definitely true. I've had quite a few encounters at Soi13 where I started chitchatting with a guy, some touching and even kissing and then when offering to go to a cabin, he would say: "Oh, but I'm done for the night...just waiting for my friend to finish". That used to be my go-to website for my first couple of trips to Asia. From around 2013 though I started using more travelgayasia.com (now just travelgay.com) as I felt that it had more info and user reviews than utopia, plus the website layout was much better. Once that website decided to go global and not just focus on East and Southeast Asia, around 2018-2019, it started missing a lot of places and saw that the number of reviews went also down. (like the Nadam spa in Saigon that i mention in my other post which is not listed in there, even though it's the most popular sauna atm). As for utopia-asia, I rarely visit it anymore. The UI feels prehistoric (it hasn't changed since I first visited it in 2008). I imagine their website traffic is way below their peak years. If we are talking about Taipei specifically, according to my Taiwan friends, Soi13 is still pretty much the only player in the area (including New Taipei and Taoyuan) and that's why they could raise their price. What the international gay travel websites are missing in Taiwan is the info about the outdoor cruising areas, which even with the high number of love hotels and MTVs are still quite popular in there, including with the young generation. You find them only on local websites (in Mandarin) or from local guys.

Yes, at the entrance floor where the lockers are located and not in the cruising area, which is two floors down from the entrance.

There is already an Atlantis cruise (the biggest gay cruise organizer in the world) scheduled for November. It starts in Singapore and ends in Laem Chabang. I think it will be operated by Norwegian. Surprisingly it will be a bit long, 10 days and not just 7 like most of their cruises are, especially for a region where people can't get too much time off from their work. I know the CEO of Atlantis, Rich, is a next-level rice queen. He goes to every cruise his company organizes, has usually one of the biggest suites and throws every an after-party/orgy inviting only Asian twinks, though they can invite other guys. They announced the Asian cruise in early March, in two weeks almost 80 percent of rooms were already booked, including the most expensive suites. By now probably is fully booked. The demand is definitely there. I also went to a supposedly gay cruise this May from/to Laem Chabang. It was organized by a Thai group under the name XXOParty. 3 days with stops in Sihanoukville and Koh Samui. The advertisement implied that it was an exclusively-gay cruise but on the day of embarkation we realized that the gay crowd was only 300-400 and the rest, 1000+ people were straight families. Plus there were plenty of organizational and logistic issues, but those were mostly attributed to Costa cruise, which tends to be subpar compared to other lines. Overall wasn't the best event I've had experienced but I still went to an after-party, had fun with a couple of guys in my cabin and befriended a few people. I don't think there will be a second edition of it though. they just can't compete with Atlantis.

Excellent decision. I've been to Vietnam a few times and it's always so much fun. Since it's so your first time, you might get a bit overwhelmed with traffic., but the food and the guys make it totally worth it. Just follow the locals when you're crossing the street and use Grab as much as possible, since it's affordable over there. The guys are really and especially in HCMC, pretty wild. Plenty of action on Grindr and Blued, but Hornet also has a good number of profiles. Can't help you much with massage places and money boys as I don't do transactional sex, but I have seen quite a few mb in the apps and I assume the rate should be lower than Thailand. Republic Lounge used to be very popular as a bar and club, but I was told it closed last year. the only other place I used to go to is Thi Bar, right by Bui Vien St. (the Kao San of Saigon). It's a bar and actually the crowd is pretty mixed, as a few straight backpackers go there, but at night there is plenty of local eyecandy. It's owned by this French guy who I think has a local bf though all my Saigon friends know him pretty deeply, if you know what I mean. There is also a relatively new sauna called Nadam spa. I actually never been but read it on another forum where it said that the crowd was really good. So I suggested it to one of my Filipino friends visiting HCMC last month. He and his Aussie bf went there on a Sunday afternoon and said they had a blast. Probably around 80-100 people in the crowd, mostly locals and mostly twinks and in-shape young guys. It closes pretty early , I think at 10:00pm, so the best time is usually from 4-8pm, especially on a Saturday and Sunday. Another friend of mine is going to Saigon at the end of August and I will see what will be his impressions of that place but since I'm a sauna lover I already plan to visit it in October before heading to Taipei for pride or if not then in December. Now a few words about accommodation: guest check-in is strictly enforced in Vietnam, so no matter if your guy goes straight to your room or you go pick him up downstairs, his ID will be checked and his name written down. Some locals don't like that because they're shy or they say they get bad looks from the font-desk people, so an Airbnb is a good solution, especially if you want to have 3+ action at your place, which at least in my experience happens much more often even then in Thailand (plenty of times the guy I'm chatting with have asked if it was ok to bring over a friend of his, something almost unheard of in Thailand, where local guys frown upon when you suggest a threesome with another Thai). If you stay in an Aribnb, I would suggest getting an older place but that has been remodeled inside as those usually don't have a doorman, where newer high-rises usually have a reception and they also will ask for checking-in your guests. Another peculiarity in Vietnam is that the front-desk people at some boutique hotels just go to sleep after a certain hour at night like 12:00 or 1:00 AM. They will just lock the door, turn off the light and sleep right next to their desk, so if you come back late at night or you're just in your room but you want to go down to pick up a guy you will need to wake him up and then he needs to register your guest, and then he goes back to sleep, so if your guy wants to leave after you're done he needs to wake up the receptionist again. Pretty awkward and uncomfortable for all parts involved. Now this doesn't happen in all independent hotels, but it happened to me both in Hanoi and Saigon during my first times in there, so after that I usually go for a big international chain if I choose to stay in an hotel in Vietnam. Some Airbnbs have the same issue, as some of my fwbs usually have to leave before a certain hour since the doorman goes to sleep and they will be locked out if they get home later than that. So if you decide for an Airbnb, double check with the host that reception is opened 24hr.

I haven't read the owner's online reviews but on those two times I went there didn't notice or was exposed to any rudeness or lack of manners from the staff. I've had much worse, especially in some gay saunas in Europe.