macaroni21

I won't swear to the truth of this story, because it came to me secondhand. Nonetheless I am going to repeat it The Chinese also built a spanking new rail line connecting Addis Ababa to Djibouti, giving landlocked Ethiopia an outlet to the sea. But it still runs in fits and starts, as told to me by none other than an Ethiopian friend. Nothing wrong with the technology; during trial runs, it worked fine. Once the Ethiopians took over, things fell apart. Trains couldn't run on time for a multitude of reasons, not least of which was simply that the full crew simply didn't report to work on time! Not just the crew on the trains or at the terminii, but the loading/unloading crew at midway stops, delaying or messing up the loading and unloading and thus the overall schedule. My Ethiopian friend's point was that technology is only half the story. Management and societal culture can defeat the best of technology. The Thais may not be as bad as the Ethiopians, but they're certainly not in the same league as the Japanese, Chinese, Germans or Koreans.

Sounds straightforward enough. I presume there is an entry charge for the sauna facilities paid on entering like all saunas. I do wonder from a business angle whether the management, knowing which boys are regular hustlers, might give them a waiver on the entry fee since these are the boys that bring extra business Mack

I am hearing this from a different source who is able to read the local papers, but with a new twist: that the customers were also questioned. No mention about them being detained, but not sure if IDs of customers were also checked and recorded. And among the customers were some women!

I don't know about the others, but I do want to hear of your personal adventures. You write wonderfully and you get into the oddest situations, yet always with a bright outlook on life. Your reports are a joy to read. Never mind if you don't have the time to wrap everything up. Send us what you have.

$1000 over 9 days comes to $110 per day. I assume that does not cover airfare and accommodation. Were all 9 days in Rio?

Amazing Thailand! I can hardly believe this scene is still alive. I had a taste of it over 20 years ago when I was introduced by an acquaintance (reluctantly, as I recall) to one such cinema -- can't rememeber the name now. The screening hall was shabby with a distinct odour in the air. People were constantly changing seats (with the purpose of you-know-what), but most of all I remember a glimpse of the disgusting toilet where fullblown activities took place. I fled the premises within 10 or 15 minutes. Me, who normally can plumb great depths of debauchery.

Agreed, in the gay businesses especially those which see tourist traffic, the staff may be familiar with Western usage, but I was referring to normal usage among Thai people I've met, outside of gay sex-related environments. In any case, your examples are interesting in themselves. If the notion of "straight" is expressed with a strong relationship to "man" ("real man", "man=straight"), what does that indicate of their notion of gay?

Others have addressed Q1. Regarding Q2, the Patpong Soi 2 bars will have full exposure with engorged appendages at some or several points in their shows. Most of the time, the performers will come down from the stage and circulate amongst the audience for a few seconds' grope and a 100-baht tip. You can say "No, thank you" if you think 100-baht (3€) is ridiculous for a very brief handling of a sausage tied up in rubber. If you want something more aesthetic rather than crude (erotic is probably too much to ask for) Moonlight's and Jupiter's shows might fit the bill, but there will be some show items when drag lip-sync performers take centre-stage. Two bits more of explanation. Why do I say erotic is probably too much to ask for? Well, the performers are mostly straight. They may do nudity, even as a group, but touching another straight performer on stage in a truly erotic, sensual way is either beyond their instincts or inclination. They just don't do or maybe don't understand homo-erotic. How many of us would really know/want to do erotic with a woman even in a show act? Why can't they be trained? Bar owners can't really be bothered, especially since the boys move from bar to bar. Anyway, bar owners are policemen's wives (at least according to received wisdom), not show directors. Cold mechanic may be the best one can get. Second bit of explanation: I noticed you used the word "gay" in Q2 in a certain way. Avoid the use of this word (as you understand it) in Thailand. Thais tend to understand "gay" in a different way. They conflate it with katoey and cross-dressing. So if you use "gay" in your way, you will likely meet with cultural misunderstanding. E.g. if you ask to be shown to a "gay show", you will get drag. Regarding your Q3, ah, I see. You want homo sex 24/7 Unfortunately, not much to do in the day, in this respect. There are possibilities in the afternoon, say, after 3pm, in the saunas or massage parlours. But do give the ping-pong and shoot-darts show a try. I wasn't entirely joking. They're eye-openers and special Thai treats. I'm not sure where your Q4 is coming from, but I somehow have the sense that you're thinking Thais are mainly Muslim and thus were concerned that you can't find uncut boys in Bangkok? Pardon me if I have misunderstood.

Let me try to help with some of your questions. What/whom to avoid? Touts, touts and touts. They'll make a beeline for you once you look like a newbie. Mostly found in the Silom, Surawong and Patpong areas, they'll want to show you where the bars are, etc. Don't let them. Don't even answer their questions or make eye contact. Pretend that the only language you speak is Belorussian or Fulani and cannot understand a word of what they're saying. Keep walking on.The bars and massage places are not hard to find by yourself. Thailand is pretty open about sex and related businesses, and these establishments are not hidden in deep back alleys where tourists would never dream of entering alone and so might need someone to show them the way. They're on the main street! They have bright blinking neon signs. I would assume you have some sort of gaydar. Turn it on. Spot the gay guys and see where they're going. Follow. How much is an off? It'll vary from one place to another. Just ask the bar captain as to the bar fine and the desired boy about his own charges. They'll be upfront about it (especially the Vietnamese!) How much is a tip at the table? I assume you're indicating a situation where you've had a bar boy sit with you for more than 3 minutes but you really don't want him to continue sitting there, or he doesn't want to continue sitting there, so you part ways. 100 baht would be fine, that is in addition to the drink you've bought him (which he might have hardly touched, but that's not the point). A quick short visit like you have planned likely means you'll spend nearly all your time in touristy areas. The bars and massage parlours in these areas see mostly tourist patrons*. This means there is no working week to affect the pattern of traffic, so whether you go Saturday, Sunday or Monday won't make much difference. *On this note, I'll add that first-time farangs may make the mistake of thinking that the Asian-looking patrons of bars and massage parlours are Thais. While that may be true in some massage parlours, in general the Asians are tourists like you, from other neighbouring countries. Some will outspend the farang by a mile. They are now THAT rich! Best shows? It depends whether you're looking for Magicians pulling rabbits out of hats or nude girls spitting darts from their vaginas. Could you be more specific? By the way, my blog has a Massage explainer and a Bar explainer that throws a little light on the mysteries of the different kinds of gay bars and massage parlours, plus accounts of my experiences at some places. May give you an idea of how things work (or more often than not, how things fall apart ) Take it easy. Enjoy the experience, don't set your hopes on everything turning out perfect. They won't, but they'll be fun eye-openers. Anything to do in the day? Since you'll be there over a weekend, you could visit the Chatuchak bazaar (BTS skytrain, Morchit station) on Saturday and Sunday. Or you could marvel at the consumerism in any one of the countless shopping malls around BTS Siam station. Or even make your way, via BTS Saphan Taksin station, and a boat ride, to Icon Siam on the other side of the river. Well, of course, there's the Grand Palace, the Wat Keo, the Wat Arun.... google these up. They will need taxi or Grab. Along the way there you'll also get to experience another Bangkok attraction to write home about: horrendous traffic jams. Most of the bars on Patpong soi 2 (Hotmale, Lucky Boys,Dream Boys, Fresh, Screw Boys) and the Banana Boys on SIlom soi 4 will have some lean muscle chaps amongst their off-able crew. Ditto with the selection from Jupiter and Moonlight, though maybe a bit pricier -- these two bars think they are classier. Thais, Cambodians, Vietnamese, Lao and Burmese are almost all uncut. In fact, hey, most of the world are uncut Speak English? Keep your hopes low, real low. Consider this, how many farm boys in your country, hustling in the cities, speak Thai? Good luck! You'll be fine.

Thanks, everyone, for sharing and your advice, especially Anddy's tip about getting fresh notes at Superrich. I knew this would be a good community to reach out to for information. BTW, I need to apologise for putting this into the Gay Thailand forum; I've only just (like 2 minutes ago) noticed that there is a Gay Cambodia forum! Doesn't seem to be as active, though.

Thanks. Looks like I need to equip myself with small USD before I arrive, but how to get them when I'm nowhere near the US of A?... hmmm, that's going to take some ingenuity. I'm been surfing the last hour and am reading that even the ATMs in Cambodia issue USD. That wasn't the case ten years ago -- or maybe there were no ATMS then (can't remember).

I was last in Cambodia more than 10 years ago, and I recall that both USD and the Cambodian riel were in circulation. It's been too long and I can't remember how the "system" worked or how I survived it, so I'm asking for updates or advice here, from those (and I think there quite a few) who've made one or more recent trips to the country. Firstly, is it still a dual currency system? Secondly, how does one know which currency to use? I guess the seller will say so, but if something is quoted in USD, can one say "No, I pay in riel"? Would that be a more advantageous rate? Thirdly, if one pays for something with a biggish USD note, does one get change in smaller USD or does change come in the form of little little riels at some arbitrary exchange rate? I don't expect to enter the country with a fistful of one-dollar or five-dollar notes, but I suppose I will need those smaller denominations for daily expenses. So what then happens? Do I get change in smaller USD denominations or do I end up with a satchel of riels by the end of the trip? Thanks in advance for any help.

They have a Facebook page with a number of videos on it. 1. If the quality of the massage shown on the videos is any indication, the skill standard isn't high enough for me. I might still go (correction: I would) to "low-standard" places if the massage is likely to be followed by a good romp, but, 2. There was at least one post on their Facebook page about welcoming women, men and LGBT (as if we're not men!). I think the atmosphere will be one with too much denial.... sort of, trying to be a "respectable" kind of place, so as not to frighten away their straight and female customers. Somewhere on the Facebook page, they said they have female masseuses too. I don't care for half-hearted neither-here-nor-there places.

If at all there is any strategy behind it -- and Thai businesses can often operate with no strategy at all -- I think it's more because their women customers prefer men with some clothes on. In my view, gay men across cultures (very much like straight men) prefer skin. The more exposure the better. One only has to look at advertising targetting men versus advertising targetting women. I wonder if places like Jupiter are going to be non-gay after a few more years, as more and more women flock to these places, and they morph into males-for-rich-females bars.

Interesting you said that. I've noticed that too and feel a similar way. There's a subtle difference in looks, which I cannot quite put my finger on. Sometimes it is because I think they have squarer jaws, squarer faces. Then other times, I tell myself I am just imagining it. When I was last in Cambodia some years ago thinking my beep ratio (meaning how many guys around me I'd have a second look) would be higher than if I was in Thailand, I found that it was no different. Still in the range of maybe 1 in 200 or 1 in 500! In fact, I am halfway through a draft of a ShamelessMack story about a massage boy in Bangkok Massage whom I guessed was Cambodian..... but was not, until.... (well, the story's still being worked on).

Jasper's right. When I saw the show recently, about half the boys had their singlets off. They're the ones with the bulkier upper bodies. Those who are more 'boy next door" types tend to keep their singlets on throughout. My problem was that they walked too fast and most of the time, I couldn't quite see the number tag. And when they were not parading (e.g. at the end of the video) they stood at the deep end of the stage, and since I was seated near the opposite end of the bar, they were too far away -- and once again, couldn't make out their numbers. It was frustrating. I suppose one could sit nearer the stage, but that also meant nearer the speakers!!

My only experiment with a parallel booking was on one occasion when the "other activities" visit allowed me to stay all the way to Sunday, with no meetings scheduled for Saturday. So I booked a room in La Residence for 2 nights (Friday and Saturday), allowing me to have nightly visitors, especially since my fancy official hotel was on the other side of the river. Waking up with boy in arms on Saturday morning, phone was without juice. Then "shit, phone is here but charger is there!". Sleepy boy had to be rushed through breakfast so that I could taxi over there to retrieve said charger. Got back to La Residence by midday to charge up the phone, and as soon as it had a bit of juice, mailbox was updated and one email in particular said, "Please open attachment".... which was the kind of attachment that I couldn't open on the phone. So rushed back to the other side of Chao Phraya again to turn on the laptop to read said email and open said attachment. And that was a day when I had no appointments to worry myself about. I've been wary of parallel bookings ever since, as you can imagine.

MunichCut - I hope you're not expecting the Philippines to be anything like Thailand. I've had short visits to Manila and everything, everything, is a mess including the "gay" scene. Outside the capital, it can be nice, but no scene at all.

Just want to drop a note to say I'm lapping up all the details here while telling myself I must finally make it to Rio. Twice (more than ten years ago) I was supposed to get there. One was cancelled due to a family emergency back in Oz, and the second one was a business visit that somehow didn't materialise for reasons I cannot remember... wait, I think that was Sao Paolo, not Rio. Anyway, am very much interested now and appreciate all the first-hand info that's coming through. Bucknaway (or others who know) -- you've mentioned the "working boys" in the saunas... how does that work? How would you know who's a working boy and who's not... and presumably the service is provided within the sauna itself? Can a working boy be taken out? Is he a freelancer or does the sauna management have a role to play (and fee to be charged)? How is it negotiated if you don't speak Portuguese? Mack

For someone whose main reason for being in Thailand this trip was "other activities" I am nothing short of amazed how much breakfasting, late nights and all sorts of bedwork you managed to put in. Most of my trips to Bangkok are likewise for "other activities", but on average I can only manage to squeeze in some fun time every alternate day. I really envy you. One small question: were you checked into two hotels in parallel? One for "other activities" and the other in the Silom area for "joy activities"? The reason I ask is this: My "other activities" would typically put me in nice bourgeouis hotels often in the Sukhumvit or Chao Phraya areas complete with over-attentive security. Taking someone from a bar would pose logistical problems. I've explored short-time rooms in the Surawong area but they are so tawdry, I just can't bring myself to use them. (Oh, by the way, I can confirm that BBB Inn is now history. Walked past the stretch recently and I think a barbershop may have taken over its lot.) I've sometimes considered a parallel booking in a 2-star or 3-star hotel in the Silom/Surawong area, with the plan being to check in and leave a backpack there with the essentials for entertaining paramours and washing up. Depending on the circumstances of each night, I could sleep in the bourgeois room or at the temporary pied-a-terre. Of course, if I slept at the latter, I'd have to wake up early and taxi back to "proper" locale if an early meeting had been fixed. Vinapu, was that what you were doing? Do others think this idea of maintaining a parallel hotel booking is a crazy idea or a practical one? Has anyone tried something like this? One part of me suspects that such a plan could easily devolve into madcap confusion and running around.

From Bloomberg, September 6, 2019: From quiet beaches in Bali to empty rooms in Hanoi’s hotels, pangs from China’s economic malaise and weakening yuan are being felt across Southeast Asia’s vacation belt. A boom in Chinese outbound travel in recent years that stoked tourism across Southeast Asia is now in reverse gear. The abrupt decline of Chinese travelers is becoming a painful lesson for nations such as Thailand and Indonesia that had become overly dependent on Asia’s top economy. “The slump in Chinese arrivals and tourism spending is being felt throughout the region,” said Kampon Adireksombat, Bangkok-based head of economic and financial market research at Siam Commercial Bank Pcl. “There’s always a concentration risk when relying on one market, and many countries may not be able to find a replacement for growth fast enough.” The slump is expected to continue in 2020 if the trade war continues to weigh down the Chinese economy, he said. Rising incomes over the past decade fueled the wanderlust of middle class Chinese consumers, making them the world’s largest outbound travel market, according to a McKinsey report, with the total number of outbound trips more than doubling from 57 million trips in 2010 to 131 million trips in 2017. “Southeast Asia is usually the first destination for Chinese travelers when they opt for farther destinations,” said the report. McKinsey’s 2017 China Outbound Traveler Survey had shown that the highest number of package trips were booked to Southeast Asia. Mandarin-speaking tours, Chinese eateries and Chinese mobile payment services mushroomed from Danang to Yogyakarta, these travelers thronged to Southeast Asian hotspots, lured by their proximity and familiar cuisines. The pullback now threatens the tourism industry with pockets of overcapacity, after companies and local governments doubled down and poured millions of dollars into expanding resorts, hotels and travel facilities. The decline is already showing up in some hotel operators’ results. Thailand’s Central Plaza Hotel Pcl reported a softening of its hotel business in the second quarter due to decreasing Chinese demand, Ronnachit Mahattanapruet, the company’s senior vice president, said at an investor briefing last month. Occupancy in its Thai properties dropped 7% in the quarter, and the Bangkok-based operator has 2,040 rooms in the pipeline to add to its existing portfolio of 6,678 rooms. ‘Unrealistic Expectations’ The Thai capital is also expecting a new Ritz Carlton by 2023 as part of a $3.9 billion development, while Hilton will manage two hotels due for 2022 opening. On Phuket island, a favorite for beachfront weddings and scuba diving, there will be 18% more hotel rooms by 2024, according to consultancy C9 Hotelworks Ltd. International arrivals in Thailand this year so far have grown only 2%, data from Thai tourism ministry show. “The supply was based on people’s unrealistic expectations,” said C9’S managing director Bill Barnett. In Singapore, casino operators Las Vegas Sands Corp. and Genting Singapore Ltd. announced a $9 billion expansion of their resorts earlier this year after the country’s skyline was beamed across cineplexes as the setting of the Hollywood hit “Crazy Rich Asians.” Marriott International Inc. has 140 hotels in the pipeline across the region, with plans to more than triple its portfolio by 2023 in the Philippines, whose white-sand beaches and turquoise waters are such a draw that the island of Boracay had to close last year for upgrades to its sewage system. Thailand - Tourist arrivals from China have declined in five out of seven months in 2019 Indonesia - Mainland Chinese tourists have dropped for six consecutive months through July this year. Share of Chinese nationals among total foreign arrivals fell from 19% in early 2017 to 13% in July 2019 Vietnam - Visitors from China, Hong Kong dropped 3% in the first seven months of 2019, compared to a 34% surge in the same period last year Singapore - Visitors from China dropped month-on-month in March, May and June. The June decrease in Chinese tourists defied an overall pickup in international visitors * Source: Thailand’s Ministry of Tourism and Sports, Indonesia’s central statistics agency, Vietnam National Administration of Tourism’s website, Khanh Hoa province’s department of tourism website, Singapore Tourism Board. Enamored with the sights made famous in hit movies such as Summer Holiday -- a 2000 Chinese romantic comedy film set on Malaysia’s palm-fringed Redang Island -- Chinese travelers became the biggest group of visitors to the region, adding $403.7 billion to its gross domestic product in 2019. In Thailand and the Philippines, tourism grew to account for over a fifth of their GDP -- twice the global average. Boom Dissipated The boom dissipated in the first half of this year as China’s economy slowed, its yuan weakened to historically low levels, and an ongoing U.S.-China trade war weighed on consumer confidence. The decline is also affecting China’s economy at home, as big-ticket purchases like cars and luxury goods slow. While China’s domestic problems are key, factors in each Southeast Asian country are compounding the decline. The Thai baht has strengthened the most against the yuan this year among emerging-market currencies, making travel more expensive for Chinese tourists. A boat accident last year that killed 47 Chinese tourists off the island of Phuket also damaged confidence. In Bali, the tourism promotion board’s deputy chairman, Ngurah Wijaya, sees the hotspot as a victim of its own success. “Internal problems like traffic jams are among the main causes of the decline of Chinese tourists,” he said, adding that those who are still coming are staying fewer days and spending less. “It also seems like they have started to get bored with Bali.” Chinese ship Bilateral tensions after a Chinese ship surveyed underwater oil-and-gas blocks claimed by Vietnam in July may have contributed to the decline in tourists from China, said Vietnamtourism-Vitours’ deputy general director Le Tan Thanh Tung. To be sure, not every country is facing a sustained decline. Malaysia’s number of Chinese tourists grew 6.2% in the first half of the year to 1.55 million, according to official data. In the Philippines, tourism infrastructure and facilities are relatively under-developed, so it’s not seeing any pull back in hospitality projects, said Richard Laneda, gaming and property analyst at COL Financial Group Inc. Still, the slowdown in tourism weakens another growth pillar for Southeast Asia at a time when exports are taking a knock from the trade war. The International Monetary Fund in its July outlook pared back its forecast for growth in the region’s top five economies to 5% from 5.1% in its April report, signaling a further slowdown. Countries are now trying to diversify their outreach efforts to lure visitors from other nations. Thailand waived visa fees for Indian tourists earlier this year and airline and hotel operators are trying to boost connections between the two countries. Vietnam, where Chinese tourists accounted for a third of 15 million foreign visitors last year, is setting up tourism promotion offices in the U.K. and Australia, while direct flights between India and Vietnam are being planned for October. But in the short to medium term at least, the hole left behind by Chinese travelers seems too large to fill. “Chinese tourists are the largest group of visitors by numbers,” said the Bali Promotion Board’s Wijaya. “Even the rise in holiday makers from other countries cannot compensate for their absence.”

I can't be absolutely sure that it was Toy Boys since it's been years ago, but I think it was that place that once gave me about 300 baht change from a 500-baht bill (drinks were cheaper then) all in 10-baht coins. The hope was that I'd leave most of the coins in the bill folder as tip. However, especially as they went over the top with the coins, I deliberately took my time picking each and every one up, inspected them for genuineness and with great ceremony put them in my coin purse. They didn't get a farthing. Now I make sure I have plenty of small change before I step into these bars. -- http://shamelessmacktwo.travel.blog

Does anyone know of a similar shop with a similarly accessible website in Seoul? I might have to be there in the months ahead.

It will probably vary from one society to the next, but there's a lot in what Vinapu is saying. The example that came to my mind was the use of cannabis. We're beginning to see that a history of cannabis use (like being openly gay) it is hardly a major stigma anymore -- at least in some places. As well, "standing for election" may itself pass into history, and so our concerns about losing votes on account of a history of Chatubating might become moot. Democracy is hardly the norm in most countries today, I daresay it will become an endangered practice (a quaint idea) in decades to come. -- http://shamelessmacktwo.travel.blog/

20 billion baht is closer to USD 650 million, but it still feels wildly optimistic. Compare that figure with Heathrow's Terminal 2's cost -- over GBP 2.3 billion, for a terminal with a capacity of 30 million passengers a year. Sydney's been proposing a Terminal 4 but I can't find any cost estimate. Singapore's 2-year-old Terminal 4 cost over USD1 billion for a facility with a capacity of 17 million. None of these projects involve(d) extra runways, or all the radar and signalling equipment runways need, or extra hangars -- stuff which will be required for an entirely new airport such as Nakhon Pathom. Bangkok Post (https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/1715903/third-bangkok-airport-proposed ) is saying that the Nakhon Pathom airport is planned for 25 million passengers a year -- somewhere between Singapore's Terminal 4 and Heathrow's Terminal 2. The same Bangkok Post story has something else that should dispel any illusions. It says: "A revised plan to build a 42-billion-baht second terminal was recently shelved as authorities said it deviated too much from the original master plan. Discussions are under way on a new approach." See the 42 billion baht figure for a just a terminal? More importantly, see the word "shelved"? Welcome to Thailand. http://shamelessmacktwo.travel.blog/