10 hours ago, stevenkesslar said:

  He thought what defines conservatives is that they debate things.  And if you disagree, you disagree.

The conservatives I debate with , they usually start with name calling ending in  prerogatives, like Moses did and going way off track from where the original subject started.

That's been most of my experience. They double down on something they are wrong with and Democrats seems to accept it when hit with an actual fact, at least in my case and say, "that's true"....

3 hours ago, floridarob said:

The conservatives I debate with , they usually start with name calling ending in  prerogatives, like Moses did and going way off track from where the original subject started.

That's been most of my experience. They double down on something they are wrong with and Democrats seems to accept it when hit with an actual fact, at least in my case and say, "that's true"....

Sad, but true.

I could write a book about this.  But I'll do the greatest hits.   My Dad was a Reaganite conservative.  We really enjoyed talking about politics, for the most part.  Even though I'm a lifelong liberal.  One of the lines I used with one of my nieces recently, who is about as conservative as my Dad, is that while we disagreed about many things we shared the same values.  Which were his values, of course, which I learned from him.  

My Dad and I both happened to adore Democratic Senator Bill Proxmire from Wisconsin.  My Dad never met him, but loved his populist Golden Fleece Awards poking fun at stupid and wasteful government projects.  I met Prox repeatedly and worked with his staff on the Senate Banking Committee.  Because he was the father of the Community Reinvestment Act, our main national anti-redlining law.  My Dad was the one who taught me the value of owning a home.  Proxmire was the one who got a controversial law passed that has made it easier for Blacks to get mortgages to buy homes.

I won't go on.  You get the picture.  Most of my life I spent lots of time in the US Capitol, the Oregon State Legislature, or various City Halls.  And it wasn't like rocket science to get along, find common ground, and cut deals with the conservatives you disagreed with.  I blame this on Trump.  He is playing divide and conquer to win.  So far it has only really worked once, in 2016.  Hopefully Republicans learn decisively in 2024 that's it's just a bad way to play the game. 

But @Latbear4blk is absolutely correct that Trump is more the symptom than the cause.  I was fine with CNN exposing what Trump's base is really like.  You couldn't miss the ugliness.  To me, it was horrifying. 

I've mentioned a few times that one of my brothers, who is a McCain conservative I 'd say, voted for Trump in 2016.  He told me if he voted in 2020 solely based on the economy, he would have voted for Trump again. In 2020 he called me almost proud to inform me that he voted for Biden, because he decided Trump was a "megalomaniac."  He lives in a rural area.  He told me he told one of his conservative neighbors he voted for Biden.  He said the neighbor said, "Get the hell off my lawn."

I do think this may be Biden's secret weapon, including in 2024.  And the flip side of the age issue.  He actually believes what he says about respecting your opponents, and compromise.  I think moderate people get that about him, and like it. 

So right now, I suspect when you put the politics mostly aside, Biden and McConnell and McCarthy agree they are all on Team USA.  And we can't have a default.  And we need to do something about the debt.  Trump is the one saying on CNN, "Why not default?"  I'm actually confident, or at least hopeful, that a majority of Americans will prefer Biden against Trump again, old and sometimes wise as he is, because of things like this.

10 hours ago, stevenkesslar said:

Trump is the one saying on CNN, "Why not default?"

Becasue he's done it personally in his life so many times, he thinks it's the same for a country, to just walk away from debt.

23 hours ago, reader said:

Well, if we follow your logic then Russians should choose between a paranoid ex-KGB operative and a paranoid ex-KGB operative. They do have choices in election, don't they?

That's nice. You have nothing to say about paradox situation when US should choose btw Clown and Zombie to which gerontocracy pushed country, and switching discussion to KGB.

Well, I knew - there is nothing right and acceptable in choice one of 2 "worst cases"

2 hours ago, Moses said:

That's nice. You have nothing to say about paradox situation when US should choose btw Clown and Zombie to which gerontocracy pushed country, and switching discussion to KGB.

Well, I knew - there is nothing right and acceptable in choice one of 2 "worst cases"

Sheesh. I do have something to say about paradox.

Irrespective of the very questionable legitimacy of your example, your example describes a dilemma not a paradox.

A paradox might be something like the assertion that all thread post contributions have merit because no post contributions lack merit. Or let’s say you yourself instruct the reader to not pay any attention to you.

You dissed the Russia example, the content of which is actually paradoxical as opposed to a dilemma because a situation with only one possible side is inherently untenable. It was rendered succinctly and beautifully. The writer had everything to say about the American situation because the contrast and polarity track. 

28 minutes ago, Latbear4blk said:

IMO “gerontocracy” is also semantically ambiguous and defies one reductionist meaning but don’t get me started, don’t even get a befuddled aging guy started, let alone someone less befuddled, be they head of state or not, rolling in their grave. 

7 hours ago, Moses said:

You have nothing to say about paradox situation when US should choose btw Clown and Zombie to which gerontocracy pushed country...

I believe you were discussing government based on rule by elders.

Belarus leader Alexander Lukashenko surrounded by senior Russian military officers during last week's Victory Day parade in Moscow. (photo credit: Reuters)