Circus Bar etc. up for sale, and is Gay Soi 4 going soon?

[zombie]

"Circus Soi 4 Silom Bangkok is now available for sale with an asking price of 4 million Thai baht.

This is a rare chance to acquire one of Bangkok’s best-known LGBTQ restaurant, bar and entertainment venues in the heart of Silom Soi 4. The business is fully set up, currently trading, and in profitable operation, with average monthly turnover generally seen between 2.5 million Thai baht and 4 million Thai baht per month and full POS records available for the last five years.

The venue has operated as Circus Soi 4 for more than five years and was previously known for approximately 30 years as Telephone Pub, one of Thailand’s most iconic LGBTQ venues.

The business includes three connected shophouses with restaurant, bar, outdoor balcony, nightly show space, upper-level viewing areas and a private bar/karaoke room on the top floor. The venue operates at an estimated profit margin of over 30%, subject to buyer due diligence, and has a solid client base with a strong social media following.

The current owners are selling due to other projects outside hospitality and are offering the venue at 4 million Thai baht for a fast sale to suitable new operators. The sale is intended as a full takeover of the operating company, business, lease position, brand, equipment, POS history, social media assets and operational setup, subject to due diligence and legal transfer.

Serious buyers should contact Cameron McKean at cameron@howtopay.com or +66 95 504 1237 by phone, WhatsApp or LINE to arrange a confidential discussion."

 

Above posted via Facebook on 28 May.

 

-There are also stories circulating that by the end of this year developers will take over Soi 4 and that the bars there could move to "Soi Twilight". This may be unsubstantiated though the popular German restaurant inside Soi 4 {opposite Banana Bar} is relocating to Pattaya.

 

Incorrect gossip or does anyone know what really is happening?

 

[Olddaddy]

Well , how long is the lease agreement?⚖️

I guess they can't move you if there is a lease agreement?

Is this Circus that bar opp  the Balcony pub? 🍻 

It has many bad reviews 

Yes I have been there , had good-looking coyote boys dancing 

One Google review said the owners "Wayne " passed away recently and sold it to some new bloke who allegedly has led it slide in customer service, another Google review said the security was "homophobic" 

I guess a very experienced operator could buy it , I imagine the rent would be high though 

Due diligence my dear fellow .....that's what's needed 

Due diligence 📖📚📚📚

 

[zombie]

Yes Circus bar opposite Balcony. No idea re leases.

[Olddaddy]

Going to be hard work too , long hours 🕝, daytime arranging rostered ,shows ,pay ,staff 

Nighttime talking to customers,supervising etc 🕝🕝

[PeterRS]

6 hours ago, zombie said:

Incorrect gossip or does anyone know what really is happening?

The original offer only mentions "lease position". Almost certainly the only people who know what is happening re leases in that soi is the family at the end that owns it.

[Keithambrose]

Contact details look pretty odd, "howtopay.com", which appears to be a platform.

[macaroni21]

A few things about that cited Facebook post in the OP struck me: average monthly turnover of 2.5 to 4 million baht, with "estimated profit margin of over 30%". Firstly, why estimated? Shouldn't there be a precise figure from last audited accounts? Anyway, taking it at face value, the profit -- and this is another issue: what exactly do they mean by "profit margin"? -- would be about one million baht per month. Something tells me "profit margin" may be "gross profit" or "gross margin", to use more specific terminology. This would be earnings before operating costs.

Suppose instead the sellers mean an EBITDA of 30%, yet the asking price is only 4 million baht, giving a sort of P/E ratio of 0.33 which is very low indeed. However, this offer may be because they really, really, need a "fast sale". Either the current owners' "other projects outside hospitality" are desperately in need of cash injection or the bar is facing a huge problem in the months ahead and the present owners do not want to be around for that.

If the latter, it would be consistent with rumours of lease termination or non-renewal in the very near future. The cost of having to find a new location and outfitting it, with no assurance that customers will stay loyal after a move, may be the very prospect the current owners wish to avoid.

 

[macaroni21]

I would add that successful bars tend to have gross profits at about the 60 - 70% level. They would also have net profits at about the 10 - 15% level. Which was why the term "profit margin" and the figure of 30% seemed so odd.

The mention of moving to Soi Twilight was another odd thing, although @zombie spoke of it as rumours. There is no more Soi Twilight to move to; hasn't been for 6 or 7 years.

[Patanawet]

14 hours ago, Olddaddy said:

Well , how long is the lease agreement?⚖️

I guess they can't move you if there is a lease agreement?

Is this Circus that bar opp  the Balcony pub? 🍻 

It has many bad reviews 

Yes I have been there , had good-looking coyote boys dancing 

One Google review said the owners "Wayne " passed away recently and sold it to some new bloke who allegedly has led it slide in customer service, another Google review said the security was "homophobic" 

I guess a very experienced operator could buy it , I imagine the rent would be high though 

Due diligence my dear fellow .....that's what's needed 

Due diligence 📖📚📚📚

 

Why do you post utter tosh?

[Patanawet]

14 hours ago, zombie said:

Yes Circus bar opposite Balcony. No idea re leases.

ALL leases in the soi are annual.

[Patanawet]

16 hours ago, zombie said:

 

-There are also stories circulating that by the end of this year developers will take over Soi 4 and that the bars there could move to "Soi Twilight". This may be unsubstantiated though the popular German restaurant inside Soi 4 {opposite Banana Bar} is relocating to Pattaya.

 

Incorrect gossip or does anyone know what really is happening?

 

These rumours appear regularly over the 25 years I've lived and worked locally.
All premises are on one year renewable leases and always have been.

[zombie]

More details here:

Rare Opportunity to Acquire Circus Soi 4, One of Bangkok’s Best-Known LGBTQ Hospitality Venues -- Your Ultimate Guide | PrideThailand 

 

Lease details are given including rent and "key money".

And the seller says:

"A fast sale is preferred, and the asking price has been set at 4 million Thai baht for serious buyers who are ready to move quickly."

 

[PeterRS]

I can recall when Circus in its original guise as Telephone Bar opened. It was a fabulous bar with great staff and a great gimmick - the phones. Many customers used those phones to try and make introductions to guys they might otherwise have been too timid to approach. I met one of the barmen in London after he had moved to work in a Thai restaurant there a few years after opening and then in another Bangkok restaurant when he returned home. Each time he not only remembered me, he remembered my name. I got the impression the bar began to go downhill after its early decades. 

[Ruthrieston]

I really enjoyed the old Telephone Bar, those old fashioned telephones reminded me of my younger days. I never even had the courage to try phoning a cute young Thai gentleman seated at another table though, sadly. 

[PeterRS]

4 minutes ago, Ruthrieston said:

I never even had the courage to try phoning a cute young Thai gentleman seated at another table though, sadly. 

What a shame! I met several lovely guys using those phones, even though I sometimes had a concern that after they saw me they'd just put the phone down. 🤪

[macaroni21]

2 hours ago, zombie said:

More details here:

Rare Opportunity to Acquire Circus Soi 4, One of Bangkok’s Best-Known LGBTQ Hospitality Venues -- Your Ultimate Guide | PrideThailand 

 

Thanks, @zombie There's useful additional information there. Firstly,

Quote

 

The current rent is 12,700 Thai baht per shophouse per month. As the venue covers three connected shophouses, the current total base rent is approximately 38,100 Thai baht per month, subject to confirmation in the lease documents.

Leases in the street are renewed yearly with the property owner. The company connected with this location was formed more than 20 years ago and has renewed its lease each year without issue. The annual key money payable to renew the lease is 350,000 Thai baht per shophouse per year, resulting in a new yearly lease being renewed for the company each year.

 

That means the rent is (12 x 38,100) + (3 x 350,000) annually. That is 1,507,200 baht per year. It does sound low probably an anchor-tenant rate.

Quote

Historical price reference: the same venue was previously sold for more than 14 million Thai baht, compared with the current asking price of 4 million Thai baht for a fast sale, subject to buyer verification.

Not sure when that previous sale occurred. If it was when Telephone Pub was rebranded as Circus, then perhaps 6 - 7 years ago? Still, 4 million baht offered today is a very far cry from 14 million baht, and definitely raises some critical questions.

 

[macaroni21]

Came across this AI search mention of a New York bar by chance: "The Boiler Room (East Village): Located at 86 E 4th St, this laid-back, long-standing neighborhood gay bar was famous for having rotary-style telephones and private switchboards installed at the tables. It allowed patrons to "call" across the room to flirt or buy drinks for one another."

Does anyone know of it?

[PeterRS]

12 minutes ago, macaroni21 said:

Thanks, @zombie There's useful additional information there. Firstly,

That means the rent is (12 x 38,100) + (3 x 350,000) annually. That is 1,507,200 baht per year. It does sound low probably an anchor-tenant rate.

Not sure when that previous sale occurred. If it was when Telephone Pub was rebranded as Circus, then perhaps 6 - 7 years ago? Still, 4 million baht offered today is a very far cry from 14 million baht, and definitely raises some critical questions.

 

I just read that long post which I think @zombie will have picked up from Sawtdee.com. I was also concerned about some of the financial issues raised in @macaroni21's post above. I believe Circus took over 5 years ago. For the purchase price of premises to drop from Bt. 14 million to Bt. 4 million in 5 years surely tells potential customers a lot of what they ought to know. Mind you, to be fair the Circus years coincided with covid and so understandably there will have been a major drop in customers during that time. Competition in the soi has also increased, but when Telephone was sold there were almost as many bars and other venues in the soi. However, a drop of Bt. 10 million in the purchase price surely indicates there is more to these figures that needs to be investigated.  

 

 

[bkkmfj2648]

48 minutes ago, macaroni21 said:

It allowed patrons to "call" across the room to flirt or buy drinks for one another."

I knew of 2 bars like this in Rome, Italy in the early years of 2000.

• "XL: Mi piaci, ti chiamo" - this was a discreet gay bar near the Pantheon in Rome where they had physical old style rotary phones on the bar tables and you could call someone over at a nearby table to chat.  The only thing was that there was 1 phone per table and if the wrong person would answer you had to kindly ask the person to hand the "cornetto" handset to the person that you were interested in talking with.  Unfortunately, the person who would usually answer the phone was usually the more extroverted person at the table and then he would torture you with a million questions trying to ascertain from which table you were calling from - to screen your call - truly annoying.  When you finally made contact with the person that you were interested with you could have a nice conversation but everyone at the same table would be participating in the call.    https://www.gay.it/xl-mi-piaci-ti-chiamo

 

• The other bar in Rome that had a similar theme was called, "Edoardo II" on vicolo Margana.  For the life of me, I cannot remember the name of this dedicated theme night, perhaps, biglietteria or bigliettino ?  Anyway, at each table were pieces of paper, like a post it note, and you would write your seduction/introduction note and give it to the sexy waiter to deliver to table X - each table had its own number and you would discreetly tell the waiter which person at the designated table that you were interested in.  When the message was delivered by the water he would point you out so that the reader of your message knew who you were.  I found this event more fun as an icebreaker than the above mentioned rotary telephone bar - because nobody could monopolize the rotary phone using this paper based methodology.  It was truly a lot of fun and I went to "Edoardo II" on many occasions and I was able to meet many Italian guys as a consequence.  Our very own @TotallyOz makes reference to this bar/restaurant in his 2013 post:

 

Do any bars like this still exist in Thailand?