Riobard

'Riobard out ' for 4 weeks remaining here ... maybe back in the deep-freeze in Feb between ski days I will feel moved to summarize my winter here in Brasil, but y'all know I will responsibly read the latest here first and $$ obsession you know rubs me the wrong way. How about an ice bucket challenge for the forum in January? That is, put money themes on ice? No discussion of any utility exhanges with working guys unless in the topic title or a new topic's poster greenlights such discussion. Hahahahah, what am i thinking?! Anyway, wasted 'nuff time here today. One of my top 3 BFE faves is scheduled for this evening. Ate lago!

No photos too post, though I do have many pics of working guys for my private collection and their privacy collectively, so I take it you agree money would be the tiresome default "go to" over which MOST members contributing to this series resort to tirelessly ... too tirelessly. Anyway, 28 days of followup here in BRZ have pretty much eclipsed my caipirinha-hazed memories of the birthday.

This question was also covered recently in a previous post. That post comibined with the new answers here is perhaps more informative overall. I myself have found it helpful to pull up more complete info by using the forum search fields as an adjunct to putting forward an inquiry. Re Floripa you won't be swamped.

By the time I got to Pope Frank's day 7 I was so fed up with the typically obsessional and inane money/gift riffing that I threw in the towel as was smothered by a wet blanket. The topic got off to a great start. Nothing new is being said about the currencies, even the more thoughtful insightful contributions have been covered ad infinitum. I for one can live without these interminable intermissions. An interest in Curitiba and Francis' fun (though rudely interrupted) presentation style may impel me to circle back. But I feel it is more important to protest having my enjoyment fucked over than to continue reading. It is like being at a 4 ring circus where the 4th ring is expendable and needs to be carpet bombed or placed stand alone once and for all. Guys, please please please shut the fuck up and allow a good post to thrive. I will give it a shot again next month. Maybe there will be some good unblocked information flow. In the meantime, I have posted about Belo Hor based on an earlier commitment. My months in Rio are not about to reviewed here because , frankly, I think there is a partial collective Tourette's-like (involuntary?) verbal diarrhea slinging about money, rates, gifts, blah blah blah. And no more of my topics are going to be highjacked by this insanity. So WTF choice is there? I lack the forbearance of the scene in The Square that those of you who catch it will grasp. I admire your papal patience, Francis.

I was in Belo Horizonte Tues Dec 12 to Sat Dec 16. The city is not very interesting. Pampulha's lake shoreline (a jaunt up to the St Francis Assisi church ... closed) is completely littered with trash. The art gallery there was closed. The surrounding hills of BH are verdant and red soiled; day trips to Inhotim art park and Ouro Preto were splendid. Grindr was a wash. Stayed Royal Centre Express by Sauna Olimpo. I was not convinced it would be easy to bring guys in, despite others' assertions to the contrary. I would suggest elevator at the street entrance (the multilane avenue) one below where parking lives, as can bypass the reception. I did not try myself. Olimpo: nice venue, but sparse on hot guys. Tues, Wed, Thurs I would not have tricked even for free. Maybe a dozen or so, but no real lookers. Friday saw a lot more working guys, similarly not at all attractive compared to Rio, SP, Salvador. More like Fortaleza (and my personal poor albeit brief experience PA). But as the sayings go, sometimes a pearl can be found if you see a unicorn and search up its arse and rifle thru the oysters there, and on Friday one of the most stunning looking guys I have ever seen and done in BRZ (hell, in my lifetime, anywhere) was present and available. He redeemed the trip sexually and person-wise aesthetically, but I am a little pissed that he is there and not interested in travel, and that our encounter was at wrap-up, because I may have to return just for him and the place itself IMHO is really not worth visiting outside of this obsession. Note I do not respond to inquiries about financial costs. If you must know, go yourself, or read endless argumentative related posts here in this forum. What I am agreeable to sharing is that I obviously barely grazed the sex budget coffers. Overall, if your tastes run to muscular-build model-look fellows and you want a few options of these types, I suggest taking a pass on this city. Subjectively, the aforementioned guy was a 9.5, but many 8s and 9s can be had at 117 or 202 in Rio. Though I must say there are a lot of head-turners in public if not Grindr and Olimpo.

I have some stories to share about last night, but first the topic of money must be addressed. Who would like to open the discussion?

Hahahaha ... some of you caught on to there being no clear point in my attempts to contribute to the payment topic. Could anybody really sum up and knit together the many, often disparate, pieces of thought put forward here? I could give a rat's ass about anyone's opinion on this subject because I don't need to have an opinion of my own about this subject. I think this makes me the most sane or insane person in the thread. That is how nutty it is. I must admit, though, there is an obsessionality about it and we we will see it played out in interminable groundhog day style. I find myself drawn to the posts like a moth to flame. You can almost time to the minute when money will inevitably come up. Once introduced into a thread it becomes like a fast-spreading weed choking out the topic's purpose. It can never be shut down because too many posters need to have the last word, and too much attention span is required. I hope mine is not the final word that shuts it down. Who could tolerate such omnipotence? I find the whole thing incredibly amusing as a kind of collective character trait, ideas defying meaningful integration while colliding off each other. Then me unwittingly putting myself out there as a whipping boy, offering the one opportunity for unification among those polarized in their futile attempts to give readers a true roadmap for the topic of money. Interestingly, I think this topic should never be shelved because it cannot be put to rest. It is immortal and beloved. I think we should just resign ourselves to living with it, stockholm syndrome style. I get a kick out of it, while kicking myself for it.

I think I only very very partly understand, as my hand periodically moves up to my noggin to scratch, as if it has a mind of its own. So we are advised to pay no heed to what the prostitutes think of us, as we are simply unidimensional cash flow sources. Yet we are to be wary of these brainiacs' perceptions of us as sucker-punch-bags regarding fees, so in that one small point-of-pride arena we are to make an exception. And I am to care what a handful of local club-goers think of me, WHY? This small gaggle of potentially embittered locals can potentially make or break my travel experience here? I am to differentially accommodate the local customers by paying what they pay while not accommodating the hopes of prostitutes for better profits? My Convoluted Reasoning & Anti-intellectual Pomposity (CRAP) meter dial is flippin' off the charts. I am fine with paying what the trend is, but I just won't swallow a flimsy rationale, thank you very much.

Ok, then. Kkkkk. One zero-sum game console play per port.

Tartego, can I suggest one thing? STOP ASKING THE PRICE! Avoid punctuating any sentence about cost with a question mark. You tell the guy the price early in the exchange and, before he can respond, hightail it out of his space and make like you are moving on to tell the next guy what the price you pay is. No fiagling, no negotiating, no offer/counteroffer, etc. Avoid setting yourself up for a dynamic of coming down in price. A depreciation in a utility always feels psychologically worse than an equal appreciation. The guy is then always put in the position of getting less than he might have. If he accepts your offer, that is to say I mean if he accepts your bottom-line, without pouty-frowny-face, the dynamic is more about hope, hope that he will receive more than your price following the service. Hope is more potently incentivizing than any arbitrary amount of money. That said, do not enter into a discussion about tip prior to the encounter. Let the hope/ambiguity dynamic drive his service. Being in PA, you might consider this strategy as experimental, trying on for size, and the roster of guys does not likely intersect with Rio. That's all ... R out.

I don't perceive any actual disclaimer here, but just to add, since wages as well as local providers and customers were brought into the conversation: factoring in purchase power parity, gringo customers paying "local" rates are essentially pocketing 60-75% discounts relative to local customers. After all, the average wage is an equalizer among Brazilians if not between Brazilians and outsiders. These de facto discounts are, I think, a pretty pretty pretty good deal and good thing going for visitors or expats receiving origin pay. Purchase power parity also impacts on the cost of goods and services and on what any single expense is subjectively worth. If you decide you will pay on a par with what locals put out, you may spend considerably less than what you might be prepared to spend in a different context. Of course this will also depend on the value you place on money itself. I think that many additional variables other than being at price war with providers and romance war with oneself come into play in measuring the meaning of cash.

I was having lunch in Candelaria today and dropped in NMM close to 17:00 to have a look-see poke-around with the attendant and to compare the after with the before. It is a disaster, far worse than I imagined the change, though admittedly I had never seen the 18 TO address before dark in the cold light of day. The metal spiral staircase up to the 3rd level bank of cabins is I believe the one that was rarely formerly used. I cannot envision anyone the least bit portly getting up there, though they'd have sweated off a few during a programa. If you are caught dead in this club (I won't be) there'd likely have been a fire. Gotta say, though, the operators have some balls to keep it going in its current form. One can understand not putting much effort into it if casing new locations.

Thems two probably had to struggle to dig themselves out of the wall-to-wall shag carpet that characterized Pnt202 last night. A madhouse! Mixed feelings about it. But certainly some high points. Hmmm, let me try to give an example of the mayhem. Having pushed my way through to reception to try to make change from a 100 (fugetabbudit, was not goIng to happen, the guy ended up with sizeable tip), the staff looked at my key and started to check my account out. I had to explain to them that I usually do not wander around north Copacabana in a towel and flipflops and that I had not finished depositing my share of the profit margins into Junior's pocket, who by the way told me his Partée was expected to be THE highlight of the sauna social season. St Nicholas? St ReDICKulous!

I suspect the rivalry among the sauna clubs may not be as great as some of us might think, or perhaps it is healthy competition. The rivalry related to determining, and vying for, the most superior set of objective criteria about when and what is best seems to be a potentially fiercer and contentious one, about which I don't see much point.

The clue would be the extended complicated massage menu card downstairs at Pnt202 that includes tantrica. If the masseur is wearing all white, a happy ending is typically not within your (his) grasp. The beachgoers flocking to the rainbow flag could be My Little Pony fans.

Hahahahaha. The Tao of Tomcal somehow works!

Pnt 202 is open Tues. This can be determined by: attending (I have and do), google (it indicates open today terca 5th), or FB where marquees and post-show images confirm it.

I have not had Bernardo at 117 give me a pro massage, but Wellington who covers Wed and Fri there is very decent and has helped my lower back spasms. You pay the house 70 for 30 mins, 100 for 60 mins. The one thing I find about it, though, is that the hall outside is like an echo chamber with the guys yammering at full volume throttle. The massage room is Zen-like enough, but be prepared for loud talking. Somewhere basement level south zone would be more appropriate. Still, the price unbeatable. Of course, regarding the guys, it tends to undo Wellington's benefits if minutes later you end up a human pretzel getting forcefully pounded I realize that this part of the thread is not NMM specific, but wanted to give a shout out about my Welly to add to pauleiro's point (not Point).

If I find the right local who has his own vehicle and is up for it, I will def consider next SoHem winter. I heve extended one feeler.

I have been here for a short enough time that I would find it difficult to even begin to describe the challenging stunning bitch that is this city, but a long enough time to be of the view that your well intentioned précis was overgeneralized. I think I would leave it to the likes of Jane Jacobs, Richard Florida, etc. It would be interesting to know what you 'took in' outside of the corridors of "pau", though. Just a soupçon for a little balance. Really, nobody here wants so much detail as to crowd out the nonsparing details of your X-rated experiences Again, you have 60 minutes to log in and edit a post for corrections, you will see the edit prompt during that time ... there is an optional field to say you edited it (I choose not to) and a field, I believe mandatory, to explain in a word or two the edit reason, spelling, clarification etc. If you backspace the entire text I believe it will nullify that one post.

Kkkkkk. I live here for big chunks of Northern Hemisphere winters. My descriptive notes, for Rio as a city, would be appreciably different from yours posted here. I would stick to the 2.5 sauna clubs we know unless you are curious to see how the 'other side' lives.

I like that you know and stand by your philosophy and preference in this regard.

Sorry I cannot help with excursion tips, but I wonder: how are you identiying Grindr lads for hire? I am in highly populated areas in Brazil but cannot sort them out. Are you audaciously, skillfully reaching out and casting the net, texting your openness to both hire and non-hire species, or are they flocking to your profile? Yes, I did not find PA very interesting either. After some epic fail visits to Mezzaninu, I finally did score with a GdeP who met my type-preference. But the weather was nice and a half-day on-off tourist double-deck bus to the art gallery s/w area on river was pleasant. Good luck with your adventures!