United States citizens will need a visa to visit Europe starting in 2021.

[mvan1]

12 hours ago, BoyToyForXL said:

And now the reference to a religion.
You are not very far from Godwin...
Such haughtiness and disdain...

Knowledge, knowledge, knowledge...
My job is directly related to travel industry and especially the processing of passengers flows including safety, security and immigration.
ETIAS is not a visa, period.
And it is not because you say it that will be the reality.

We will see in two years who was right or wrong.
In the meantime I will not argue with you anymore as I don't want to bother other members.
I love you too.

 

[paborn]

On 3/10/2019 at 4:21 PM, BoyToyForXL said:

Of course it's a fake news.

Do  you really know what is a VISA ?
A visa may requires a lot of time and money to establish, ie : 160 USD and a few days/weeks for a tourist US visa.
ETIAS will cost 7 EUR for 3 years !

Why frighten people ?
Here it's only a travel authorization like US ESTA or canadian AVE or australian eVisitor.
What's the problem ?

Why now?
It has been adopted since september 2018.
https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2018/09/05/european-travel-information-and-authorisation-system-etias-council-adopts-regulation/

And as usual : a travel authorization does not guarantee an entrance acceptation.

I retired from an American company that is Fortune 50 and globally known. Yet at one meeting the president of my division did not show up because at that time the US required a visa for French citizens and he was French - this was some time ago. But understand information is gold and SolasSole was altering not frightening. To me it is more scary to show up at the airport and be denied boarding. My leader actually made it to Teterboro private airport in New Jersey on one of our jets and was turned back!

I'm thinking off a return to Vienna in another year and truly appreciate this. 

[paborn]

On 3/14/2019 at 9:23 AM, BoyToyForXL said:

And now the reference to a religion.
You are not very far from Godwin...
Such haughtiness and disdain...

Knowledge, knowledge, knowledge...
My job is directly related to travel industry and especially the processing of passengers flows including safety, security and immigration.
ETIAS is not a visa, period.
And it is not because you say it that will be the reality.

We will see in two years who was right or wrong.
In the meantime I will not argue with you anymore as I don't want to bother other members.
I love you too.

Honestly, have you forgotten to take your medications? This is so absurd it is the only possible explanation. I know I'm being rude but this is off the wall.

[Riobard]

For Canadian readers, the visa waiver application will require a "biometric" passport. If you have a 10-year passport that was issued prior to July 1, 2013 and expires later than December 2020, you will likely have to replace it, earlier than renewal time, with the proper version  for travel commencing 2021. 

[Riobard]

On 3/14/2019 at 9:23 AM, BoyToyForXL said:

And now the reference to a religion.
You are not very far from Godwin...
Such haughtiness and disdain ...

I think I grasp this ... 

One poster (gratuitously?) described him as muezzin-like. 

He is comparing that comment to (approaching) Godwin's Law: As an online discussion continues, the probability of a reference or comparison to Hitler or Nazis approaches 1. In this case, an Islam reference he thought did not fit the narrative. 

Not unhinged, just assuming comprehension.

[mvan1]

1 hour ago, Riobard said:

One poster (gratuitously?) described him as muezzin-like. 

He is comparing that comment to (approaching) Godwin's Law: As an online discussion continues, the probability of a reference or comparison to Hitler or Nazis approaches 1. In this case, an Islam reference he thought did not fit the narrative. 

Not unhinged, just assuming comprehension.

The poster went off on a long, intransigent narrative criticising the definition of the word "visa."   -

His writings were tantamount to a town crier with his one-way interpretation of the simple word - visa.  Thus, I referred to him as a muezzin-like town crier.   Anyone, except for that poster, would know that I was not bringing religion into the discussion.

However, the poster responded to my muezzin comment by saying my response was "approaching Godwin's Law" which we all know has to do with Hitler.  His comment was absurd and is commensurate of someone deeply disturbed or misguided. 

I have never read any thread or post on this forum that compared a forum users post with Hitler or even approaching anything to do with Hitler.  

The poster, as was noted previously by an earlier poster, appeared to be off his meds, so to speak.  

There was and is no need to compare a dispute over the definition of a visa - with Hitler. 

My, oh, my!

[Riobard]

I believe the Godwin reference was used simply as an example of the ways a thread can quickly degenerate in the context of disagreement. That he did not choose the exact comparison according to another's standards, or otherwise put forward a different view, does not point to mental instability. 

I thought he was sufficiently on point. 

Anyway, now perhaps we have Mvan's Law: As a contentious online discussion continues, the probability of a Bavarian cuckoo clock gif emergence approaches 1.

Don't deposit your eggs in our nests, spinning the narrative to defend your point, and expect us all to incubate them. 

Neither the cuckoo clock nor muezzin is much of a burn, though, as they are simply temporal alerts. 

[mvan1]

15 minutes ago, Riobard said:

I believe the Godwin reference was used simply as an example of the ways a thread can quickly degenerate in the context of disagreement. That he did not choose the exact comparison according to another's standards, or otherwise put forward a different view, does not point to mental instability. 

I thought he was sufficiently on point. 

Anyway, now perhaps we have Mvan's Law: As a contentious online discussion continues, the probability of a Bavarian cuckoo clock gif emergence approaches 1.

Don't deposit your eggs in our nests, spinning the narrative to defend your point, and expect us all to incubate them. 

Neither the cuckoo clock nor muezzin is much of a burn, though, as they are simply temporal alerts. 

Inserting a reference to Hitler in a dispute over the definition of the word "visa" is clearly bizarre.    

For you to defend such behavior (inserting Hitler into the discussion) is equally bizarre.  

You should head straight to your local pharmacy.  It is clear from your post that you, too, are off your meds. 

If you are traveling away from home, rush to the nearest emergency room for treatment.  

 

[Riobard]

At the risk of disturbing the delicate mental processes of rigid, overly literal thinkers, one might consider one's passport as another distinction without a difference, in basic functional terms. 

I am ancient enough to recall not needing it for some international travel. 

The main differences are needing it to return to Canada and my Queen explicitly requesting the safe passage abroad of a much younger queen. 

[Riobard]

One ETIAS requirement that does not make sense is identifying and commiting to a specific member state initial entry point.

Since returning home is essentially a 'reset' for subsequent re-entry to Europe, one could make multiple consecutive entries, from outside Schengen, into many different member states as first point. 

I do not know why the first visit within the three-year authorization should be different. It would seem that the jumping off point is obtaining the authorization. First entry point specificity might make sense for tracking each new visit. Of course, it would be burdensome to apply anew for every deviation from the initial visit first entry point. 

Perhaps it is a means test, assessing that the person, on initial visit, can identify travel plans with accommodations and financial capability, prove it has been thought out, etc. Then possibly more relaxed assessment for repeat visits. I don't know.

Apparently, each country does have its own specific daily means of subsistence standards, but it would be onerous to assess this for each member state entry within a visit. 

The website is rather poorly designed, with each section essentially repeating the same thing. 

Edited July 1, 2019 by Riobard

[Riobard]

Oh, I just read that the ETIAS application will arbitrarily be registered within one specific member state for each three-year authorization. There is apparently no centralized integrated registration across the member states. That would explain the requirement to identify first entry. I would guess that the fees are thus specifically streamed in a balanced way among the states rather than chopping them up from one central point of distribution.

Edited July 1, 2019 by Riobard

[Cany10011]

Whatever it is called, it probably won’t be a big hurdle for most forum members to obtain and it’s good for 3 years. So it pretty much seems inconsequential especially so many visitors need to jump through bigger hurdles to visit the US (i.e., tourist visa, which are often more timely and difficult to obtain). PS: i really wish it would be easier for some polish guys to visit (have chatted a view on PR, but most cannot come). 

Edited July 1, 2019 by Cany10011

[mvan1]

15 minutes ago, Cany10011 said:

. PS: i really wish it would be easier for some polish guys to visit (have chatted a view on PR, but most cannot come). 

Hi, you commented on Polish citizens not being able to visit the U.S.

Here is a link to National Public Radio's take of the matter with an interesting history of why (or why no one know why) the Poles were left out of the visa waiver program.  

https://www.npr.org/2015/09/05/437873853/left-out-of-visa-waiver-program-polish-visitors-ask-why-not-us

[Cany10011]

9 hours ago, mvan1 said:

Hi, you commented on Polish citizens not being able to visit the U.S.

Here is a link to National Public Radio's take of the matter with an interesting history of why (or why no one know why) the Poles were left out of the visa waiver program.  

https://www.npr.org/2015/09/05/437873853/left-out-of-visa-waiver-program-polish-visitors-ask-why-not-us

Wow.. interesting. Did not know that poles had the highest refusal for travel visas because of overstays. I guess they blend in well. 

Edited July 1, 2019 by Cany10011

[Riobard]

Canadians are the worst overstay offenders in the USA volume wise, about 1% of Canadian visitors there, or close to 100,000 annually. 

Poles can visit Canada under our simple Travel Authorization. Perhaps they are crowding us out. The US is snubbing them unnecessarily. 

[BoyToyForXL]

On 6/30/2019 at 3:31 AM, paborn said:

Honestly, have you forgotten to take your medications? This is so absurd it is the only possible explanation. I know I'm being rude but this is off the wall.

English is not my natural born language, I really don't know what you mean and why you are so rude, seriously.

My only purpose on this thread was to fight again false information : ETIAS is NOT a visa and only this.

ETIAS is the same as ESTA for USA.
Is ESTA a visa ?
Please read the answer of the official CBP website.
https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/application.html?execution=e2s1#

I give you some help and quote the first lines.
ESTA is not a visa. It does not meet the legal requirements to serve in lieu of a U.S. visa when a visa is required.

Further you can read :
WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN ESTA AND A VISA?
An approved travel authorization is not a visa.
It does not meet the legal or regulatory requirements to serve in lieu of a United States visa when a visa is required under United States law. Individuals who possess a valid visa will still be able to travel to the United States on that visa for the purpose for which it was issued.
Individuals traveling on valid visas are not required to apply for a travel authorization.

Why is it so hard to understand ???

ETIAS will be usefull to intelligence agencies in order to proceed to a kind of pre-check.

If they detect a problem they warn the passenger and ask more details.
And if there is a big issue they decline so the traveller already knows he should not come to EU.
Exactly the same as ESTA for US or AVE for Canada or ETA for New Zealand, ...

Furthermore in 2020 non-EU nationals will have to give fingerprints in order to enter UE, both visa required and visa exempt travellers.
https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/sites/homeaffairs/files/what-we-do/policies/securing-eu-borders/fact-sheets/docs/factsheet_-_entryexit_system_en.pdf

[SolaceSoul]

1 hour ago, BoyToyForXL said:

ETIAS will be usefull to intelligence agencies in order to proceed to a kind of pre-check.

 If they detect a problem they warn the passenger and ask more details.
And if there is a big issue they decline so the traveller already knows he should not come to EU.
Exactly the same as ESTA for US or AVE for Canada or ETA for New Zealand, ...

Furthermore in 2020 non-EU nationals will have to give fingerprints in order to enter UE, both visa required and visa exempt travellers.

FYI:

This is exactly the intent and purpose of a tourist visa in the USA.

So, as I mentioned above, it’s a distinction without a difference.

[Riobard]

Fingerprints recorded on entry in EES system as early as 6 months from now ...

ETIAS is comparatively a cakewalk. 

NIGHTMARE! Imagine the queue wait times while exhausted from a long, often sleepless overnight, flight. 

Anyone here had the misfortune of fingerprint system with a residential building, gym, etc? I have for both. Typically putting tips on a glass surface for a scan. Consistently non-functional for routine subsequent entry thru the turnstile or other mechanism even when it all seems in order at baseline.

And there is often the painfully slow process of accompanying data being typed into the system. Since EES will apparently replace passport, I assume the manual data entry approach because no passport means no quickly scannable data. And why one's passport would be not utilized to triangulate data is simply beyond comprehension. 

And fingers scanned on departure to return home??!! WTF!!?? Airport horror. Europe evidently wants to shut down tourism. 

This is likely something that should be piloted/trialled. As far as I know, it hasn't.

This is just my initial reaction. I am NOT putting myself forward as an expert or as someone who fully grasp these developments.

Edited July 7, 2019 by Riobard
Spacing

[Riobard]

Clarification: maintenance of passport but end of stamping.

Biometrics: Facial recognition plus 4 fingerprints for entry, one or the other for exit.

Simulated tests and prototypes have occurred.

Edited July 7, 2019 by Riobard

[BoyToyForXL]

I linked to a pdf on EES in my previous message.

Of course you will need passport for the biometrics.
I guess EES will replace the stamp on the passport.

And I am pretty sure that the departure scan is made for the overstay calculation.

[Riobard]

9 minutes ago, BoyToyForXL said:

Of course you will need passport for the biometrics.
I guess EES will replace the stamp on the passport.

And I am pretty sure that the departure scan is made for the overstay calculation.

Thanks, different info sources use different wording. Every related or unofficial organization, it seems, feels obliged to summarize the info and crowd the net needlessly. What surprises me is my not being aware of these developments brewing for several years.

Whatever the purpose of departure scan, my main concern is catching the flight back home if there is a glitch. A delay on arrival, unless a transit connection, is endurable at level of inconvenience and less likely financial impositions. 

[Riobard]

Silly me ... overreacting. I do not enter USA by air or boat, and otherwise travel to places without facial and fingerprint biometrics. Therefore, I was unaware that these systems have long been rolled out without many complications. 

[paborn]

5 hours ago, Riobard said:

Fingerprints recorded on entry in EES system as early as 6 months from now ...

ETIAS is comparatively a cakewalk. 

NIGHTMARE! Imagine the queue wait times while exhausted from a long, often sleepless overnight, flight. 

Anyone here had the misfortune of fingerprint system with a residential building, gym, etc? I have for both. Typically putting tips on a glass surface for a scan. Consistently non-functional for routine subsequent entry thru the turnstile or other mechanism even when it all seems in order at baseline.

And there is often the painfully slow process of accompanying data being typed into the system. Since EES will apparently replace passport, I assume the manual data entry approach because no passport means no quickly scannable data. And why one's passport would be not utilized to triangulate data is simply beyond comprehension. 

And fingers scanned on departure to return home??!! WTF!!?? Airport horror. Europe evidently wants to shut down tourism. 

This is likely something that should be piloted/trialled. As far as I know, it hasn't.

This is just my initial reaction. I am NOT putting myself forward as an expert or as someone who fully grasp these developments.

The Dominican Republic started doing this a few years ago and it can be a mess. Last trip the agent spent 5 minutes or so getting it to work - I even had to rub my fingers on my forehead to get some oils to heighten the ridges. 

[Riobard]

46 minutes ago, paborn said:

... and it can be a mess. Last trip the agent spent 5 minutes or so getting it to work - I even had to rub my fingers on my forehead to get some oils to heighten the ridges. 

I've 'been there' and been there, but I don't recall this step prior to entry.

[paborn]

Cute! But, wrong head..... Seriously, sometimes they do the fingerprints and sometimes not - I never ask but suspect that the system is down a lot.