DivineMadman

Bangkok - S/T 1500-2000 with more popular boys from more popular bars often sticking firm at 2,000 or 2,500. Guys from Dreamboys seem pretty adamant at getting the high end of the pay scale (although some exceptions are possible). L/T add 500-1,000 to S/T -- again varies based on bars. Others report that Jupiter & Tawan guys are priced in a league of their own, but doesn't sound like you'll be interested in the guys there. Samebb's advice is spot on. Agree to as many details as possible before leaving the bar.

I guess Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam (can just barely see the Bitexco tower helipad upper left corner).

They will offer up the next guy in rotation but if you want someone else or he doesn't do what you want you can ask to select and they will all line up. Or you can just select from the guys sitting out front before you go in.

To be clear, if you are looking for real Thai massages, then the big M4M sex-oriented massage shops listed (Arena, Prince, VCK) are probably not the right places to go. They specialize in sensual oil/cream or similar massages, followed by agreed upon special services. Training is fairly minimal, so you may get guys who are great, or you may get guys who are just giving you an extended erotic oil caressing -- and there's nothing wrong with that. As for overall quality - The big shops (Arena, Prince - both in the SIlom/Sathorn or VCK over in Ari ) have a big selection and there's some overlap and often high turnover. I really find them hard to tell apart. VCK in my experience in particular is more focussed on the boom-boom, not so much on the massage. VCK has recently been renovated. It's always nice rewarding them for the upkeep. Senso has a smaller selection but maybe more uniform quality (and more expensive). It really depends on the individual masseur and to a certain extent your rapport with him. Real Thai massages are great, but because they involve some pretty delicate twisting, stretching and pressure on the joints, personally I recommend only getting a Thai massage from someplace where the masseurs are well-trained. Prime is a good convenient example in Silom. Other smaller shops where the massage is more likely to be of a very high quality, but the selection will be more limited and you likely will select from photos not a lineup, would be Baantewa, Leo & Spa Bangkok.

For good no-nonsene Thai massage, The Prime is highly regarded. https://www.facebook.com/The-Prime-Massage-111718235573889/ (The map location on Facebook doesn't appear correct, so don't go by that map.)

In Bangkok - it's certainly not a new trend. not seen any connection between whether the guys identify as gay or not. It's their body and their health risk so I certainly respect their decision - and it doesn't affect my tip or whether I go back to them. When done well I've even been known to enjoy it quite a bit with a condom.

It's about five years, but after recent favorable reports by vinapu and ggobkk, I made it back to Senso. (In it's glory days, before The Prince was even around, I think Senso was the Silom area spot for model-good-looks guys (swimmer build, not Arena or Adonis muscled) with perhaps a bit of well-deserved attitude.) I went on a Wednesday evening about 6:30-7:00. There were 4 guys available. I was the only customer there, but when I was getting my massage another came in. There was an interesting mix of guys - one smaller, maybe twinky-er guy, a couple of average good looks one of which had longer hair, which was interesting to see for a change, and one a bit older with some muscles. Very pleasant Mamasan quickly joined me. I wasn't looking for anything special, so I took the first guy in the lineup - early 30's with some muscles. I opted for 1.5 hr massage 1,490 with minimum tip 1,500, so it's at the high end as far as price is concerned. Went up to a large "VIP" room. It had not been aired out in a while, so it truly stank, but after a few minutes the a/c did it's job and got normal. Very large bed/mattress on the floor. porn playing on a dvd player but I didn't have the time or inclination to watch it. overall facilities pretty nice, but not luxe. Shower alone. Massage was good and professional. Special praise for having the massage oil warmed over a candle. (Pet peeve is guys sprinkling cold massage oil.) Natural flow into the special services. I had made it clear all I really wanted as a very good, not rushed BJ, which I got. With a condom - which is fine. The guy knew that because I was wearing a condom he could, let's say, be a bit "rougher" than he might be without a condom, all to great effect. Just some confirmation bias of my overall view that experience is a good thing... We wound up pretty much at the 1.5 hr. mark. Showered together. When I left there were two more guys in the lineup, and one guy sprawled across one of the sofas sound asleep. I couldn't tell if he was working there or not. All in all very nice experience. It's super convenient to Sala Daeng. Worth the 500 +/- more than the other places?? For me probably not, because selection is rather limited compared with Arena/Prince/VCK. But no regrets.

Yes there are rules. They are discussed occasionally - such as this. It's an opportunity to be reminded of them. You refer to a Vessey post. The rules are actually discussed quite a bit in that post. I think it starts around post #24 and is discussed again later. So yes there are rules. No I did not raise the issue in that post. It was already being raised better than I ever could have. So it's not only your posts where this issue arises, and it's not only by me. Speaking only for myself, whether I raise an objection or point something out depends on general levels of crankiness, whether someone else is already making the point, is it egregious, is it so crazy it merits correction, how busy am I, and 100 other reasons. For me - and this is just my opinion - taking photos of guys in their off -- err, private -- time and posting them identifying them as working in a go go bar, without their consent, was not appropriate and needed to be corrected. I think it also runs afoul of the board rules, but regardless of the rules, I still think it's inappropriate. Merely posting the pictures of handsome guys at a party/club- no problem. Identifying them as working in a go go bar - problem. And unnecessary.

face pics purporting to identify guys as working in go go bars. . . . consent? . . . board rules?? necessary??

Like so much else, it just depends on you. I've certainly had fun several times in Saphan Kwai. It's not quite the gay destination it was up until a few years ago, but still it's a perfectly ok neighborhood to hang out in with friends. I guess I'm rather easily amused. I enjoy just hanging out. For karaoke I always bring earplugs or I end up wadding paper napkins in my ears. Better than sitting at home watching TV, and as is the case for me with some other places around BKK, an occasional nice break from Soi 4/Soi Twilight. But in my particular case, I only hang out there with local friends, so I pretty much bring my fun with me, or have a quick drink if I'm on a walkabout in that neighborhood. (There's a pad thai shop I like there.)

That group sway/hug line dance has been a feature of circuit parties since the start. It makes perfect sense to the people doing it, and might, just possibly, be induced - or enhanced - by taking ecstasy (or similar).

Not at the regular spots. You could ask at Spa Bangkok or Prime or even Ruen Nuad (on Soi Convent). They might have someone who knows how or is willing to experiment. I wouldn't get my hopes up.

Sunday night is gay night. The club is an interesting space - lots of exposed brick. It's not a big cavernous club, but an underground night club. For gay night it's a very crowded upscale gay bar. No go go dancers. A healthy mix of expats, tourists and upper & middle class Thais. Pretty much all ages, but obviously mostly mid 30s because it's mostly locals. Not cruisy. Pangina Heels runs the drag show. She's American. forget the names of her colleagues. Usual mix of lip sync and other maybe a little edgy performances, with some interactive bits like name the song and singer and win a shot or a condom or things like that. There can be a line to get in depending on when you get there, just because the club can only hold so many people, so later on you have to wait until people leave to free up space. I am pretty sure they let people in in order of arrival, not a "door" like some NYC clubs. It can't be that exclusive if I can get in without a problem. I think it's about 300 a person, but that gets you your first drink, which looked to be tanqueray or beefeaters or similar top shelf. Overall fun friendly vibe. I would say dress code is smart casual. I have noise issues so I carry ear plugs to take a break from the noise. They help. I believe smoking is allowed, but isn't particularly smoky. Definitely a nice break from Soi 4/Soi Twilight or DJ Station/G.O.D, and for me much more comfortable than the big clubs like Fake Club or Celebrity.

This was mentioned over on gaybutton - always a great source of info, esp. about pattaya. http://gaybuttonthai.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8306 to sum up - the Mirror published an article about Pattaya as sex capitol of the world, the Dear General found out about it and the junta has now ordered a cleanup of the prostitution scene. If it lasts, this would no doubt be part of an attempted re-branding of Pattaya as a family-friendly resort destination - which Las Vegas did with some success many years ago. (I particularly like the bit about the Dear General telling the local press not to report on (or repeat) the Mirror article because, after all, it isn't true. So don't report on the untrue problem that we need to clean up. Alternative facts are everywhere....) In the short-term, apparently people should expect an uptick in police action and bars being on their best behavior.

You were sorely missed at Maggie Choo's, which was packed and to my surprise had a lot of very tall guys - over 6'). As you know the guy I was with is more local average-to-short, so hard for him to see much. Maggie Choo's gay night is very loud. There was a lot of overlap with the drag show at Stranger Bar the previous Thursday night (same performers), so that's a fun alternative we should keep in mind your next visit. But at Maggie Choo's you do get top-shelf drinks.

it appears that admin is someone with line id kuupop you could try messaging him.

From DMK to Ratchadamri was recently about 350. UberBlack probably extra money well-spent after an hour at immigration and then facing another hour just waiting for a meter taxi. The wait for taxis at DMK seems particularly long, especially compared with Swampy.

All harrowing experiences. Christian's advice is always good. One possible solution for the solo traveler is - don't. Don't go solo. Come to Bangkok first, spend some time and find a VN guy who's willing to go there with you as companion/guide. That way you have someone to hold your hand as you try to cross the streets in HCM and Hanoi. (Of course, not an option if you're not open to VN guys at all.) For those who do go solo, research online ahead of time to get the name of reputable local travel companies and the one(s) to avoid like the plague. All those little travel shops abound and I would never book through one, personally. And I don't use the little shops here in Bangkok either, but that's just me. (I think Hanh?? has nightmare stories.) When I went I stayed at nice uniformly well-reviewed hotels, some big chain Starwood hotels, mostly boutiques, and relied on them to make most local arrangements. Never had any problems and if there were any problems, my first line of complaint would be to the hotel. I'm so used to motorbike rental horror stories from Samui that I would never rent a motorbike from anyone other than my hotel for the local excursions. Running everything through my pre-cleared hotel probably is more expensive, plus there's a tip for the concierge, but it's Vietnam, not that much more expensive. A prolific travel blogger I recall wrote that he would never go back to Vietnam. So for some the issues are big ones. I think his example was he absolutely furious at getting charged extra by the food lady at the bus stop in the middle of nowhere. I understand that can bother some people. All too frequently there are reports in New York of New York cab drivers telling unsuspecting tourists that, for example, the cab fare is per person (even though there are sign all over the place saying this is not the case). It happens everywhere. I've travelled solo fairly extensively in India, among other places, and I think I have the reaction there that some people have towards Vietnam - it just starts driving me crazy that everyone is single-mindedly focused on extracting as much money from me as possible. But it doesn't keep me from going back or, if there ever were a cute-enough guy in BKK, from offing him, I suppose. One other thought, the cool season in Hanoi is COLD.

From what I've seen when walking by samebb holding court in Hot Male 2 there's usually lots of alcohol flowing and lots of fun and flirting. And lots of alcohol flowing. Did I mention that already?

open Line on your phone and select add friends on then select QR Code, then hold cameraphone up to scan the code on the website. I'm pretty sure they take care of it from there. You might get added immediately or you might get a message saying there isa limit of 200 people per Line group, in which just wait and the managers of TMB will get around to inviting you to join one of the many group that have been set up so far. Personally, I tend not to look at the endless and endlessly repeating TMB group posts, which include some gorgeous but geographically inconvenient guys. Instead I have individually become "friends" (yippee) with the shops I care about, and they either send their own regular updates or post updates that I'll check out on their home pages or my timeline.

As far as Christianpfc's experiences - as he describes it it looks like only one was a money boy. Based on his description it appears that one was a money boy possibly from Fresh Boys five years ago, and they didn't agree to price before hand, or maybe they did and the boy asked for more, but Christianpfc didn't like the way the price discussion went afterwards. The other, as reported by Christitanpfc, is a non-offable boy, so per se not a moneyboy. This I believe refers to some young (but legal) guy(s) who worked - and perhaps still do work - at Scorpion Bar who are simply not offable, and there are others I believe who will go off but are up-front about not doing anything, and I think their prices are supposedly high. I don't know. Much as it may be frustrating for some for the bar to use near-jail bait guys to lure in customers, not sure why it taints all VN guys. I understand that both stories are frustrating in their own ways, but really now all VN guys are bad?? Also, seems that both situations might possibly have been less frustrating with adequate communication - and communication is two-way. Stepping back I'll repeat I've never noticed a difference between guys from one country or another (of the SE Asian countries we're discussing), and I and many other people have found Viietnam a great place to travel. Some members may have had bad experiences, that's unfortunate, but before others give up on the opportunity to visit Vietnam I urge them to look to other sources - even straight! - with very positive reports on travel in Vietnam, in the same way most of us wouldn't let one or two bad reviews keep us from a good hotel or restaurant.

It's of course ok that that is your opinion, but given that the thread already included sidebars on "feelings" and the narrative truth of these "feelings," they were already being discussed so I simply added an observation. I don't think even the author would say only fawning admiration is appropriate. People here regularly comment on whether paying this amount was right, or doing this was right, or whether this conduct was right or wrong. I'm surprised that it's ok to talk about the price of a guide but not how to treat another person. As to the "life is messy" argument - ok to say it, but of course that doesn't justify anything. And justification, of course, isn't the point. It's simply getting out front an important aspect of the story - how the local guys are and should be treated (we are outside the situation of a s/t off, after all). If that's not a part of the story, then the local guys just become travel accessories, and I don't think anyone really thinks that is or should be the case here.

But with one "boyfriend," you report that you are honest and open about your activities and I think you even mentioned that he knows about your posts on this Board. With the other "boyfriend" (BurBoy) you write that you are not so forthright, and that you have not told him about your partner back home and you even write that you've been not entirely honest with him so to arrange butterflying opportunities in this current trip report. I find these disparities in treatment rather profound, and tossing around "one boyfriend here -- one boyfriend there" as if they're treated with the same -- pick a word -- "honesty?" "care?" "affection?" -- doesn't seem right to me. And, it's the developing world boyfriend that your not honest with, perhaps even more troubling as there is an out-of-the-gate issue of economic disparity, and most likely a difference in education and possibly life experiances. It raises what I think is a good question for many of us, and with which I guess many of us struggle: How honest and genuine can affection be when it's based on some core aspects of dishonesty. I know I struggle with it on the giving and receiving side. It starts moving from true heartfelt affection and care to something less. When someone - Trump or me or anyone - tries to control the potentially relevant facts or put forth alternative (which, in my case, include being told by boys how handsome I am, among other whoppers), it starts veering towards manipulation and creating situations for our benefit and because, well, that sort of power is cool. Also, just to state the obvious, the paragraph from your post quoted above does not mention BurBoy's feelings, impact on him when the truth comes out, blah blah. I have no doubt that you do care about his feelings, etc., but remember, it's "you do most certainly care...but just not enough [to be honest] because ...." (At least in the story you are narrating so far.) Kudos for writing as a narrator warts-and-all. (Updike?) And perhaps perhaps by the time the narrative gets caught up with reality we will all find out that you've come clean with BurBoy and he never had so much as a moment of anguish. But where we are in the story so far I find, among many wonderful aspects of the story, this bit, not so wonderful. But this is just my opinion. I now return the comments to the posts to the previous unmitigated adulation.

+1 (But I would suggest stopped feeding the trolls, as has been said before....)

I've not noticed any performance differences among any of the nationalities regularly available in BKK (Thai, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam or Myanmar).