macaroni21

I can't speak for the hetero side of Pattaya, but "hazy" is too kind for the gay side. A new bar called Classic has taken over the former Cupidol premises, and stocked itself with about 15 fem twinks. Not a single customer inside. The mamasan could barely speak four sentencces of English. S/he was unable to understand a word of what I said, and to everything I tried to say (as simply as possible), the response was "What number you like?" I was out of there in ten minutes having performed my charitiable act for the month. Meanwhile at X-Boys, the off fee has gone up to 800 baht. I thought I had misheard the first time, so I asked a second mamasan and sure enough, she typed "800" on her phone to show me (the music was too loud for speech). At least I made a point to find out - not that I had my eye on any of the boys, all too scrawny and tattooed for my taste. The poor guy to my right later had an argument with the manager over the off fee when he was surprised by the amount being added to his tab. He then said sorry to the boy who had put on his streetclothes, and left the bar alone. You call that "hazy" or "suicidal"?

I found this site: https://friendlyhotelsguide.com/guest-friendly-hotels-bangkok-thailand/ Someone took a lot of trouble to put the joiner question to numerous hotels. Silom area hotels are below and need scrolling. But that's also when one notices defunct hotels like Om Yin Lodge, Tawana, etc. It's always difficult keeping such information lists up to date.

Oops, PeterRS got in the way 😲 when I wrote "it's a very old hotel", I was referring to the Montien.

It's a very old hotel, has been there for over 40 years maybe. I once toyed the possibility but was told that no joiners allowed. Speaking of which, I'd like to ask others who have stayed in some other hotels. Which of these forbid or tax joiners? Amara, 56 Surawong, Le Siam, De Arni. I have read on this forum that Siam Heritage does not allow joiners. I am thinking of amending my map to show hotel symbols in different colours depending on whether they are joiner-friendly. I think that will be useful.

@cuervoanderson you're in luck. I just posted an updated map of the gay ghetto this morning. Many of the hotels mentioned by others are marked. Except Rose Hotel, which I somehow forgot. It'll have to be amended when I get some time. See https://shamelessmacktwo.travel.blog/2023/12/07/map-of-silom-surawong-area-december-2023/

re Patpong Museum, the signs are still there on Soi Patpong 2, but upstairs, on what used to be its front door, it says "Space for rent". RIP. I loved it when I visited.

But it was opposite Foodland for several years, in an upstairs series of rooms. Has it moved downstairs - is that what you mean by "lower"?

@joizy, Re Karada, do you mean this one? https://karadarelax-gm.jimdofree.com/

Hmm, DW must have switched it to private a couple of hours after I posted it. The short text version can be seen here: https://www.dw.com/en/a-shady-side-of-paradise-sex-tourism-in-thailand/a-67057449, and I recognise the still pictures, which were taken from the video. However the text article on DW's website has no link to the video. Maybe they will un-private the video after the last broadcast slot on 4 December.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkPVl2XP9Ws (nothing gay here. all about girl sex). An embarrasingly poor documentary. It shifts back and forth between sex tourism with paedophilia with no clear distinction between the two. The tourists interviewed were also pretty bad at pushing back against the moralistic undertone of the interviewer's questions. It is, at an intellectual level, an underwhelming piece of journalism.

More than just the issue of being able to think for themselves, I have also noticed a lack of general knowledge. One memorable incident was when I was dealing with middle management of a medium-small Thai company. One manager couldn't grasp the concept of time zones, and had no clue it was related to the spherical shape and rotation of our planet.

@floridarob Thank you. This helps.

Does anyone know of any laundry shop within walking distance of Boyztown in Pattaya? I don't mean a laundromat, but the kind of shop where they will take a bag of clothes from me and I get to collect it, washed and folded, 24 hours later.

You may be on to something. I was probably a lot more the visual type when younger, in that there were certain body types and facial features I was drawn to. Perhaps over time, having had great sex (e.g. in saunas) with others who might not be in my visual-acceptability range, and disappointments with those who were outstanding specimens visually, I must have learnt to pay less and less attention to looks and value touch a lot more.

Around 30 years ago, when I was much, much younger, and Pattaya was a gay paradise, my friend and I had nowhere to sit in a bar in Boyztown - was it Throb? too long ago to be sure. We had to share a table with a guy (he was alone) who didn't mind at all. In fact he probably welcomed the company and the opportunity to make conversation. I remember this incident even though it was the last century because it was the first time I had ever met someone with a foot fetish. For the better part of the time in that bar, he went on and on, and my friend and I had little to say in response. Looking back, I should be grateful to him. He opened my then-younger eyes to the fact that all of us have wildly different tastes. Sure, growing up gay, we sort-of know that. Most of my college friends liked pussy, but the very thought of it freaked me out. However, the flip side of that sense of exclusion from the straight fellowship was to seek identity in the gay minority, yet in doing so, I must have somehow assumed that if they're gay like me, their erotic desires must therefore be similar to mine. How wrong I was. I am sure most posters here, in their life journeys, have come to same conclusion, each of us via our individaul learning journeys, though mine was unusual in having been through a baptism of a foot monologue. One of the most fascinating things about this board is that, in the course of members either describing their trip reports or asking questions about what to expect in places they're planning to visit, between the lines in the posts one can sense what their erotic desires are. Having had my eyes opened years ago, I've been watching this space, so to speak, and now may be a good time to throw in some ideas about what I have observed. (I am also nervous about opening this topic because it can get controversial.) Here I am not referring to the appeal of physique, you know, the twink-lovers, hunk-lovers, chubby chasers, etc. There are different ways to look at desire. The first cut I can think of - and the categories are not meant to be exclusive, in fact, there is likely to be a continuum of tastes - goes like this: 1. Those who give more weight to the visual 2. Those who give more weight to the tactile 3. Those looking for a boyfriend experience (the connection of personality) I see Group (1) among the posters whose focus lie in how the boy looks - whether he be twink or twunk or hunk or whatever. This is the market for Moonlight's models, with people ready to pay remium pricing because the guys look a certain way. I also see Group (1) in those posters who've clearly asked for information about satisfying their body worship desires, as well as in those who describe themselves as choosy about a certain "type" of partner. The visual leaves me relatively cold, which also correlates with the fact that I don't have a specific "type" that I am looking for. Instead, I see myself as a Group (2) where the tactile pleasure is more important than the visual.In other words, it doesn't really matter what the sex worker looks like; I want the delirium of hands on body or body pressing body. Members here may have noticed that I write a lot more about massage than about offing gogo boys, for example. Then there are posters here who ask for information about overnights or about going off to an island for a few days with someone (even temporarily) special. I call them Group (3). The boyfriend experience (even if fleeting) is at the centre of desire. Yet another way to slice the pie is like this: 4. Genital focussed sex 5. Warm-body sex Especially on the Latin America forum, many trip reports spotlight either insertive sex or the size of the appendage. There is hardly any description of the body that the cock is joined to. Here and there in the Thailand forum, whenever a boy is mentioned (e.g. because he was advertised on a massage site) the question is quickly Top or Bottom? I may be wrong (since I don't belong to this Group (4) but at least in my imagination, the sex that takes place has a greater emphasis on penetration (one direction or the other). I am Group (5). The size of the appendage has rarely mattered to me (unless it's been disfigured by silicone). I have had great time swith guys (paid and unpaid) who might not have been more than 10 cm (not that I measured). Instead it's the full-body "wrestling" that's been important. As a result, those (usually straight) boys whose idea of servicing a customer is either to stand beside the bed and give a handjob or move into a penetrative position as a matter of course, have always left me utterly frustrated. Are there other categories that others have observed?

If you're referring to the pictures of the boys on their website (http://www.ganymedespa.com/), I would say don't rely on them. They're probably old, and those boys are unlikely to be still working there. Ganymede's facebook has not been updated since October 2022, and since Thai businesses have even more difficulty keeping their websites up to date, so those pictures there may be even older. E.g. the guy with the abs and the stars tattooed on his chest? His pic first appeared on Ganymede's facebook in November 2018. Is he still there? Not that I am recommending Ganymede or not recommending them - I have only visited them once and that was in December 2019 - and a single visit is not really much of a basis for me to judge them by. However, I did a report of the session there: Almost written off, then he sat on me

Whitebird: been there a perhaps 3 times over the past 13 years, not a place I'd make any effort to go again, last time maybe 2018. 1. It's increasingly hetero, female customers come in groups. 2. The show is so-so quality. 3. The boys can be invited to sit with you but conversation quality is very poor, even if their English is OK (mostly not), 4. Boys cannot be booked out. The place operates on a "drinking-bar with hosts to help you drink more" business model.

There seems to be some nastiness in the Thai language forums. I translated a message from Apollo's Line feed - it's one of several - and this is what I saw: "Don't believe anything too much. Follow the massage shop review group. It's a matter of confusion, competition, and lots of bangs. attack each other We also help each other. The store doesn't care. Customers who come to use our services will know everything well. We do not compete with anyone, do not care about anyone, do not interfere with anyone. We live like this and are most comfortable. Providing good care services for our customers as always. Our customers are the most important. Other people, we let them pass." I have no idea what it's all about, but we can read between the lines, I suppose.....

I have data to prove you right, at least with respect to first drink prices. Last year I wrote about this on my blog. There is a graph too. See Bangkok gogo bars: 15 years of price rises

They have a massage wing too (can't recall the name right now) which we hardly have postings about on this board. The last time I heard someone talk about it (pre-covid) I remember he said he felt out of place because while the place was busy, all other customers were Thai. I didn't understand why he felt that way, since the boys would have been there for the money, so what did it matter if he was farang? But your comment above reminded me of that guy's comment. Maybe the absence of postings about this massage place has something to do with the ethnic profile of its customer base?

Hah, it's mid twenties with lower than average humidity in Bangkok.

Yes, like others, I have seen the young Asians in the gogo bars, including some who offed dancers. I have also seen young Asians in massage places. But there are more older Asians in both places, though by "older", I don't mean geriatric. I mean something like 40 - 50. In the days when Hero was at its peak, and that place used to have, at nearly all times, customers in the lounge looking at the glassed room - and Hero was very popular with the Asian crowd - there were opportunities for overhearing their conversations and forming some idea of the demographic profile. Most, I believe would be from non-English-speaking countries, a conclusion I could make from overhearing - therfore unlikely that they are on this board. However, I could hear some of them speaking among themselves in English. So these guys are English-speaking Asians (probably Singapore and Malaysia). They were younger than the average farang, but not that young. That's the constituency I am thinking of when I speak of Asians on this board.

@PeterRS Misunderstanding alert! I don't imagine the Asian participants in this forum to be young. In my mind, I picture them as folks mostly over 40, with sufficient disposable income and an interest in places that trade in sex, like most others here.

Thank you. Makes sense now. They've had three addresses, not two; that was what stumped me.

Trying to figure out its current address. I see two on various media. One is 375/5 Pracha Rat Sai 2 Road. Its on their latest LINE burst. This address seems to be directly beneath Bang Pho station. The other is 365/4 Prachatrat sai 1, stated on its weebly.com website and Instragram. On Oct 15 last year, @reader reported that it was "Located directly below the Bang Pho Station on the Blue line". But then reader reported yesterday that "it has just relocated to new quarters not far from original location." Logically, this seems to mean the address is not any longer under Bang Pho station but instead at 365/4 Pracha Rat Sai 1 which is about 1km north of Bang Pho station. Yet that contradicts what it is saying on its LINE burst. Knowing the poor ability of Thai small businesses to maintain websites, I find it hard to believe that the weebly.com wesbite is current and the LINE information is out of date. @reader, based on your most recent visit, which is the current address?