I think the question should be clear.

This is a private poll, so no one can see how you vote.  Please do not assume the first vote is from me, as that would be too predictable.

I would say from my experience the second time the service is often better, mostly because i will only repeat if there is chemistry, and there is less time needed to work out what our preferences are in bed so exploring new things becomes easier.

That being said, i've had a repeat turn out to be a dud on the second or third encounter a bunch of times. It's always a gamble, you win some you lose some.

I tip well. The 2nd time and beyond is always better.

I remember once in LA, I hired a Japanese lad from Craig's List. He was not good but beautiful. A surfer college guy with great abs. I gave him a nice tip and he asked if we could meet again. I told him he was not really good and it would not happen again. He said, "if you give me once more chance, I promise I'll make you happy."  It was worth a shot, so I did, and he did. Then, I saw him weekly for a year. Great guy but went through so many dud clients he was always leery. I think repeats for me are often better.

8 minutes ago, Michael said:

The 2nd time and beyond is always better.

I

that's my experience as well. I like straitish guys who are in it for money and they seem to understand that improvement on second session leads to many more engagements.

If they start slacking , usually honest warning that it was not overlooked improves their performance.

I must admit that in first 8 trips ( with exception of trip 4 ) I always offed untested specimens and never repeated in classic butterfly style but then I learned my lesson that tested guys are much  more reliable than untested lottery ones 

Most of the guys I dated more than once were good or better the second time and beyond but three exceptions stand out. All were in their early to mid 20's and all came from Twilight or Patpong 2. Took all to eat before and/or after. If they stayed overnight, gave them cab fare.

1. First time great, second and subsequent times OK but not quite as good. He is gay. I might see him again if I ran into him

2. First time good, second time great but subsequent times progressively less satisfying despite increasing bonus. I believe he was bi. Would not see him again.

3. First two times very good but subsequent four times not quite as satisfying. But I got along with him better than either of the two above. He is married. Because the chemistry between us is good I'd see him again.

14 hours ago, vaughn said:

It's always a gamble, you win some you lose some.

+1

Back home, im a creature of habit. I usually stick with few regulars and only venture a diff guy when my regulars not around, with few exception if i saw some hottie suddenly came here. When in thailand, i usually will repeat one or two, while the rest usually a diff guy. I almost never took same guy two night in a row, with clear exception for those who travel with me. Back to my regulars, thailand or back home, i usually gave guys i like a second time even if the first time was not up to expectation, and almost always the second time was better. But there are one or two in the past that is not the case. One guy, both times was terrible, so no repeat after, and another, first time was actually great but second time (after quite a long period) wasnt as good. But in general, i find that guys appreciate repeat customers.

52 minutes ago, spoon said:

One guy, both times was terrible, so no repeat after,

Good that if you liked guy you gave him a second chance . One sample is never enough ( everybody can have a  bad day and we may have bad luck hiring him on that day ).

I said it here many times, my worst ( or actually second worst) and certainly the  best encounters were with the same Tawan guy , two years apart.

But I agree , if 2 times are  bad it's " time to say good bye " as they sing

16 hours ago, vaughn said:

 

It's always a gamble, you win some you lose some.

When I read it first time I thought' he is right". After giving it  a second thought I must say , not always .

There are gems and not even  that rare , who are giving consistent good performance. There are 5 guys I offed 10 times or more and all of them were always doing their best , if some encounters weren't that great , it was me who spoiled these, not guys.

3 hours ago, vinapu said:

When I read it first time I thought' he is right". After giving it  a second thought I must say , not always .

There are gems and not even  that rare , who are giving consistent good performance. There are 5 guys I offed 10 times or more and all of them were always doing their best , if some encounters weren't that great , it was me who spoiled these, not guys.

That's fair, i agree there are times it can be our own expectations that spoil it for ourselves, or our mood at the time etc.

The gamble is really just my outlook towards finding boys and performance. I don't worry too much if there are a few duds, i go into it knowing that there are no gaurentees.

Over the years, I have had a few guys I would off every day during trips to Thailand.  A couple of the guys I saw over several years until they had moved on.  If I find a guy that pushes my buttons, I look no further.  

As far as performance, if the boy's service declines, I just move on.

However, on some vacations to Thailand, I have done the butterfly routine with a new guy nearly every day.  

If I am lucky enough to find someone I like, often after a few days with him - to be sure we're compatible, I'll ask him to travel somewhere with me.  I did this on my last trip in Jan-Feb, taking the boy to Koh Chang for five days.  I like the BFE experience, if I can find it.  (In this case, BFE means Boy Friend Experience, not Bum Fuck Egypt).

 

Unless the first time is good, or at least shows promise, there is no second time. It’s more fun to cast the line again and see what you reel in.

If the first time is good, the second time is likely to be better as the frisson of newness is intact while understanding of each other has improved.

The further the connection continues beyond the second time, the more complex life becomes.

One issue is the extent of the trade-off between the decline in the excitement of exploration, discovery and newness versus the increase in understanding, connectivity and friendship. 

Another issue is the potential for unrealistic expectations to develop on either side.

For me, combining a regular with a little butterflying has been a workable solution to these countervailing forces. Until Bangkok Guy that is, the pleasure of whose company greatly outweighs the decline in frisson.

So far   

In my bar hopping days, I was more of a butterfly. For massage, though, I always preferred the same guy. Soon after Albury opened in the mid 1990s, I noticed a great looking guy -not as well built as some of the boys but with the sweetest face. He gave a great  massage and the afters were as good as I had ever experienced. On regular visits to Bangkok over several yers I always returned to him and he just seemed to get better. He was definitely boyfriend material. Unfortunately I learned he already had an American boyfriend and after a few years he gave up the business and they moved to Chiang Mai.

4 hours ago, daydreamer said:

If I am lucky enough to find someone I like, often after a few days with him - to be sure we're compatible, I'll ask him to travel somewhere with me.  I did this on my last trip in Jan-Feb, taking the boy to Koh Chang for five days.  I like the BFE experience, if I can find it. 

 

4 hours ago, CurtisD said:

The further the connection continues beyond the second time, the more complex life becomes.

One issue is the extent of the trade-off between the decline in the excitement of exploration, discovery and newness versus the increase in understanding, connectivity and friendship. 

I prefer the BFE experience too because I am too lazy to find every night potential partners and because it makes my holiday more interesting traveling with company, Usually there is  a decline of performance in bed and sometimes  feeling I am missing the excitement of exploration finding better boy but I don't mind nice long term company during my trip is more important to me than the sex performance.

I have my regulars, I love my regulars, and, particularly now, I look forward so much to seeing them again.

That said, the best performances come from those of them who I do see again and again, but not on a predictable basis. They know I like them, they know I will treat them well but they also know I am essentially a 'butterfly' and that they have to compete for my time (and money!). That keeps them keen and anxious to please.

Sexually I do less well with my either my long, long-times (effectively holiday live-ins) and almost predictable daily short-times, they can easily get lazy and blaze and stop trying so hard, but I am, at least partially, compensated by their companionship which I often crave as much as the sex itself.

This is a very interesting survey and I am not surprised to see that meetings and offs after the first one usually prove to be better. That has by and large been my experience when I have had boys for multiple nights. The reason I think in my case is that I pay relatively well so from the second  meet the boy will give good service  knowing he will be well rewarded for pandering to my sexual tastes. 
in recent years I have visited Pattaya for multiple short periods whilst about 10 years ago I was able to stay for a couple of months. During those trips I settled after my first week, with one boy rather than “ do the butterfly”,  with him being a live-in boyfriend. Although I did occasionally spice things up with threesomes.
Looking back I believe those periods were the best periods of my adventures in Thailand.

Apologies for being slightly off topic, but i am really interested in the financial arrangement you put in place for long(er) term hook ups. For those BFEs that last a few days or who you invite to travel with you - do you pay them every day? Work out a fee for the trip and pay half up front and half at the end? How do you go about negotiating that - do you get a discount on the off rate if for a longer period of time? 

I've been a little slow in replying to my own poll.

I'd had a couple of worse second meetings.  I don't think money is the factor, since whilst I'm not over generous, I'm tipping well above the minimum in Pattaya.  Besides, every single one of them has been asking to meet again and again.

There was one hot and cute Khmer lad who was ordering me about on the second meeting and not being particularly responsive.   After well over a week of him pestering me for a third meeting, I laid down the conditions for a third meeting.  Starting with him disrobing and receiving a spanking, then everything else defined clearly.

The whole purpose of the spanking was of course to remind him who's boss and this was rather gentle. I think he found it quite funny and the whole meeting seemed to go better.  Anyway, meeting #3 went well, as did meetings 4, 5 and 6.   

I remain a butterfly with an element of rotation.

It has been my experience that the second time is better than the first because the young gent loses any shyness after the first encounter.

Along with that, I wonder if he thinks I'm any better the second time . . .

35 minutes ago, Gaybutton said:

Along with that, I wonder if he thinks I'm any better the second time . . .

I don't think he cares about it at all it is more likely he is thinking if the second time may be better tip for him.

8 hours ago, Milk78 said:

Apologies for being slightly off topic, but i am really interested in the financial arrangement you put in place for long(er) term hook ups. For those BFEs that last a few days or who you invite to travel with you - do you pay them every day? Work out a fee for the trip and pay half up front and half at the end? How do you go about negotiating that - do you get a discount on the off rate if for a longer period of time? 

I don't think there are hard rules for that. All is up to negotiations or one side accepting proposal of other.

I took twice Pattaya different boys to Bangkok and once Bangkok guy to Pattaya. Each case was different. Long term member may recall it from my reports

1. Pattaya boy I offed few times including 4 nights in row asked me to take him to BKK. I was hesitant but he was insisting and I liked him a lot so succumbed to his wish after day or two. We negotiated rules over breakfast and it was   quite a conference. He asked for  daily rate of 1000 and equivalent to what I paid him for long time if we spend night together. Smartly asked me to pay him at end of adventure because he wanted to save it entirely . I liked idea and this what happened.

He offered to sleep on the floor if I bring another boy but I remedied it by renting him cheap room in nearby hotel. I promised that at least 3 nights out of 5 we spend together.

We actually spent 4 including one with another boy I took from Super A ( it was not a good idea to dump boy I liked on him without consulting him first, lesson learned forever).

So I paid 4 long time rates plus 5000 for 5 days we were together plus of course all expenses like food and admission. He even asked for money for lady massage and I gave money to him but doubted he actually took that massage while I was entertained by guy at HERO.

As for off fee his bar was charging 500 but apparently he negotiated it to 400 and insisted that he will pay it himself. I had feeling he pocketed that money as he was freelancer  showing at work at will but that was non issue for me as I'd pay off fee  money anyways.

2. BKK boy I offed  twice LT on that trip already upon learning I'm going to Pattaya for 2 days was insisting I take him with me at cost of paying his off fee and expenses but no tip. He was pretty adamant about that part so I paid 1000 off fee for 2 days at the bar at normal rate of 500 /day. Upon return I gave him 7000 for his troubles but true to his word he did not want to take it and it took some convincing that it's compensation for lost earning potential.

As it  appeared later ,  his generosity had  second underlining and it did not take long before I was asked  for  a substantial 'loan' which I gracefully declined as well as his second try few month later.

3. As last accord of LT in the morning I asked Pattaya boy if he wants to go with me to BKK for 2 days , all expenses  paid plus LT tip for each day , gladly accepted.  Gave him off fee money to be paid later as his bar was closed in the morning. I told him that  during day  he is free of my shackles but nights are mine. He did not ask for anything other than not eating in the same place twice as he wanted to try different foods. I paid his tip on the morning of the last day.

As you see each time it were different arrangements and initiative came from either side.

In order to stay  in the thread's  subject I need to say none of the guys mentioned was slacking on his duties at any moment. I took care to give them time off during day  when I sensed they may need it and was not shy to claim time off for myself if   I wanted / needed it. 

First boy had the best body by far, second one had the best understanding what I like or not, third one had the most entertaining personality. Money well spent

10 hours ago, Milk78 said:

Apologies for being slightly off topic, but i am really interested in the financial arrangement you put in place for long(er) term hook ups. For those BFEs that last a few days or who you invite to travel with you - do you pay them every day? Work out a fee for the trip and pay half up front and half at the end? How do you go about negotiating that - do you get a discount on the off rate if for a longer period of time? 

For long term hook ups including travel, I have always paid the regular daily long time tip.  I make it clear to the boy the amount he'll receive per day when asking him if he wants to travel with me.  I don't negotiate the tip or the off fee.  Nearly always, the boy is eager to go.  Of course I pay all expenses, too.  Often the expenses include airfare and rental cars.  

I also tell the boy he can have free time, but usually they stay close to me every day.  It depends what you have planned.  If you've rented a car, the boy certainly won't want to miss out on driving around in air conditioned comfort, and exploring new areas. 

I used to have a few regular boys I would often see when my home was only a two hour flight from Bangkok.  After a few nights in Bangkok to survey the scene, I would usually take one boy for the BFE for the entire trip.  I have traveled to many areas of the country with different boys.  

The only times I have received a discount on off fees was years ago from Saphan Kwai bars, and a couple times in Chiang Mai.  The discount was always offered by the bar if offing the same boy for a week or more.  Nowadays I don't think a discount is common for multiple-day offs.  The bars are struggling to survive, so I think off fee discounts are more rare today.

As far as how I pay the tip, yes I pay every day unless the boy has asked to receive the money at the end of the trip.  One boy wanted to get his money every two days.  On my most recent trip one year ago, I paid the boy every day, and he took most of the money to an ATM several times during the trip to deposit it to his bank account.

Every baht has been money well spent, and it has made for some beautiful memories of my travels.  I like to try to see at least one part of the country during my vacations.  It's not always a new place, but I like to travel a bit.  One month in Pattaya and Bangkok is a bit too much for me without a side trip thrown in.

Milk78, you may be interested to read my trip report from February 2020 on this forum.  I traveled with a boy from Pattaya.  It's at  gayguides.com/forums/topic/12788-koh-chang

 

I was a butterfly until I met P.....eighteen years ago (oh my God!)....and very rarely indeed re-offed any of my numerous companions. However, in the early days of our relationship with him, the Pattaya scene was often discussed. And more than  a few things I learnt surprised me.

One of them was that  being offed again by a falang was much prized because it raised hopes that an LTR is a possibility. Once a guy had spent a few days with the same falang, those hopes were encouraged. Ultimate success was a relationship that extended beyond the falang's holiday  and became a regular source of income. And I was staggered when, a few years after we met, P went through  the names of his friends at Dreamboys and related how many of them had achieved this ambition.  In fact, the two of us actually met three of them with their falangs in Pattaya by chance. All were in their thirties.

I wasn't in the least bit interested in an LTR until  I met P, preferring the thrill of the chase, the trawling of bars and the final decision as to who would be coming back to the hotel with me. However, from the bar-boy's perspective, while a well-paid encounter with a clean and gentle falang was more than welcome, the ambitious guy was likely to be thinking of the next step. And hoping.

 

 

I agree with daydreamer that whilst having a.longer term relationship it’s good to get away from Bkk or Pattaya for a few days to avoid things getting stale. The boys always like that and sometimes suggest it. With LTR boy I actually visited his family home in Samet Sakhon near Bkk. I was nervous about this but it turned out ok especially when I took 8 family members for a nice meal with lots of beer. They knew all about his work in Pats and it turned out I wasn’t the first farang he had taken there. I also went with that boy and a friend and his boy to Koh Samet for 3 nights at a beach resort. Lots of fun in and out of the water with our boys wearing very sexy speedos we bought for them in Pattaya Central sports store. Lots of stares from other guests of course. A great break indeed from trawling the bars in search of that 5* boy.

I also agree with Londoner regarding the ambition of the boys to have a LTR. Great prestige is gained by showing your farang off to your friends and having him buy them drinks. The ultimate is when he is persuaded to develop a relationship with Western Union whilst back home (I have to plead guilty myself)

The second time, and subsequent times, have often been as good or better for me. Like some who've commented above, I prefer the tried and true over the attractive but untried. With my longterm Thai guy, it took 8 years for the sex to start dimming in excitement -- and then the light went out completely within a year. With others, anything from 2 to a dozen encounters were satisfactory or better. There was one guy I offed at least once a year between 2001 and 2015. Every time I saw him, he was in better shape!