khaolakguy Posted July 10 Posted July 10 1 hour ago, mauRICE said: Why would it be "so alien to privileged western sensibility"? Don't be so obtuse for the sake of scoring your political points. Privileged westerners do not personally have familiarity with crossing borders illegally. We would expect to follow due legal process ourselves and don't personally have experience of crossing borders at non regular crossings. Do you? PeterRS2 and hank75 2 Quote
Keithambrose Posted July 10 Posted July 10 1 hour ago, khaolakguy said: Don't be so obtuse for the sake of scoring your political points. Privileged westerners do not personally have familiarity with crossing borders illegally. We would expect to follow due legal process ourselves and don't personally have experience of crossing borders at non regular crossings. Do you? An unhelpful comment. Enchanted_Elixir, Olddaddy and Ruthrieston 3 Quote
Olddaddy Posted July 10 Posted July 10 55 minutes ago, Keithambrose said: An unhelpful comment. Oh don't be so judgemental! Ruthrieston and floridarob 1 1 Quote
hank75 Posted July 10 Posted July 10 11 hours ago, jimmie50 said: Cam reassures me it will be fine, but I am still anxious and worried for his safety. Please don’t be anxious, these border runs are commonplace and Cambodians returning home are always welcome. In fact by the time of me posting this, Cam must be home by now so I hope he’s checked in and reassured you 5000 baht….the price has increased since my ex guy did his bi-monthly border run! 11 hours ago, jimmie50 said: There will be several others making the journey tonight along with Cam, so perhaps safety in numbers? or more realistically greater profit in having one full car vinapu 1 Quote
Keithambrose Posted July 10 Posted July 10 1 hour ago, Olddaddy said: Oh don't be so judgemental! Unlike you, you mean! Enchanted_Elixir and Ruthrieston 2 Quote
Members daydreamer Posted July 11 Members Posted July 11 5 hours ago, mauRICE said: I don't see the Thai government planning to build a wall anywhere. Thailand is planning to build border walls, announced in March 2026. - From the Bangkok Post: "In the future, the military will add permanent walls and electronic fences equipped with sensors and CCTV cameras for 24-hour surveillance, he added." https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/3218615/thailand-to-start-building-cambodia-border-fences-next-month Ruthrieston 1 Quote
Popular Post jimmie50 Posted July 11 Author Popular Post Posted July 11 Quick update: Cam has arrived home safe and sound. A total of 9 persons made the trip plus driver. They were all packed into a van. Couldn't have been very comfortable. Took a little over six hours to drive as the driver was trying to avoid police check points. They traveled by foot through the forest once they reached the border for about 1km. From there he was able to get a car to take him directly to his home. That ride was approximately two hours. There was a period of time where we could not be in communication as they all had to avoid using their phones. That was the most frustrating part...not knowing exactly where he was or what was happening. I was extremely nervous about him and the others walking through the forest because of the danger of land mines. Current rates are 5000-7000 Baht. Not a bad days work transporting 9 persons to the border at 5000 Baht each. He does that several times each week. The price on Cambodian side has also gone up. Cam ended up paying 1000 Baht for the ride to his home. We did video chat briefly when he first arrived, then he was going to crash. He said he wasn't able to sleep during the trip. Big sigh of relief on my part. Thanks to everyone for their concern and support. Much appreciated. jamiebee, mima_bk, khaolakguy and 13 others 16 Quote
vinapu Posted July 11 Posted July 11 41 minutes ago, jimmie50 said: Current rates are 5000-7000 Baht. Not a bad days work transporting 9 persons to the border at 5000 Baht each. He does that several times each week. likely he must share his loot with other people closing eyes and turning backs at convenient time. And it caught , he may face a lot of troubles so it all must be priced in. 6 hours ago, khaolakguy said: We .... don't personally have experience of crossing borders at non regular crossings. Do you? those who live or travel in Schengen area with Schengen visa area in Europe may experience plenty border crossings at non-regular crossings. Just make sure you have your documents with you jimmie50 1 Quote
PeterRS2 Posted July 11 Posted July 11 9 hours ago, mauRICE said: Why would it be "so alien to privileged western sensibility"? @jimmie50is American and I believe the issue of illegal migrants from Mexico and elsewhere has been one of the hot button issues plaguing American politics for as long as I can remember; unless @jimmie50 has been living under a rock or has a tin heart, he would have surely have heard and have feelings about it. With respect, what has the border situation between Mexico and the USA to do with the border between Thailand and Cambodia, the more so given the massive amount of political time and even more cash spent in the USA in recent years to keep illegal immigrants out? You seem to have forgotten that Cam is Cambodian and was entering his home country. His situation is totally unlike that of an illegal immigrant from Mexico, just as the Thailand/Cambodian border situation bears zero comparison to that on the US/Mexico border. jimmie50 and mima_bk 2 Quote
hank75 Posted July 11 Posted July 11 2 hours ago, vinapu said: those who live or travel in Schengen area with Schengen visa area in Europe may experience plenty border crossings at non-regular crossings. Just make sure you have your documents with you Sorry to be pedantic but I’m assuming @khaolakguy means crossing borders illegally when you’re not supposed to do so. A more apt comparison would be trying to cross the UK border to Schengen countries without the appropriate Schengen visa if required. Since Cambodians are all welcome back home, based on what @jimmie50 has said about avoiding police, this is the Thai police who would likely hassle them if caught trying to cross a restricted border. In fact the passengers are less at risk (since the Thais are probably happy to send them back home) than the driver who is making money off flouting existing rules and as you’ve correctly noted, priced in to the high cost. I remember transport to the Cambodian border from a designated pick up point somewhere central (Makkasan or similar) used to only be 2000. khaolakguy and jimmie50 2 Quote
Popular Post jimmie50 Posted July 11 Author Popular Post Posted July 11 7 hours ago, hank75 said: In fact the passengers are less at risk (since the Thais are probably happy to send them back home) than the driver who is making money off flouting existing rules and as you’ve correctly noted, priced in to the high cost. I remember transport to the Cambodian border from a designated pick up point somewhere central (Makkasan or similar) used to only be 2000. I was able to have a nice, long video chat with Cam this morning Denver time and he talked a little more freely about the trip. I think beforehand he didn't want to share too much information with me as he did not want to worry me. You are correct in that before the border conflict escalated in 2025 and essentially closed, the regular price was 2000. It has increased due to the risk factor. There is little concern for the Cambodians who are returning home once they actually have crossed the border and are in Cambodia. Even if they run into military or local police, there are no problems. In fact, they are usually welcomed home as the Cambodian government has encouraged all of its citizens in Thailand to return to their home country. The problem is on the Thailand side of the border. Police and military want to capture the Cambodians returning home for two reasons according to Cam. First, they want to arrest them so there is an official record that they were in Thailand illegally so if they ever apply for a visa in the future it will automatically be denied. Once arrested and the arrest is officially recorded, they deport them to Cambodia. The second reason is your basic corruption and police wanting to shake down those returning home for as much money as they can...if caught. So, police along their journey are actively looking for Cambodians who have been in Thailand illegally to line their pockets. Cam said that is why they travel by night, take different routes all of the time, and they even changed vehicles several times during the trip. I was curious if he actually knew any of the other people in the group, but they were all strangers to each other. All had been in Thailand legally prior to the conflict and border closing, so could no longer do the visa run and had to resort to this method of travel in order to return home safely. jamiebee, BjornAgain, vinapu and 5 others 8 Quote
mauRICE Posted July 11 Posted July 11 43 minutes ago, jimmie50 said: All had been in Thailand legally prior to the conflict and border closing, so could no longer do the visa run and had to resort to this method of travel in order to return home safely. Glad to hear that Cam has made it home safe. All's well that ends well. I don't quite understand what you meant above. Weren't Cambodians allowed to return home when the war started? Secondly, why would they be allowed to do the border bounce during wartime, a grey practice the Thai government has been trying to discourage all nationalities from doing even during peacetime for purposes of staying in Thailand for extended periods and possibly working without the proper permits? Quote
jimmie50 Posted July 11 Author Posted July 11 3 hours ago, mauRICE said: I don't quite understand what you meant above. Weren't Cambodians allowed to return home when the war started? Secondly, why would they be allowed to do the border bounce during wartime, a grey practice the Thai government has been trying to discourage all nationalities from doing even during peacetime for purposes of staying in Thailand for extended periods and possibly working without the proper permits? To be honest, until meeting Cam I gave little notice to the border conflict other than what appeared in the US news...which is never much. I believe many Cambodians did return at the beginning of the war...even guys working in the bars. This was encouraged by the Cambodian government...I think the line of reasoning given was loyalty to your country. With the border closed, if they decided to return to Thailand for work at some later time, they would need to do so illegally. They would not be able to obtain a visa. If they had a visa, getting it renewed might be the challenge. This is all unfamiliar territory for me and until getting together with Cam it was never on my radar. Definitely a real learning experience on my part. I also ordered some books to read about Cambodian history and culture before I return in September so I am better prepared for those political conversations Cam liked to have over Youtube videos. Back to school at 75! lol. mima_bk, vinapu, BjornAgain and 1 other 4 Quote
jimmie50 Posted July 22 Author Posted July 22 On 6/10/2026 at 4:46 AM, Tomtravel said: One idea for your time in US. Read a few books about Cambodia, they will reveal some insights about the society. Realism is good when you plan to stay there longer and create (join) a family. Both books end with a hope that maybe the young generation could make Cambodia a better place. And indeed its a very youthful country. My young friend complained he has limited access to the older gay guys. Sebastian Strangio Hun Sen's Cambodia (English Edition) Joel Brinkley Cambodia's Curse: The Modern History of a Troubled Land (English Edition) Thank you for the recommendations. I did order the books online via Amazon.com so they were in Denver waiting for me when I returned. I have just finished Cambodia's Curse and it was a truly depressing book. I cannot believe the culture of corruption. I am not naive enough to think that this does not happen other places in the world, but I find it hard to believe it is to the same extent as what takes place in Cambodia. It was also disturbing to me that countries and organizations continued to support the Cambodian government financially year after year knowing how bad the corruption was and how the Cambodian people in general were so ill-treated by their own government. At least for me, I came away after reading this book believing that Hun Sen is no different or better than Pol Pot was...just not to the same extreme. As you said, the book ends with the hope that the younger generation can make a difference. The book does give me some cause for concern about staying in Cambodia long term with Cam and just how safe it might be. floridarob, FunFifties, bkkmfj2648 and 1 other 4 Quote
PeterRS2 Posted July 22 Posted July 22 4 hours ago, jimmie50 said: I came away after reading this book believing that Hun Sen is no different or better than Pol Pot was...just not to the same extreme. I do not know this particular book but I am sure you know that Hun Sen was a mate of Pol Pot and a member of the Khmer Rouge. He fled to Vietnam after he realised that Pol Pot had started going after his own leadership and was afraid he might get caught up in one of the purges. As Human Rights Watch has stated, after he got the Vietnamese to invade Cambodia to put an end to Pol Pot's regime. he then consolidated a near four-decade long authoritarian regime, stifling political dissent and undermining democratic institutions. Many in the west lauded him for ending Pol Pot's madness. But he is certainly no saint! Peace Accords in Paris in 1991 resulted in around 20,000 United Nations forces from a large number of countries arriving in 1992 on a peacekeepiing mission. This basically meant the organisation running the country and preparing for elections in 1993. Most Cambodians were delighted when King Sihanouk returned from his exile in Beijing. Sadly the country's misery was not ending as many of the UN troops also brought with them HIV/AIDS. Vast amounts of money flowed into the country which was then beset by soaring inflation. And in a country which none of their commanders knew, massive corruption flourished among Cambodian officials. According to the BBC, Hun Sen's forces did all they could to disrupt the election through a massive campaign of violence and intimidation. Yet Hun Sen and his party lost that election with 38.23% of the vote against the winning 45.47%. But Hun Sen was always a schemer, he knew how to win and he was not going to give up power at any cost. The UN caved in to his arguments and two Prime Ministers were appointed, Hun Sen being one and the son of Prince Sihanouk being the other. That power sharing lasted until 1997 when Hun Sen managed to get rid of the power sharing principle and took sole control of the country. As reported by the BBC prior to the 2018 election - critics say that this has come at the cost of a shrinking and increasingly repressive democratic space, where corruption, environmental destruction, and violent land grabs have been allowed to flourish unchecked. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-44966916 Re the level of corruption, sad to say Cambodia ranks 141 out of 142 countries worldwide in the World Justice Project Rule of Law. Among lower-middle income countries, Cambodia ranks 38th out of 38. In this regard middle-income countries include Egypt, India, Vietnam, Morocco, Jordan and others (see the final footnote on this site). https://worldjusticeproject.org/sites/default/files/documents/Cambodia_2.pdf Ruthrieston and vinapu 2 Quote
jimmie50 Posted July 22 Author Posted July 22 4 hours ago, PeterRS2 said: As Human Rights Watch has stated, after he got the Vietnamese to invade Cambodia to put an end to Pol Pot's regime. he then consolidated a near four-decade long authoritarian regime, stifling political dissent and undermining democratic institutions. Until reading this book and watching documentaries from various sources with Cam, I really was not familiar with the history of Cambodia. Much of what you stated is included in this book. The level of corruption, environmental destruction and violent land grabs from the local level all the way to the upper echelons is appalling. Even worse than that, to me, is the fact that countries and organizations are well aware of this but continued year after year to support this regime knowing little would change and that most of the money would end up in the pockets of Hun Sen and his cronies...the Cambodian people would never see one cent or receive any benefit from it. The book was a real eye opener for me. I appreciate @Tomtravel recommending it, and would encourage others to read it as well. Unfortunately, it only provides information through 2010, so nothing since then is included. I do not know the current state of affairs or if things have improved at all...but I have my doubts. I plan to begin the other recommended book today by Sebastian Strangio. Quote
vinapu Posted July 22 Posted July 22 1 hour ago, jimmie50 said: The level of corruption, environmental destruction and violent land grabs from the local level all the way to the upper echelons is appalling. Even worse than that, to me, is the fact that countries and organizations are well aware of this but continued year after year to support this regime nothing surprising here. For years our governments in the West were aware about Khmer Rouge atrocities and yet , after they were overthrown by Vietnamese for year they supported so called Democratic Kampuchea government ( i.e. Khmer Rouge's ) as legitimate government and ensured that they keep Cambodia's seat at UN Ruthrieston 1 Quote
Popular Post Keithambrose Posted July 22 Popular Post Posted July 22 5 hours ago, jimmie50 said: Until reading this book and watching documentaries from various sources with Cam, I really was not familiar with the history of Cambodia. Much of what you stated is included in this book. The level of corruption, environmental destruction and violent land grabs from the local level all the way to the upper echelons is appalling. Even worse than that, to me, is the fact that countries and organizations are well aware of this but continued year after year to support this regime knowing little would change and that most of the money would end up in the pockets of Hun Sen and his cronies...the Cambodian people would never see one cent or receive any benefit from it. The book was a real eye opener for me. I appreciate @Tomtravel recommending it, and would encourage others to read it as well. Unfortunately, it only provides information through 2010, so nothing since then is included. I do not know the current state of affairs or if things have improved at all...but I have my doubts. I plan to begin the other recommended book today by Sebastian Strangio. Things have not improved. I help to support a children's home in Siem Reap, and visit once a year. My guide said about 30% of the population are illiterate, and the country is controlled by Hun Sen and his family, together with the Chinese. They care little about the people. The freshwater lake of Tonle Sap, for example, which used to expand, in the rainy season, to be the biggest lake in South East Asia, is slowly degrading, due to Cinese financed dams on the Mekong. 2m people rely on the expansion of the lake for their livelihood, the expansion brought young fish, new soil etc. I was told that the 2m people will, in effect be starved out. In the meantime the Government made personal profits of tens of millions of USD, building a huge, unnecessary, new airport 50 km from Siem Reap. I just read an article, which I cannot index, sorry PeterRS, which said that Cambodia ranked next to last in the worldwide corruption index! There seems some dispute about this, but I would suggest you have a good supply of brown envelopes! Having said that, i always enjoy my visits, the people are charming and helpful. vinapu, PeterRS2, 10tazione and 2 others 5 Quote
Popular Post jimmie50 Posted July 22 Author Popular Post Posted July 22 3 minutes ago, Keithambrose said: I just read an article, which I cannot index, sorry PeterRS, which said that Cambodia ranked next to last in the worldwide corruption index! There seems some dispute about this, but I would suggest you have a good supply of brown envelopes! Having said that, i always enjoy my visits, the people are charming and helpful. The corruption just seems to be part of the culture and is accepted by everyone as 'normal'. Everyone has their hand out. Students must pay bribes to teachers in order to attend and get passing grades (whether they pass or not...another bribe), Principals demand payment from the teachers, local education leaders from the government require payment from the Principals, and so on. The book I just finished did mention Tonie Sap and what is happening there. Same thing for medical practitioners...you want treatment...pay me first. Supposedly the healthcare is to be free for the poor. How do you determine who is poor when a majority of the country would qualify. Very disturbing indeed. I also feel somewhat ashamed and embarrassed that I was not aware of any of this until meeting Cam and wanting to learn more about his country and culture. I guess I, too, have had blinders on. Given this new information, I understand his anger towards the government and desire to change things. At least he is doing what he can to make things better for his family. I know that Cam is able to read and write. He has gone to school...but for how many years and up to what grade I do not know. These are things I want to investigate further with him, but prefer it to be in person...not via text or video chat. At this point, I feel I need to be careful what I put in writing to him via text as I most certainly do not trust the government there. I don't want to put anything in print that could create problems for him and his family. So, we do not discuss politics at all at the moment. All of our discussions were in person while we were together in Bangkok. vinapu, Ruthrieston, khaolakguy and 2 others 5 Quote
vinapu Posted July 22 Posted July 22 59 minutes ago, Keithambrose said: i always enjoy my visits, the people are charming and helpful. +1 Enchanted_Elixir 1 Quote
Marc308 Posted July 23 Posted July 23 I couldn't agree more. In all my visits to Cambodia (including cities in the north, PP, Sihanoukville and other towns in the south, everywhere but the east region bordering Vietnam) I never once had an unpleasant encounter with a Cambodian. Anybody who has visited the Killing Fields gets an idea about what the senior population has been through: Pol Pot and his "reformers" and murders, the American bombardments, the Vietnamese invasion, and Chinese meddling over the past few centuries! Somehow through this all the Cambodia spirit has pushed through. It is truly remarkable how resilient the human spirit can be and how adaptive it can remain under even the most strident forms of corruption. Ruthrieston, bkkmfj2648, jimmie50 and 1 other 4 Quote
PeterRS2 Posted July 23 Posted July 23 14 hours ago, vinapu said: nothing surprising here. For years our governments in the West were aware about Khmer Rouge atrocities and yet , after they were overthrown by Vietnamese for year they supported so called Democratic Kampuchea government ( i.e. Khmer Rouge's ) as legitimate government and ensured that they keep Cambodia's seat at UN Sorry to disagree with the first part of your post. The fact is that very few individuals knew about what was going on in Cambodia after the US troops fled in 1975. A handful or so of individuals like the New York TImes reporter Sydney Shanberg did report on murder on a large scale. The trouble was that no one believed him. The world believed that after the total disaster of the illegal American invasion and even after the realisation that towns were being emptied of civilians, the Khmer Rouge were sending everyone to the countryside only to rebuild the agriculture the Americans had destroyed. Absolutely no one had any clue about the murder of well over a million of their people and the Killing Fields. This only came about after the Vietnam invasion when journalists were allowed back into the country. Even then, there were many who did not believe any regime would resort to such genocide. It is the Cold War that is essentially to blame for allowing the Khmer Rouge to hold on to Cambodia's UN seat until 1993. Many western nations share that blame even after becoming aware of the genocie atrocity. Throughout the Khmer Rouge period, it was backed by China. After the Vietnamese invasion, the rump of the Khmer Rouge party fled to Thailand. Thailand did not expel them as they saw them as a buffer between communist Vietnam. From Thailand it continued its fight with the Vietnamese until 1989. In 1982 it had aigned itself with several non-communist groupings which persuaded many in the west and thus the UN to believe that communism actually played little part in the future Khmer Rouge. Besides, by this time the west and China were making up their differences following Nixon's visit to Mao in 1971. Since historically China has basically hated the Vietnamese and would have nothing to do with what it regarded as Vietnam's Cambodia power grab, it would not recognise the Vietnmese backed government. When I first arrived in Asia in early 1979, China and Vietnam had just completed a border war which resulted in Vietnamese air space being closed. My flight from Bangkok to Hong Kong had to circle around the bottom of Vietnam. Prince Sihanouk had returned to Phnom Penh following the Paris Peace Accords in 1991. He was restored to the throne in 1993. Prior to being condemned to death in a 1970 coup led by the new Prime Minister Lon Nol who, it is well known, had been actively encouraged by American "interests", the Prince was revered almost as a God in Cambodia. His return was assisted by the United Nations acting with a view to a new Constitution being formed with democracy and peace as its backbone. After Hun Sen's party had again lost the 2003 election, Sihanouk tried to mediate with the parties. Ironically, as I imagine most reading this will assume, Sihanouk publicly backed same-sex marriage in 2004. Finally at the end of that year, he abdicated. He died of cancer in Beijing in 2012. In earlier posts I have talked about William Shawcross's superb book Sideshow: Kissinger, Nixon and the Destruction of Cambodia published in 1979 just after the world became aware of the genocide. This is a fascinating radio interview with a Chicago news channel where in May 1979 Shawcross discusses that book. https://studsterkel.wfmt.com/programs/william-shawcross-discusses-his-book-sideshow-kissinger-nixon-and-destruction-cambodia Ruthrieston, vinapu, daydreamer and 1 other 2 2 Quote
khaolakguy Posted July 23 Posted July 23 2 hours ago, PeterRS2 said: The world believed that after the total disaster of the illegal American invasion What invasion? Quote
PeterRS2 Posted July 23 Posted July 23 Cambodia. The secret US B-52 bombing campaign began in 1969 and was folllowed by the equally sercret incursion by ground troops in 1970. They were secret in that Congress had not been informed nor approved them. Nixon and Kissinger knew well as they had authorised it. jimmie50 1 Quote
NIrishGuy Posted July 23 Posted July 23 On 7/11/2026 at 1:26 AM, daydreamer said: Thailand is planning to build border walls, announced in March 2026. And it seems they have actually started that process - as to how big, long or REAL that wall is or will ever be is I guess a whole other question, but PR wise at least they're getting the story out that building of said wall is now 80% complete no less ! My guess it will be like someone else's "wall" where after a lot of talk and bluster only something like 102 miles of NEW wall were every ACTUALLY built in the end ( from 2017 to now) with the other 375 or so miles of wall just being a make over of what was already there. https://www.facebook.com/reel/2506258256481651 vinapu and daydreamer 2 Quote