Ask a former money boy anything

[ggobkk]

Quote about "old soldiers never die, they fade away" was from General Douglas MacArthur the great prima donna of generals who was fired by Truman.  That noted, it is a very appropriate quote.

[Guest FossilGay]

You simply get too old.

 

You obviously haven't been to Boyz Boyz Boyz.

[firecat69]

Too Funny!

[Guest Chicago]

ryanasia.............I recommend the book Bangkok Boy (The story of a stolen childhood) by Chai Pinit.  It is his story of living life in Bangkok and Pattaya as a money boy.  A few years ago, I met Chai Pinit in  Bangkok.  He also "aged out" and retired from the profession.  He has had an interesting storied life that seems similar to yours.  I'd be interested in reading a book about your life experience and your perspective of human interactions, etc. 

[kokopelli]

ryanasia, did anyone want to have you shit on them or vice-versa; as some would say "dirty sex".

[vinapu]

ryanasia, did anyone want to have you shit on them or vice-versa; as some would say "dirty sex".

isn't it thing they call "brown shower"  ?

[DivineMadman]

Ugh.  Different question:  Did you have romantic relationships (boyfriends) outside the business?  Did they know you were an escort?  Do you think it made the relationships easier/harder better/worse?  Lessons you learned for having relationships?  (Sorry if you've covered this before.)

[Guest ryanasia]

isn't it thing they call "brown shower"  ?

Yes I have had guys ask me for human toilet service and things like that. This I was not willing to do. I am not sure what amount of money it would take for me to consider doing such stuff. Although the amount would have been high enough to make it unrealistic to actually happen. 

[Guest ryanasia]

Ugh.  Different question:  Did you have romantic relationships (boyfriends) outside the business?  Did they know you were an escort?  Do you think it made the relationships easier/harder better/worse?  Lessons you learned for having relationships?  (Sorry if you've covered this before.)

 

Yeah I was dating a boy at met in the boy club in Amsterdam. He was mostly just bar tending but sometimes we would work together. We both had a sugar daddy, his was in LA and mine lived  in Amsterdam at the time. Everybody was aware of one another and my boyfriend lived with us off and on. I also visited him and stayed with his guy in LA now and again. It could be a bit of a juggling act at times. We sort of looked alike so if you liked my style you would have been attracted to him as well. So in this sense usually our customers and partners or whatever you want to call them wouldn't mind having us both around. 

 

 

I found it difficult to work with my BF sometimes if it was a date that was purely for sex as a short time threesome. He wasn't as comfortable as I was performing for guys and I felt at times embarrassed that I didn't think his service was always up to par. I guess he got jealous sometimes, but he understood ultimately that this was the only source of income I had to be able to live overseas and much of the time it was putting bread on his table as well as I was making substantially more than he was as a bar tender. He only cherry picked his customers where as I was doing it full time. 

 

So it was sort of an odd set up that we were boyfriends but we also had our older "boyfriends" I guess you could say we were hunting in packs. I am still with the older guy I met and my BF from the boy club moved to the USA recently and lives with the guy from LA now. He just got his green card.

 

Not sure if this post clarified things but essentially he had his customers and benefactors and I had mine and sometimes those worlds very much over lapped which could lead to some issues of jealousy and awkwardness at times. I guess we were simply house boys at times would be an easier way to describe it.

[Guest ryanasia]

ryanasia.............I recommend the book Bangkok Boy (The story of a stolen childhood) by Chai Pinit.  It is his story of living life in Bangkok and Pattaya as a money boy.  A few years ago, I met Chai Pinit in  Bangkok.  He also "aged out" and retired from the profession.  He has had an interesting storied life that seems similar to yours.  I'd be interested in reading a book about your life experience and your perspective of human interactions, etc. 

 

Yeah I have heard about that book. Maybe I will check it out at some point. Just got back from Pattaya and a bit tired after a "busy" weekend but will put together some of my thoughts on retiring and some advice to those who may be in a relationship with a money boy. I think I have a few helpful pointers if you are looking to take the money boy out of the scene. 

[Guest Chicago]

"I think I have a few helpful pointers if you are looking to take the money boy out of the scene"

 

I actually did take a desperate MB out of the scene.  I had the understanding that being a MB was not something one chooses to do for life or a profession...............it is a matter of survival .............. a means of having something to eat or place to sleep.......a way of sending money to family who relies upon you for their existence.  Being a MB is simply a symptom of an underlying problem.  The problem seems to me to be pervasive around the whole world..................a person needs a skill-set which is marketable for others willing to buy the skill.  By definition it seems we are all money boys because we prostitute our skills for the money necessary to survive day-to-day.  In my case, I gave (invested) my former MB a university education and a small noodle shop business. Most of all I gave him dignity ......... and best of all, I gave him the ability to help others.  So now we have a larger noodle shop employing 3 other Thais.  In addition I assisted other Thais with their education..........one is now a University professor Phd in English, another is an engineer/architect and one is a airplane pilot with a prestigious airline out of UAE.

My point is that everyone needs to respect each other.  The majority of us have prostituted ourselves in order to survive in life or provide for our families.

[Guest ryanasia]

I disagree about choosing to do it for a living. I did it for the easy money. I liked the lifestyle over all. I had a normal job on and off for a few years but many of my friends were going out to NYC, SF, Amsterdam and I heard the stories about them. I liked Italian shoes, fine dining, good hotels and travel. I also like sex so for me it wasn't that unnatural to do it. Many guys in Thailand end up in Pattaya because one day their friend came back to the village with a stack of money and the latest iPhone and tells the stories of how it is done. 

 

I was envious of my friends jet setting around and making relatively good money so decided to take it from my early days when I was hustling for survival to the times when I was doing it on a much more professional level. There is no doubt it can be a trying job but there are many boys that do it for purely financial gain. One problem is that many guys can't handle it and fall into drug addiction. Sex work and drug addiction are a particularly volatile combination. 

 

On any given day I could have found a job even using daily labor services and make a days pay or go find a customer. Many guys are doing more than just hustling and use it to get luxuries they can't afford as a student. Whatever type you are muscular, slim, twink or anything in between if you are reasonably good at performing and good looking you should be making more than many people working lower level jobs. 

 

A good money boy will not be living anywhere near the poverty line. If he is there is a problem with how he runs business. It is a business like any other and some will excel while others struggle. You have to learn some basic marketing skills such as establishing your online presence these days. Knowing your demographic, pricing, seasonal variations if you are a traveling salesman and work tourist resorts and good communication skills are some of the skills a guy needs. 

 

So I don't think the generalization that all or even most of the guys in the sex trade are forced into it. In Thailand it seems like many of the money boys are poor and must go to the bars to work. They make well above the minimum wage and i would estimate a boy can on average make 30,000 Baht a month if they wish to. That is more than many professional office workers that have a car payment and family to feed make. 

 

The only reason they are poor for the most part is they have no concept of bank roll management. This is a tool that any self employed person needs to possess or they are highly unlikely to be successful in any enterprise they choose to go into. This lack of management is strikingly more pronounced as other than clothes, and a few items to show a bit of status such as a watch or a nice phone, the product being sold is free to them. There are no real overheads for a money boy. This is a bit different for me as I did long distance traveling. I always had to make sure I kept ticket money.

 

Sometimes the thrill of going somewhere on very little money excited me.  I would pick a random city in Spartacus for known money boy bars and just go. I took pride that I could go anywhere and dig something up out of nothing. Sometimes I suffered the consequences and had to retreat unsuccessfully. I liked the risk and adrenaline of it. Probably at times the same rush a derelict gambler gets from betting high stakes or something similar to it.

 

Everything for me was like an elaborate social experiment. For a period of 6 months I decided to reject money. I made a limit to $50 cash on hand and would give the rest away. This forced me to always keep at it. It meant I had to couch surf (back when that term was a bit different than now) and hustle and make it flow. To some degree I cheated as I began to use cocaine to barter with. I paid my rent in Cocaine and traded it for food in a drug house I lived in. 

 

 

One customer of mine ran out of his usual disposable income and I would still go visit him and have sex occasionally because i had some level of compassion towards him. I told him he can't expect me to do this when I am very busy and stressed out from too many dates but occasionally it was cool. This was also a survival tactic in some ways I suppose. You remain friendly and keep your bases open. This as how you establish a safety net. If you treat people like dirt that works when times are fat but should things ever go bad you will be on your own. 

 

Nobody forced me to do this, although I grew up in the streets I also still had some pretty strong ethics. I was young and excited I really loved my job at times and loved the thrill seeking. I obviously had a bit of an ego and this is also a job that can feed that or crush it on any given day. 

 

I guess my point is a relatively good looking guy that has good personal skills should be a pool boy and not a street walker sucking dick for crack. Unfortunately there are some money boys who can't get to the higher levels of the industry do to their looks, chemical addictions or in some cases mental illness. There is a high percentage proportionately like this in the industry or if you examine the homeless in general. 

 

Believe me i would have rather been wearing Gucci shoes and eating at 5 star restaurants then digging ditches. For me it may have started a bit out of necessity with the small time day to day survival. Later on after I had a job off and on for a few years I put myself back together and headed back into the floating world for what were greener pastures. Europe for me after I learned the ropes was over all very very easy money and I wouldn't have traded my job for any other job in the world at the time. 

 

If you are overly sensitive or can't handle pressure you could get hurt very badly. i saw some boys that looked like they had pretty much given up on life. I guess all I am saying is you don't have to have failed in most other aspects of life to get into the trade. Getting paid to have sex when you are a young horny guy isn't the worst job out there. How good or bad it can be depends on the individual and how savvy they are. One thing that makes this a little different is the severity of the consequences if you aren't good at it. 

 

Many other jobs if you aren't very good at them are still tolerable. If you don't learn to play the game well as a sex worker you will suffer some pretty fucked up dire conditions if you aren't careful. The highs can be great but the lows can be pretty depressing so you must be able to take it all in stride. 

 

I strongly disagree most sex workers are truly forced to do this job. I look at Pattaya on any given day and it seems obvious to me most are there by choice. I understand that families can put pressure for them to go there and do it. However once you leave home you are a man and don't have to do what your family says. i know in Thailand it is a bit different but I left home very early and it was a choice. 

 

Good point about the university education you gave your guy. It is important that if you take the boy away from the only real livelihood he has that you need to be able to give him something like this. In some cases you may ironically even have to help him to prepare to leave you. There has to be a plan B so he can stay with you or leave of his own volition. If such a safety net isn't set up he will quickly find himself an aged money boy with no skills and will become completely dependent on you. 

That would be terrible for any relationship and is the reason alimony exists in the straight world. I have a bit of experience because my partner would travel on contracts that were short periods of time. 6-12 months. So I always went with him and did the visa hop game but we were never anywhere long enough to get a university degree or anything like that. If I do want to leave he has helped me set up a small resort and would give me a lump sum. You have to make sure to give the guy a walking stick if he should want one. That was my advice and you gave a very good example of that in your post.

[Guest Chicago]

ryanasia..........your life experience is one which no university could teach.  If I wanted to take a course about society or humanity I would definitely want you to be the professor.  I was taught that it is better to teach someone to fish rather than give him a fish. In reality the student most times does not have the tools necessary to fish.  So you teach them how to make the tool .......... use his imagination, his intuition, his natural instincts.

 

Based on your writing skills it is apparent that you learned a lot in a short period of life.

 

Your perspective of being a MB by choice is enlightening and understandable ........... it is said that prostitution is the oldest profession ............ as I have previously stated......we are all prostitutes, it simply a matter of the price.......it is simply a matter of admitting it. 

[Guest ryanasia]

I have to say thanks to the people involved in this thread that have helped me try to refine my thoughts a little bit. I am no great writer and my lack of education would become apparent in my run on sentences and awkwardly formatted structures at times. I rush things out at times but it is more important to simply get the raw feelings out and the outline of the larger picture. Fiddily little grammar points and learning how to write stories in the third person narrative could be picked up or done through a decent editor.

 

I am not really over all happy with my writing style but feel that it wouldn't be too hard to improve upon it. Thanks for your kind words but I think that the story itself is possibly more interesting at times than the words that I am using  to color the canvass. 

 

As self absorbed as this thread can be at times what you are seeing is a concerted effort at me trying to hone my skills of storytelling. I usually relate these experiences in person. I am just happy if it provides a little bit of amusement for some of the members and can provide a smile or two in what otherwise could be just another tedious day at work. 

 

If people want me to continue I will and maybe I will add the necessary descriptions and adjectives that could bring the characters in these tales into a life of their own. Right now it is still just a Q&A session but I have some material from this that adds to the work I am trying to do, so I will thank everybody for their input once again. 

 

I also appreciate feedback if it is negative or constructive. 

[Guest ryanasia]

i will add a poem sometimes that seems appropriate to the thread or gives off a feeling. I think other writers do this in the front of books or by chapter so don't think it is out of line. I met an Irish guy in Frankfurt and he introduced me to Yeates. I loved it and can recite this poem word for word until this day. I will try one or two of my original works at some point but for now will leave you with this.

 

COME swish around, my pretty punk,
And keep me dancing still
That I may stay a sober man
Although I drink my fill.

Sobriety is a jewel
That I do much adore;
And therefore keep me dancing
Though drunkards lie and snore.
O mind your feet, O mind your feet,
Keep dancing like a wave,
And under every dancer
A dead man in his grave.
No ups and downs, my pretty,
A mermaid, not a punk;
A drunkard is a dead man,
And all dead men are drunk. 

William Butler Yeats

How could anybody say it better than that?

[Guest Chicago]

"Nobody cheers me"

 

by a lonely Thai MB

[Guest ryanasia]

Sounds like they should be more pro-active. That shit wouldn't fly in Holland. Please check your private messages.

[Guest ryanasia]

Here is one of mine. Why not? Obviously I have some mommy issues. lol

 

"Ode to mom"

 

I look with hatred and sense your fears

 

Fucking well right you should be scared

 

 

I am a very sick man enjoying his illness

 

Unrepentant and strong I sip the thick poison

 

 

You are inside my you bitch deep in my heart

 

it has  always been you that I wanted to hurt

 

 

Which makes me hate myself more than you ever did

 

You always knew that you would win in the end

 

 

Please forgive me my mother I wish I was  another

 

Instead I was weaned from your tit on an artless nectar

 

 

Which makes me hate myself more than you ever did

 

You always knew that you would win in the end

 

titanium breaks but it never bends

 

 

The day that I die and all else fails

 

seal the pine box with rusty old nails

 

 

cry for me with greedy decore

 

grieve for me as you would a whore

 

let your tears well up into the crowd

 

storm from the funeral feeling so proud

[Guest abang1961]

R,

Thanks for your postings.

You have opened not a can of worms but the truth behind the life of a sex worker.

 

I, fortunate or unfortunate (depending on how one looks at it), had never had that experience getting paid for sex.  I did it pro bono. You have me riveted when you mentioned that the lifestyle is a CHOICE rather than a consequence of poverty.

 

Here in Singapore where the general education standard is higher and most local guys have a minimum college education, working as a social escort is quite unthinkable.  However, we have plenty of foreign talents from our neighbouring countries offering massage as the alternative way to direct selling.

 

Back to the boys in Thailand, are Thai guys generally "disinterest" in learning new skills like improving your English proficiency or hair-cutting etc?  R, when you were on the job, was there a thought for the future along the way?  Or was it a day-to-day, hand to mouth affair?

[Guest ryanasia]

It is almost 6 am so I will sleep on it and offer my thoughts when I am more able to think clearly. I make these remarks sort of as a bookmark so that I can review them and get back to the questions. This is bound to be a lengthy post to answer you and I am just beat now. Good night everybody. 

[Guest McGarty]

you mention alcohol and being drunk quite frequently. are you in danger of becoming an alcoholic?

[Guest ryanasia]

Yes, I am an alcoholic.  You are going to find in the sex industry that chemical addiction is common and not the exception to the rule.

[Guest whall]

Not sure if you want to say...you can be general..what you doing now? Or did you make enough money you don't have to work? None of my business obviously! Just curious.

[Guest ryanasia]

I will satisfy your curiosity soon enough. I have a pretty good life and am about to curl up with burma boy. I will make a more serious post tomorrow. 

[Guest ryanasia]

angry birds lol