Ashes to Ashes....

[kokopelli]

I am not sure if this has been  discussed previously on this forum and was wondering what others have planned for their final exit from Thailand and life on earth?

 

I was speaking with a friend who visits annually and had said, if he died while in Thailand, he would want his intact remains repatriated to his home country for a proper burial. I  have also heard the same from an expat who wants his  body returned to his home country for burial.

 

For me cremation would be my choice but then what to do with the cremains?  Although my friend did say he would take my urn back with him, in the overhead compartment, in Business Class, of course.

Really don't know what provisions to make and am curious as to other's thoughts.

[mahjongguy]

"...what to do with the cremains?"

 

I've suggested to my partner that he add them to the compost. The rosebushes will like them.

 

But it's his choice, his business, not mine. I'll be done with giving instructions and advice to others.

[Guest Devint6669]

For i don't really care i let my friend and family do what there want, But if you have to ask me just burn me and put me in the ocean...

[Guest scottishguy]

I would like to be stuffed and mounted.............................but why wait!!

[kokopelli]

I was hoping for some more serious responses.

[mahjongguy]

I was 100% serious. The local wat will handle the cremation and my partner will do whatever he wants with the ashes. If I had a family crypt back in my home country, it would be simple enough for him to hand off the parcel to DHL or FedEx.

 

For those who want to be cremated, put in an urn, and have that urn delivered to their home country, and want the whole thing handled in a more formal manner, there are service companies in Bangkok which will take care of it. They have air freight arrangements in place at both ends. Contact info can be provided by your embassy. These are the same people who handle embalming and repatriation of bodies for burial.  

[mahjongguy]

Sorry, I see that DHL and FedEx may not accept cremains. So, a friend acting on your behalf would need to take the parcel himself, as baggage, or handle making air freight arrangements with an airline and with Customs. Some destination countries require that the recipient be a funeral home.

 

The funeral services companies in Bangkok are not cheap but I can see why many would hire them even when there are only cremains to be delivered. 

[Guest fountainhall]

As others have pointed out, like them I won't be here. As I don't wish to be a burden on anyone, I have left an instruction to be cremated wherever I should die. I thought for a long time about where the ashes should be strewn - places which were important to me during my life, maybe some in the South China Sea off Hong Kong, some in Japan, some here - and then I realised, again, it doesn't matter! But some of my family members have strong feelings of 'family' and I think what happens is more important for them. I have therefore asked for my ashes to be scattered over the grave of my mother and father. The circle then becomes complete and I am history! 

[Rogie]

Living in the UK, I quite like the idea of a woodland burial, but haven't thought about it all really other than having an idea in my head. Out of interest here is one I came across but right now I have no idea whether I would definitely choose to opt for burial in such a place. If I did decide I would then make my wishes known to my next of kin. It would be important to do that because cremation seems to be the default method nowadays, unless requested otherwise.

 

http://www.burialswithnature.co.uk/default.htm

 

If I was living in Thailand I don't know what I'd do. Visiting is fine, but I very much doubt I would want to live in Thailand on my own, hence if I was living there it would be with another person, so all being well (i.e. death as a planned event rather than an unforseen accident) we would have discussed the arrangements.

[mahjongguy]

"death as a planned event rather than an unforseen accident"

 

In Thailand the odds of an accidental death are favorable, so it'd be a good idea to have a plan even on sunny healthy day.

 

So many ex-pats I know don't even have a Will, much less an instruction letter to their Embassy regarding their remains.    

[kokopelli]

Ok , here are some facts and thoughts. Fact is your Embassy will most likely contact the next of kin to determine what happens to the deceased remains. So, best to advise next of kin and/or have something in writing authorizing disposal of the body.

For me I have written instructions for my  Thai bf to be the responsbile individual and have notified next of kin of my wishes in writing.

 

Originally I thought to have the bf inter my urn somewhere in the same area in his village where his deceased parents reside. But when I saw photos of the  cemetery (some kind of wall with niches) it looked like a dump! Litter was scattered all over the ground. Not somewhere to spend eternity!

So maybe would want to taken home and put with the rest of the family.

 

And also thought about becoming mulch!  When I owned property it was was desire to have my ashes mixed with earth and placing them in a hole with a tree planted on top. But that is no longer an option.

 

Even if I went when in the USA I would go for the cremation option since so much cheaper than burial. But did look into a green burial where the bod is unembalmed and placed directly in the ground in a shroud or simple pine box. There is one very old cemetery in my area dating back to Colonial times which only allows this type of burial.

 

http://www.steelmantowncemetery.com/

[Bob]

Fact is your Embassy will most likely contact the next of kin to determine what happens to the deceased remains. So, best to advise next of kin and/or have something in writing authorizing disposal of the body.

For me I have written instructions for my  Thai bf to be the responsbile individual and have notified next of kin of my wishes in writing.

 

I can only speak as to what happens with US citizens and I realize we're going over old ground, at least in part.  But here goes:

 

(1) If you have no Thai Will, then the Thai authorities will get around to notifying the US embassy that one of their citizens has died.

(2)  The Embassy will then begin try to locate what statutorily is called the "next of kin."  This isn't easy for the most part as they'll likely contact whatever person you've written in your passport to notify in case of an emergency (or, if you've registered your presence in Thailand with the embassy via their traveler program, they'll notify the person you named via that program). They'll start asking relevant questions - like did the decedent have a Will or have probate proceedings started.  If whoever they contact is aware that a US Will exists, then the embassy is going to take instructions (or provide assistance) to whoever is appointed by a local probate court as the executor/administrator.  Now, that won't happen quickly as your local executor/administrator needs to have a death certificate to file the probate proceedings - and that'll take a couple of weeks to get from the Thai authorities.  I'd note that it's also possible - at least as suggested by the embassy - that they'll honor the wishes of the proposed executor named in the US Will (but, again, they need some certified documents and payments in advance - they aren't going to take any action or authorize the release of any remains based on a phone call).

(3)  Okay, let's fast forward to the point that the embassy knows for certain who the next of kin is or will be.  They (the embassy) then needs certified documents from that person in their hot little hands and money paid in advance to handle any local funeral or expatriation of remains.  Again, time passes.  Eventually, if the certified "next of kin" is identified and has sent the proper certified paperwork to the embassy (or consulate) and the referenced "next of kin" authorizes cremation in Thailand, then the remains will be released and a cremation can take place here.  And not until that happens.

 

Alternatively, presuming you want to be quickly cremated in Thailand, the only way to do that is to have a Thai Will with somebody named in that Will to handle matters for you.  I had a question about this because the embassy website doesn't really talk about whether they will honor a Thai Will and Thai executor; so, I sent an email to the embassy and received a reply that they would indeed honor your wishes expressed in a Thai Will and will let the Thai executor promptly take possession of the remains for cremation.  At least that's what they assured me.

 

Back to the original post, I want to be quickly cremated and my ashes disposed of in an unidentifiable manner (preferably, as my younger brothers used to call it, via a "terminal swirly" - which is a ride down the porcelain receptacle). I have no desire to have my ashes sitting in some urn on somebody's fireplace, spread over somebody's garden, or whatever.  Just toss them away.

[t0oL1]

I would like to be stuffed and mounted.............................but why wait!!

Again???

[kokopelli]

Thanks Bob.  I do have a Thai Will but it makes no mention of what to do with my remains. So will correct that omission.  What you posted does show the importance of pre-planning and not trust someone else to make important decisions.

 

Now, for that terminal swirly, I suggest not flushing 2 kg/4lbs of bone chips down the drain; that could cause a blockage.

In the USA the bone fragments are put through a grinder to reduce to a uniform size but don't know just what they may do in Thailand. Cremains are not really ash as we often think but maybe more like clinkers.

 

[Bob]

In the USA the bone fragments are put through a grinder to reduce to a uniform size but don't know just what they may do in Thailand. Cremains are not really ash as we often think but maybe more like clinkers.

 

Like you said, the "ashes" here in the US are pretty much all ashes; however, not in Thailand.  Many years ago, a Thai boy I once knew in Udon Thani wanted me to go see his recently deceased mother who was then "residing" at a local temple in a jar much like the one in your photo above. The large jar was sitting in a recess in one of the outer walls and contained rather large pieces of bones and chunks of other nasty-looking things I didn't want to contemplate.  Almost made me gag (and most definitely helped me decide that I sure as hell don't want to see that for me (if you want to meet me, you'll need to do it before I give up the ghost.  (Of course in Thailand, they don't give up ghosts.....they serve them orange Fantas....hehe).

[PattayaMale]

I believe the US Embassy Citizens' Services will also help the family in the USA arrange for transport of the US citizen back to the US. The cost is not cheap! The embassy will not make any payments or give financial support. However, they will help with details, I believe.

[ChristianPFC]

Why is everyone thinking about ashes? I am decades away from death (at least I hope so), but if I die, I want to be buried in a forest. No grave, no flowers, no raking of the sand around my grave.

[Bob]

Why is everyone thinking about ashes? I am decades away from death (at least I hope so), but if I die, I want to be buried in a forest. No grave, no flowers, no raking of the sand around my grave.

The important question Koko was asking was what plans have you made, if any, in case you die in Thailand.  Have you made any plans?  You want your body eventually shipped back to the Black Forest (and who's going to foot that expensive bill)? Want to be cremated or buried in Thailand?

 

I don't plan on dying soon either; however, making no plans ultimately means (in the event you get nailed by a bus in Bangkok or whatever) that you're dumping a whole lot of problems and expense on family members back in the fatherland.

[kokopelli]

Why is everyone thinking about ashes? I am decades away from death (at least I hope so), but if I die, I want to be buried in a forest. No grave, no flowers, no raking of the sand around my grave.

 

Considering your recent assault and other  risky behaviors you may be closer to your final exit than you think.

 

 

However since you have expressed an interest in being repatriated to Germany have you made any prerparations?  Or is your wish to be buried in Thailand?  Do you mean your body or your ashes to be planted in a forest?

[NIrishGuy]

I think if you investigate the cost of repatriating a body to anywhere you'll see why people almost always end up getting cremated at the place of death and sent back to wherever. From the little I know about it ( granted) getting your body embalmed and repatriated just isn't a feasible option if you wish to leave anything in your will that's not eaten into by that cost.

[kokopelli]

NIrishGuy; Not necessarily true what you say.  I know two individuals who do want their intact remains to be returned to their home country for an in-ground burial.  Both have the money and were quite adamant.  In one case the expat has a family member who insists that he be returned for burial; in the other case the frequent flyer has a fear of cremation, a form of  thanatophobia. Seems he wants to spend eternity with his parents back home (earth to earth).Talking with these chaps led me to my post on ashes to ashes.  Actually some medical insurance policies do cover cost of repatriation.

[ChristianPFC]

I have no plans what to do with my body after death (apart from registering for organ donation when I studied in England three years ago). I prefer burial to cremation, place of burial (i.e. country) is not important to me. I want my body to be buried in a forest, in a bag, no coffin and and gravestone.

[kokopelli]

Christian, I have just the place for you here in the USA. Everything you want in the afterlife except a hot boy.  But not sure if you would need a passport/visa for  a long time stay.

 

steelmantowncemetery.com

[Rogie]

To save copying and pasting, the link given in the above post is the same one as in post #11 (as far as I know, I haven't double checked).

 

I assume a 'forest' burial is the same as a 'woodland' one, maybe just a place that's been in use for a lot longer so the trees have grown much bigger. I'm not sure if there is a difference between forest and woodland, but 'forest' always conjures up mature trees in a rural setting. The idea of a woodland burial is, I believe, that a tree is planted for every grave. I presume the grave must be dug deep enough and far away enough so that bits of bone don't get disturbed as the tree grows larger putting down its strong roots.

 

Re: repatriation. As I do not live in Thailand and only visit, my travel insurance should cover it. Here is the wording . . . "The repatriation of your body or ashes back to your home or up to £5,000 for funeral expenses in the country where you die if it is outside the UK"

[KhorTose]

I have read with great interest all of your plans and advice, but my choice is far simpler.  i am just going to live forever.