macaroni21

And then there are (a) buskers/ beggars on the carriages, (b) mentally ill people shouting into the air... Haha. It's a unique experience. Once, I even heard gunshots, but thankfully it wasn't from inside the carriage but from the street below (the track ran overground at that point).

I can't quite check it out on my phone, but is it a physical map that, on purchase, is delivered to one's postal box, or does it have a digital version accessed on one's phone?

You're absolutely right. Senso is one of the few massage places in Bangkok that charge an all-inclusive price, so it's a good barometer for comparison. Senso charges 3,100 baht for 60 minutes and 3,500 for 90 (in-house room). That's equivalent to 15,000 yen and 17,000 yen respectively, very similar to market rates in Japan.

I don't think there was a typo. @topper's numbers are internally consistent. 3000 reais is 575 USD, while 3800 reais is 725 USD. I noted he hired via rentman. Edit: his reply crossed mine.

Normally when I see a post that opens this way, effectively saying "I don't want to do the work, so I ask you to do the work instead, giving me the answers" -- I won't bother to reply. You would also have noticed that other members are also relatively quiet. However, I see that you have contributed trip reports before (from Japan) and I will give you some credit. But I can't yet answer your question(s) because there are too many pieces of vague-ish information in your post. So, if you will clarify these, you may get more specific responses. But a word of advice: please do not bring Japan into the discussion -- it is such a different place with a totally different business culture, it can only confuse the conversation (and your own expectations). What do you mean by the term "regular club"? And what do you mean by "more than that"? In another paragraph, you used the word "bar". Do you mean the same thing? In your speech, are bars and clubs interchangeable terms for the same type of establishment? Was that person really a female or do you mean an MTF transgender? If you can remember, just name the place. We don't know if you're referring to one of the places that members of this forum are familiar with or whether you're at some other place we know little about. We can give you advice about how to protect yourself in place we're familiar with, but if it's a place that also foreign to us, then of course our words are meaningless. That other place may well have business practices that are "normal" for them. Best to be specific about the "club" we're referring to, otherwise we may be going around in circles in the discussion. If you managed to have fun in your previous visit to Thailand without ever getting a massage, why are your questions geared to "how to avoid a massage"? You seem to be asking: How do I get paid sex in Thailand with the type of boy I like -- and I think your preference is for very slim, as-young-looking-as-possible lads -- in my hotel room without any massage activity? Must this be in Bangkok, or are you prepared to spend more time in Pattaya? At 33, you're young enough to score at the saunas -- why do you want to pay?

Maybe the defibrillators didn't work when needed.

Not true 😂. Some are tight-fisted.

Officially opened. Announced on Youtube. To @vinapu's face-to-face question, re-confirmed it is open. But signboard still not changed. This reminds me of an experience from maybe 20 years back. I'm not saying that the story behind the White Cat (now more like Schrödinger's Cat) is like in my story... I am just reminded of that particular case, and maybe it's as good an opportunity as any to regale you with that story. I was at the time attached to the Bangkok head office of a Thai company, consulting on a project. One day I was implored (more like expected/obliged) to fly up to Khon Kaen for a ceremony. I never knew why it was so important that I should go since whatever it was had nothing to do with the project I was working on with them. Anyway, go I did. It was the opening ceremony of their new distribution centre. But when the busload of dignitaries (of which I was supposed to be one) arrived at the site, it became quite obvious that the warehouse was not quite ready. The building looked complete from the outside, but once inside, it was totally bare. No shelving, no furniture in the warehouse office, no phone or data connection, though at least there was electricity and lights. No stock either except for one lonely pallet of goods in the centre of the vast empty floor. I vaguely remember that the company had not even begun to hire staff for the Khon Kaen depot. Nor had delivery vehicles been purchased for this site. Monks came in soon after and a blessing ceremony was held. Apparently, the astrologer had fixed this day as the most auspicious day for the inauguration of the distribution centre. It might have been realistic if the building contractor had been on schedule, but clearly he was not. Anyway, the auspicious date had to be kept, and so the warehouse was officially opened. And to"prove" that it had become operational, a pallet was trucked in all the way from another distribution centre (I vaguely remember it was Ubon but I could be wrong) to sit majestically in the new warehouse. After the monks' ceremony, that pallet was loaded onto a lorry and delivered to a customer, apparently also somewhere in the Ubon area, so basically the pallet was driven 300km to sit in the warehouse overnight, and then driven back the same 300km to a customer in the Ubon area -- this was whispered to me cheekily by another "dignitary" on the bus who knew more than I did about the distribution centre. The long and short of it was that after that delivery was made "proving" that the distribution centre was open and operational, it must have fallen back into a phantom state for several months more before a second delivery was made from its doors. That day I had to put on my best behaviour and was extremely diplomatic about everything I saw (or rather, everything I should be seeing, shelves, goods, staff, trucks, customer orders... but did not). I was so well behaved (most uncharacteristic of me) that I must have treated myself to an ice-cream once back in Bangkok. I think some readers in the forum who have Thai boyfriends would understand the "logic" behind all this.

I'm sure I am not the only person scratching my head as to why they're not keeping the Atlas name. I don't know the answer, but surely, after a year in business, there must be some goodwill and name recognition attached to it. Maybe there's a trademark challenge from other similarly named entertainment businesses, or maybe it's just plain superstition after an unsuccessful year under that name.

By now we're in February and the high season, whatever that means, must be winding down. 12 to 21 customers in Moonlight has been roughly their steady state for several years now. I have seen rainy season numbers closer to 7 or 8 customers, though, which is depressing. Similarly, ten floor boys (what I call "numbertag boys") is also the typical size of crew. I still find it hard to imagine how that is a viable level of traffic for the bar. But @vinapu's mention of big spenders from China may offer a clue -- provided the bar takes a biggish percentage cut of the 1,000 baht (is that correct?) per garland. On that note, any idea of current off fee? Is it still 500 baht for numbertag boys and 1,000 baht for models? Any business that relies on a narrow base of occasional big spenders is a business on shaky legs. Big spenders can disappear overnight; there can't be many of them (thus definition of "big" spenders) so difficult to replace if a few stop coming. Always better to have a borader base of customers. Just think of Canada (and to a lesser extent China) relying too much on exports to USA. But a broader base of customers (for bars) requires a more moderate price level.

When I read this earlier post from you..... My impression was that 8 of the ten floorboys were new or not noticed before. You were not in that sentence referring to the models, of which, coincidentally, there were eight. They can't be all new; turnover of models is not fast.

You're being so kind 😅 But seriously, for an official video announcing the reopening, it's quite pathetic. It's official because it was posted on their Facebook. https://www.facebook.com/people/White-Cat-BAR/61570325579094/ If one didn't know a bit of its previous incarnation, one would not have a clue what this White Cat is about. Four middle-aged men fully dressed standing still on a stage? Nothing in the background to suggest any other reason to go? At one level, it suggests very poor marketing and management skills if they even thought that the video was good enough for release, which in turn may indicate that they do not have the capacity to reinvent the business. I cannot help but wonder if they're stuck in a nostalgic rut for a business model that was a success 10 to 15 years ago and has struggled for a decade since. However, at this point, I am only commenting on the video, not the bar itself which we should reserve judgement on till there have been at least 3 or 4 reports. I also wonder if the readers on this board are also stuck in a nostalgic rut. Frankly, I don't think a muscle bar with gogo, nude shows and rent boys is viable any longer in Bangkok. Firstly staffing: In the present economy where is one to find new beefy blood willing to do public sex? From reports here and my visit last year, even ThanTawan has been unable to refresh their stable with younger guys. Secondly, market size: Even on this board, I think the number of members enamoured with body builder types can be counted on the fingers of two hands, and who on average visit just once or twice a year. How is any bar to survive with such a tiny market? Recent reports about pushy mamasans at Thantawan -- and @Shax's report about Thantawan upping its off fee to 800 baht on weekends -- may suggest financial desperation.

You're surely more familiar than I am, but what I've heard from my Singapore and Malaysian friends is that the gay bars and clubs in Taipei are very happening places, though these reports might be skewed because they tend to go there during Taipei Pride. But if they are correct, then it would be hard to imagine that the Taiwanese would only be interested in massage places when visiting Bangkok. Why would a Taiwanese make a video for a Singaporean audience? If you're suggesting that the video was made by a Singaporean, then there are 2 clues against it. The gay Singaporeans of bar-and-clubbing age with the skills to make a video and the wherewithal to travel (actually, most Singaporeans have that wherewithal) would speak English as their first language. Many can speak Chinese, but if they're going to make a video, they're not going to do it in their second language. Also, Singapore uses simplified Chinese, not traditional script (not so sure about Malaysia).

Haha 🤣 Maybe he's still on the bus, and without phone signal, can't tell us.

Just found a very recent video to illustrate what we may be talking about: I can see how impactful a video like this can have in directing newbie tourists to specific places, or in channelling those who want to go where the crowd goes. I think it goes a long way to explaining the long queues at some of these places' doors, and the surge during the annual White Party. The subtitles are in traditional Chinese, so this is probably a Taiwanese vlogger. Also, while I'm not even a Chinese speaker, let alone any expert on the language, the accent sounds very different from what I hear when in China, so again, I think it is Taiwanese. I know this topic isn't of any interest to most members of this board, and in fact it is off-script to the forum topic which is really about HK, China and Taiwan (apologies!), but for those like me who wonder how gay and erotic businesses should market themselves within a niche (not just to the Chinese market), this is instructive.

Thanks, @10tazione... This indicates what bars and massage businesses hoping to draw Chinese traffic need to do. They have to work with selected Chinese visitors who can act as influencers. E.g. offer a discount to anyone who can demonstrate a biggish following on their social media. Better yet, have pre-produced video snippets of their shows or massage boys in action (always with their shop name in the background) and say, "hey, would you like to incorporate these few seconds of video into your social media story? it's free to use." If done well, these video snippets should be eye-catching. I know, reputable journalism has a gold standard where reviewers must not accept any benefit from the business being reviewed, but that's for mainstream journalists; influencers and wannabe-influencers are not above enjoying discounts, I can tell you that. Now why does this sound familiar? Oh, isn't that what ShamelessMack tries to do too? Haha. But, to be clear, ShamelessMack does not accept discounts or freebies in return for reviews. He does not even identify himself to any business, so no business knows to offer such deals -- to avoid precisely such as situation. ShamelessMack has no pretensions about bveing an influencer; well past the age group, and anyway, the readership is laughably small!

I did the bus thing many years ago, but what recall about it was that there was no phone signal almost the length of the route (6 hours, if I recall correctly). I am intrigued that you're posting this "on the bus"... Have things improved?

Looking forward to your report. I think you also mentioned in an earlier post that you'll try to find out how the Taiwanese (or other Chinese speakers) know about the bars and other places in Thailand and which platform they use to chat/share. I'd be most interested to know too, as I have long been intrigued why Fresh Boy and Dream Boy get a consistent Chinese crowd but Hotmale and Moonlight are nearly bare on the same nights.

Thanks @Kiwi306 for your public service. I had to read your post twice because your opening paragraph seemed to suggest that it had opened for business ("ie the opening of the White Cat bar") and you were about to report on a visit. But in the end your likely conclusion was that it had not yet opened - is that right? Your dedication is appreciated. I believe you parked yourself at a nearby chicken rice stall for two and a half hours to be in the vicinity for regular checks. Why do you think Atlas was mismanaged? And since White Cat has the same owner (based purely on what I am reading here; I have no new information), are you then of a similar opinion as @khaolakguy?

Perhaps you're thinking of 76 Garage. I have not cared to visit, and anyway it was not in Jomtien, but Bangkok. I use the past tense because Google says "Permanently closed". See this post by @Jasper from September 2020: https://www.gayguides.com/topic/13101-sit-2-sis-restaurant-and-ent-club/#comment-145863 and a later one by @PeterRS from November 2023: https://www.gayguides.com/topic/40259-chinese-tourists-avoiding-thailand-bbc-report/#comment-366800

2019 is ancient history when it comes to the gay scene in Bangkok. Former member reader reported in this comment dated 6 Feb 2025 that the bar had been sold to a former manager and some investors. The only change they made was the jettisoning of the long red pants that the Moonlight owner imposed on the boys. It's really such a shame. IMHO, Hotmale does have some attractive boys but their marketing sucks. They have zero idea what marketing is. They're not even making an effort. I can't find any working Line account for them and their Facebook page's most recent post, if you can call it recent, dates from January 2025.

😳 you spent time with a content creator -- can I assume someone on OnlyFans or similar? -- doing the usual plus filming? Will you soon be world famous on OnlyFans (or whichever platform) too?

Monster is one of the sub-busnesses of Material Group (www.mate-real.com). Check out the other businesses, each of which is highly specialised. Monster is for those who go gaga over big appendages, never mind what body or face they are attached too. Non-Binary offers fem boy escorts exactly as the name implies. GMPD offers heavy bodies - not in any muscular way. Freestyle offers escorts who are prepared to travel to meet clients (at least that's how I am interpreting the information on the page). Men's Healing Place is for massage with only "close contact" or "hand massage", i.e. no hard sex. Boyish: I found this one a bit confusing. At first I thought it meant a slate of barely legal boys, but it seems to have mostly girls with short hair, plus a fair number of FTMs. (Wasn't there a discussion recently where a member said his 2026 resolution was to conquer FTMs, his last frontier? Bro -- hot foot it to Japan!) The real disappointment is the sub-business Dumbbell, supposedly specialising in muscular and athletic men, but scrolling through the pictures, they are mostly lean athletic, very few body builder types. Trust the Japanese to create such specific specialisations for different market niches. However, the same boy can be offered through different stores. For example, Daisuke belongs to Monster but is also advertised by Dumbbell. It's self-description at the bottom of the main page is refreshingly blunt: "The Materials Group One of the largest in Tokyo It is a group of prostitution stores." How many similar businesses in any other country would call itself a "prostitution store"!

Yet another Singapore sponsor? Good heavens, what's wrong with these sponsors??? Alternatively, I had better find one myself.

I have a write-up on Shamelessmack at https://shamelessmacktwo.travel.blog/2025/02/12/onnut-is-not-that-fafa-on-the-bts-sukhumvit-line/ The visit was about 13 months ago and Fafa was rather new then. I wrote that, located where they were, they'd need aggressive marketing to succeed. I'm glad they're doing that. As for quality of services, there's not much I can say since I have only made that one visit - hardly a representative sample! Do note the shop does not have ensuite showers, as my post makes clear.