macaroni21

@Tomontheroad Consider Prestige -- another place where you're likely to get a good massage plus some non-penetrative fun. I say "likely" because my understanding is that Prestige does not have an in-house trainer (at least not on a regular basis) and the boys I've met had received their training elsewhere before joining Prestige, so it can happen that a few of them are not as good as one would expect. The places on Silom Soi 6 (see exceptions further down) are also good bets; I have generally been satisfied with the standard of massage, and as far as I can recall, all my visits to the these places had extras added on. However, it always involves in-room negotiation re the rates. Some members here dislike having to negotiate. However, there are two exceptions with Silom Soi 6. One is Prime - no chance of extras. The other is 9-teen. In my one and only visit, extras were offered but I declined. The massage was not great either.

Could you tell us something about the traffic situation around your hotel in Petchaburi Road? Few members of this forum stay there and so we have very little information in this regard. The one time I went to a hotel in the area (perhaps 20 years ago) was to meet a friend for dinner; he was staying there. And I found the traffic to be very frustrating. I often stay in hotels along the Sukhumvit stretch, and the traffic is intolerable too. Grab drivers don't want to be around this area, so it's a bummer. Fortunately, there is the BTS line running the length of Sukhumvit Road and there is the interchange with the MRT line at Asok/Sukhumvit. However. the Petchaburi Road area has no rail transport (unless you're close enough to Makkasan and Petchaburi stations). Has it been a problem getting from your hotel to the fun places?

Sounds like you're having a great time. But initial advice toyourself -- pace yourself-- should not be forgotten. You have seven weeks and you don't want to be jaded too soon. Are you planning some excursions out of Bangkok? I find it a good way to recharge my batteries after about a week in the city.

Which branch of TCS are you booking with? Anyway, sounds like you're having a great time.

Thank you for assuring me that I am not very old.... 🤣

You must have either read wrongly or remembered wrongly. It's 3,500 baht for 1.5 hours, all-in.

There's this on Facebook "New Guy Bar" https://www.facebook.com/NewGuyBar but the header also says "bar and massage". The Facebook page is active, with the most recent posts January 1, January 4 and February 15. However, the pics appear to be taken from their CCTV feed which some gay customers might not like due to its indiscirminate nature; also they show quite a lot of women in the bar.

I think it's been said before that the Atlas location rent was too high. You are right that the location on Patpong 1 is not intuitive, but for now, it is what it is. One might also say that when (eons ago) the original Tawan and original Jupiter began (Jupiter was where the current Telephone bar is, I believe), they were in really odd locations too. But over time, people got to know where they were, with a bit of help from Spartacus Guide. Even now, Thantawan and Moonlight put barkers at the mouths of their alleys to try to get a few new customers every night. I think White Cat will need more than a doorman at the bottom of their stairs. They need this guy to walk up and down Patpong 2 (where the gay folks stroll) handing out fliers with a little map of their location on the next soi. Flier can also serve as a discount coupon: "show this flier and get 100 baht off your first drink".

He did have staff, a handful at least. They must have walked out on him when after a couple of weeks they realised that there weren’t enough customers to provide them with income. Launching a new business is horrendously difficult. I’ve been trying to help businesses step up a notch, and even then, one notch is helluva difficult, especially when the business owner (a) has had no business education and (b) started it as a personal hobby. Many things must come together, synchronously, to launch a business successfully. In the case of a gogo bar, the lease and outfitting the space, getting staff, building up a head of excited customers waiting for opening day, advertising campaigns, and most important of all, a business plan to fight for market share and create a brand identity. One needs deep pockets. Rent has to be paid (including up-front deposits). Contractors and suppliers have to be paid. Staff have to be paid. Palms have to be greased. More than that, just to fight for market share will likely involve price promotions, loss-leader offers and so on... for several months or even a year before one breaks even. I have no details about the finances at White Cat, but he must have lost a lot of money on Atlas and probably does not now have the cash buffer (the working capital) needed to launch White Cat properly. That he can’t even afford to get a signboard made is symptomatic. I have seen too many people start businesses the way they would pitch up at a farmer’s market in the village square -- park yourself there and customers will come. Well, if you’re selling your home-grown water melons, if you don’t hire staff but expend your own time, if you don’t have to pay for the space in the village square, and if the human traffic is already in the square, maybe.... except that you still need to be prepared for the other stall to undercut you price-wise and your melons go unsold. A gogo bar is nothing like that. Every little component of the business plan and set-up costs money. Most important of all, the human traffic is not waiting for you at the village square. Your potential customers are dispersed all around the world. How do you get them to know about your water-melon stall? How do you get them to make their way to your door? And mind you, they have to make their way to your door in enough numbers within a week or two of opening day so that you start with a bang, and that momentum is what will hopefully create the further word of mouth to carry you further. Of course, you need staff at hand to create the bang too, you need a DJ, a bartender, you need stock for your bar.... so as I said, a million things need to come together synchronously to launch a business successfully. I don’t see that White Cat was doing any of these things right. Instead I see a copycat idea (thus no unique branding) poorly, pennilessly executed with no realistic plan. I'm not trying to diss his attempt, and I for one would love to see an addition to Bangkok's gay scene, but I also appreciate how difficult it is in business.

Was just catching up on this thread... Do I understand you correctly? The boss himself performed a full monty on stage? Just for you only or were there other customers in the bar? Or do you mean he got one of his boys to do the show/monty?

Yes. It is in the short alley that connects Soi 13/5 to 13/4. Its front door is sort of opposite BoyzBoyzBoyz's front door. Classic Boys is classic fem twinks territory.

@a-447 the name Narcissus rings a bell, but for the life of me, I can't recall where it was or what its outside or inside looked like. I keep mixing it up with Nautilus, formerly at Pattaya Soi 2. Remind me please about Narcissus?

The opposite of X-boys. Whereas the show at X-boys near Boystown has virtually no clothes, that at the Best Bar in Jomtien Complex features layers of clothing: chiffon, fake fur, sequins....

Really live? Too much gin and gin?

I have never been to the Sukhumvit branch of Prestige Massage -- it's some distance away in Onnut, I think -- but although I too was interested to check it out, a boy at the Chong Nonsi branch told me that the rooms in the Sukhumvit branch did not have ensuite bathrooms. This made me hesitate. Would it be worth the trouble to make the trip?

But, all said and done, I'd rather have a room with no mirrors. The problem is that when one is entwined with the boy du jour, any reflected image of boy likely includes reflected image of self -- which tends to be ego-destroying. If there is any market niche for AI, it should be for AI mirrors that know when and how to "edit" the reflection.

Nagoya struck me as basically an industrial hub. Been there, see no need to revisit. It was not too long ago in China, when a guy brought me to a love hotel (we must have been the only same sex couple to use the place) whose rooms had mirrors all around. The whole place had an over-the-top decor, glitzy like Las Vegas, and large. The room too was large. It had mirrors all over, but I quickly realised that big rooms and mirrors don't go well together. To see yourself or your partner in action, I needed binoculars.

I hope what I said didn't come across as offensive, because offending was certainly not my intention. But if I sounded offensive, please accept my apologies. My point was simply that cities change constantly, and online maps support changes (and often they're free) better than print. Sure, they can issue new editions from time to time, but even so, one has buy them.

Not recommendation for OP who has his own taste, or for anyone else. Based on my taste, and for myself.

This is useful to know. Would the pindrop be in the correct location? Just to be sure. If so, it is 750m south of the station but on the other side of the railway track. There are 2 Google reviews of this place. Both speak of the male masseurs. Clearly, this place has a track record. The poor girls working there must be envious of the attention that their male colleagues are getting.

@PeterRS How does one use a map that is 15 years old? There's a serious risk of outdated information. If we used a 15-year old map of Bangkok or Pattaya, we'd be making a beeline for Soi Twilight and Sunnee plaza... I always prefer online maps. They are more likely to be up to date and since I am already carrying a phone, why carry another object - a book? But coming to the point, I have never had trouble finding places in Japan, though maybe I haven't been trying to get to out of the way places. Most establishments nowadays are able to send you a googlemap reference that is very accurate.

On a different thread someone posed the question: what are the different understandings of the word 'twink' among us. I very much want to add my thoughts to that question, but first, I have to gather my thoughts. As for Good Boy, I don't call the rotation boys in Good Boy twinks. If I have to find a word, I'd use the anodyne 'medium build'. But I see a huge difference between the medium-builds of Good, Fresh and Hotmale. There is what I call the "effortless medium" -- the kind of physique that the deity above makes quite naturally out of young men. Some people call it the 'boy next door' type. They are beautiful in my eyes. I see many in Fresh and Hotmale of this type. I see none in Good. Then there is the "scruffy medium" -- where what the deity has made has been modified by hard labour. They are taut, sinewy, maybe a bit weather-beaten. Some might think of the terms 'tradie type', or 'farmhand type'. They predominate in Good. Made worse by unkempt hair and gross tattoos, thus "scruffy", often bringing to mind street hawkers. The third type is the opposite of Scruffy. I call them the "washed mediums". Yeah I prefer my boys clean and washed. What the deity has made is modified again by a bit of gymming into slightly sculpted bodies -- but not all the way a la Moonlight models, which is likely aided with chemical enhancement. Often, washed mediums come with good skin and nice haircuts. I see some of them at Fresh, and many more of them at Hotmale.

I have a feeling that the English language is a particularly fearsome minefield of "banned" words and expressions. If I have to make a guess, it's probably because it's one of the few languages (Spanish, french and Arabic come to mind) that are spoken in multiple countries, and each country has a nasty history which has loaded some words with unpleasant, offensive historical associations. English speakers in one country may not be aware that in another English-speaking country, certain words convey unacceptable connotations. And then English probably has the largest number of english-as-second-language speakers in the world. We can hardly expect them to know the countless linguistic mines that prevail in this place, that place and so on. One example that immediately comes to mind: the word 'negro' is unacceptable in the USA because of (to the best of my knowledge) its association with slavery and discrimination post-emancipation. It's been replaced by African-American, though because that is such a mouthful, the members of that community often refer to themselves as Black. But try saying 'Blackie' in Australia and the politically correct crowd will crucify you. Meanwhile 'negro' continues in use in Spanish speaking America without much of the angst. As for Oriental, I agree with @mauRICE that it's best avoided because it is associated with colonial condescension, racist hierarchy, etc. I would use East Asian and Southeast Asian. I think someone asked whether there's a term that encompasses both groups. I don't actually see a need for such a term because in my eyes, they are visibly different. It's hard to tell apart the Chinese, Koreans and Japanese, ( and often Vietnamese, Lao and Northern Thai) until they speak or display cultural characteristics, but I have no trouble seeing this more northerly group as different-looking compared to Indonesians, Filipinos, Cambodians, Isaan, southern Thai, Burmese... i.e. the southeast Asians. Here again, I am not saying they are homogenous; the moment they speak or display some cultural mannerism, it quickly reveals their ethnicity.

@daydreamer and @Enchanted_Elixir have given good advice. Thanks for confirming that the main question is: How do I get paid sex in Thailand with the type of boy I like in my hotel room without any massage activity? Your best option is to book an outcall from a Type 4 massage parlour. Type 4 is what @Enchanted_Elixir refers to as H. This is the type of shop that is primarily in the sex business, with "massage" used as figleaf. In Bangkok, they would be the ones that send out lots of boy photos (sometimes with stats) and whose menu includes an outcall option. The Type 2 shops -- they're mainly about quality massage with body-to-body or hand relief thrown in to keep customers satisfied -- may also send out photos, so it can get confusing, but if they have a complicated menu with various kinds of massage, then you can see that their primary focus is really massage. The Type 4 knocking shops also tend to have the twinkier types you may like, but unlike Japan, you won't find many choices in the barely-legal category -- if that is your preference. The reason is simply because the Japanese market has a large customer segment that is interested in this type of boy, but not the Thai market. 15M and 27M have Willy, August and Tommy. Perhaps they're close enough to your range? Fafa may have more of your type, including twins Jack and Jew who are apparently available as a pair (not that I have tried). A difficulty may arise from a request for a deposit if you're booking an outcall. I've never been able to accede to this; I have no advice to give. If a shop does not publish stats alongside photos, you can message them to ask. However, in my experience, they're not 100% accurate. The apps might work, but as anywhere be alert to the possibility that the photos are dated or fake, and other inaccuracies (e.g. over compensation). The gogo bars would be your poorest option. If your type preference is narrow, you may not find the type you like in the bars. Still newish, you may continue to feel that you don't have enough control of the situation, money-wise.

@NoNameFanBoy re Good Boy bar, if it's any consolation, you're not the first to have your wallet exploited on your first visit (to any gogo bar, not just this one), and you won't be the last. By the way, we call these snake pits 'gogo bars' even though the boys don't do any gogo dancing, but the 'one-knee shuffle' as @Gaybutton describes it. @Kiwi306 is right. You're not obliged to buy anyone drinks. The trick is to keep an unfriendly expression on your face and only smile at a boy (never smile at mamasans) when you want to invite him to sit with you. If approached by waiters or mamasans about inviting boys over, just say, "I know what to do. If I want a boy, I will let you know." Bear in mind though, boys do not sit with you for free. If you do invite one to sit with you for 10-20 minutes, you're expected to buy him a drink, and then tip him 100 baht at the end of the 10-20 minutes. If the mamasan or waiter smells 'newbie', he or she will try to get you to buy him/her a drink too when he or she brings your desired boy to you. Don't ever do that. Say "it's ok. I will just buy a drink for him (your desired boy)." If you buy for the mamasan, he or she will stick with you, offer to translate, but in the course of the translation, also say to the boy in Thai (so you don't know what's said) how much the boy should quote - with an extra 500 - 1000 baht built in as commission for the mamasan. Wherever possible, do not use waiters or mamasans to invite a desired boy over. Smile directly at the boy you want and indicate with a wave of your hand that you want him to come to your seat. There are many members of this forum familiar with Good Boy, and they are usually happy enough visiting the bar; it's not as if all customers are eaten alive the way you were. Only newbies. Personally, I see little value in Good Boy but that is because their selection of numbertag boys are just not attractive to my eyes. Tastes differ.