macaroni21

Before we put to bed our wonderful memories of Tawan bar at its long-time Soi Thantawan location, I have a question for those who were familiar with Bangkok even before I became a regular visitor. (My pic above was taken in 2010) I think my first visit to Tawan bar was in the late 1980s (possibly early 1990s), but I somehow remember it as being at a different address from the above picture, possibly facing Surawong Road rather than inside a soi. I don't even remember it as a muscle bar; more like a bar with average-looking boys. What I do remember with certainty is that it had an upstairs room which I used, since, as a newbie, I was too nervous to take boys back to my hotel. Was I mistaken? Was Tawan at a different location before its heyday (at the location pictured above)? Or was I actually in that shop except that its interior looked different in the early days of the bar? And while I am here, I should again give a shout-out to @Lotusleaf's post which contains a link to an entire show at Tawan.

I noticed it too, but I didn't want to draw more attention to it by pointing it out. Slip ups happen, and most of the time, people either don't notice, or if they have, they forget about it. But what do they do? Are they on the beaches? Are they in the bars, in the shopping centres? Do you see them going around outside of the New Town? Some years ago, I remember coming across a review of boy bars in Cebu which carried a preemptive advisory that said these bars are mostly patronised by Korean women and not to think they are aimed at gay males.

Love the turn of phrase.

The situation may not be as dire as first impressions from the story. Most likely there is a separate database that records and stores data pertaining to entry and exit: your passport number and dates. What they thought they had also stored (facepics and fingerprints) might not have been stored after the licence reached its limit. For most travellers who are honest, this should not be a problem. Perhaps those using new or multiple passports to evade detection of prior entries might benefit from the absence of identity matching that a biometric system is meant to provide. However, I saw that the airport authorities had been boasting of a biometric channel the last few months. I have never used it. If anyone here has, perhaps you can tell us whether you had to see a human after going through the biometric channel to get your passport stamped in/out (and maybe the officer made a data entry into the non biometric database of your entry or exit). If you didn't have to see an officer and didn't get a stamp on your passport, then it may be more serious. The process might have relied entirely on the biometric channel to record your in/out, and if the system was not storing that data, as reported, then one can imagine a lot of trouble ahead. Do read the second part of the Bangkok Post story too, about an alleged assassination attempt. This looks very serious.

One can be both. Remember fondly the old days and still look forward to the next trip. There are so many massage places to try!

I have noticed this too in my travels and bathhouse experiences in China, Korea and Japan. The really interetsing one was Tbilisi. AFAIK, there remains just one traditional bathhouse, operating in the same way as a Turkish hammam (Georgia was once part of the Ottoman empire). I have been to hammams in several ex-Ottoman countries, as far away as Morocco. All of them give out these red chequered tea-towel-like hip wraps, and it is just not the done thing to expose one's pubic region. In the steam rooms, everybody wears those towels. Even when they do a body scrub, the wrap stays on. They will not reach into the buttocks, lower abdomen or groin (hey, those areas need scrubbing too!) Except Tbilisi. Everything about that place -- and it's rather wretched, be warned -- said Turkish hammam, except that patrons walked around stark naked. Influence from Russian sauna? +1

Looking back, I feel quite conflicted over saunas. On the one hand, some of my most memorable encounters with strangers were in saunas. In Bangkok saunas, two such encounters (and we're talking decades ago) I still remember with great fondness. What was outstanding in both cases was the pillow talk that followed the already heavenly erotic exercise. One was an airline worker; the other was an executive in the financial sector. They had a fairly good command of English because of their professions and in each case, we must have spent an hour or more just chatting after juice than been spilled. None of the hundreds of gogobar or massage parlour encounters have ever come close to this level of satisfaction. I guess it's mostly because of the language gap. There have been other memorable sauna encounters, but they were not in Thailand (e.g. they were in Hong Kong, Singapore, Amsterdam and Paris), so I'll leave them out for now. On the other hand, there was also a lot of time wasting in saunas. As I grew older with a reducing number of other suana-goers even giving me a second look, this became such a serious issue that I hardly ever go to saunas nowadays. I know of friends of similar vintage who love the dark rooms where looks don't matter, and they still go regularly to saunas, but dark rooms are not my cup of tea. I think it also has to do with personality. There are those who enjoy the thrill of the chase (some members right here on this board), and there is me who is a bit of a stickler for efficiency and value-added (you may have noticed that every time I criticise Thai businesses). I also have two unusual anecdotes. There was one time (in Obelisk) when I was in the top floor jacuzzi, and who would show up but a guy I had been dating in my home country. We weren't fully an item yet (we would soon be, after) but there had been plenty of signals between us that we were becoming serious with each other. Even so, I didn't tell him I was going to Bangkok. He didn't tell me he was going to Bangkok. We only found out when he stood at the edge of the jauzzi with one foot down on the steps leading into the water, and me sitting amidst the bubbles on side opposite him, and him saying "Mack, what are you doing here?" He depolyed a somewhat accusatory tone in his voice. Like my mother! The other anecdote I have was in a dark room; alas I can't remember which sauna. There was this friend (from my home country) who had a month or so previously told me he was leaving for some place -- I can't remember where now, maybe the border areas of Burma where there are Christian communities -- to spend a few months as Christian missionary. I said goodbye and best of luck, tell me about your adventures when you get back. Sure, will do, he said. A month later, I was in a dark room of a Bangkok sauna, and it was one of the few occasions when I indulged in some unsighted groping. Got into heavy petting and much torso-rubbing with someone. This someone then felt we should take things further and in a more conducive environment such as a cabin. "Let's go to a cabin, shall we?" that unseen figure wrapped around me said. I recognised that voice. Quickly applying superglue to my own lips, I unlocked myself from that embrace. You can't imagine how agile I was in rushing out of the dark maze, ducking, twisting and weaving past other bodies with arms reaching out to grab my body parts as I made my way through the crowd. Hmmm... maybe that's why I have not been fond of dark rooms ever since.

I was confused. It felt like a typical flight within the U S of A.

Oh yes, one of the toilets was out of order throughout the entire flight. And the flight was late by 90 minutes.

Yes, in those days, there were two airlines. Thai International was the joint venture with SAS and only flew international routes. Thai Airways was the domestic carrier. I reckon SAS wouldn't have wanted to get involved in domestic routes within Thailand. In those days, virtually all airlines outside of the USA were State-owned and operated. So Thailand's 50% stake in Thai International (or was it 51%?) and 100% stake in Thai Airways would be held by the government of Thailand. The government then passed it on to the Air Force as part of the Air Force's fief. I obviously don't have proof, but I heard from several sources that only ex-Air Force pilots would be considered for Thai International's cockpit positions (not so sure about Thai Airways). I recently had the misfortune of flying Thai (economy) on an intra-SE Asia route. Just 2 - 3 hours. The seats were almost falling apart, with one of my armrests somewhat shaky at the hinge. Across the aisle, the seat wouldn't fully go back to the upright position to the annoyance of the passenger in the seat behind it. The movie options were hopelessly limited with mostly B-grade movies from 10 years ago. The music options even more pathetic, unless I am mistaken, there wasn't a classical music channel. The flight route app was not the kind where one could magnify, rotate the map etc through touching the screen. What you see was what you got. Period. Don't even get me started on the meal options; mostly carbo (noodles or steamed rice) with a tiny portion of meat. If I remember correctly, the main course was in cardboard boxes.

Oh, I just remembered. Among other fiefs given to the military was the right to operate a civilian airline. This was given to the Baron of the Royal Thai Air Force. Thai Airways was theirs until they ran it to the ground... I think the air force still has a stake in it, thus accounting for its continuing inefficiency as a business operation. Then there was the question of the civilian radio and tv airwaves spectrum. I don't know about the current situation, but not too long ago, the military controlled the rights to the spectrum. All radio and tv broadcasters had to pay the military for use of their radio bands. Until Thaksin came along, I think.

Indeed, the way the Thai military is set up, it is almost feudal. Centuries ago in Europe, kings never maintained large standing armies. As and when fighting forces were needed, kings would call upon their fiefs (barons, manorial lords, counts, dukes) to supply soldiers to whatever defence or offensive campaign the king wanted to launch. These feudal lords often had to finance their regiments themselves. “Private” soldiers were basically their serfs who were obliged to perform military service whenever called upon or mercenaries who had to be paid (thus the rank “private”) To enable the feudal lords to have the wherewithal to provide soldiers, the king would grant these lords longstanding rights to their assigned lands (fiefs). The lords essentially have the taxation rights and share of farm produce that those lands could yield. The Thai military operates in ways strikingly similar to this. The king (a century or more ago) carved out huge economic areas (including land rights) that the military could exploit to raise money for itself. The income earned is off the national budget. However, in the decades since, the idea that revenue accrued from economic uses of fief lands would help pay for army personnel and equipment has since been corrupted. Now the revenue is also used to pay for generals’ (and their wives’) lavish lifestyles. It is hardly surprising that the military would brook no interference from other baronial lords (be they the modern police, city mayors, party leaders, even sitting cabinet ministers) with their fiefdom. Such interference is seen as an existential threat. Read this article: https://fulcrum.sg/thailands-new-defence-minister-keeping-the-armed-forces-sweet/ It points out that until 2023, 58 previous defence ministers were serving military officers. Only 5 were civilian, but they were concurrently prime ministers. No government apparently dared to appoint a civilian as defence minister to oversee that fief, unless the PM himself took the job (and probably wouldn’t have much time to interfere in military affairs). The aborted expansion of U-Tapao airport is case in point. It sits on military land, with huge tracts of surrounding areas also military. It was all every well for the civilian government to announce an expansion of the airport to boost tourism to the Pattaya and Ranong region, but as far as the military was concerned, this would only eat into their land holdings, with new revenue perhaps flowing out to the Airports Authority, non-military agencies, airlines and private businesses (King Power group, anyone?). Hardly a surprise to hear that airport expansion is now on hold. Perhaps furious negotiations are underway as to what percentage share of revenues from the expanded airport should flow back to the barons-with-many-medals-on-their chests?

I don't know when Solid Bar closed. Was it around 2015? If it was, and tea money was then 160,000 baht per month, then my (*educated?) guess would be that it is now around 240,000 a month. *Educated because my main area of expertise is business economics. How do I arrive at that? Drinks prices would be a good indicator. Drinks prices and under-the-table money are connected in ways like a snake swallowing its own tail, as in most protection-money rackets. When the takers demand higher amounts, the bars would likely raise drinks prices by a similar percentage to compensate. But the takers also monitor the bars' prices, so when they see the bars raising prices, they up their demands. This dynamic is true the world over where there is corruption and/or protection-money practices. I reckon drinks prices have increased about 50% since around 2015, thus I reckon the brown envelope would need to be fatter by the same degree. However, because drinks price increases turn off customers, the 50% increase in prices do not translate to 50% more overall revenue. Quite possibly overall revenue may be flat because of falling attendance. This long term trend explains the sickly state of the industry. The number of gogo bars are fewer now compared to, say, 2010, and the average crowd size per bar also smaller. Just compare recent reports of customer numbers in Atlas with the numbers we used to see in Tawan pre-Covid.

You started on your Bangkok life earlier than I did. I don't remember Stockholm or Apollo bars. I do remember Twilight with the stage behind the bar and a second stage in the middle of the room built around a mirrored pillar. I also remember Barbiery. They were as you described. In addition to these two, my earliest memories also include Tawan, Jupiter and City Boys in Sukhumvit. Let me see if I can find some time to write about them. It's interesting you mentioned the differences in crowd sizes between weekdays and weekends. I remember that too. In those days, the gogo bars had local Thais making up maybe 2/3 of their clientele (thus weekend highs). That made for a healthier and more stable customer base compared to today's bars that depend 100% on tourism (mostly because of their ridiculous prices).

This is a great start and yes, I too love the style. If I may be selfish 😁 I feel so much better now that there's someone else who also tends to write at length; hurray, I am not alone! The only problem is that it's going to take me a couple of days to read all the seven parts. I do want to read slowly and diligently.

Too many cum stains?

Actually, the Gulf of Mexico itself has sort-of disappeared. In a genuflection to Trump and MAGA, Google Maps (US version) has renamed the Gulf of Mexico as Gulf of America. Let's just say that I'm the sort who continues to refer to the Persian Gulf, not the Arabian Gulf however much the Arab sheikhs might prefer it.

Indeed, tourism has a strong lemming-like quality, resulting in invasive damage. Now Koh Samui is likely the next target:

Haha 😆 I know I am an insufferable nitpicker, but the photo doesn't show spring rolls (lumpia in the Philippines). They show gyoza. I'm pretty sure you know that because you have referred to spring rolls (correctly) before.

If I were you I would quickly try the same route using Grab and see how that works out in comparison, preferably on the same day of week so it factors out traffic variability by day of week. It is 16 km (10 miles to Americans) and even if the car managed no more than 30 km/hour (20 miles/hour), it should only be half an hour. If one were living there, it's not a trip one would need to make every day. One can plan for twice a week and get all downtown chores done; the Grab costs twice a week shouldn't add up to that much.

In terms of the space and fittings, 56 Surawong is alright; in fact it is quite spacious. As @vinapu said, no safe. No closet either (not that it mattered to me) only hangers. Its front-facing rooms get a bit of noise from the road and Patpong soi 1 (especially when they are dismantling the stalls after midnight) so if you're a light sleeper who wants to go to bed early, ask for a rear-facing room. On one of my two stays, there was a sewer smell coming into my rear-facing room. It was bad each time I entered the room, but disappeared after running the airconditioner for 15 - 20 minutes. I would have insisted on a change of room if I had been staying for more than one night.

Had a similar "encounter" with Buddhist clergy in Sri Lanka several years ago. He was the tour host for visitors to the temple, so we got to talking. Invited to his room after the tour, in which was a desk, a bed and a wall full of shelves and books. Had some non-penetrative fun, but the trouble was that there was no attached bathroom... so could only wipe up and goodbye. It would be far too obvious for a visitor to be taking a shower in the common monastic bathroom!

Two hours to get into the city! Similar to travelling from Jomtien into Bangkok.

That explains Thai journalism. No ned to go out to find the news. Just wait for the authorities (or companies) to send a statement. What about theft by day?

Dragon & Koi comes to mind as possibly the nearest thing to what you are asking for. See It's a host bar, though there's only a fine line between "hosts" and "freelancers". Customers cannot take Dragon & Koi's hosts out while they are on duty, but these boys seem ready and willing to entertain clients by private arrangement on their days off. See also https://shamelessmacktwo.travel.blog/2025/01/09/will-booze-and-english-make-a-winning-formula/