So they are on a year to year lease....?

not very smart to invest/run any business, especially something you're going to pay 5 million baht for...curious to know what the payoffs are to the police or whoever  else has their hand out.

1 hour ago, Keithambrose said:

I went to Circus last night. Didn't recognise any of the staff, no Pao. Poor service, and fairly empty. Pride, across the street much busier.

Oh, Pao is my favourite.

1 hour ago, Patanawet said:

 As I stated, Key money in soi 4 is paid annually and the amount depends on how many shop house widths you rent.
ALSO leases (and key money are ANNUAL and renewable at New Year.

So Rob, the answer to your question is they have 352 days left until they become renewable at New Year AT THE FAMILIES' DISCRETION!

1 hour ago, floridarob said:

So they are on a year to year lease....?

Yes. 'twas ever thus.

 

3 hours ago, Patanawet said:

 As I stated, Key money in soi 4 is paid annually and the amount depends on how many shop house widths you rent.
ALSO leases (and key money are ANNUAL and renewable at New Year.

At least two of the bars have made it for 20-30 years, so they must have  done something right.

1 hour ago, Patanawet said:

At least two of the bars have made it for 20-30 years, so they must have  done something right.

Talking if bars, does anyone  go into the newish wine bar near Circus? seems an odd choice, and mostly empty

2 hours ago, Patanawet said:

At least two of the bars have made it for 20-30 years, so they must have  done something right.

One from Australian family, I believe.

Having read Patanawet's notes above, it reinforces my long-held belief that you're better off in long run investing in real estate in your home country or index funds. Running bars is best left to those who have money to lose.

1 hour ago, Keithambrose said:

Talking if bars, does anyone  go into the newish wine bar near Circus? seems an odd choice, and mostly empty

Agree. There's a wine/jazz bar around the corner on Silom. Does a strong business with young, local crowd and the live jazz isn't bad.

30 minutes ago, reader said:

Agree. There's a wine/jazz bar around the corner on Silom. Does a strong business with young, local crowd and the live jazz isn't bad.

Just looked in to Soi 4, for a drink. Not yet back to sex! Whole place packed, Circus  and Balcony, etc. Wine bar, 2 people! Stretched my legs past Tawan, open, but looked pretty empty. Massage parlours down towards Silom all open, varying no, and quality, of boys. One issue is their bright lights shine into my eyes, making it difficult to see the boys. Chillax looked the most presentable. 

5 hours ago, Patanawet said:

Oh, Pao is my favourite.

Circus packed tonight. A couple more familiar faces, but no Pao.

Just now, Keithambrose said:

Circus packed tonight. A couple more familiar faces, but no Pao.

Pao returns home periodically to visit family.

On 1/14/2025 at 2:28 PM, floridarob said:

He's chubby but not old or crazy obese....Australian guy that used to own a massage shop off of Soi Convent, can't think of the name right now.

He made some money years ago in telecommunications supposedly and Bitcoin in the last few years. Seems to take care of the staff.

I sill don't understand the payments 🤷‍♂️

Cameron, I'm told. My local spy says he hires incompetent managers!

7 hours ago, Patanawet said:

 As I stated, Key money in soi 4 is paid annually and the amount depends on how many shop house widths you rent.
ALSO leases (and key money are ANNUAL and renewable at New Year.

Yes, not 3 years!

53 minutes ago, reader said:

Agree. There's a wine/jazz bar around the corner on Silom. Does a strong business with young, local crowd and the live jazz isn't bad.

Oh, it's where that strange noise, called music by some ,  is coming from  

3 hours ago, Patanawet said:

At least two of the bars have made it for 20-30 years, so they must have  done something right.

Times are different today, the world is a different place,,,,🤷‍♂️

Having been in Hotel management and owning my own restaurants, staying open means paying the bills, some people, even big places like Red Lobster go into quite a bit of debt, even if they are open.

There's not the money people think there is in a single free standing rented location.....if you own the property, it makes a difference. Paying rent with nothing guaranteed beyond 1 year is a very uncertain investment.

I spoke to him about a year ago or so and he was bragging about the sales numbers....which he did about his massage place too, lol

8 minutes ago, floridarob said:

Times are different today, the world is a different place,,,,🤷‍♂️

Having been in Hotel management and owning my own restaurants, staying open means paying the bills, some people, even big places like Red Lobster go into quite a bit of debt, even if they are open.

There's not the money people think there is in a single free standing rented location.....if you own the property, it makes a difference. Paying rent with nothing guaranteed beyond 1 year is a very uncertain investment.

I spoke to him about a year ago or so and he was bragging about the sales numbers....which he did about his massage place too, lol

Indeed, being busy does not mean making a profit! It's all down to the bottom line, so to speak!

On 1/14/2025 at 5:43 PM, Moses said:

At the end of the lease, the key money is returned to the tenant, and the income from the deposit is the rent.

 

 

8 hours ago, Patanawet said:

According to Google:-
It's often demanded in cash, and landlords may not declare it to the tax authorities. 

 

7 hours ago, Patanawet said:

 As I stated, Key money in soi 4 is paid annually 

 

4 hours ago, Patanawet said:

At least two of the bars have made it for 20-30 years

So... if a business has been renting for 20 years, and the key money (as was indicated for Circus) is 900,000 baht a year, and it's paid in cash, then when the lease ends, the landlord is supposed to return 18 million baht, presumably in cash? (The landlord would have kept the interest earned).

If the landlord does not declare to the tax authorities, does he even issue a receipt? How is the return of the accumulated key money at the end of the lease enforceable in a court of law, in the event the landlord balks at returning the 18 million?

4 minutes ago, macaroni21 said:

then when the lease ends, the landlord is supposed to return 18 million baht,

No... it's just a balloon payment to the landlord in order to have a lower rent and they, the owner  don't pay taxes on it apparently from all the threads I read... def a case of TIT is in play, lol

13 minutes ago, Keithambrose said:

Indeed, being busy does not mean making a profit! It's all down to the bottom line, so to speak!

Mr Micawber, David Copperfield:

'Annual income  20 pounds, annual expenditure  nineteen and six, result happiness.  Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure  twenty pounds and six, result misery '

 

4 hours ago, macaroni21 said:

 

 

 

So... if a business has been renting for 20 years, and the key money (as was indicated for Circus) is 900,000 baht a year, and it's paid in cash, then when the lease ends, the landlord is supposed to return 18 million baht, presumably in cash?

Fat chance of that.

5 hours ago, vinapu said:

Oh, it's where that strange noise, called music by some ,  is coming from  

That would be me.

5 minutes ago, reader said:

That would be me.

I know, just checking if you were paying attention

10 hours ago, reader said:

Pao returns home periodically to visit family.

Yes, fair point.

On 1/16/2025 at 9:16 AM, Keithambrose said:

Yes, fair point.

Last night Soi 4 pretty full, but no Pao!

On 1/15/2025 at 9:38 PM, reader said:

Agree. There's a wine/jazz bar around the corner on Silom. Does a strong business with young, local crowd and the live jazz isn't bad.

Re the wine bar next to Circus, last night only 3 groups of customers,  two of whom were drinking beer!