Pope Francis Dies

[KeepItReal]

2 hours ago, a-447 said:

I'm confused.

Why would any pope be paid $32000 per month? 

Don't they take a vow of poverty? How are they meant to spend such a large salary?

 

He wore white and cream colored clothing all the time...I am guessing it was spent on his dry cleaning bill? 😆

[reader]

When an individual from a religious order (Jesuit, in Francis' case) is elected to the papacy, he leaves the jurisdiction of that order.

The beneficiaries of his trust (as @PeterRScited above) flow to charitable causes. reflecting the manner in which he lived his life.

 

[PeterRS]

3 hours ago, unicorn said:

I hope I'm misunderstanding, but I'd assume he'd leave most of his fortune to the poor. That's a healthy salary if you're room and board are already taken care of. 

That's precisely what the funds for the Trust set up by his siser is set up to do. The money is all to be given away.

1 hour ago, a-447 said:

Why would any pope be paid $32000 per month? 

I have absoutely no idea! But we should not forget that he is essentially the Chief Executive of one of the world's largest wealthy organsations and has to work really hard virtually every day. He basically rules over 1.4 billion people. Should he be paid so much less than Mark Zukerberg, Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates or other top businessmen all of whom also have a host of additiona perks? After his retirement when all his Board and lodgings were covered by the Vatican, Benedict XVI was on a pension of US$2,500 per month. He was something of a bon viveur and was frequently seen dining at a nice restaurant close to the Vatican walls.  

How do you compare? The Prime Minster of Singapore who rules over less than 7 million has a salary of US$2.2 million. The Prime Minister of Thailand earns about US$27,000 in a country more than ten times the size - both presumably also have perks. Who is worth what amount?

 

[BjornAgain]

49 minutes ago, PeterRS said:

...How do you compare? The Prime Minster of Singapore who rules over less than 7 million has a salary of US$2.2 million. The Prime Minister of Thailand earns about US$27,000 in a country more than ten times the size - both presumably also have perks. Who is worth what amount?

 

Lee Kuan Yew's philosophy on this, "for the top job you need to pay top dollar, otherwise you'll have corruption".

 

[PeterRS]

33 minutes ago, BjornAgain said:

Lee Kuan Yew's philosophy on this, "for the top job you need to pay top dollar, otherwise you'll have corruption".

That certainly was Lee's view, Additonally he wanted to ensure the very best talent entered government service rather than being wooed away by business corporations. And to a very large extent I believe in Singapore's circumstances he was correct.

But there are virtually no other democracies in the world prepared to accept such a very high level of salaries paid to members of parliament, government ministers and top civil servants. The electorates just would not stand for it. As Lee was to all intents and purposes a dictator - a benevolent one in the view of many - he did what he wanted. He brooked no opposition in parliament and routinely jailed the one or two elected opposition members, often on trumped up charges.

Besides, paying such high salaries did not root out corruption. It still exsts in Singapore  - as witness the mega 1MDB Malaysian financial scandal. Massive amounts of cash were laundered through banks in various countries, including SIngapore. The Monetary Authority of Singapore even went to the extent of withdrawing BSI's status as a merchant bank. Other SIngapore banks involved were the mighty DBS, UBS of Switzerland, Standard Chartered and Falcon PBS. A total of eight other banks were penaised for involvement in the fraudulent 1MDB scheme. More than a dozen individuals were also charged and penalised.

In 2024 a former Minister of Transport, S. Iswaran, was sentenced to a year in jail for obtaining gifts of around US$310,000. As  Minister, he had been receiving a salary and official benefits of US$50,000. Yet he was not charged with corruption. To be corrupt in Singapore the prosecution has to prove that the accused not only accepted gratification, but also that these bribes affected their judgment. Many minor officials have been convicted of what to all intents and purposes is corruption.

[Keithambrose]

1 hour ago, PeterRS said:

That certainly was Lee's view, Additonally he wanted to ensure the very best talent entered government service rather than being wooed away by business corporations. And to a very large extent I believe in Singapore's circumstances he was correct.

But there are virtually no other democracies in the world prepared to accept such a very high level of salaries paid to members of parliament, government ministers and top civil servants. The electorates just would not stand for it. As Lee was to all intents and purposes a dictator - a benevolent one in the view of many - he did what he wanted. He brooked no opposition in parliament and routinely jailed the one or two elected opposition members, often on trumped up charges.

Besides, paying such high salaries did not root out corruption. It still exsts in Singapore  - as witness the mega 1MDB Malaysian financial scandal. Massive amounts of cash were laundered through banks in various countries, including SIngapore. The Monetary Authority of Singapore even went to the extent of withdrawing BSI's status as a merchant bank. Other SIngapore banks involved were the mighty DBS, UBS of Switzerland, Standard Chartered and Falcon PBS. A total of eight other banks were penaised for involvement in the fraudulent 1MDB scheme. More than a dozen individuals were also charged and penalised.

In 2024 a former Minister of Transport, S. Iswaran, was sentenced to a year in jail for obtaining gifts of around US$310,000. As  Minister, he had been receiving a salary and official benefits of US$50,000. Yet he was not charged with corruption. To be corrupt in Singapore the prosecution has to prove that the accused not only accepted gratification, but also that these bribes affected their judgment. Many minor officials have been convicted of what to all intents and purposes is corruption.

For the same reasons, Judges in Singapore  are also highly paid.

[unicorn]

7 hours ago, a-447 said:

I'm confused.

Why would any pope be paid $32000 per month? 

Don't they take a vow of poverty? How are they meant to spend such a large salary?

 

Especially since it's a job for life--not as if they need to save for retirement. I don't think most priests take a vow of poverty. I'm definitely no expert when it comes to Catholicism, but my understanding is that it's monks, nuns, and Jesuits who take a vow of poverty. I may be wrong, though. 

[vinapu]

15 hours ago, unicorn said:

That orange asshole didn't even dress in black at the funeral. 

 

 

as much as I'm not fan of Trump that is least of world' problems with his . He dressed for an occasion ditching even his habitual  red tie and I don't see anything wrong with his dress. 

not long ago we were marveling at idiocy of his VP scolding Zelensky for not showing up in suit for White House visit

[unicorn]

3 hours ago, vinapu said:

as much as I'm not fan of Trump that is least of world' problems with his . He dressed for an occasion ditching even his habitual  red tie and I don't see anything wrong with his dress. 

not long ago we were marveling at idiocy of his VP scolding Zelensky for not showing up in suit for White House visit

Unless directed otherwise, it's considered respectful to wear black at a Catholic funeral--and he was the only one who didn't follow the dress code. I do agree that among the awful things he's done, this is far from the worst. One has to wonder, though: what did he think he had to gain by dressing so disrespectfully?

[PeterRS]

Now he has done it! Just days after saying he would like to be Pope, Trump has posted this AI photo on his social media site. Is there no depth to which this idiot will stoop?

[a-447]

'Pathological megalomania'

 

[Riobard]

The pontifical name shortlist based on historical antecedents, should the smoke emerge orange, consists of Hilarius II, Simplicius II, and Conon II. 

[PeterRS]

8 hours ago, Riobard said:

The pontifical name shortlist based on historical antecedents, should the smoke emerge orange, consists of Hilarius II, Simplicius II, and Conon II. 

Perhaps Risibleus II 

[vinapu]

22 hours ago, PeterRS said:

Now he has done it! Just days after saying he would like to be Pope, Trump has posted this AI photo on his social media site. Is there no depth to which this idiot will stoop?

When first saw that I thought it's just somebody's joke at Trump expense but it looks he posted it on his media which is shocking disrespect, poor taste and it came in very inappropriate moment.

but at end of day would somebody expect any better of THAT leader of free world ?

[unicorn]

21 minutes ago, vinapu said:

... he posted it on his media...

He's always been a career con-artist, but his dementia has him completely whacko at this point. Way off the deep end. But he just spouts off what people want to hear, and it's amazing that so many people actually believe him. People are learning the hard way. I don't know if anyone can get him out of the White House before his term is up (or he dies), but this man has clearly lost whatever sense he had.

[vinapu]

11 hours ago, unicorn said:

 but this man has clearly lost whatever sense he had.

that picture clearly proves you are right

[floridarob]

Here is a more appropriate Trump.....

[PeterRS]

11 hours ago, unicorn said:

this man has clearly lost whatever sense he had.

I'm not sure he ever had much of what we would term sense. As I have written in another thread, his mentor from the time he started in business was the ghastly Roy Cohn. Described as "one of the most reviled men in American history," Cohn was a lawyer of the most notorious kind, a tax cheat and swindler who counted mobsters as well as Presidents among his clients. He was indicted four times for stock-swindling, obstructing justice, perjury, bribery, conspiracy, extortion, blackmail and filing false reports. Three times he was aquitted and the fourth ended in a mistrial "giving him a kind of sneering, sinister sheen of invulnerability."

Trump is following the Cohn playbook virtually to the letter. "Deflect and distract, never give in, never admit fault, lie and attack, lie and attack, publicity no matter what, win no matter what, all underpinned by a deep, prove-me-wrong belief in the power of chaos and fear."

[vinapu]

indeed pic much more fitting

[unicorn]

[PeterRS]

We all know that the Holy Spirit is not what moves the Cardinals as they sit in the glorious creation that is the Sistine Chapel. They meet days in advance, engage in what are essentially political dialogues and encourage others to vote for their favoured candidates. They form cabals! Today CNN provides evidence of a large dossier handed out to cardinals.

Titled “The College of Cardinals Report,” it offers profiles on around 40 papal candidates, including a breakdown on where they stand on topics such as same-sex blessings, ordaining female deacons and the church’s teaching on contraception. The subtext: Choose a pope who will take the church in a different direction to Pope Francis – whose progressive reforms angered some conservatives. 

The project has been led by two Catholic journalists, Edward Pentin, who is from Britain, and Diane Montagna, from the United States – both of whose work appears on traditionalist and conservative Catholic news sites. Montagna has been handing the book to cardinals entering and leaving the pre-conclave meetings, Reuters reported . . .

The report was compiled in association with Sophia Institute Press, a traditionalist-leaning publishing house based in New Hampshire, and Cardinalis, a magazine based in Versailles, France. Sophia Institute Press publishes the radically anti-Francis “Crisis Magazine” and in 2019 published the book “Infiltration,” which claims that in the 19th century, a group of “Modernists and Marxists” hatched a plan to “subvert the Catholic Church from within.” Meanwhile, Cardinalis regularly features articles on prominent conservative cardinals.

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/05/06/world/cardinals-pope-conclave-dossier-candidates-intl

[vinapu]

our speculation may be answered as early as tomorrow

[floridarob]

1 hour ago, vinapu said:

our speculation may be answered as early as tomorrow

I'm sure Trump will say it was rigged when he finds out he wasn't chosen 🙄

[PeterRS]

I often read that Conclaves preferred to elect older Popes. The reason was to ensure that a new Pope would not have time to change the Church in new directions. So anyone in his 60s has a lot going against him. But in the 20th/21st centuries only three Popes have been older than 70 when elected - John XXIII, Benedict XVI and Francis - two reformers and one arch-conservative. Yet the three longest serving Popes - Pius XII, Paul VI and John Paul II - were all appointed in their 60s, one conservative nd two assumed to be reformers although both ended up as conservatives.

Some of the supposed front runners this time around are in their 60s and assumed to be reformers. If appointed, will they change their tunes and stop reforms in their tracks? Interesting to see who will be elected and how He will reign - although at least some of us may not be around to assess that reign.

[Keithambrose]

3 hours ago, floridarob said:

I'm sure Trump will say it was rigged when he finds out he wasn't chosen 🙄

Very good!