Marc K

Dear Old, It's called hormones my dear. They tone down after a while and sex no longer becomes the biggest driving force in one's life. When that happens you can see the world a little bit more clearly, not being clouded by continual lust and not being driven to take amazing risks which we should have avoided in the first place. Travel becomes even more sweet -- you can enjoy a flash of a smile, a sweet embrace, seeing an old friend and catching up, ... well enjoying life as a more multidimensional experience. For me Pattaya is just as exciting as it was 20+ years ago because, besides sex, I enjoy so many other things -- a 30B mango shake from the night market, a walk to the "end of the earth" (Pratumnak), the cooling off after a tropical rainstorm, ... well just so many things which I would have ignored in the past. Luckily we were young enough to enjoy the hedonistic ways of Pattaya's past. I think if I were young now I would feel cheated out of not having been able to experience Pattaya of the past (Adam and Eve bar, Memory bar, old Twilight, ...) so many things that just don't exist any more. SO I don't know if it is because _I_ changed, or because _Pattaya_ has changed, perhaps both?

Vinapu, Thanks for the reminisces. That style of place also reminds me of the venerable Suriwong Cafe of yore, and Malaysia Hotel of yore. I guess that kind of meeting place has now been superseded by the apps alas. 😢

A smile is indeed pivotal. The smile can be read in a myriad of ways -- a) thank goodness I will get relief from my boring job, b) some much needed money might be coming my way, c) this customer seems like an honest, "jai dee" person, or d) I've learned that smiles are good for business. Of course you never quite know which of these meanings to attach to the smile, until you try. Of course one would hope it is meaning (c).

For those of you (us) who fret over the demise of "the gay scene", now you know the answer There is a cohort of visitors who are willing to splash money around as if they are in Kirk Straat or Berlin, paying 5x or more the going rate, and creating the illusion among venue owners and staff that there is another flight arriving tonight with a plane full of overspenders. The OP's post felt as ludicrous to me as would be a post from a first time visitor to Amsterdam offering the trade 30 euros. Be generous, be kind, be human but this kind of outrageous extravagance strikes me as both pretentious and boastful. And this comes from one who lights his cigarettes with 100 euro notes. Not.

Indeed that crazy TR visa application form is ridiculous. My Thai consulate here in Hawaii cannot even issue the TR visa any more, we must send off our packet to Los Angeles. It used to be a simple matter to get a tourist visa, no more. Why does Thailand make it so difficult for visitors and then complain about the smaller numbers of visitors??

Having just returned home from a few months in Pattaya, and yes it was a great visit!, I had kept asking myself "where are the young (gay) people?" Every time I visit Thailand, the crowd at (gay) spas, bars, beaches, hotels... seems to get older and older. As for (gay) information, I remember the nostalgic days when I would rush to the bookstore to buy the just-released, shiny new edition of "Spartacus", or perhaps the Damon Guide -- the two most authoritative listings of gay venues and business. The book series "Men of Thailand" had the most curated and accurate information about the gay scene in Thailand. Of course those books ceased publication with the advent of the Internet era -- with utopia-asia and Dreaded Ned and... becoming the reference reading rooms of choice. The point is that those media helped direct us to gay ghettos and places to meet gay friends and places for a little "hedonistic fun" as well, where we could feel comfortable and (mostly) at ease. And as for these boards, I too have noticed the dramatic decline in new posts on sawatdee (and some other boards) and do wonder whether, when those of us of a certain age stop posting, there will be interest in continuing the boards -- thanks to the moderators for amazing work!

That Bangkok Post article (mentioned above) is really interesting reading. It helps me understand why when my Isaan friends return from their province they invariably have no money left. One thing I will never understand is how to tell the difference between a genuine request for needed funds, from when I am being used as an ATM. Any suggestions?

I've never figured out why bars continue to blast their music, to a level which make conversation with one's friends or betrothed nearly impossible. Painful to listen to, and dangerous to one's hearing. This music is supposed to ENTICE people into their bar? I would imagine that, on balance, it does just the opposite.

"Give me a brown toned Isan guy any day." Long live Isaan!

Congrats, that's great! And your last sentence is the key. Not just drinking friends, or traveling friends, or companions, or sex-friends, or gabbing friends, but friends you can count on. And ask yourself how you can be counted on by others, too.

They don't call it "the inscrutable orient" for nothing, Peter. You will never know what calculation she made in not answering you. As an amateur (very amateur!) psychologist, the best I have ever been able to comprehend the thought patterns is to come to the revelation (?) that Thais compartmentalize their lives (read, thoughts) in very different ways than we do. What they are confronted with doesn't matter as long as they are not forced to confront it head on. I guess my hypothesis doesn't really help unravel your mystery, but there it is nonetheless. Maybe others, perhaps biracial and bi-cultural folks, can understand things better?

What we need is some innovation, some imagination, some originality = some personalization which would attract attention. And another novel concept, how about sharing boys? You know when I go to Tukcom and one booth doesn't have what I need, they go to another booth to get it. Now some of you might like barhopping (I don't), but it is becoming prohibitively expensive to visit all 20(?) JC bars. And you still might not end up with what you want. Just saying... any bar owners out there listening?

Ok, call me sour if you like, but I think the term "Gay Community" is an oxymoron. Perhaps it is a remnant from earlier generations when our tribe had to hide and fear and fret, I don't know. We don't take very good care of "our kind" whether they be the elderly, the disabled, the dispossessed or despairing. Ask yourself the number of gay FRIENDS you actually have. For me I can count them on one hand, with a few fingers to spare. Buddies, many. Sexmates, who counts? Friends, well that's a different matter isn't it.

Thanks to Wise for this "wise" advice, indeed. Yes, I had been vigilant against DCC attempts in the past, but the sneaky addition of a new, last-minute screen in the process did catch me this time. And yes, Mavica, $40 does mean something to me -- a nice massage perhaps? And your willingness to condone this kind of shady business practice aimed at the distracted tourist (us) to weasel out more money from us just never ceases to amaze me. Yes, it will not happen again, and, yes, I will NOT use "yellow bank" ever again even though I had been a faithful customer for at least a decade! The only thing I can do is take my business elsewhere, and warn others to be always on guard for sly practices like this.

Really? Gosh it is pretty easy to spot the fakers on the apps. Yes there are some, but they are relatively easy to avoid. At least that has been my experience. Call me cheap if you like but I would rather my money go to the workers themselves rather than to the bar owners who (IMHO) don't offer much value (anymore).

Mr London, you D.O.M! I am shocked. 555

Indeed Mr London there was a time and place for sitdown bars but it sure seems that now that time has past given the other avenues available. So I wonder why there are still so many businesses trying to promote the old method? Many of the massage houses (at least in Bangkok) are changing, now sending out a daily "menu" of available "treats" on Line, but bars seem stuck in their old ways. Why?

Like you Bill I have never quite understood the attraction of the Bars in the Complex. Especially in the low-season, it seems rather like a waste of time, and money. It seems boys are more interested in playing with their phones than they are playing with customers.

I can see the logic of your argument, Paul, but with long-stays in Thailand I wouldn't really want to bring that kind of cash into the Kingom. I've relied on "honest" ATMs )who have given quite reasonable exchange rates, perhaps similar to Super Rich?) and have always gotten my 220B ATM fees refunded by my card holder, so it worked quite well for me until now. Now I learned I have to be much more careful.

It is a ripoff because the conversion rate concession is way too big (FIVE PERCENT) and it was done in a very sneaky way with a final screen which was inserted into the process (at least at "yellow bank" that was the case). AND the buttons on the screen make it way more likely you are going to hit ACCEPT. In fact I don't even remember if there was a DECLINE button but I assume there was. Still sneaky shit in my book. Just a warning to others to be careful!

Good for Rob. That type of sneaky "theft" really needs to be called out! As for me, I was withdrawing quite a lot of money (30k) and I didn't want to dawdle near the ATM for obvious security concerns, and I was not expecting that stealth screen, so I rushed, which cost me dearly alas.

You are right, vinapu, the bank's conversion rate is always lower, but in this case I lost FIVE PERCENT. That's a huge "commission" to take. And it does it by a very sneakily designed last-moment screen in the withdrawal process. Of course I will never make that mistake again, it cost me 40+ bucks. Hard lesson.

"Yellow Bank" is Krung Sri bank. Each bank in Thailand seems to have a marketing "color". Yes, it most definitely is a real physical bank, one of the largest in the Kingdom.

I withdrew 30,000. And yes 5% of that is >$40. And no, this is the first time this screen appeared at the "yellow bank" ATM which I have been using for years. So get your facts straight, ok?

Haha I have another Phuket story: My BH and I were in Patong and wanted a foot massage. We go to this (mixed) massage place and duly pay for a foot massage when this buxom woman is haphazardly assigned to my BH. The woman, doing a foot massage mind you, somehow managed to get her tits on his face, hoping I'm sure for a big tip! Instead I see him turning green and I thought he was going to puke, haha. We still joke about the "Phuket Massage" years later! Oh my.