Boytoy 2.0 - Reimagining the boytoy site

[TotallyOz]

We have had a lot of discussion recently in the forums about the site. There are things we do well and things we don't do so well.  To be honest, after the Rentboy arrest, we tried our best to keep a low profile.  We thought this was the best course of action even though we could have gotten more traffic back then.

We have now decided that we will go for a totally free site with no paid upgrades at all.  This will stop any exchange of money for using the site. The new process will still have photos and videos available to supporting members but those will be for escorts who post 5 or more photos and videos and for clients who post in the forum or who review escorts. 

We will also start encouraging more reviews and escorts to join the site.

The programmers will start this week to remove all paid upgrades on the site for all members. 

As we want this site to be a great community, we ask what suggestions you have for the site. What would you like to see? What do we need to add to make it better for escorts and for clients?

There are things we really failed at and we will try to improve upon those but often times, we can't see our own issues. However, we are open to suggestions!

 

[citylaw1]

I think that this is a great idea.  In the old days at the other site, it seems like escorts participated in the forums more regularly.  Perhaps reach out to the Rentmen guys, and show them how a site like this can significantly increase their bookings?  You might already do this?

Back in the days the posters were younger (myself included) and seemed to hire more.  I'm not sure how to attract a younger demographic, or if it's even possible, but I started participating on these sites when I was 32. 

 

[Lucky]

Good luck, Oz. I know that your intentions are good. Young people rarely hire. They usually don't need to, or can't afford it if they do. So it's the young escorts who can bring youth to these boards.

I'd give them free advertising and possible assistance with their pictures. I think, the more escorts, the more posters.

 

Why not reward those who post interesting- and accurate- reviews? They could be made eligible for a raffle to win a prize, such as dinner with an escort. (They'd have to pay for any extras!) Or they could win signed pictures of hot porn stars, a Boytoy pass for a free drink in Bangkok- whatever rewards wouldn't cost the site an arm and a leg. I am sure that everyone has an idea.

 

Finally, though, the message boards need interesting posts, conversations, and leaders. Some, like Tomcal, know how to brighten a bar. Are there those who know how to brighten a message board? Let's seek them out.

 

And, I hate to say it, but something has to be done to encourage members to be on their best behavior. People can muzzle themselves, you know, but some might need assistance.

[Guest rvwnsd]

Oz, you might want to start by asking yourself what image you want to portray and then ask yourself whether the site design portrays that image. IMHO, the background images need to be replaced. To me, images of money being tossed, an older gentleman in a tuxedo, and lighting a c-note with a cigar look somewhat creepy and cheesy. They also do not speak to a younger, hipper demographic. The site could easily have an upscale feel if you simply removed the images. Frankly, one of the reasons I don't participate here because the look-and-feel does not speak to me.

As Lucky pointed out, doing more to encourage a sense of manners and decorum would go a long way toward generating new membership and more commentary. This doesn't need to turn into 1970's-era Pravda, but posting a few simple guidelines on the landing page might trigger something in some folks and make them mind their manners. A discussion group I co-facilitate has a script that gets read at the start of every meeting. We change it up every few months so it does not get stale. We don't say "If you don't follow these rules you will be asked to leave," but we do ask members to follow the guidelines. When someone strays, we politely remind them that they need to change their behavior. That's not to say that we didn't escort a now-former member out the door when he started a name-calling tirade against another member or we didn't help someone get a restraining order against a member who was stalking him, but 99.9% of the time a gentle reminder is sufficient. You might want to consider these two courses of action.

Lastly, it might be helpful to coach some of the more verbose, stream-of-consciousness members on the fine art of getting to the point. There's nothing wrong with a long post (like this one). However, verbal diarrhea needs to be treated with verbal imodium. Not sure exactly how to do that, but I'll bet some of us could put our heads together and figure out a way. If i ever see verbal imodium at Walgreens you will be the first person I notify.

Thanks for asking for feedback. I hope you appreciate hearing it as much as I appreciate your seeking it out.

[RockHardNYC]

2 hours ago, Lucky said:

Young people rarely hire. They usually don't need to, or can't afford it if they do. So it's the young escorts who can bring youth to these boards.

I totally agree with this analysis. Young escorts are the only way to get that fresh, optimistic breath of fresh air. Many of us enjoy our memories of yesteryear and don't look upon youth as a reminder of our failures or missed opportunities. Some of us aren't interested in sex with the younger male, but a lot of us enjoy engaging with a young mind in the delightful art of communication. Many young men love to be in the company of smart, fun, older men. But today's kids are very savvy. I doubt they'd have much patience for obnoxious, hateful trolls.

[Suckrates]

 

Getting back to Oz original request for this thread,  I dont agree that site feuds and battles deter people.  The ones that dont like it put those participants on ignore and carry on.  However, as it being a deterrent to young escorts I also dont agree.  Some of those have said that they dont find enough business on these sites to warrant the investment of their time.  We have all seen recently how escorts can be big drama queens just like the rest of us, and sling mud like the best of them.  So back to the original question:  what will attract new participation?   And the answer is who knows.  OZ should maintain a site that is true to his vision, and people will either embrace it and take what they can from it, or not.   Its pretty much all a gamble, there are no promises.  

The vibe of this site is youth oriented, with older men seeking out younger.  Perhaps there are not enough reviews of younger escorts posted ?  Perhaps there are not enough topics that speak to the concerns of the older client and younger hire ?

There are alot of people that pass thru this site daily, yet noone posts anything. Perhaps they ARE getting what they came for and dont feel a need to participate ?   All sites have peaks and valleys, and I seriously have to thank Rockhard for coming back and putting a spark back in this site.  While he and I will never be friends nor friendly, he does give this site the shot in the arm it needs, and I do enjoy sparring with him.  And just like the spectators who gathered to watch the gladiators face off in the Roman Coliseum, there are many members sitting on the sideline waiting to see how this all plays out.   

[RockHardNYC]

13 hours ago, TotallyOz said:

We have now decided that we will go for a totally free site with no paid upgrades at all.

From a business perspective, I'm disappointed to hear this. Not because I'm a fan of Spam solicitations (I'm not), but because I'm definitely in favor of folks making money from dedicated, hard work.

It seems from the research I've done on forum life, it's very difficult to create a vibrant, fun, engaging place without some way to afford a path towards serious growth. E-commerce can be that path.

Bandwidth costs money: The more people who visit, the more bandwidth you have to pay for.

Great UI costs money: If you want to be a cut above the software that is available for free or on the cheap, you may want to consider a custom software program, unlike this one, that is free of bugs and glitches. Good code writers are not cheap. Good IT professionals are not cheap, either. Competent hosting, especially if you want your servers in a foreign country are not easy or cheap.

Great Style and Design costs money: If you want your site to be as attractive to gay men as the hottest selling underwear ads (which it should be), it costs serious money.

And last but not least: Moderation. If you want dedicated, 24/7, quality moderation, it rarely comes in the form of volunteer work, provided by a few retired queens who have no experience in Human Resources or managing personalities. I can promise you this: if you don't figure out a way to discourage troll-speak, none of your forum dreams will come true.

Building and running a site like this, and doing it well, is time-consuming work. IMO, no one should have to do the work for free. None of us should be relying on the generosity of some owner who feels like doing this as a hobby project. One day the site is here, the day after his death, the site is gone. The days of the Hooboy incentive are LONG GONE. The internet of tomorrow almost requires some aspect of e-commerce to thrive.

As I learn more about the site and this glitchy software, I'll be happy to offer other suggestions. I'm still trying to figure out why my Profile Page has an "About Me" link but others don't. Perhaps one can turn this off. I haven't found that feature yet. But I'm loving how easy it is to upload some of my favorite photos from my archives.

[citylaw1]

21 hours ago, Lucky said:

Good luck, Oz. I know that your intentions are good. Young people rarely hire. They usually don't need to, or can't afford it if they do. So it's the young escorts who can bring youth to these boards.

 

 

I'm not sure how true this is.  I started hiring at 29, mainly because I was closeted and in a professional environment.  Hooboy's site and Campus Escorts were invaluable to me at the time.  At 46, I don't hire as often, mainly due to the disappearance of the agencies, and the online investigation required before hiring from the sites.  When I do hire, escorts often tell me that they receive quite a few younger clients, with the majority, of course, being my age or older. 

Any way that we can attract escorts as posters here will help both parties.  Advertising on Grindr might be a good way to attract younger posters? 

[TotallyOz]

Thank you all for your suggestions so far.  Please keep them coming.  As this topic is very important to the future of the site, all not OP posts will be moved elsewhere.

[citylaw1]

11 minutes ago, RockHardNYC said:

Here's the problem: The TROLL behavior never ends until someone in authority ends it. Most TROLLS are addicted to TROLL behavior, and the owner of this site seems to enjoy these antics.

If Oz truly wants to improve his board and attract new participants, he's going to have to recognize and strongly consider the current success of the "other site" and do something similar in execution. Given what I've read so far, I'm not holding my breath, but I'm hopeful.

 

 

Yes, the Troll behavior is detrimental.  The original Hooboy site was great, especially for the time, and Daddy's suffers from poor moderation and favoritism to the point where I question reviews there, where I once rarely did.  This site stands a chance to be much better, in that Oz at least welcomes input, where Daddy begs for cash, and coddles ill fitted moderators. 

I come and go from here mainly because I grow bored.  We do, however, stand a chance at recruiting posters from Daddy's, and growing the participation from elsewhere as well.  Moderation and participation are key. 

[RockHardNYC]

19 hours ago, RockHardNYC said:

I'm still trying to figure out why my Profile Page has an "About Me" link but others don't. Perhaps one can turn this off. I haven't found that feature yet.

Duh. If you don't type any text or upload any files in the "About Me" section of Edit Profile, the "About Me" page disappears from your profile page. Fucking coders call that shit "intuitive." (Kiss my ass.)

I guess the members whose profiles I looked at, all decided not to add any additional information about themselves. I suppose there are a lot of people who have no need or desire to utilize any number of features that come with the forum's software. Or, if there was a user-friendly How-to video, members might be a little more interested or committed, especially if the software trainer in the video was Phil Affleck:

I'm sure someone could find a nude, young gay to do this very important job.

[Suckrates]

 

I must say that Mr RH does post some hot, exciting pics.  Now, if only they could come without his "sound bites", it would be Heaven. 

[RockHardNYC]

7 hours ago, citylaw1 said:

The original Hooboy site was great, especially for the time

The review portion of the Hooboy site was great, way ahead of its time. I remember reading it almost every day to see who was "Coverboy." It's there I discovered Benjamin Nicholas and fell in lust. It's no secret, I have a thing for handsome, healthy, lean blonds who possess a sexy, adorable, delicious ass.

When I first visited Hooboy's Message Center, I was horrified. The place SCREAMED of hate. It took me many years before I acquired the gumption to join, and the only reason I joined was to fight back the vitriol that was being hurled at Benjamin Nicholas on an almost daily basis. Then my agenda slowly changed.

7 hours ago, citylaw1 said:

Daddy's suffers from poor moderation and favoritism to the point where I question reviews there, where I once rarely did.

He shuts down potential shitstorms much sooner than he ever did. He gives warnings to members when their treading too close to his line. After a fair amount of time and tolerance, he doesn't hesitate to put someone on Time Out. If you accumulate too many TOs, he doesn't hesitate to ban. He currently will ban an escort if the escort pushes him over his limit. I think all of this is progress, and it makes his forum a much more civil and enjoyable read.

On the other hand, he has always played favorites, and I'm confident that spills over to the review site.

I've done the research, and I know the behind-the-scenes on review "verification." Here's the ugly truth: Without exposing the identity of the customer, it's very difficult to verify a review. Too many customers want to remain anonymous, and they don't want the escort to remember or figure out which customer wrote the review, especially if the review is critical in any way.

So I'm a bit dubious about any "service" review section, similar to how I feel about Yelp. The only way to make it work within reason is to promote the writing of reviews among customers in order to accumulate as many reviews as you can. The more the merrier. After a buildup, the process becomes a percentages game that benefits everyone.

However, if escorts don't love your website, if they don't feel they'll be treated fairly by the owner and/or its members, if they feel the owner enjoys troll-speech too much, the escort is very unlikely to support your effort and ask customers to write reviews for your site. This is a delicate dance of trust and more trust. Trust requires work. You simply can't phone it in from a vacation spot. Again, actions speak much louder than any words in the TOS or COMITY AGREEMENT.

[Guest Larstrup]

One suggestion which I shall make is to remove from the forums (or redirect somewhere else within the site) the gay city guide business listings. They are horribly outdated with many establishments within most guides out of business. The required maintenance and up-keep of such information is obviously labor-intensive and if not routinely performed, presents irrelevant, archaic and misleading information to the potential reader/traveler. Additionally, it makes scrolling thru the forums tedious at best if on a mobile device.

 

 

 

[MsGuy]

On the other hand, Larstrup, the city guide serves as a nice buffer between the Sandbox and the rest of the forum.

The more tedious the scroll, then better.

[Guest Larstrup]

3 hours ago, MsGuy said:

On the other hand, Larstrup, the city guide serves as a nice buffer between the Sandbox and the rest of the forum.

The more tedious the scroll, then better.

Indisputably true! But I would think that the programmers would have the technology to make the sandbox invisible (who knows, it might be back right now for all we know) and a special decoder ring could be issued to registered members to reveal it's presence and log-in for those who chose to view a more offensive word salad.

My suggestion was based upon when I login from iPhone 6 (a non-combustible device by the way) or iPad, I typically scroll down below the sandbox to view recent topics first. On a smaller device such as iPhone 6 the scroll becomes more user-unfriendly due to the aforementioned city guides. The iPad, not so much, but still.

While outdated information might be somewhat useful in it's historical and vintage form, most people today are looking for current and relevant information to utilize in their lives. Most won't waste their time if they know they can find it elsewhere.

 

 

 

 

[Lucky]

On 9/9/2016 at 7:43 AM, Larstrup said:

One suggestion which I shall make is to remove from the forums (or redirect somewhere else within the site) the gay city guide business listings. They are horribly outdated with many establishments within most guides out of business. The required maintenance and up-keep of such information is obviously labor-intensive and if not routinely performed, presents irrelevant, archaic and misleading information to the potential reader/traveler. Additionally, it makes scrolling thru the forums tedious at best if on a mobile device.

 

 

 

This thread started out so hopefully. But what is the status of it now? Any changes on the horizon?

The site does need  fresh eyes. I agree with Larstrup's suggestion on the travel guides.

Thanks to the guys who are keeping the site going. You know who you are!

[Guest larryoz]

Instead of the city guides have forums for country/continent specific queries. This way people in europe can discuss bars or clubs and if you are visiting you can find their discussion or ask you question to a group of people who will find your question and know an answer.

[Guest larryoz]

On 9/5/2016 at 3:08 AM, rvwnsd said:

Oz, you might want to start by asking yourself what image you want to portray and then ask yourself whether the site design portrays that image. IMHO, the background images need to be replaced. To me, images of money being tossed, an older gentleman in a tuxedo, and lighting a c-note with a cigar look somewhat creepy and cheesy. They also do not speak to a younger, hipper demographic. The site could easily have an upscale feel if you simply removed the images. Frankly, one of the reasons I don't participate here because the look-and-feel does not speak to me.

I totally agree that the current graphics are cheesy. Getting rid of the images altogether is a great option providing a fresh clean look that will highlight the content.

[Guest bobbalino]

UNLESS bow tie is code for boy toy?? Sound similar. As in "I am going to treat myself to a new bow tie, I will fasten it behind me though it may feel a little tight at first, then pull at the two ends to make it right, though it might not be entirely straight."

[AdamSmith]

I will only say that I hate change in any IT product I use. 

I want everything on my computer screen to look the way it does today, until I pass to my heavenly (or otherwise) rest.

All my energies for managing and absorbing change are already used up by keeping my little bizness alive. For that reason, I hold with the Earl of Cambridge who said:

"Any change, of any kind, in any thing, is to be deplored."

[Guest Larstrup]

 

[Guest Larstrup]

4 hours ago, AdamSmith said:

I will only say that I hate change in any IT product I use. 

I want everything on my computer screen to look the way it does today, until I pass to my heavenly (or otherwise) rest.

All my energies for managing and absorbing change are already used up by keeping my little bizness alive. For that reason, I hold with the Earl of Cambridge who said:

"Any change, of any kind, in any thing, is to be deplored."

[Guest larryoz]

I don't like change either. Mostly because I no longer understand what to do. That is why communicating about change is so important. 

 

however the changes we are talking about here are mostly cosmetic and not the general functional stuff.

[TotallyOz]

Thank you for all the suggestions.  Many new changes coming.  Some may pop up with surprise and delight but others may cause you to say WTF. But, in the end, we are going to go for clean and simple and easy to access on all devices.