For any of you who thought it might be a neat idea to visit a Brazilian prison...

[SolaceSoul]

In case some posters here, after reading some recent posts about Latin American prison sex trips, might be thinking, “gee, maybe someone can set up a visit to a Brazilian prison so I can get a good romp!” You might want to rethink that idea!

(Note: it’s really not a good idea in any LATAM jail / prison, anyway — in case you don’t get sarcasm).

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brazil-prison-riot-dozens-dead-and-16-decapitated-alatmira-prison-para-state-2019-07-30/?ftag=CNM-00-10aag7e

 

[tassojunior]

Prison sex trips?

[SolaceSoul]

2 minutes ago, tassojunior said:

Prison sex trips?

It was a topic here a few months ago. The trips were in the DR. Dominican prisons are no safer than Brazilian prisons, and are equally as corrupt and both are run by organized crime / gangs. 

[pauleiro]

I saw that on Brazilian TV this morning. And there was another event this year in another prison with 55 persons dead ! 

[torogen]

8 hours ago, tassojunior said:

Prison sex trips?

Yeah. Bizarre, right? The idea was you could pay a guard to go in and fuck the inmates...or, get fucked by the inmates, more likely.

 

[Kevie770]

10 hours ago, SolaceSoul said:

(Note: it’s really not a good idea in any LATAM jail / prison, anyway — in case you don’t get sarcasm

That was me! Lol but like you said before it depends on how much risk you are willing to take!! I’m sure countless men have done it in DR without issue.  Also, I’ve read thousands of post on this forum, and the things you have to do in Rio to remain safe are nothing like the standard in DR! Rules like not staying at the beach after dark or not going to the ATM at night are not things you have to worry about in Santo Domingo or DR as a whole.  Maybe my perspective is so different because I’m not older or a white man.. but idk 

Edited July 30, 2019 by Kevie770

[SolaceSoul]

2 hours ago, Kevie770 said:

... the things you have to do in Rio to remain safe are nothing like the standard in DR! Rules like not staying at the beach after dark or not going to the ATM at night are not things you have to worry about in Santo Domingo or DR as a whole.  Maybe my perspective is so different because I’m not older or a white man.. but idk 

Um, shots fired?  

Not a white guy here and not yet 50. Does that count?

I have been going to both the DR and Brazil regularly for over a decade. I have plenty of friends and colleagues in both places and have stayed in both for extended periods of time — and I have never heard or seen any discussions about being at the beaches in the DR after dark. If you’re staying in Santo Domingo, you’re about 30 minutes from the closest well-attended beach (Boca Chica). The one off El Malecon? My guess would be that cruising that park after dark would be risky. Maybe @paborn could provide more insight on that? My understanding is that any unattended beach (meaning not well-traveled, no vendors) after dark would be high risk. Of course, that does NOT include resort beaches — as they are privatized and monitored. Honestly, if that’s the case, then in that respect, DR beaches and Rio beaches share similar night risks.

Regarding ATMs at night in the DR, if you’re referring to Santo Domingo, and more specifically, Zona Colonial, at night, after the stores like the supermarket on the Condé close, there’s only one nearby ATM that remains open — and that’s the one at the bank on the west side of Independence Park, which stays open 24/7 and usually has a security guard. That’s the only reason it is safe to go there. ATMs in Rio — if you find a 24 Horas one, like the ones in Metro stations — are equally as safe. The one thing that ATMs in both countries have is similar risk of use. I would never suggest either is completely safe, as there is risk in both. 

Quite frankly, venturing out on foot too far outside of certain well-traveled, well-lit, families, common areas in Santo Domingo after dark is a fool’s errand — just as it is in Rio. 

Your skin complexion may provide you with a bit more protection to venture outside those boundaries, but only so much, if you don’t speak the language fluently, you look out of place (gringos can easily be spotted), and you’re not there with known residents. Zona Colonial is pretty much known as a landing spot for tourists and expats, but even parts within it can be dicey and risky. 

[Kevie770]

Lol! I didn't call you old I said ”older,” and at almost 50 you're 20 years my senior so older.  From reading your post your prospective of DR and Santo Domingo is much different than mine. I've been traveling to DR for about nine years, and I go around twice a year.  I’ve been to every corner of the entire island, and I’ve been on both private and public beaches at night, and I’ve NEVER had an issue or felt unsafe.  As far as what you said about ATMs in the colonial zone, I would not know.  I have not stayed in the CZ in many years, and generally, I only go there every other day or so to mingle at Pacos.  My air B&Bs have been all across the city, and my last one was as far north as the botanical gardens.  I’ve walked to the ATM from my apartment in the early hours of the morning without issue.  I lived in the Summer Hill neighborhood of Atlanta in the late 2000s, and it was just as sketch if not more than anywhere I’ve been to in DR lol. I do however see if you are an older “nonblack” you might be at higher risk because you look like a target just like you look like a target in Summer Hill lol. 

Edited July 31, 2019 by Kevie770

[SolaceSoul]

3 hours ago, Kevie770 said:

I do however see if you are an older “nonblack” you might be at higher risk because you look like a target just like you look like a target in Summer Hill lol. 

My observations would be that even a younger (or younger-appearing) gringo would not be safe roaming around alone at night in certain areas of the Santo Domingo and the DR. I think what you’re suggesting might be poor advice for the less well-traveled. 

There are areas in SD like Naco that are like the Dominican Beverly Hills. There are also plenty other areas, especially in SD Este, where going alone and roaming around at night would be AYOR. Again, this is NOT appropriate advice to dispense to readers who are unfamiliar with the city or the island. 

I would agree that a black man of any age walking around at night in a predominantly black neighborhood south of Grant Park in Atlanta, during pre-gentrification, would not be very problematic at all. However, most readers here aren’t black men in their late 20s (or aren’t even purporting to be). So, their levels of risk — whether real or perceived — would be different from yours. After all, there are posters here who think it’s a grand idea to dress like a New England preppy and flash $5000 watches in the Colonial Zone! You have stated in the past that the rewards of the prison sex trips for you outweighed the risks, and that you also take the risk to get cocaine from locals in foreign countries — so clearly, your levels of risk-taking might be higher than the average reader or traveler here. 

Just to let you know, even my Dominicano amigos who roll around the city carry pistols for protection. 

BTW, there is a good reason that those “loud black queens” at Pacos that you discussed in earlier posts are always in a gaggle together. It’s because, even for them, there is safety in numbers. For those of us who often travel solo, we may need to be more circumspect. 

This isn’t meant to be a personal attack on you at all, in spite of how you may receive it. It’s that, as you said, we clearly have different perspectives and assessments of risk.

I’d love to hear the perspective of someone like @paborn on this. 

 

[paborn]

Lord, so much. First, while I have been to Rio it was only once. When I take long trips I prefer Bangkok to which I have been 32 times.  

I will be celebrating my 70th this December in Santo Domingo. I go to the the island, at least, 4 times a year and have done so for 35 years. I once started counting trips and stopped at 130, having grown bored  with the idea . Still, I do not claim expertise just experience.

I started going to Santo. Domingo when El Conde was the Main Street in town. If you can imagine a narrow colonial street filled with cars, bumper to bumper.. as a Main Street.All those malls and highways and big avenues are new.  In those days there were two operating male whore house hotels in the Colonial zone. The boys were self employed but were always there. Self contained restaurant, bar. I enjoyed that world until the places were closed down by the bitter, rabidly homophobic old queen of a Cardinal who has recently been, reportedly, forced to retire by the Pope. He was/is a horror of bigotry.

All the talk about where one has stayed, the color of one's skin, matters of age, walking alone are not factual components of good advice regarding Santo Domingo.  Atlanta? Sure, Atlanta has a black community. As I've written here before Dominicans consider themselves Spanish in a mixed race society. Discrimination may come from your skin but danger is a matter of what you have and what someone needs. Thinking that you are in an Atlanta like society is foolish and does not reflect Dominican reality; your skin color has nothing to do with safety. The minimum monthly wage is around $200 ( depending on size of employer ) no one really has a true unemployment rate and typical person is working 12 hour shifts. Poverty is very real my boyfriend is white and very poor.  Those who give this advice are falling for the old logical fallacy called, " results bias". Because you have not been robbed, attacked, knifed - does not mean the streets are safe. ANY DOMINICAN can tell you they are not.

Solacesoul is quite right. The only safe ATM in the colonial Zone , after the markets close, is the bank across from Independence park. It's indoor with a guard. To think otherwise is to fly in the face of crime statistics and the obvious need for special police in the Colonial Zone. They are better trained and better paid so they are less corrupt. When the main hustler bar "friends" was open drivers like the infamous but trustworthy Freddy, were always outside BECAUSE there were too many muggings at the end of the street right in the zone. All of us came by taxi or walked in groups - white black - Asian?? Does not matter - relative safety is in numbers.

There is only one beach in the capital called Guibia. It was developed for the common people and is well patrolled but it is not a tourist place. Why anyone would be at Boca Chica late at night is beyond me. If you're safe it is because no one is there.

Safety is relative, you are safer in the Colonial zone than most places but parks, side streets, places ill light and without people moving about????? No, it is not safe and any Dominican would tell you this.

But, God yes, you can be safe you can exercise common sense but if you act foolish you might well contribute to the crime statistics . Most tourists are safe because reasonable people do exercise common sense precautions. I mean no offense Kevin 770 but I suspect you do too. Even if you bluster a bit about it - even black tourist's travel in groups more often than not.

I remember a group from NYC who always came down, always rented a big van and travelled around - with their boys. One night, as every night, they pulled up to friends bar ( might have been Freddy's or Phoenix the names changed over the years ) and someone with a poor sense of propriety called out to the owner, Lawrence, "the African Queen has docked..." He was heard and the answering shout was, " damn right! My Mama raised no fool"

I rush to add that this sense of safety is not reserved to black tourists - I sometimes travel with  NYC friend who is Venezuelan by heritage - as white as I - who insists he is safer because he "looks Hispanic" - I always suggest he stay out of dark places so the muggers can see...........

Edited July 31, 2019 by Paborn1340

[Kevie770]

Both of your point of views are interesting.  I agree with points and disagree, but our perspectives are so different; there is no use to me trying to explain further.  But to clarify one point, when I spend a few days in Boca Chica I like to walk to the beach at night to smoke a little weed (Think kiss scene from Moonlight).  That’s the only reason I’m at the beach at night lol! 

Edited August 1, 2019 by Kevie770

[axiom2001]

Men, from this juncture- "agree to disagree" and move onward!  The previous discussion could go on and on and on, and NObODY will change his mind as to "safety" as it exists in both Santo Domingo and other places in the DR as well as in Rio de janeiro.

[Riobard]

Where was the CBS headline editor? Decapitated is dead. Should be "16 decapitated, death toll 73 (or 57?)"

Prison visit-wise, beware losing your mind over your little head. 

[SolaceSoul]

40 minutes ago, Riobard said:

Where was the CBS headline editor? Decapitated is dead. Should be "16 decapitated, death toll 73 (or 57?)"

Prison visit-wise, beware losing your mind over your little head. 

It’s 57 total dead, and 16 of those dead were decapitated. Perhaps this will clear it up for you. 

“At least 57 prisoners were killed by other inmates during clashes between organized crime groups in the Altamira prison in northern Brazil Monday with 16 of the victims being decapitated, according to prison officials.”

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1035991

 

[Riobard]

Yeah, I had extrapolated that ... just being editorially cranky. LOL. 

[paborn]

On 8/1/2019 at 9:19 PM, axiom2001 said:

Men, from this juncture- "agree to disagree" and move onward!  The previous discussion could go on and on and on, and NObODY will change his mind as to "safety" as it exists in both Santo Domingo and other places in the DR as well as in Rio de janeiro.

Sorry, but newbies to this site and to Santo Domingo are better off to be safe than to follow really poor advice.

[Riobard]

Love Paborn's example of fallacy in evaluation, the results bias, aka outcome bias. 

Mentally, many people approach good and bad outcome probabilities quite differently in terms of risk aversion and risk taking. 

Let's say the chance of scoring nicely (A) on El Conde any one set time, a "safe" evening hour,  is 1% (.01) ... and equal to the chance of a bad encounter (B) wandering the comparatively deserted malecon beach at the witching hour. Not to confuse the two agendas. It is just a hypothetical. And contradicts the track record of more than a few here. 

Then apply a frequency variable to the 99:1 binary, let's say arbitrarily 50 ventures of each scenario over 8 weeks. 

Consecutive (A) failures (.99 per event) spur further attempts with increasing confidence that ill fortune has a shelf life and the .01 will not prevail but will bend towards gainful success with time and patience. 

Consecutive (B) escapes, in contrast, spur increasing confidence that the .01 will prevail and that one will emerge from one's whoring unscathed in spite of stacking the deck in the direction of a run-in. 

Age, race, colour blind. 

In actuality, the likelihood of a good (A) outcome or a bad (B) outcome is the same, 39% over 50 events. The "when" of 50 days will vary. This example is just the law of one. 

A reset for the (A) scenario, adding 50 more, is likely going to be experienced much as before, again with no major outcome surprise, but the same calculation [probability of at least one] applied to the cumulative total is 63% ... it is a curvilinear rather than straight line function. 

Similarly, the odds of the beach stroll running afoul when doubling frequency inflate to almost 2/3, but with perhaps an element of surprise at the illusion of invulnerability being disrupted. 

Hey, I realize that 1% in setting (A) is intolerable, and that the inclination would be a nightcap on the wrong side of town, but here is where it gets really fun. Impose the agenda of (A) to the (B) setting. Sexual desire further compounds the rationalization contradictions so that scoring is more expected than an assault, or worse.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Riobard
Splng