10tazione

Let’s be precise about the quote I objected to:
“This is a completely legitimate topic of discussion and the sooner the Zionists are brought to heel, the better. Even better yet, just kick them all out.”
My objection was to “brought to heel” and “just kick them all out.” Who exactly gets kicked out, and how do you decide who qualifies? Opposing a political ideology doesn’t make every proposed action against its supporters justified.
And please stop treating me as though I need convincing about Israel’s treatment of Palestinians. I’ve opposed it since long before it became fashionable. This didn’t start with the current war. Since I watched Occupied Minds, featured by PBS FRONTLINE/World in 2005, in which Palestinian journalist Jamal Dajani and Israeli journalist David Michaelis return to their shared birthplace of Jerusalem and examine the occupation together. These issues go back decades even before I became aware of them.
I am TOTALLY against Netanyahu and what he’s done. I consider him a criminal. Same goes for Trump and Putin. When someone offers “I was just following orders” as an excuse for mistreating people, my response has long been, “That’s what the Nazis said.” Following orders doesn’t erase personal responsibility. But sharing someone’s nationality doesn’t establish personal responsibility either.
I have Jewish, Palestinian, Russian and American friends. They are individuals, not their governments.
I’m also a huge Bernie Sanders supporter. He’s Jewish and has fiercely condemned Netanyahu’s government. His position was explicit: “Not another nickel for the Netanyahu government if its present policies continue.” I agree. Stop funding it. Apply pressure. Hold those responsible accountable.
But you wrote: “Every time I walk past a restaurant where they announce that Israelis are not welcome it feels like there is still hope.”
That sign says Israelis. Not Zionists, Netanyahu supporters or people implicated in crimes. You’ve explicitly acknowledged those aren’t all the same people. That is exactly why I object to the blanket ban.
I accept your clarification about the American sanctions list. But showing that restrictions affecting innocent people are nothing new doesn’t establish that they’re justified.
You’ve explained why you want action. I understand that anger. But what if the person being refused service agrees with you about Netanyahu? What have you accomplished by excluding them?

We agree that Netanyahu deserves condemnation. Where we disagree is whether an Israeli stranger should have to answer for him.
And as for Department_of_Agriculture, I called him a hater because of the repeated ugliness in his posts about Chinese, Vietnamese, Indians, Israelis , etc... That’s the pattern I was addressing. You’re choosing to ignore it; I’m explaining why I called it out. That much contempt for so many different people is just ugly, and NOT LOVELY.

this topic should be moved to the Political Forum it's just a boner killer......

Is that a new massage shop?

Israel is hardly an innocent bystander here. Palestinians have endured decades of occupation, dispossession and discrimination. Condemning that is entirely justified. Netanyahu is wanted by the International Criminal Court for alleged war crimes and crimes against humanity. Hold him and those responsible accountable 🤷‍♂️
You say, “NEVER AGAIN,” and that we don’t protest enough. Protest against the mistreatment of Palestinians, absolutely. Demand accountability. But how does refusing an Israeli tourist dinner accomplish either? “Never again” should mean opposing persecution whoever the victims are. It doesn’t justify treating an entire nationality as guilty....☠️
How do you know that tourist supports Netanyahu? They could have spent months protesting against him. You see a restaurant banning Israelis and feel hopeful. I see people being refused service because of where they come from 🙄
Should all Americans be treated that way because of Trump’s actions too? Am I supposed to answer for everything he does because I have an American passport? 🤪
In fourth grade, we did a version of Jane Elliott’s “Blue Eyes/Brown Eyes” exercise, featured in the PBS documentary A Class Divided. One day, brown-eyed children were the favorites, given privileges and treated as though they could do no wrong. Blue-eyed children were restricted and treated as inferior. The next day, the roles were reversed.....You'll notice I dont shy away from saying I'm a bottom, in many places around the world, they are shamed because a man is supposed to be the TOP..... fuck that, I've never given into peer pressure or mob/herd mentality.
The test shows how quickly children began looking down on classmates simply because the teacher had declared one group superior, and how the mistreatment affected their confidence and performance. Same children, different treatment, based on something that said absolutely nothing about their character..... crazy concept, no?
That lesson has stayed with me for more than 50 years. Skin color, eye color, religion or birthplace doesn’t tell you whether someone is a decent person. Their actions do.
And as for Department_of_Agriculture, you said yourself that you haven’t read the posts. Go read them. They’re all there. The comments about Chinese, Vietnamese, Indians, Israelis and that massage worker weren’t one isolated remark. That repeated pattern is exactly what I was addressing, and I meant everything I wrote

But also funny and smile never leaves his face. When I ask my customary " do you like boys or girls better", answer was straight shot " I like girls but my job is fuck the boys"

@floridarob please convey my thanks to reader for all the new information, even if conveyed indirectly through you.

Day 11
Today, there was very heavy rain. It was predicted for all day. There was flooding in front of the Quarter Silom. I had gone to most of the massage places that I had hoped to visit. According to Massage Insider, many massage shops were closed. We also had dinner reservations. I wasn’t keen on trying to get out in the bad traffic and my feet were already wet.
So I decided to get a massage at the Prime. The Prime had not been busy up until yesterday. That was the first time I actually had to wait an hour to get a massage. It also was Friday at the end of September, perhaps the weekend was changing the dynamics. So, today I decided to go into the Prime early and set up an appointment for the afternoon that would give me plenty of time to get ready for dinner.
I had a two hour aroma oil massage. I specifically told the therapist that I wanted a gentle and relaxing massage. This Prime massage will be quite notable for the two head massages I received during this massage. In addition to the head/scalp massage that I had at the end of the session, which was quite long and really enjoyable, there was another head massage that occurred about 60% of the way through that was also quite enjoyable and a first for me at the Prime.
Various therapists at the Prime, have you more or less covered during the massage. This was on the less covered end of the scale, but I’ve been even less covered at the Prime. There have been hints and teases and various types of touches which I’ve had before during massages at the Prime. But it has never gone past a little bit of teasing by the therapist.
This time when the therapist was working on the front of my right leg I started to get quite aroused. The towel had been placed conveniently so that my arousal would not be hindered in any way. Then, for the first time in my personal experience at the Prime, I was offered the option for happy ending. I took up the option. The negotiations were actually quite simple. He was already going to get a very good tip and he was quite happy with my adding ฿200 to what I was already going to give him anyway.
This therapist used the same term to describe my erection as several other therapists have done on this trip . They have all use the word strong. I’m wondering if that word is used more commonly in Thai than in English. Because I’ve had people describe it as hard or large or whatever, but not with the word strong. It just struck me during this trip. They also said it with a tone of surprise, which, on the one hand was complementary, of course, but on the other hand sounded like they were surprised somebody my age could get it up that way. In any case, it it’s always fun when a young person is impressed with your physical attributes and abilities.
This rainy day fun at the Prime got me thinking about how much I enjoyed today’s session. We go to the Prime for a really good massage, and I have not been let down there so far. I don’t select my therapist generally.IThe HJ that I got was even more enjoyable because it was within the context of such an excellent massage and not expected.
I have always been dubious about reports of a happy ending at the Prime. But not anymore.
This evening we went on a river cruise on the Chao Phraya river. It was a buffet meal. There were traditional dancers. We took some pictures with the male dancers. The food was good. The entertainment was nice. I enjoyed myself.
The biggest issue was that we were on the top deck. It’s completely open. This was a horribly rainy day. There was flooding in Bangkok.
However, some miracle occurred, and we never experienced anything more than a tiny amount of sprinkling during this cruise. The views of Icon Siam and Wat Arun were spectacular. If it had started to rain, we were assured that there was room for us downstairs at the inside dining rooms.
The river levels were quite high. The top of the boat was extremely close to the bridges, but below them. On our first pass, we were all told to go down to the second level as we went under the bridge. But coming back those of us on the top deck were told to either go down to the second deck or we could sit down on these mats on the deck and experience the bridge up close. We stayed on the third deck and enjoyed it. Now, we knew that there was enough clearance because we’ve already done this once. But it was still fairly close. All in the fun.

How are YOU received in Thailand with all that ugly hatred? Do you treat everyone to this charming personality in person, or save it for the board? 🙄
I’ve read your posts. Chinese, Vietnamese, Indians, Israelis… is there anyone left? Even a massage worker gets called a pig with a face “you just want to slap.”.... mirror mirror on the wall.
And you’re worried about OTHER foreigners making a bad impression in Thailand? That’s a bit fucking rich.....😆
You must be an absolute joy to see walking through the door. Do they smile when you arrive, or when you leave? 🤷‍♂️

I came across this video that I had never seen before. It was record just before my arrival in Thailand/Pattaya. I had heard Kevin's Story and the Crazy Pub was of course still open. Was interesting to see these figures on video so many years later.

Then inevitably complains will follow about the noise from Patpong market sipiing in

Oh Keith, you asked a simple yes-or-no question and got the entire Sound of Music soundtrack in return. 😂
Different screen name, same verbosity. Either he thought nobody would recognize him, or he simply forgot his old login credentials. You can change your name, but that unmistakable trail of verbal diarrhea follows you everywhere.
Welcome back, Riobard! 😂
And speaking of reincarnations, I wonder if Peter might be lurking somewhere under a new name too. Perhaps trying a little harder not to be recognized? 😏

Do you know @Riobard ?

I spoke to Reader and he texted me this the other day:


Saphan Kwai indeed going strong as @macaroni21 says. I'm up there about five times weekly when I'm in town. Here's a capsule report:
It's about a 25-minute trip from Sala Deang (47 baht each way with change of train at Siam). Lots of ice candy both ways.
My most frequent stop is LoveBoy (formerly Phetboy) Massage. Large roster of Lao, Myanmar, Thai and occasional Vietnam guys.
Second favorite is 15M Masssage with somewhat smaller but well curated selection.
Third is Star Masssage with not dissimilar crew.
All of the above are no more than 5 minute walk from BTS stop. Loveboy and 15M shop fee is 400 for one-hour oil. Minimum tip is 1,000 baht with a handful a boy higher. Fee to the shop is 400 baht.
Star shop fee starts at 500 and escalates with type of room. Minimum tip also 1,000.
Loveboy is open 24/7 and other two I believe close at midnight.
It's been my experience that Loveboy and 15M are most likely to have guys hanging around shop during evening hours. Star not so much.
You can reserve guy you see on websites on same day without paying deposit.
Other shops I've visited include One Spa (15 minute walk), KMan Spa (5 minute walk), 27M, Home Spa and Phoenix (all about 25 minute walk). Shop fees range from 450-500) with minimum tips in1000 to 1200 range.
There's another small shop, BT House, about a 20 minute walk, on same road (Sutthisan).
I encourage visitors to sample the shops in Saphan Kwai.
And for the record, my favorite shop in Silom is Sun Massage on Silom soi 6.
Hope that helps!
Thanks to Floridarob for passing it along.

Banana Bar outside is the perfect place for watching people as they enter soi 4. Banana Bar waiters are excellent conversationalists too.
We spent one and half hours chatting - me and two forun members - about life, stamp collecting and recent developments in Thailand offline and online.
My guy joined us at 9pm. I had asked for him to spend the night with me. He is always happy to accompany me to Jupiter as his Vietnamese friend is a waiter there. He also knows mamasan well because many years ago, he did a try out as a Jupiter model for a short while. He decided against working there because he didn't want his face to be in Jupiter's social media videos. My guy's best friend worked at Jupiter for a long time and he did well enough to quit working in Bangkok entirely.
At 9:30pm, we spotted Poppy walking past. Jupiter would open soon. Within 10 minutes, we had paid for our drinks and made our way to Jupiter. Mamasans were happy to see us as we were regular customers who offed the models in the past. We were given front row seats at left side of stage. There were probably 10 other customers - 3 sets of mixed couples and the rest were lone male punters. These are true fans of Jupiter and everyone had come early to get good seats. Poppy had started singing. Charming showmanship, wide repertoire of songs (Thai, English, Chinese) and silky vocals - he is one of reasons I always enjoy going to Jupiter.
The other reasons to go to Jupiter
Seeing models
Seeing twinky waiters
Seeing customers
Tonight I saw an Asian couple (man and woman in 50s) off a Jupiter model but not before they interviewed 2 other models individually. I guess only the 3rd model was willing to do what the couple wanted.
Ditto for a Chinese customer in his 40s. Well-dressed. When he came into bar, he was ushered to sit at back and he insisted on being put in front row. He pointed at some empty seats and was told they were reserved for regular customers. Mamasan, realising that this customer was serious about offing a model, got him to squeeze in front row with two customers who had come early and seated there. He interviewed 2 models, including one who had been interviewed by the Asian husband wife couple earlier. Throughout the night, he was talking to mamasan and asking questions about the models. When I left Jupiter after midnight, the customer was still seated alone. I hope he found his guy for the night!

I was back from shopping at 1pm and waited for forum member staying at same Raya Hotel to arrive from airport. Flight delay so ended up I only met him at 4pm. Happy reunion and we went to newly reopened Sarika after renovation. The place has a totally different vibe. It previously had tourists having quiet meals but now it has become a hangout place for young Thai people who gather for drinks and cakes. Trendy aesthetics in the furnishings designed for phototaking and posting on social media. Forum member tried chicken cashew nut and unfortunately declared that it was not as good as before the restaurant's renovation.

As usual, my guy and I played chess while we had breakfast. Only one other hotel guest in breakfast room at same time as us at 8am. My guy went back to his room to continue sleeping while I went shopping. He needs at least 10 hours of sleep every day while I can get by with 5 or 6 hours of sleep.

My flight was scheduled to leave Changi at 1225. But the departure was pushed back 4 times to 1730 and the plane eventually took off at 1900.
Landed at 2000. The egate was a breeze and I was at the carousel under 5 minutes. Was surprised to see about 3 flights listed on the same belt. As the night progresses, at least another 4 or 5 flights were shown on the same belt.
Giving credence to the reports that other airlines were prioritised over Thai, we saw flights from China getting their luggage ahead of us. Throughout this time, no announcements, signs or staffs were stationed to advise passengers on what to do next.
I waited for around 2 hours before deciding to head to the baggage service to see what they can do. But the queue was extremely long and I had to give up. I finally saw a staff member going around with a qr code to get passengers to scan and fill a baggage delivery report. When i asked her if this means, we can leave the airport and will get our luggage by delivery, she said she don't know...i tried filling up the report but there wasn't any acknowledgement email or a tracking number. Therefore I decided to wait a bit more...
Around 0000, I finally can't wait any longer so I decided to join the q at the baggage service with several other passengers on the same flight. In the queue, we managed to speak to one staff who was walking around helping customers and only got an update that the luggage is still being delayed. When i asked about the form I filled up earlier, she say she wasn't briefed about it and didn't know what would happen...so we decided to continue to q.
Around 0100, someone finally came distributing some water. At this time we had gone 5 hours with no water or any refreshments since there weren't even any vending machines...
Around 0245, right when we were at the end of the q, someone from the same flight came to tell us that our luggage were finally coming out. I got mine around 0300.
Tried to get a Grab or Bolt but there weren't any drivers accepting. Joined the taxi queue but it was packed too. After an hour, I finally managed to get a ride on Bolt and reached my hotel around 0440 exhausted...
Throughout the whole adventure, Thai Airways and the Airport did not provide any updates or provided conflicting information which weren't better than no information...the airport had insufficient seats for all the passengers and many had to sit on the floor or trolleys. No refreshments were distributed until many hours later. Frankly the firing of Thai's CEO is justified for his failure in crisis management. I would also fire the CEO of the airport too...

I was at Good Boy buying drinks for the 3 Vietnamese guys who worked. Including them, only 15 guys working on a Friday night. Two or three cuties. But I couldn't possibly buy them drinks since I was with the Viet contingent. There are around 8 Viet guys working regularly at Good Boy. The other Viet guys either went back Vietnam, decided not to work that night or had customer pre-booking. One of the 3 guys whom I sat with complained that he didn't have an off for 2 weeks. Later in the night, I found out from his 2 friends that he got offed after I left the bar!

After eating hotpot, it was back to room to rest. When night arrived, I spent time catching up with guys at Midnight and Good Boy bars. We played pool at the small pool table bar and eventually ended the night with supper at Foodland and invited some friends to join us before my guy and I went back to Raya Hotel for the night.

My previous weekend trip was in July. I didn't come to Bangkok for two months in August and September. In fact, it was supposed to be no more trips for rest of 2026 until 2 week Christmas holiday in December. But I happened to be able to take a day off in October and timing coincided with two forum members being in Bangkok at same time. And to add more pull factor, my guy is back from Vietnam after overseeing majority of construction of his house for his parents and family. He was supposed to be back in end November but he decided on coming back before 15 September date when 60 day visa-free stay is cut down to 30 days. So he is currently able to stay till mid November and by then he would have applied for a one year work visa. Apparently, the one year work visas is only open for application from November to April every year.

My advice in Thailand would be to rent so that you could walk away

Staying at Raya because Quarter Silom prices have shot up (probably due to gay Chinese here during China Golden Week holiday). I swore I selected the cheapest room on Agoda - US$40 per night. But I got assigned this spacious family room on 7th floor!

Yes, Shan Wellness was recently reviewed by the Massage_Insider - where they reviewed the masseur = PANDA and they gave him a ranking of 10 out of 10.



Also, Massage_Insider announced a new service = BT PREMIUM OUTCALL where you can order in your masseur.
Supposedly, the masseurs are sourced from the below 3 BKK massage shops:
Klover
History of Massage (HOM)
The Residences

Here is the BT PREMIUM OUTCALL Instagram page at: https://www.instagram.com/btoutcall.premium/

with employment available adds promising 80000-100000 a month they must be pricy indeed

Do you not carry a tatty old photocopy of your passport.
I do, it worked. Because I recently got a new passport (well about 1 year ago) I also carry a copy of the expired one.

I have tried both and can confirm both are overrated.