jimmie50

As they say, I have been burning the candle at both ends. Think it finally caught up with me.

I think the issue is because they are working in a massage shop. It is my understanding that massage is one of those 'protected' jobs that are restricted for Thai only. What I have read online is that the Thai government does not make a distinction between the different types of massages. Everything seems to be classified as 'Thai Massage', which is one of those protected categories. If the guys chose some other line of work, they could perhaps obtain a work visa. It is called the Alien Law Act and was enacted in 2008. There is a rather lengthy list of jobs which foreigners are not permitted to do: massage shops, banks, tour guides, beauticians/hair cutters, handcrafts, etc. I think one of the reasons for the law was the preservation of Thai culture. Not sure what the full rationale was/is.

continued…Installment 27: Thought I would update forum members on the massage shop situation in Pattaya. Had a text from both the guy at MV and Soda.saying they were going back to Laos within the next day or two. Don’t know about other shops in Supertown, but these two particular shops told the boys they could no longer work there. They are tired of dealing with the police and want no more problems, so want no more illegals working at the shop. If that was the intent of the police raids, then I guess they probably consider the raids a success. However, if the raids were simply a shake down to gain money from illegals…if no more illegals, then no more money. May have backfired on them. Perhaps those forum members who actually live in Pattaya have more information. I am merely passing on what two guys (both illegals) from two different shops have shared with me now. I can understand the frustration from shop owners if this is accurate. Feel sorry for the boys, though, and their situation. The guy from Soda said it will probably be a couple of years before he can return once he goes home.

continued…Installment 26: Last day in Pattaya turned out to be a real dud. Woke up with a scratchy throat and a little nauseous. Not sure what brought that on. Decided it was probably best to skip breakfast. Took some medicine for the nausea, then popped a Halls cough drop in my mouth and laid back down. Probably slept two or three more hours. Stomach seemed to have settled down a bit, but later in the day it went from nausea to diarrhea. Sorry gentleman…I know…TMI. Let’s just say I didn’t venture far from the room and there was no fun activity on the agenda. Since I will be heading back to Bangkok in the morning and already have plans to meet Cam in the evening, thought it best to give my body a chance to recover from all of my recent activities. I also think it quite possibly could be from too much sun on our boat trip. I am very fair skinned and burn easily in the sun. Have had similar issues in the past from sun poisoning. Some medication I take recommends avoiding prolonged exposure to sun. Disappointed that I did not get to experience Pattaya City. Next time I will plan to spend more time exploring Pattaya, and perhaps even make it a trip with Cam. I know from our conversations that he loves the beach, and I don’t believe he has ever been to Pattaya. Concerned it might not be a safe place for him, though, if the Pattaya police are so aggressive about rounding up illegals.

continued…Installment 25: Had a restless night as the A/C unit in my room does not work the greatest. Should probably have requested a room change. As a result, I slept a little later than usual, then headed down to breakfast. Caught up on emails and messages, then showered and decided to go out for a little people watching and something cold to drink. Zing Resort and Spa is a good location. Facility is a little dated for sure. Breakfast is buffet and okay for me. They will do eggs to order. Mixed bag as far as other guests…many single males, which I would expect, but a fair number of couples and even families. I detected a number of Australians, and also many Russians staying here. Room is large with a private patio. Bathroom is small. TMI probably…but when sitting on the toilet my knees are literally touching the wall opposite. Barely enough room in the shower for one or even to turn around completely. Rather disappointed by that. Pool area is nice. Would I stay here again…probably, but also want to try the Agate if I return in the future. Walked to the end of the street which runs into Soda Massage. There is a coffee shop with nice outdoor sitting area. I had my favorite Thai Iced Tea and was able to observe two massage shops directly across the street…MV Massage and Pattaya #1 Massage. Turns out they are listed as two separate shops but in reality it seems to be the same with side-by-side buildings. Same therapists, anyway. This gave me a chance to observe the guys as they gradually arrived for work and make my choice from a distance before actually approaching the shop. Once I had my therapist picked out and had finished my drink, I left the coffee shop and proceeded out like I was going to walk back to my hotel. Naturally, one of the guys grabbed my arm and pulled me towards the shop…massage, mister? Oil massage? 60 minutes? Of course, I was counting on this. Looked at their sign as to what they were offering, saw they had aloe vera lotion, and price was the same as Soda…THB 400 for 60 minutes. I was noncommittal about massage until I confirmed I could pick the therapist. Once he said yes, I pointed directly at the guy I had been watching the last 30 minutes. Deal was sealed. This shop was similar to Soda in that the rooms are really small cubicles large enough to have a massage table but not much else. Walls do not go floor to ceiling, so privacy is an issue. At least I was the only customer at that time, so not many loud noises or other voices to distract from the environment. Only male therapists, but female manager. Hooks on wall for clothes. Offer of shower, but not required. Said I had just taken a shower at the hotel about an hour ago and was good. No problem with that. Communal bathroom, so no en-suite available. Turns out the guy I chose is from Laos. Been in Pattaya for two months. Will be going back home next week, but plans to return the following month. Before the massage even started he had stripped down to his underwear. No need to guess where this would end up. His massage skills were not nearly as good as the guy from Soda the night before, but he was much more sensual. Again, as things progressed and I flipped over there was no mention of special services or request for tip. If I had to guess, I would say he was gay. He actually initiated kissing, which I love, and the underwear vanished showing a nice sized rock hard appendage. Interesting to me he was willing to do everything except penetration. He said the police had raided the business last week and five of the guys were arrested. So when it came to penetration he said ‘no sex’. Shop not allow sex because of raid. From my perspective, everything else we did would also classify as sex, so not sure why they just consider penetration sex. In any event, I still left happy. The five boys had to pay a THB 30,000 fine each, and the shop did not help the guys at all. They had to come up with the money on their own. Not sure how the police determined the guys had engaged in sex at the shop?!? Anyone have thoughts about that? Or was this just a shake down by corrupt policemen. Gave the same tip as the night before, THB 1000 and 400 for the massage. He also asked me how long I was staying in Pattaya and wanted to exchange Line account info. Had a text message from Soda guy. Guess he saw me leaving the other massage shop in the afternoon and wanted to know why I didn’t stop by and say hello. Told him I honestly didn’t see him or know he was working at that time. I just walked directly back to my hotel, which was the opposite direction of his shop. I knew where this conversation was headed from the start…he wanted to know if I was coming back to see him tonight. I said I had plans to meet a friend for dinner, then we were going to visit a couple of bars on Walking Street. Didn’t promise anything. Said if I had time and saw him sitting outside I would say hello. Wanted to keep my options open in case something or someone peaked my interest at a bar. Was meeting forum member @bkkmfj2648 who lives in Pattaya for dinner at Dick’s Cafe. As I was walking to Dick’s Cafe, I noticed a bit of what I considered unusual activity outside of MV Massage and Pattaya #1. Couldn’t quite put my finger on it, but something just didn’t look right and the actions of the few guys standing outside was not the usual engagement with passersby. Looked over at Soda and there was absolutely no guys sitting outside there. Not a single person. At first I was thinking business must be good, all the guys with customers and the rooms full. But my gut was telling me something wasn't quite right. Very strange that there was not at least one or two guys out in front. The place appeared deserted. Sent a text message somewhat jokingly to Soda guy that I stopped by once again but he was nowhere to be found. Didn’t get an immediate reply, which I didn’t expect if he was with a customer, but later he said there was a problem at the shops and he wasn’t there. He was at the beach. By this time I had connected with @bkkmfj2648 at Dick’s and I shared my observations. He immediately said the police probably raided the massage places…again. They had just done it last week. The guy I had in the afternoon at MV had mentioned earlier about five boys from the shop where he worked. Looking primarily for ‘illegals’ from Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam and Myanmar. @bkkmfj2648 said this happens often at the shops in Pattaya. He said the frequency could be because of the recent elections and the police in Pattaya probably want to prove to the higher ups in the new government that they are doing their jobs. Or, could be because of the ongoing conflict with Cambodia. Or, could be one of the officers needed a new iPhone 17 and decided to shake down the guys for the money. Who knows what their reasons are…maybe they are related to the Orange Overlord and don’t need any reason or justification. Just do as they damn well please…but I digress. Had a nice dinner with @bkkmfj2648 As I said before, it is nice to be able to put a face with an online name and share experiences/escapades. Talked about the gay scene in Pattaya and life in general. Enjoyed Dick’s Cafe. Food was good, cute waiters (tried to obtain a phone number without success), and overall great atmosphere. Good location to do some people watching as the entire area is very festive. Seemed to notice more older farangs in the Supertown Jomtiem Complex than I did in Silom area of Bangkok. Did not see many Chinese tourists, but did observe a number of Russians, especially at the Zing. After a nice casual dinner with excellent conversation we headed over to Sunee Boy to watch the show. I was really impressed with the choreography and energy level of the performers. The makeshift stage or platforms they were dancing on seemed a little dangerous and I was expecting someone to go crashing through the top at any moment. Interesting mix of traditional Thai dance interspersed with modern, high energy. Naturally, all twinks and had my eye on two in particular. Boys would flirt when on stage with eye contact, smiles, etc., but once they finished performing they didn’t really mingle with the customers but either went to Best Boy for costume change or to hang out with each other. Really was a great show. After the show we headed over to M Bar, which is a pillow bar. Never heard that term before, so I had no idea what it meant. Also never heard of a boom boom room above the bar if you wanted some play time with one of the guys. Got a good education in Pattaya. Some cuties at this bar, too, and very friendly. One in particular peaked my interest. However, throughout the evening I had been keeping in touch with Soda guy to make sure he and the other guys were safe, if they had returned to the shop or were still at the beach…bottom line is they did not receive the all clear to return so a large number of them where still hanging out together at the beach. This means none of them made any money for the evening. He was very good at using that against me. He read me like an open book. It didn’t take too much twisting of my arm to invite him to the hotel. Forget massage. Just the fun part. I wanted to make sure he could get to the hotel safely, though. Last thing I wanted to happen is him get picked up by the police because he was coming to meet me. He assured me he could get there safely, so I agreed. @bkkmfj2648 and I said our goodnights, discussed possibly going to Pattaya City clubs the next night, then I was meeting Soda guy at 11:15pm in front of the hotel. Otherwise, I definitely would have been offing one from M Bar.

Must of been a different Sunee Bar, or in some other location in Supertown. There was no butch or macho dancers here. lol. Only going on what he told me. I am naturally curious, so if we are engaging in any type of conversation I will usually ask them if they identify as gay, straight, or something in between. He specifically said he was straight. Asked the question because I wasn't getting a gay vibe...but who knows. For every person he mets there is probably a different story. lol.

continued…Installment 24: I had no definite plans for the evening and was tired after the busy day. Debated whether I would even go out and decided to take a nap. Woke up around 7:30pm and decided I would at least walk around Supertown area and perhaps grab a bite to eat. Headed out after taking a shower. It was still early in the evening, so it appeared that things were just starting to get busy. I saw a number of straight couples exploring walking street, and way more Caucasian guys than I had seen in Bangkok. Of course, a good number of young Asian guys entertaining the Caucasian guys. The scene for me was similar to what I experienced in Soi 4 of Silom. Lots of outdoor seating at all of the venues, facing each other with walking street in the middle. Again, I was reminded of the face off staring competition we had as children. Who will blink first. Not surprised that Asian guys not attached to a farang had their noses buried in their phones. They would occasionally look up, someone might say hello or smile, then back to their TikTok, texting or game. Later in the evening there were young guys trying to persuade passers by to come inside for the show. I didn’t venture into any of the clubs. Save that for tomorrow night. Decided to check out the massage shops instead. Didn’t care for the shops on the main street (168 Relax, Beach, Bua Siam). Seemed to have more female workers than males at these three shops, and none of the males were of interest to me. Just didn’t like the overall look of the shops, either. Considered MV and Pattaya #1. May go back to one of them tomorrow, but settled on Soda as they had more guys and several that really interested me. Because I had gotten a little too much sun on the boat today, I chose a 60 minute aloe vera cream massage. Regular oil massage is THB 300 and the aloe vera cream was an extra THB 100. It is interesting to me that shops here do not offer 90 or 120 minutes sessions. Not an option at all. 60 minutes is the maximum. Rooms were basically mall cubicles large enough to hold a massage table and nothing else. No room to walk around the table. Walls did not go floor to ceiling, but had a huge gap at the top. No sound proofing whatsoever. The cubicles did have locking doors as well as a curtain. Hook on wall for hanging clothes. While they had nice calming music playing in the background, there were too many other noises for it to be a relaxing experience. Loud conversations among the guys, easily overheard other customers on either side of you trying to engage in conversation with the therapist, something that sounded like a commercial drill constantly revving up, no A/C unit in the cubicles…just an overhead fan. Communal bathroom with two shower stalls, sink and toilet in separate room. Common hallway from rooms to bathroom, so not a good experience if you are shy I would imagine. I believe there were five cubicles. Older gentleman using a walker and accompanied by an aide was in the cubicle next to me and kept shouting out for his aide. Very distracting indeed. I would classify all of the guys who work at the shop as twinks. My guy had no English skills, but we were able to manage with Google Translate on phones just fine. Btw, he was from Laos. Important fact to note later. Before starting the massage he removed his shirt. A promising sign. I wasn’t sure what to expect regarding massage, but it was actually better than I expected. The aloe vera was a good choice and very soothing on the sunburn. Started on my feet and worked his way up. Was expecting some more sensual elements when he got to the glutes, but nothing. As a result, I was thinking perhaps this was just going to be massage. When he started working on my back, he straddled my ass and I could very distinctly feel something dangling. At some point he had removed his shorts, so things were once again looking more promising. He had me flip over and from that point on there was no more massage…just play. Interesting to me is he never asked about extra or special services, nor was tip ever discussed. It seemed to me as this was considered as part of the package. He was definitely a willing participant, but had his limits. No penetration. Also important to remember for future post. Pretty sure he is straight. At the conclusion he asked if I wanted to shower and I actually declined. I was just down the street from Zing, so decided I would just shower back at the hotel…especially since he wasn’t planning on joining me in the shower. I mentioned (via translate) that we had never discussed tip and he only asked for THB 500. That seemed ridiculously low to me, so I gave him THB 1000 and he was very happy. He asked how long I was staying in Pattaya and if I would come and see him again. Provided his Line account info. lol. The therapist was just my type and provided excellent service. The shop, however, leaves much to be desired. I didn’t care for the overall environment at all. Much prefer the Bangkok shops. Took another stroll down Walking Street and decided after walking past the Mexican restaurant that I was a little hungry. It was 9:30pm, so the restaurant was very quiet…only one other customer who was visiting with the manager. Most people were at the bars by now. Food was actually very good and fairly authentic. I only had the Quesadilla, though, as I wasn’t that hungry. Several nice looking guys working here, but one in particular started two weeks ago and his English was exceptional. We chatted a bit, and since there were no other customers I invited him to join me…just for conversation. Invited him to get a drink and put it on my bill. He was very friendly…almost too flirtatious…which could give some people the wrong impression or idea. He is new and just a little too eager to please the boss and keep customers happy. Anyway, it was an enjoyable dinner with good company. I would definitely recommend and return to this restaurant. By now it was 11pm and I was exhausted from the day. I decided to head back to the hotel with no plans to stop along the way. Think that was a wise decision, because within 15 minutes of arriving in my hotel room it was like the clouds opened and there was a tremendous downpour. I seem to recall walking street is covered, so perhaps no impact to the bars from the rain. However, not all venues are protected so weather must have been a negative impact until closing time. And yes, I was just as flirtatious right back at him. Quite a bit of friendly banter went back and forth, and I really was hoping to persuade him to join me at Zing...but alas, no offing...at least not during working hours. lol.

continued…Installment 23: Got up at 7am and went down for the hotel breakfast. We have a 9am booking for the boat trip, so need to leave the hotel no later than 8am to arrive on time. We will be doing some snorkeling, swimming, and have a BBQ at the beach. My friends booked a private tour, so nobody else will be on the boat with us…just the four of us plus three guides. I believe the island is Koh Larn, although I won’t guarantee that to be the case. It was different than what they had originally talked about. Any time I attempt boat tours in Asian countries, the first dilemma is always finding a life jacket that will be large enough for me. Just like I can never find clothes to purchase here, life jackets simply won’t buckle together on me. lol. Getting on to the boat was the next challenge. Steps down from the dock were quite steep and very slippery. At least there was a sturdy handrail I could grasp on to tightly. Once on the boat, the ‘captain’ gave safety instructions. He was probably mid or late 30’s, Thai, grew up in the area near the dock and been doing this most of his life. Kind of short and on the stocky side. Definitely not my type. The other two guides, however, were quite adorable. One is still in high school, 17, and does this on weekends and during school breaks. The other was in university, 20, and also does weekends and school breaks. The 20 year old was definitely a twink with the cutest ass. Really wanted to play with it, but managed to behave myself. Arrived at the area for snorkeling, so everyone was in the water. Challenge number 3 was getting back on the boat as there was only a short ladder with one step. Took the 17 year on the boat pulling me up while the 20 year old was pushing from behind. Someone should have been making a video. It would be hilarious. Didn’t mind at all that the 20 year old was pushing my ass. 17 year old went by the nickname Donny and 20 year old by the nickname Bew. Ended up getting a couple of nasty bruises on my upper arms from the ordeal. Moved to a second location for more snorkeling, but this time I chose to remain on the boat. Didn’t want to deal with trying to get back on from the water, and was also a little tired. After 45 minutes we pulled up anchor and headed to the beach. While a little easier getting in and out of the boat at the beach, still a bit of a challenge for me. All in all, it was a fun day and something different. Not a huge seafood person, so didn’t particularly care for the grilled shrimp, crab, squid, etc., but my options were limited. There are a number of companies that offer similar tours. My friends had used this one previously and had a good experience, so I don’t believe they really shopped around. After our BBQ lunch, we returned to the dock, took showers, and headed back toward Zing. Another hour long drive. My friends dropped me off at the hotel around 4:30pm and then headed back to Bangkok. They have work and school in the morning.

continued…Installment 22: Traffic to Pattaya was terrible. I can remember visiting Pattaya before and it would take about two hours to drive there. Between sheer numbers of vehicles, road construction, and lane closures, I think it took us close to four hours just to get to the outskirts of Pattaya. By this time, everyone was hungry so we stopped at this very expensive Japanese buffet. Not what I would consider a traditional buffet. You ordered from an online menu via QR code. It was a set price per person, but then all you could eat of whatever you ordered. We each ordered a number of things and then shared. Total came to THB 2700 for the four of us. That came to roughly $82 USD or $20 per person. It was too late to be lunch, so we just made that our dinner. Considering that, I suppose the price was reasonable. Service was excellent, food was great…would definitely return, although I am not sure I would ever be able to find it again. Not sure if it is part of a chain or a one off location. Continued on to our lodging after dinner, which took about another hour. I wanted to stay in Jomtien Complex, not at their condo at the Base, so I booked two rooms for us at Zing Resort & Spa. Once we got checked in and settled into our rooms, I think everyone was exhausted and pretty much crashed for the night. No late night adventures to report…sorry to disappoint.

Good advice, thanks! Kind of why I am leaning towards doing nothing at the moment and just seeing how things play out once I have returned to Denver. Plus, the unknown element in this is what his thoughts or feelings are about such an arrangement...and what the arrangement might look like from his perspective. Since it hasn't been mentioned or discussed between us...he has no idea what I am thinking. I have been able to do that on the forum, but it isn't something that has come up in any of our conversations. He may say 'thanks, but no thanks' and have little or no interest in such a thing. On the flip side, he might be thinking about something similar but unsure how to approach me. Way too many variables here at the present time, so better to hit the pause button on myself. As the old saying goes, don't get the cart before the horse. See how the three days together go first. Then proceed with caution.

Walking around Jomtien Complex this afternoon I took a couple of photos. I believe this is the shop you are talking about.

As @vinapu would say, we can thank the Orange Overlord for this mess. 😭

Currently in Bangkok, and haven't heard or read anything specifically about jet fuel here other than concerns similar to other places in general. However, I do know from stopping on our way to Pattaya for gasoline that it is being rationed at almost all stations here. I think the current limit is THB 600 or approximately 18 Liters per person/vehicle.

The 3 days I did already mention to him...just asking if it would be something he is interested in doing. That was an easy conversation to have. Based upon what other forum members have recommended, we have confirmed the 3 days at THB 10,000...although I am sure I will give him 12,000. That would fit with my thinking all along of 4,000 per day. So...that is basically a done deal. The difficult conversation is about a more long term arrangement...and what that might even look like. I am beginning to think I should maybe put that idea on the back burner, so to speak, and let time and distance put things into better perspective for me. Removing myself from the present situation could change my thoughts on the idea. I feel like we will maintain some type of communication once I return home via Line, and just kind of take a step back and see what happens moving forward. I am planning a return trip later in the year, but no definite dates just yet. I also plan to make that trip unannounced...other than possibly Cam. I do not want my straight friends to know, as they will try to plan outings and activities that will distract me from other more important matters. LOL. I don't want my current group of regulars to know as I don't want any expectations or assumptions made in advance. Going to follow advice of other forum members and not share too much information.

continued…Installment 21: No texts from Banana guy, so I think he got my message loud and clear. Not sure I will see him again before my departure on April 2. Too many other fish in the sea. Decided on a quiet afternoon and didn’t schedule any activities. Met Cam at 8pm outside of Hotmale, provided him with off fee and since I have done that a few times now avoiding the need to buy us both a drink in the club I thought it would be wise to tell him give THB 200 tip to head mamasan to keep us in her good graces. lol. Decided to try Happy Beer Garden for dinner, but did not get the cashew chicken. I was in the mood for something different, so we ordered Tom Yum soup, Pad Thai w/shrimp, and deep fried chicken wings. We sat on the second floor in a room with A/C and some interesting decor on the ceiling. Artificial flowers outlined light fixtures and it almost looked like Christmas tree ornaments hanging everywhere. Food was good. Definitely a place I would go back to, but don’t think I would want to sit on the first floor as no A/C. Cam said that Sarica and Happy Beer Garden are owned by the same people. Not sure if that is true or not…forum members may be more knowledgeable about this. Too early to go back to the condo, so decided to check out another club. Went to Moonlight, since I had not been to this club on this trip just yet. Usual parade of number guys…I counted 11 guys in the rotation. 10 customers including us…mostly Asian guys, but one older Caucasian. One number boy was sitting with an older Asian customer. Eventually they would leave together. Just as I noted on my previous visit to this club, the number of employees far outnumbered the customers. Show started late and consisted mostly of the models. Got that same standoffish attitude from the models as I noticed the first time I visited this club. Headed back to the condo after the show, showered together, did the wild thing and spent the night wrapped in each other’s arms. Really enjoy the time I spend with Cam more and more. Going to be difficult leaving him behind. Slept later than usual, went for some breakfast, came back and took a swim, then went to the fitness room where he worked out and I simply admired the view. lol. Gym and exercise just not my thing, but enjoy watching him. After his workout, we said our goodbyes and he headed back home. I took a nice, long nap in the afternoon because in the evening I met Paradise guy. We went and grabbed some dinner, came back to the condo and watched a movie, did the wild thing, and he spent the night. He is not quite into the cuddling during the night like Cam is, but other wise was a nice evening once again. After we ate some breakfast he showered and headed off to work. I needed to pack a few things for a few days out of Bangkok. Friends are picking me up at noon. Won’t see any of my regulars for the next few days as am going to Pattaya in the morning with my straight friends. They have some sort of boat excursion planned on Sunday out to one of the islands near Pattaya that will include some snorkeling and BBQ. Plan on staying in Pattaya a couple of days on my own before returning to Bangkok Wednesday morning. Will be interesting to see what mischief I can find around Jomtien Complex.

This is where I am having conflict within myself. First of all, I am not sure how these types of arrangements really work. I know that I am not really interested in being a sponsor for someone providing a set amount to money every month for living expenses. I am only willing to do that if we are actually a couple living together. I also don't know how you negotiate something like a boyfriend relationship with someone who works in the club. Boyfriend to me would mean exclusivity. How does that even work for a guy working in the club?!? The reason they are working in the club in the first place is to make money. To make the most money possible, they know it will require going 'off' with customers. The exclusive thing just doesn't fit that business model. If there isn't any 'off' taking place, what is the point of working the club in the first place. Really curious what types of arrangements other forum members have who have 'regular' guys. While I have enjoyed meeting a number of different guys this trip and enjoyed regular sessions, only one has peaked my interest enough to even consider any of this, and that would be Cam. I really don't know how to even approach the subject with him or if it is something that he would even be interested in. I also don't know exactly what I would be suggesting, given this inner struggle taking place in my mind. I certainly don't want to make any promises that I cannot or will not keep. I don't want to be 'all talk, no action' or empty promises, so to speak.

I am the relatively new kid on the block, so to speak, so have no experience prior to the last maybe 9 months. I missed the days of Soi Twilight and how connections used to be made. My only point of reference is what I have experienced, which is mostly in person meets first, either in massage shops or clubs, then via Line if we exchange account information. I learned prior to my first 'fun' trip in October by reading many posts and asking lots of questions on the forum. That has helped me keep my generosity in check most of the time. I also am careful about what I say and never promise anything. Even those I have been seeing somewhat regularly, I never 100% guarantee a next time or promise exactly when we might get together again. I always say to the guys from massage shops who exchange Line accounts with me that if we meet away from the shop they are able to keep 100% of the money versus me paying the shop for a massage, them getting THB 150 and whatever I might be willing to provide as a tip. Hopefully the fact it is putting more money in their pockets makes it an attractive situation for both of us. I am naturally curious and enjoy learning a little about the guys...where they are from, if they have siblings, how long they have worked at the shop, and things along those lines. Never any promises like 'I'll take care of you, you are special, I love you', or anything like that. The reverse has been the case with Paradise guy, in that he has used the 'L' word with me a number of times now. I do not respond in kind when he says it. The closest thing with any of the guys is when they send me some cute or humorous sticker or emoji via Line I might return something similar. That could include a heart or blowing kisses. I don't believe anyone could misconstrue that as declaring love or promising anything. I do understand what you are saying. These guys have heard empty promises for years. They are rightfully skeptical, especially when promises are made that simply sound like a repeat of something they have heard over and over again but never come to fruition.

Completely understandable. Nothing has ever been mentioned to me about any minimums for short term or long term at Hotmale. Not sure such a thing exists there. I was actually thinking about falling between @vinapu at THB 3000 and you at THB 5000 by offering Cam THB 4000 for the three days. Again, this is all just in my pea-sized brain at the moment. lol. Haven't actually discussed details with Cam yet...only to confirm that he would be open to the possibility.

Thanks for sharing. I think the tone of Banana guy's message was more of an aggressive mood...at least my instincts. Would rather spend my time with Cam, anyway, so his tactic sort of backfired on him. Not in any type of sponsor/bf/exclusive arrangement, but toying with the idea of that with Cam. Not sure how all of that works, though. When they work in the club, I don't know how it is possible for them to be exclusive. That is how they really make the most of their money...offs by customers. What little they get from the bar for showing up and maybe money from a customer buying them a drink isn't enough to cover daily living expenses. Don't know that I want to be considered as a sponsor, either, providing a regular stipend. Something I am trying to reconcile within myself before approaching the subject with Cam. Want to make sure I am clear in my thinking and expectations before committing to anything.

He is Cambodian, so not a native English speaker, but his English is quite good and we haven't had any issues communicating previously. I think it was an aggressive move or power play, and I wasn't willing to play the game. While I enjoyed his company, there are others I have met on this trip just as good and nice who I would like to spend time with before my return to US.

Top is usually what I am looking for, but I prefer to find someone that lists T/B rather than strictly top. My rationale is probably off in left field somewhere, but I like more of a boyfriend experience with playful, sensual aspects throughout. Those who are strictly top I assume are straight and will perform but it will be more mechanical and lack the intimacy I prefer. I assume those who list T/B may be gay or bi and more open to the type of experience I enjoy. Kissing is something I really enjoy, and those who are strictly top and straight will not kiss or just give light pecks. Naturally, it doesn't always work out that way. At one time this shop would put a small rainbow flag on the photos they posted so you could easily identify who was gay. They haven't done that in quite some time, though.

This reminds be about stinky tofu in Taiwan. Personally, I never minded the smell and enjoyed eating it. Recall several night markets I visited with delicious stinky tofu. I have tried durian as well. I don't really get an onion smell from it, and the smell doesn't really bother me. I just don't care for the taste in general. My straight Thai friends don't care for it and often complain about the smell and taste. lol.

continued…Installment 20: Woke up to messages from Paradise guy, Banana guy, Chaichana guy and Cam. All of them came in during the night after they finished work with exception of Paradise guy. Most of the time it is the same thing from everyone…’hello’, followed by ‘how are you’. Paradise guy is almost always ‘what are you doing’. Banana guy is the more aggressive of them all, always asking when I am coming to see him again. Guy from Green massage is coming over this afternoon. While he has ‘massage experience’ from both Paradise and Green massage, in our text messages to set up today’s session he mentioned a couple of times that he has never met with a massage customer outside of the shops before. He also said I was his first time doing full on sex in either shop. Before he has only done hand job. Not sure how truthful the last part is, because he was definitely instigating the play at Green when I saw him, but I do believe his statement about never meeting a customer outside. I can tell from the tone of his messages that he is a little nervous or anxious. It seems the larger group of traveling forum members in Bangkok has now dwindled down to just two of us. Met other forum member for dinner after both of us had afternoon extracurricular activities. Nice dinner at a great Italian restaurant in Central Park. Would definitely go back, and highly recommend. Following dinner we walked over to Patpong 2. Debated which club to visit, and ultimately decided on Dream Boy. This was my first visit to Dream Boy. Just like we all have our preferences for our gentlemen friends, we all have clubs that we prefer for various reasons. I was not overly impressed with Dream Boy. Found very few guys of interest to me; way too many mamasan’s or waiters acting as a mamasan…not sure which…and all very pushy; too many loud, large parties with big spenders who had way too much alcohol and assumed they were the only patrons in the bar; show was disappointing and DJ was terrible with transitions between the acts. I would return if I was in a group and that was the club most of the group wanted to visit. On my own, probably would not return to Dream Boy. Did not see my massage guy from Prince in the line-up, so must have been his night off. We decided to leave after the first show was over. Other forum member was calling it an early evening to go pack before departure the next morning. I walked across the alley to Hotmale. Was going to see if Cam was there or had gone with a customer. Turns out he was with a customer, so I decided to make it an early night as well and headed back to the condo. Sent him a text letting him know I did stop by, because I was sure someone at Hotmale would tell him. Turns out his outing with the customer was short and he was already at home. Offered to come over to the condo, but by that time I decided to just get a good nights sleep and we agreed to meet the next night for dinner and he will spend the night again. Just to update everyone on Banana guy…he sent me a text early evening letting me know he was free and wanted me to come take him off. Told him I had plans for dinner with a friend and wasn’t sure what we might do after dinner. Basically said ‘some other time’ to him. After I said that, he replied with the following: ‘I’m free tonight if you want to meet up. Maybe from tomorrow onwards I will be busy because of my clients.’ I really didn’t care for the pressure tactics or tone of his message, so I promptly responded 'I am busy tonight. If I am free later in the week and you are busy with other customers, I will find another boy. No problem.' I think I am going to let him stew on that for a little while before connecting with him again…if I even connect again this trip. His comment kind of turned me away from him….had the opposite effect of what he was going for.

I think that is the normal schedule for most of the guys working clubs. They don't get home until 1:30 or 2am and probably not ready to sleep until 3am. Then they sleep all day until time to get up and start the routine all over again. Cam would have that same routine, which is why I am agreeable to going to a club to watch the show after dinner. My preference would be to head directly back to the hotel and sleep at a reasonable hour (for me). I know that doesn't work for him. So, shower and playtime after returning to the hotel needs to be later and sleep time later to accommodate his normal schedule. The difference for my situation is Cam won't be going to work. I am paying the off fee so he doesn't need to be there. To be honest, I'm not sure I would be ok with him spending the day with me, then going to work at the club, and then come back to me. That isn't exactly the experience I am looking for. I do not know if his club has a set off fee for ST and LT or not. He has never mentioned it, nor has mamasan...other than THB 500 off fee to club. Mamasan has not tried to interfere with our negotiations when in the club, and the last few times we haven't even gone inside the club. Mamasan knows he is off with me and that is the end of the discussion between us. Anything else is worked out between me and Cam.

Definitely sounds like you got the best deal. I am only be talking about three days for now, but could easily see doing some traveling and longer stays with Cam in the future. I much prefer the type of arrangement you describe with your Pattaya guy. Not so much interested in the type of arrangement you had with the Bangkok guy. I might just be seeing what I want to, or perhaps wishful thinking on my part, but I think Cam would prefer me taking him off from the bar and spending the night. Just my perception based on experience so far, but again, could be what he wants me to think.