Westerners have not always been so clean. I remember my early years coming out and having sex with men who had what were then described as "cheesy willies", disgustingly smelly penis, who never seemed to draw back their foreskins to clean them properly! 

15 hours ago, ichigo said:

They have these toilets at Crowne Plaza! With English instructions  

confirmed but I refused to educate myself as I consider those going overboard big time  

41 minutes ago, Ruthrieston said:

Westerners have not always been so clean.

agree, try to use crowded bus in summertime in some of our countries and soon you realize  it's case. Same same when some odor can be sniffed on BTS, invariably is coming from one of ours. 

4 hours ago, Keithambrose said:

As far as I am concerned, if I am going to have sex, I always shower first, and wash appropriately!

I do this even when I'm not having sex....😉

11 minutes ago, floridarob said:

I do this even when I'm not having sex....😉

if you don't have sex you shower first to what?

6 minutes ago, vinapu said:

if you don't have sex you shower first to what?

I do it just to keep myself clean and feeling clean, as well as not to give off any farang odours in parts of the world where farang are less common. Apart from odours expelled during excessive sweating, we all tend to smell of what we have generally eaten.  

5 hours ago, PeterRS said:

I do it just to keep myself clean and feeling clean, as well as not to give off any farang odours in parts of the world where farang are less common. Apart from odours expelled during excessive sweating, we all tend to smell of what we have generally eaten.  

I believe that the Japanese think that we smell of fish!

54 minutes ago, Keithambrose said:

I believe that the Japanese think that we smell of fish!

It's shit, not fish.  One time I got off my longhaul flight and wait in immigration line at BKK.  The farang in front of me smell like he just shit in the pants.   Too bad I was right behind him and had to endure the ordeal. 

I think a lot of people do not use their sense of smell very acutely. I recall a flight from Amsterdam to Hong Kong in economy class. Until the doors were about closed, I thought the seat next to me would be empty. Then a tall Dutch guy entered and sat in it. Unfortunately he then took off his shoes. I cannot tell you how awful was the smell emanating from those shoes and his socks. Mabe I should have said something, but I endured that flight and hated almost every minute of it.

One reason I enjoy being with Chinese from the southern regions of the country is the rather sweet skin smell which comes from a diet heavy on rice. This is not so prominent in the northern Provinces where rice is not as common in the diet. Oddly I do not get that with Japanese and so there must be some other food helping produce that smell. On the other hand, Japanese rice is very different from Chinese grown rice. Having lived in Hong Kong for 20 years I became very accustomed to that.

4 hours ago, scott456 said:

It's shit, not fish.  One time I got off my longhaul flight and wait in immigration line at BKK.  The farang in front of me smell like he just shit in the pants.   Too bad I was right behind him and had to endure the ordeal. 

you could exercise freedom of moving back to end of line

18 minutes ago, vinapu said:

you could exercise freedom of moving back to end of line

I wouldn't know how far his shit smell went.  It would be futile to move back to the end of line just to smell the same.

On 10/29/2023 at 7:36 PM, vinapu said:

Surprisingly perhaps when in Thailand I do take a shower right away and ask boys I'm hosting to do the same. 

Only when you are in Thailand? You allow yourself to rot in your farang land? Or because you are too lazy to clean your shitty shower stall at home?

Good thing it’s Halloween because this thread getting really scary.

 

9 hours ago, scott456 said:

You allow yourself to rot in your farang land? 

of course , don't you know men are dirty animals ?

10 minutes ago, vinapu said:

of course , don't you know men are dirty animals ?

Speak for yourself.

Vinapu was sarcastic don't take it seriously 😆

I am continuing this thread, but the turn of the discussion might better fit under ‘Can we ever understand the Thais?’

After some time back in Bangkok it is clear that the issue with the apartment is a little bit Chinese, but a lot more family.

Getting that clarity has been an entertainingly circular process because of Bangkok Guy’s indirectness and his chronic inability to work out his priorities and make quick decisions.

It is just as well that I like him and accept the non-linear nature of his decision making, so that I find the process of discovering what he is actually thinking entertaining.

First day back we spent a couple of hours looking at apartments on-line and it seemed to me the process was going in circles. Bangkok Guy was just not consistent in what he seemed to want.

So out with the spreadsheet to tabulate what we both prioritized in an apartment.

The obvious difference is that I prioritize the amenities – swimming pool, meeting room – and he doesn’t, and I am very flexible on location while he wants an apartment along a defined but longish stretch of the metro because he has friends in the area.

The less obvious bit was the permissible Chinese representation and the size/# of bedrooms.

It was soon clear that while a high Chinese representation was not desirable, the Chinese presence was not the real issue. Apartment size trumped Chinese and apartments in older buildings were larger and so more desirable than smaller apartments in newer buildings with more amenities.

Then the first brick dropped.

Bangkok Guy’s mother is moving back to Issan and his sister needs somewhere to stay. It is his responsibility to make sure she has somewhere and to keep an eye on her. “I not have choice”.

Ok, but then we need two bedrooms, which fits into the budget, so no problem. Well a bit of one as I would prefer just the two of us, but his sister is pleasant and he feels responsible.

‘Not need two bedrooms, sister can sleep in living room. Two bed too expensive. Just need larger apartment’.

No, we need two bedrooms. I’m not walking around your sister and I need a space to work.

I pointed to one of the apartments that he had first shown me – modern building, all the amenities I want and two bedrooms within budget – this one works.

But somehow now it didn’t work, older buildings with large 1 bedroom apartments were inexplicably better, so we left it in illogical suspension for a day.

When I don’t understand something with Bangkok Guy, give it some time and the fog usually clears.

At the end of a day in Silom/Sathorn for shopping and dining and jazz Bangkok Guy announced that I needed to live in Sathorn. “It where shopping and restaurants and jazz is, you like. And White People live (he always uses White People, not Falang to refer to Europeans)”.

But what about you, it is not the area you want, it is long way from friends?    ‘I take metro’.

“Also is too far from (sister’s) university. She can have own apartment near university and we live Sathorn”

But don’t you have to supervise her?  Some squirming body language from Bangkok Guy.

I need you to be happy, can’t get new apartment and then you worry about sister and want to change again. Finding accommodation for sister make you happy?   “Yes”

Have sister live with us make you happy?   A guilty look and “Happy but only a little bit”

Ok, so we can get two apartments, one for your sister and one for us, or we can get one apartment with two bedrooms. Cost same, you choose (It does cost the same but our apartment is much better than sister’s).

“Cannot choose, you have to choose”.

And the second brick drops.

Bangkok Guy wants it to be just the two of us, but he can’t conscientiously make that decision.

But if I, a White Person, need to live in Sathorn with other White People, then that is too far from university and it becomes logical for sister to have her own apartment. She has been housed, but not chaperoned, for reasons outside of his control.

Coincidentally Sathorn has a stock of older larger 1 bedroom apartments, who knew?

 In a non-linear, indirect and indecisive way Bangkok Guy had been building his way to this solution.

He is now happily looking for apartments in Sathorn, nest building for his preferred number, 2.

His sister is a solidly sensible young woman, who happens to like other women, and so probably does not need a chaperone.

10 minutes ago, CurtisD said:

 In a non-linear, indirect and indecisive way Bangkok Guy had been building his way to this solution.

And now you've mastered the introductory module in the course Cross-Cultural Communication in Southeast Asia. 😁

2 hours ago, CurtisD said:

‘Can we ever understand the Thais?’

and the answer is NEVER.

 

4 hours ago, CurtisD said:

Bangkok Guy wants it to be just the two of us, but he can’t conscientiously make that decision.

You have just captured saving face reality for thais in your story perfectly. What bangkok guy wants and what he must do can be very diff. While his family and sister might not be able to tolerate him not staying with his sister as the mother wants, if it comes from you, a farang, who has been providing to the family, it becomes more tolerable. You have no obligation like what bangkok guy is expected to do and its unfair to ask from you to do the same. Indirectly, bangkok guy wants you to take the blame for his inability to stay with the sister, but he went around with it by not choosing the ideal apartment for that. 

If you proceed with 2 bedroom apartment, the sister might be tempted or obligated to stay with you guyse forever. Staying in living room might gives a reason for the sister to find her own place sooner as well. Hence the insistent on one bedroom in the beginning, with a larger living room, to show that he at least thinks of his sister. 

Not sure if i made sense of bangkok guy ways of thinking. But from your story, this is what i understood lol

1 hour ago, spoon said:

Not sure if i made sense of bangkok guy ways of thinking. But from your story, this is what i understood lol

Yes, you have hit the nail on the head. 😆

2 hours ago, spoon said:

 

You have just captured saving face reality for thais in your story perfectly. What bangkok guy wants and what he must do can be very diff. While his family and sister might not be able to tolerate him not staying with his sister as the mother wants, if it comes from you, a farang, who has been providing to the family, it becomes more tolerable. You have no obligation like what bangkok guy is expected to do and its unfair to ask from you to do the same. Indirectly, bangkok guy wants you to take the blame for his inability to stay with the sister, but he went around with it by not choosing the ideal apartment for that. 

If you proceed with 2 bedroom apartment, the sister might be tempted or obligated to stay with you guyse forever. Staying in living room might gives a reason for the sister to find her own place sooner as well. Hence the insistent on one bedroom in the beginning, with a larger living room, to show that he at least thinks of his sister. 

Not sure if i made sense of bangkok guy ways of thinking. But from your story, this is what i understood lol

finally voice of reason

52 minutes ago, vinapu said:

finally voice of reason

Voice of Asian/Thai reason!

46 minutes ago, PeterRS said:

Voice of Asian/Thai reason!

50/50, spoon is not Thai