Rogie

I doubt you will be. Those that know what you are referring to have probably long since formed their own opinion. Those that have no inkling will just scratch their heads for a few seconds and move on to the next post.

I sense you are saying that in order to provoke a response, so here goes:
 
Yes, the individual gay man has little to fear. I know you have drawn a clear distinction between homosexual men and paedophiles and I would hope all readers of this message board are in accord with you. However, it is the way these arrests are reported, they are very high profile and the man or men who have committed the alleged offense(s) are, by dint of the fact the minors involved were boys, at least in the popular imagination, gay men. It is easy for those with an anti-gay agenda to capitalise on this. That makes it awkward for the likes of us.
 

Well I don't know for sure if every low season is worse than the year before because I don't visit Thailand often enough out of the October - May period to be able to see with my own eyes, but reading these boards for several years the same comments keep recurring, "this 'low season' is the worst I can remember" and similar. A recent topic was titled Lookin' for fun this VERY low season.
 
I wonder if comments such as these and discussions such as this one do not serve to put gay men off. I recall at one time somebody telling me "I love the off season, nice and quiet and more boys for me!". Fine if there are indeed lots of boys, and all he wanted to do was mess around like a true pteradactyl, but what about the atmosphere, the 'feel' of a place? Anyone other than possibly a first-time visitor must surely enjoy interacting with other people in a non-sexual way, other farang, joking with the boys in the outdoor bars whilst enjoying a drink, etc.
 
If I had to make a guess I would say talk of a really bad low season is more likely to put men off coming rather than Pattaya's popularity as a family destination. As alluded to in the previous post "I asked if the bars bothered them and he said not at all that the kids don't go outside the hotel grounds late night." I would imagine men in Pattaya for the sex are not going to let a few families holed-up in their hotels bother them in the slightest!
 
The other aspect of concern might be age - is the average age of the gay population either resident in or visiting Pattaya increasing? I would suspect the answer to that is 'yes' for those in the ex-pat community. Visitors I don't know, but unless Pattaya is getting a constant supply of fresh new faces of all ages then clearly it will start to decline. The lack of fresh new faces from China, Korea, etc has been mentioned already.

Memory is a very precious possession. Unless we are unlucky, we can access its treasure trove at will. I love it when an old or seemingly forgotten memory comes bubbling up from the depths. Memory adds such richness, depth and perspective to our lives. It can also be maddening and mysterious, you can have a name you ought to know on the tip of your tongue just as easily as by a bit of systematic mental effort you can recall that more obscure memory.
 
It's always good of people to feed back to us their experiences, tips on do's and don't's, new places opened or old ones closed, maybe a little anecdote here and there "But one welcome change, we thought, is the introduction of cute, lively coyote boys at each corner. I invited one for a drink. A Bangkok university student, he spoke some English and was really fun to be with." so the reader can judge for himself whether he'd like to tread a similar path. In the main there are two kinds of reports of this nature, those written by visitors and those by folk such as Fountainhall, an owl wise in the ways of Bangkok's varied strata. Some visitors report in breathless fashion as they run from place to place, their childlike enthusiasm either infectious or tedious depending on how we react to what they write. Others, old hands can come across as a bit predictable or cynical even - but they have the advantage of experience and perspective. Fountainhall, as a resident, knowing as he does his home turf intimately, reports honestly, as he finds it, without a trace of cynicism or world-weariness.

Good discussion and info. I didn't know how the masseurs were remunerated - basic wage plus 'tips' (for want of a better word).
 
Could one draw a parallel with an offed go-go boy versus a boy working in a beer bar who simply spends time chatting with the bar's customers? The happy-ending masseur gets a good 'tip' (the equivalent of the 'up to you') and the masseur undertaking the plain massage gets a lot less, but at least 100 baht seems reasonable with 200 baht a decent 'tip' for a good enjoyable massage.
 
Even if just a plain massage I like it when you can sense the masseur is enjoying what he's doing and so would tip more for someone doing a wholehearted one than if he was chatting to his co-masseurs, on his mobile or watching TV, although I have to admit there's nothing remarkable about most people's bodies so I guess it's understandable if the average masseur has difficulty summoning up much enthusiasm, especially in the case of an ordinary one hour no-frills massage. The happy-ending masseur might be expected to show a lot more enthusiasm, because if nothing else, he's going to be well remunerated.
 
 
Duck or grouse!
 
 
 

December quiz: where were these pictures taken?
 
During my travels, I came across an architectural element which is shown in all pictures. What is the name of this architectural element and where were these pictures taken (please be specific: town and place within this town).
 
I have been to four places (A, B, C, D) myself, pictures with date and time stamp were taken by me. Where my pictures are of low quality, I use pictures from internet. I haven’t been to the fifth place E, pictures are from internet. In some cases, I edited the pictures.
 
I will post links to the source for pictures from internet after the quiz is over. Sorry, there is no prize.
 
Please wait until December 24th before you post your reply to let everyone interested participate.
 
Place A:
 

 

 

 
Place B:
 

 

 
Place C:
 

 
Place D:
 

 

 
Place E:
 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-two/10536246/Alan-Turing-granted-Royal-pardon-by-the-Queen.html
 
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/dec/24/enigma-codebreaker-alan-turing-royal-pardon
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25495315

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-two/10536246/Alan-Turing-granted-Royal-pardon-by-the-Queen.html
 
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/dec/24/enigma-codebreaker-alan-turing-royal-pardon
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25495315

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-two/10536246/Alan-Turing-granted-Royal-pardon-by-the-Queen.html
 
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/dec/24/enigma-codebreaker-alan-turing-royal-pardon
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25495315

Mystery of rotating Egyptian statue solved
 
I'd love to be able to report I'd solved the mystery, perhaps the biggest on-going mystery since the failure to crack Beachlover's real identity: 
 
Rather more mundane it turns out. . .
 
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/10461987/Mystery-of-rotating-Egyptian-statue-solved.html

That's perfectly reasonable.
 
Anyone who hasn't visited Angkor Wat or Preah Vihear before can do the former and as Z says continue on to Preah Vihear by road. The Cambodian authorities are keen to build a road right up to the temple (i.e. not just to the foot of the cliff as at present). As far as I understand it seems that will now be possible. No doubt in time there will be coach parties leaving from Angkor / Siem Reap to do just that . . . I don't know the state of the road so maybe that's some way off yet. Z, would there not be minivans doing this run? Apart from being driven by madmen, they'd be a lot cheaper than a taxi (unless, as you say, you could fill a taxi and divide the fare by 3). 

Clearly you're the appol(o) of his eye

Cape versus toga
 
Maybe we should ask Khortose, are you more the caped crusader type or more prone to casting off your toga on the first date? . . . all 6 yards of it !!  (about 6 metres for you metricians). 
 
Cape
 

 
Toga
 

There are about 500 million Buddhists worldwide, but it's unclear exactly when in history this religion began. The Buddha's life story spread first through oral tradition, and little physical evidence about Buddhism's early years has been found.

Now, scientists for the first time have uncovered archaeological evidence of when the Buddha's monumentally influential life occurred. Excavations in Nepal date a Buddhist shrine, located at what is said to be the Buddha's birthplace, to the sixth century B.C.

The research, published in the journal Antiquity, describes the remains of a timber structure about the same size and shape as a temple built at the same site in the third century B.C.

Archaeologists also found reason to think that a tree grew at the center of this ancient structure, lending support to the traditional story that the Buddha's mother held onto a tree branch while giving birth to him.

"This is one of those rare occasions when belief, tradition, archaeology and science actually come together," lead study author Robin Coningham, professor at Durham University in the United Kingdom, said at a press briefing Monday.

If this study is correct, the Buddha's actual life could have overlapped with a popularly recognized time frame of 563-483 B.C. But lots of other date ranges for the Buddha have been tossed around -- some scholars say 448 to 368 B.C., for instance.
 
 
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/11/25/world/asia/buddha-birthplace-buddhist-shrine/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

My thanks to all the posters on Gay Thailand for sharing their thoughts, opinions, wise advise and experiences .
 

As a capitalist American, I know that if you got it, you should flaunt it. .  Besides that this is our normal gym wear.  Boy is 31, and we will soon be married in the USA.

Clearly you're the appol(o) of his eye

Clearly you're the appol(o) of his eye

Sometimes things are just way the are. There is no figuring out.
You have to decide whether to stick with him or bail. My experience is that things
that bother us don't get better with time and stay the same or get worse. I am thinking
about yaba use and alcohol abuse. It also extends to guys that aren't interested in sex
with you. If it all works, stay the course, if it doesn't move on.
Nobody listens to advise when it comes to relationships with Thai guys. You will get different
advise from every poster. In the end, its up to you.
Farangs ask but don't really listen and they shouldn't. Nobody knows whats best for you, but you.
 
;

The Land of Nod ... refers to the mythical land of sleep, a pun on Land of Nod (Gen. 4:16). To “go off to the land of Nod” plays with the phrase to “nod off”, meaning to go to sleep. The first recorded use of the phrase to mean "sleep" comes from Jonathan Swift in his Complete Collection of Polite and Ingenious Conversation (1737) and Gulliver's Travels. A later instance of this usage appears in the poem The Land of Nod by Robert Louis Stevenson from the A Child's Garden of Verses and Underwoods (1885) collection.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_of_Nod

Interesting observation. The Russians were unsmilingly sober and by implication the (non-Russian) falungs were a little under-the-influence and despite that giving off a more pervading feeling of unhappiness. Maybe that's a foretaste of Pattaya life in the not-too-distant future when Russians, instead of flocking to Pattaya en famille, 'spirit' themselves off on their tod to avail themselves of formerly forbidden fruit only to fall into the well-trodden trap sprung by many a falung before them, to which one may add to the "libido, funds and friends gone", stores selling bottles of cheap vodka with 'authentic' Cyrillic script sufficiently tempting to anaesthetise them back into the comfort zone of Mother Russia. 
 
Sorry, I went on a bit there, now back to your far more interesting experiences . . .
 
Vinapu, 
 
Keep going full steam ahead with your excellent reports. As already acknowledged, your fondness for massages is most impressive! 
 
 
(Mods: I tried to upload a pic to accompany this post but wasn't able to. Anyone else?)

Mystery of rotating Egyptian statue solved
 
I'd love to be able to report I'd solved the mystery, perhaps the biggest on-going mystery since the failure to crack Beachlover's real identity: 
 
Rather more mundane it turns out. . .
 
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/10461987/Mystery-of-rotating-Egyptian-statue-solved.html

Please don't do that Bob; just think of this as airing dirty laundry.

Now, where's Jomtien when you need him?

Preah Vihear Part 2

I’ve deliberately omitted any reference or comment regarding the current dispute between Thailand and Cambodia.

Once again, text is taken from Lonely Planet 'Thailand' 11th edition Sept 2005. Chief editor: Joe Cummings. Prices correct as of March 2007 when my Thai friend and I visited the site and these photos were taken.

Setting the scene

Preah Vihear (Khao Phra Wihan in Thai) is one of the region's great Angkor-period monuments. Straddling a 600 metre high cliff on the brow of the Dangrek (Dong Rek) escarpment and accessed by a series of stepped naga approaches, the large temple complex towers over the plains of Cambodia, offering dreamy views and some beautiful and evocative ruins.

We accessed Preah Vihear via the Prasat Khao Phra Wihan National Park, as seen in part 1 posted above.

A visitor centre marks the path into Cambodia and up to the temple – from here it is a 600 metre walk to the border, where you pay 5 baht to have your passport photocopied, and another 400 metres to the main entrance, where the Cambodian authorities collect their 200 baht fee.

Some history

The temple was constructed over two centuries under a succession of Khmer kings, beginning with Rajendravarman II in the mid-10th C. and ending with Suryavarman II in the early 12th C. (it was the latter who commanded the construction of Angkor Wat). The hill was sacred to Khmer Hindus for at least 500 years before the completion of the temple complex, however, and there were smaller brick monuments on the site prior to the reign of Rajendravarman II.

The temple complex is semirestored. During Khmer Rouge occupation, which lasted until Pol Pot’s death in 1998, the site suffered from the pilfering of artifacts – lintels and other carvings in particular – although some of the smuggled art has been intercepted and will eventually be returned to the site. One naga balustrade of around 30 metres is still intact; the first two gopura have all but fallen down and many of the buildings are roofless, but abundant examples of stone carving are intact and visible.
 
The first photo shows the steps up to the temple


 
Looking down the steps








 
The main prasat tower in the final court at the summit is in need of major restoration before the viewer can get a true idea of its former magnificence. Many of the stone carvings from the prasat are either missing or lie buried in nearby rubble. The galleries leading to the prasat have fared better and have even kept their arched roofs.
 











 


The doorways to the third gopuras have been nicely preserved and one (the inner door facing south) is surmounted by a well-carved stone lintel depicting Shiva and his consort Uma sitting on Nandi (Shiva’s bull), under the shade of a symmetrised tree.



A Vishnu ‘creation’ lintel is also visible on the second gopura. It shows Vishny climbing the churning stick.


 

 


Finally, a word of warning from Lonely Planet

Until 1998, the area around the temple witnessed heavy fighting between Khmer Rouge guerillas and the Phnom Penh governments, and landmines and artillery pieces still litter the surrounding forest – stick to the designated safety lanes leading to the ruins.

Also recommended

If you enjoy looking at Khmer temple ruins (in addition to Angkor Wat in Cambodia of course), there is another excellent Khmer temple complex at Phanom Rung in Buriram province; one big difference is Phanom Rung has been restored, and is well worth a visit if you are in the area. I think it would be difficult to visit both Phanom Rung and Preah Vihear on the same day. Both are ideally suited to leisurely independent travellers – especially keen photographers. For anyone interested in visiting Phanom Rung I’d suggest basing yourself in Surin, which has some decent hotels. Many of these sites are not easy to get to, so as I’ve already mentioned in a previous post, having your own transport (or perhaps hiring a taxi or booking the services of a local guide with his own transport) makes things run much more smoothly.

Be sure to go in the dry season, it cannot be enjoyable visiting in the rainy season as these kinds of historical sights are very exposed with little shelter on a day of continuous rain.