macaroni21

@reader if you are referring to Surasak BTS station, then it is still some 700 metres walking to Heaven Sauna* - quite challenging for @Olddaddy I think. Then again, if he's going to take a taxi from Bally Suites to DJ Station, then taking a taxi to Heaven will feel almost as near. * I would take a Silom Road bus instead.

@roughjock is right. The Olivia shops (there are a few) are Type 2 massage parlours. The masseurs and masseuses often wait outside the shopfront and will be aghast if you openly discuss sex right there. Neither will the receptionist or manager discuss this. Moreover, the default operating model here is that the therapist is assigned to you by rotation though the receptionist is likely to ask if you want Man or Lady. If you fancy a particular chap, you will have to assert yourself and say, "No I don't want this ugly, lame, acne-ridden fella (no offence intended, buddy); I want the other guy who just walked past us smelling like a chimney and going into the backroom to take a dump, but who looks like Adonis to me." Because no discussion about extras can take place in the front of the shop, this is the kind of place where you take your chances. The Adonis may or may not do anything other than massage. If he is looking for extra tips, he will signal one way or another after the two of you have gone into the privacy of the massage room. But then you will have to negotiate the compensation. However, since they all know that a male customer answering "Man" to the receptionist's question "You want Man or Lady?" is 99% likely to be gay, there is a high chance that something supplementary to massage will be offered at the halfway point in the session. But many will not agree to receiving penetration. A recent story about a neighbour of Olivia's is this one. One more thing: I have had the experience of coming out of the massage room in towel, on my way to the showers, only to see a near naked woman in towel coming out of the same shower. Memory indelibly seared into me. These shops take women customers too. The boy's finger that explores your hole was also exploring some woman's cunt one hour earlier.

Not sure about the connection that you're alluding to between a discounted price and Patpong. If anything, I associate Patpong with overpriced, like the drinks, boys and tips.

Let's hope they know what's needed to make a bar successful and work REALLY HARD at it. But, all reinventions of businesses need investment, and I hope they haven't spent their last bahts paying the former owner, but instead have enough left over to invest anew. The easiest and cheapest way to find out what's needed to revive the bar is to read this forum🥰. One can learn a lot about what regular visitors to Bangkok want to see in a bar. Here's a quick run-down of improvements needed: 1. Boys: The boys they have are physique-wise competitive with the market. They could be presented better (lose the red pants and T-shirts). They should be the ones bringing drinks to customers (not waiters) so that opportunities are immediately created for a personal smile and interaction. In the process, lay off the waiters and save costs. 2. Offer a private dance option, e.g. 500 baht for 15 minutes in a small screened off corner. Hands-on allowed, but no cumming. 3. Create a system for customer feedback (online platform) about boys' performance after take-out. Incentivise feedback by offering a discount code in response to feedback received. Customer can redeem the discount code for 50% the cost of a drink or off-fee within, say, 12 months. (I think McDonald's or Burgerking has something similar in several countries). Naturally, use the feedback so obtained to (a) get rid of duds and (b) give a "best performer for the month" cash award to which boy gats the best agreggate feedback. 4. Pricing: To regain market share quickly, they need to run a series of promotions over the next 6 - 12 months. For example: One free boy-drink for every customer drink. It saves the customer 400 - 500 baht, but the cost of pouring an extra drink is probably no more than 20 baht for the liquid and maybe 50 baht commission to the boy. This encourages customers to call a boy to his side, thereby increasing chances for offs. Makes it profitable for boys to work there as well when chances of off are enhanced. Another example: First 20 customers of the evening gets 50% off first drink, and 50% off the off-fee. Makes itself look busy, not half dead. 5. Make the show more interactive and fun: Example, spin a roulette or draw-a-card game with five rounds where each winner (customer) of a round gets to strip a boy of one item of clothing. Needless to say - last winner gets to strip the underwear. Another example, Hire a beefy boy. Have a lucky draw for a customer to oil the boy up for muscle posing, then have another lucky draw for another customer to wipe him down. (Can do similar for a soaping/shower show.) 6. Marketing: Post regularly on Facebook. Open a profile (and post regularly) on WeChat, Sina Weibo, Instagram, TikTok, if they haven't already. Not difficult to handle multiple languages using online translation tools. Post a picture or short video and write/translate a simple caption.

There is an existing SM bar (with girls) at that dangerously tight turn (Patpong Soi 2) midway between Foodland and the Silom Road end of Patpong Soi 2. It's been in business for a very long time, so maybe if you're right that it's going to be an SM bar, somebody thinks there's a growing market for this?

@vinapu has given several good possibilities as to why the tipped boy did not call. Simply it's European thing - I agree. We often forget what is practiced in our own cultures may not apply elsewhere. I can think of one more reason. In both this case at Hotmale and at Moonlight, you were expecting the boy to call. I don't know what exactly you wrote in your note but it seems you wrote a mobile number. Maybe @reader or @colmx or others who know a lot of boys can advise, but I have a sense that the boys no longer use "traditional" phone numbers for calling. They all use LINE, and I don't think it is possible to add a "friend" in this app just simply from a mobile number, yet without first adding a "friend", there is no way to follow up with a chat or call. To add a "friend", one needs the LINE ID or LINE QR code. And so even if a boy were interested in contact after receiving your tip-note, there would be no way for him to call back. Having said that, I'm not that au fait with LINE app since I only use it when I am in Thailand, so perhaps others can confirm or refute what I just said - it would be interesting for the rest of us to know LINE's protocols better anyway.

I hate using the touchpad too. It's very limiting.

I have to distance myself from this comment. I need to say this because the above was in response to something I had written. My understanding is that @12is12 is not a frequent visitor to Thailand and therefore may not be aware of the many unstated "customs" in this country's male entertainment industry. LIke all of us, when we're in unfamiliar territory, we get surprised when things work differently. As @12is12 said, he wasn't offended by the lack of contact from #10; he was mystified. I was just trying to explain why things may have developed the way they did. Please do not use my comments to cast aspersions on anybody else's character. The point isn't to point fingers; the point is to use such experiences (all of us) for learning. Isn't that what sharing is about?

This was regarding Jupiter, which has perhaps 20-25 boys in the rotation. What's your estimate as to what percent of them will not go out with male customers, but only with women? As for The One, thanks for spending 500 baht just to find out and sharing your "research" with us. It's very much what I expect the situation to be. They're probably locked into a long lease, so it may be a painfully slow demise.

I hesitate to jump into this thread because feelings are involved. But maybe I should just say that if I put myself in #10's shoes, I too would not have called back. I would think: this guy was in the bar. He could have asked me to sit with him, bought me a drink ( commission 50 or 100 baht) and paid the off fee like other customers do. Why is he slipping me a piece of paper? What is his intention? What risks are involved here? Then this info that he does not speak English adds another very obvious reason. How is he to call if he does not have the language capability? If a total stranger asked me to call, and I know I would be expected to speak in Nepali - I language I do not speak - would I call? So the best thing to do is to learn from this experience and not try unusual ways of reaching the boys. Too many unexpected factors may complicate things. #10 is also right to not reply to @srvhakko's enquiry however well-intentioned. Professional courtesy in this business must be to avoid talking about one potential customer to another.

How many straight boys, anywhere around the world, would wear thongs that rise so high up the bums?

@Travellerdave That is encouraging news!

@bkkmfj2648 A few things crossed my mind as I read your wonderful reports; you've probably thought of them too, but I'd like to know how you weigh these issues: 1. Seeing the empty field around your tower block and noting your comment that the seaside town is only half built, do you anticipate noisy, dusty construction activity right in front of your balcony in months/years to come? I am aware that you do not yet have a long lease on the apartment, but you seem to like that block and apartment. 2. Although I don't consider a one hour commute all that bad - it only requires proper planning for one's own errands - I wonder if it will deter grindr and other contacts from coming to you? Maybe a higher rate of no-shows? Maybe you'd have to cover their Grab cost to and fro (which may add USD 30 to your outlay each time). Especially if the hungry boys are mostly working in the business outsourcing industry of IT Park.

A similar thing happened to me once at Gbeat, except that the boy had "a motorbike accident", which might well be true because I wasn't even asked to wait a further 20 - 30 minutes. Or maybe it wasn't true. But the shop had 2 other boys waiting around for selection. Didn't Phetboy have other boys hanging around - though they might not have been to your taste? Or was it more important to make a point by going off to another shop? I would likely think that way too if it's the second time.

Haha, I am reminded of a Grab ride from my hotel to Suvarnabhumi. Nowadays the Grabcar can be a regular taxi taking bookings from Grab, and that's what I got. 5 minutes into the ride, the driver turned around and asked me whether I wanted to go via the tollway. The implied ask was for me to pay the rolls. I simply reminded him "I booked you through Grab and I pay Grab." He asked again, "tollway?" I responded something about how Grab would want him to take the shortest and fastest route. For added measure, I said that Grab has a feedback mechanism though I don't think he understood those words. Nonetheless he understood my tone of voice. He took the tollway and paid. I know that Grab can add the toll charges to the final bill, but I also know that customers have been scammed by paying the driver for the tolls and then finding the toll charges added to the final bill too.

What happened to free market principles and independent pricing decisions?

Yeah, I too prefer to host in my hotel since these shops' rooms tend to be too basic. The problem is that few hotels allow joiners, so it's always good to know of hotels that don't mind guests.

I see this quite often, and in many countries. It's a problem of software design, but it's so basic an issue that it's amazing how unaware software engineers are that this is an issue. The craziest was Turkish Airlines. It had that problem in all its self check-in terminals, demanding a Turkish country code and no other and in a mandatory field. And the same software was used at whichever airport around the world. Here's an international airline whose software designers didn't imagine that passengers might not have Turkish phone numbers? Needless to say, the 5 or 6 self check-in terminals were hardly used. Meanwhile the human check-in counters had horrible queues. I hope they have realised their mistake and corrected it by now.

Thank you. This is useful information, especially the part about a joiner-friendly hotel, though in this instance, you used one of the shop's rooms.

I second what @vinapu says. If there is a medical problem with your back, seek professional advice. However much we may be experts on sex opportunities in Thailand, I wouldn't trust any member's advice re medical issues. Also, bear in mind that rules on false advertising may not be as rigorous in Thailand as in most western countries. Just because a shop says "certified chiropractor" doesn't mean what we may think it means. Certified by who? Certified by themselves?

A 120-minute massage is too long. Even trained masseurs may not have the repertory to fill that much time, and anyway they get tired, so the value of the last 30 minutes is questionable. If they don't get tired, it means the massage was hopeless in which case you're still wasting money. What about having enough time for extras? If a shop only offers handjob or B2B, that usually means the boys expect to fulfill that part of the programme in little more than 15 minutes. A 90-minute session is more than enough.

@bkkmfj2648 One thing you don't seem to be checking out are the supermarkets. If I were planning on staying for months in a city, I would want an apartment with at least a small kitchen so I can prepare my own breakfasts or small meals if I don't feel like going out. A good supermarket stocked with the produce I would need would be essential. I have seen smaller Korean cities where the supermarkets don't have cheese, for example, or parts of American cities whose shops hardly stock fresh greens. Or Chinese cities where western style bread is unknown. However you may not plan on having an apartment with a kitchen, so maybe the above is irrelevant.

I haven't looked closely, but I think the BTS platforms are built for 6 carriages. The BTS and MRT systems were already packed when I visited in December, It can hardly get worse now that the government has mandated free rides. But it is also because of government interference like this that the system is still running on 4 carriages (and sub-optimum frequency too). As I mentioned in a recent post https://shamelessmacktwo.travel.blog/2025/01/02/bangkok-miscellany-nov-dec-2024/ the government ordered the BTS system operator to build extensions to the suburbs, then mandated free trial runs, but has not paid what they owed to the system operator. The dispute is mired in court suits. BTS is limping along with perennial cash flow problems as a result. How are they to buy additional rolling stock to alleviate the crowding?

+1

@Shax used the word "fun", generally interpreted as sex. The difficulty with that is that we don't know if he meant insertive sex or "outside" sex. In places like S'sense, I think most boys would offer a handjob or body-to-body (though some may not) but i think insertive work would be beyond their limits. Basically my advice is to look to different places for different things. Massage shops for massage, sex shops or gogo bars for sex.