Daily Rate Woes

[acs4l]

I'm new to coming to Thailand and experiencing the Bangkok bar scene. My first trip was a few months ago and it was a bit rocky - a few duds but I managed to click with a Lao boy from a bar in Silom.

For the record, this is a straight guy. He's not the star of his bar - has a decent slim body and average looks but he made up for it by being enthusiastic with a good attitude while the more gorgeous boys were acting stuck up and aloof.

We did short time then dinner and exchanged social media details but I left Thailand the next day. Back at home, we would be in contact semi-regularly and we did some video chatting about when I was coming back.

During one of our calls, he brought up me paying him 5,000 baht a day to spend time with me. I expressed that 5K a day was an exorbitant amount but that we should wait to discuss it more in person to which he agreed.

He never explicitly asked me to send money in my months away from Thailand but always sent messages or posted statuses complaining about there not being customers, having to eat mama noodles every day, working night after night with no financial windfall, etc. but is always posting pictures and videos out with his buds drinking, clubbing or at karaoke.

So fast forward to this week, I'm in Bangkok. He meets me at my hotel, we go out for a meal, come back and have a fun night but come the morning he brings up the sordid topic of coin again.

I'm here for a month, the bar fine is 500 baht per day which comes out to 15k baht and he lowered his fee to 4k baht a day. I counter-offered to pay him 2.5K a day, plus covering all his daily expenses. I should also mention that his birthday is going to fall on a day while I'm in country (confirmed true by his ID card) and he's already asked me what I'm going to get him as a present.

This changed the mood and he got pouty. I tried explaining that I'm here for 30 days and that this is a guaranteed 75k (on top of me paying for everything plus his bday gift) instead of having to stand on his feet all night praying for a customer during low season but he insisted on 4k.

He said he was leaving and asked me to pay him 5,000 baht. There's no way in heck I actually owed him that much for one night but I just forked it over to avoid problems.

I walked him downstairs and while we were outside, he said he was hungry and I offered to treat him to food again. After eating we passed a barbershop and he wanted to get a haircut so I gave him money for that, too, while I sat and waited for him.

He then wants to rest back my hotel because he was tired and upon arriving to my room, he flops on the couch fully dressed facing away from me and starts to watch tik tok videos on his phone and then falls asleep.

I suppose this is because he lives in a hovel of an apartment with no AC so staying with me is better than going back there. He stays like that for hours while I do work on my laptop until he gets up to go back to his apartment and so he can go back to work at the bar.

He holds out his hand and asks for taxi money, which I did not give. I made up an excuse about how I needed to hit the ATM and I'd reimburse him later. 

After he leaves in a huff, I'm left scratching my head with a bad taste in my mouth after my first day back in Thailand. 

Any advice from more learned forum members? Was I being a cheapskate? He has a few friends at the bar who live in his same building so it could be a losing face/competition thing among them but don't know for sure.

[Marc308]

Oh gosh that is quite a sad story. I think you learned a valuable lesson -- second meetings after months often don't go well. I think what happens if we remember the great experience of the initial meeting, probably enhance it in our minds, and as horniness sets in and time approaches for the next visit, anticipation gets the best of us. We expect something which really can't be delivered. Straight boys are, err, straight, so obviously their emotional attachment is going to different than ours. I don't think you were a cheapskate at all. I just Mr Lao Boy had a different agenda in mind. 

[Travelingguy]

I would have cut this off very early with “I just don’t think this is going to work out.” 

Just move on.

[vinapu]

3 hours ago, acs4l said:

 Was I being a cheapskate? He has a few friends at the bar who live in his same building so it could be a losing face/competition thing among them but don't know for sure.

No , absolutely you were not cheapskate. While those days quite a few boys may ask 4000 or 5000 for overnight, certainly that should not be a case when boy is staying with you for several days for two reasons :

a/ you are fully entitled to substantial volume discount as boy secures income for that same period

b/if boy stay with you , not only you will pay off fee  but for his meals  and entertainment. You both go to the bar - you pay yours and his drink so 500 becomes 1000 etc.

while 2500 / day may be on lower side is still very reasonable and I'd say 3000 is absolute maximum.

fact that you paid him 5000 to avoid scene is OK but after that you made two serious mistakes - buying his meal and paying for his barber. Nothing wrong with that in general but not after you have feeling you already overpaid him for your overnight session.

Good to hear you regained  your sense and refused taxi money, I would be using plain language " I already gave you enough ( or plenty ) " - this is what I say when they ask for taxi money. 

That part of your report "He then wants to rest back my hotel because he was tired and upon arriving to my room, he flops on the couch fully dressed facing away from me and starts to watch tik tok videos on his phone and then falls asleep." should be warning signal for you.

If you , God Almighty forbids , go with your plan , expect more of that day after day to a point that you will wonder who really is in charge of your space and time. It's different story to take boy for a trip when both of you are travelling which is different dynamics than host and overstaying welcome guest

Do you really want to play host to somebody who treats you that way and gets paid for that ?

four advices from me since you asked although I have my doubts you had me in mind when you said 'learned forum members" :

A/ if sex is great engage him for overnights or short times as often as you wish, pay him and send him home after each session but forget about having him as permanent resident as fast it will become taking toll on you  and your vacation time due to need to entertain him and bar with his antics 

B/ invite him ( or any other boy you meet)   for a meal and pay for his taxi but ONLY if you feel like , not because he asks. Otherwise taxi money of 100 today will become 300 by next Wednesday etc.

C/ do not be concerned about him losing face with his friends. You are on vacations , not on boys therapeutic session. It's for him to navigate that with his friends

D/ you may  want to read my last trip report as I put myself in the same situation for a week month ago.  Difference was that my boy was well rehearsed before and did not put any direct financial requests. Still it was tiring  to have somebody in the room constantly or asking him to leave when I wanted to have some time for myself (and perhaps other guest) . And of course all those expenses added up

[vinapu]

5 minutes ago, Travelingguy said:

I would have cut this off very early with “I just don’t think this is going to work out.” 

Just move on.

+1

[ichigo]

This is my opinion only and other folks will have differing opinions - but why would you want to spend your month-long holiday with a singular guy when there are literally hundreds (thousands?) of guys readily available for you? Sure, you can start building a list of regulars, but there are just so many lovely guys out there! 🤤

[zombie]

Dear oh dear oh dear oh dear.

Listen OP.

You are being far too nice and rather than being a cheapskate you are too generous. Others have given you detailed advice as above which I cannot disagree with.

The nub of the issue is you letting want-to-be Hi So Lao to control the relationship.

End it now politely but firmly and find another where you are in control.

There are plenty available!

 

[kokopelli3]

As zombie  posted above, drop him now as it will only get worse!

[floridarob]

1 hour ago, kokopelli3 said:

As zombie  posted above, drop him now as it will only get worse!

100%.... He would've been out the door at the mention of 5k per day..... and a haircut, I have clippers, I'd offer to give him a haircut.

I give OP credit to have the 🏀🏀 to write honestly about his day.... I'm sure everyone's blood pressure was going up at each step, thinking how they'd never do that, when in reality some would do exactly the same and never talk about it, lol

[jason1975]

2500 baht is the current short time rate for a guy from bar in Silom.

And since short time generally means around 2 to 3 hours, to expect a guy to accept 2500 baht to stay with customer for one full day (even if it's for 2 weeks) is too little.

[Slut1215]

my my, junk the guy...just grab another guy at the same bar...

[spoon]

Geez, so many to pick what to say. Luckily, most people here already says a lot so ill try to cover what people havent said yet. 

First. No request of money by text when you are at home, but keep complaining about no customer. For me, if the guy is one of my regular guy, thats something i would appreciate to know. But since you've only took him once, so if its were me, id be put off already. Even guy who i took once, but kept bugging me daily to come to his bar, would make me think twice revisiting him on the same trip lol but this is just me. Like @ichigo mentioned above, why settle with one guy when there are so many choices in bangkok?

Second. Requesting to spend a day with him for 5k. Not sure if i miss anything, but from reading your post, he asked you to spend a day with him for 5k, or did he asked to spend your whole trip with you for 5k a day? Or did he just mentioned his day rate is 5k and you assumed/ or you yourself wanted to take him for the whole month? Anyway, why i asked might have something to do with his refusal to negotiate the rate.

If he is the one who asked you to take him off bar for your whole trip which is a month, i figure he should be more willing to accept a discount. I dont want to go into how much money is worth the rate for hin as i know nothing about him and his quality of service and i dont think all guys in the bars should only charge a fixed rate, regardless how popular they are. You yourselves should be the best person to judge how much he is worth for you, or how much you are willing to pay him for his company.

If you were the one that asked him about staying with you for the whole 30 days when he brought up the daily rate topic, then before he even want to think about accepting lower rate, he probably think about all the things he need to change, any plans or future customer who already told him they are coming, or maybe a trip back home for a sister birthday he might miss etc so his 4k a day request might be what he think the rate that is worth all the trouble. As you say, he is straight, so spending a month with another guy might not be his first choice, despite the money, unless the money is worth the hassle.i suppose?

Third. Did you go further in details with him what does staying for a whole day really means? Basically the arrangement. How many sex a day? What is your plan for the day and the night? Will he need to pack his clothes and basically move in with you and stay for the whole month, or he is allowed to go back to his apartment daily? Seems like petty but i think this discussion is important to have before i even consider taking someone on a long term hire. Usually if its my regular, a lot of these questions i already know the answer to, and he probably already know what im expecting of him too, so my discussion will probably more on logistical things during daytime. And by having this discussion, you could see his reaction on your demands and plans, and can probably see if hiring him all day long term is a good thing or not. Going straight to negotiating rate for me, is a tad forward and seems to tell him that he cant do anything to earn more, just what you are willing to pay. 

Lastly, all the behaviour you see after you insist and 2.5k and him at 4k, i see that as he already gave up on the idea of you hiring him daily, in fact maybe even for you to continue to be his customer, so he just taking as much as he can before he bails, or you bails, whichever comes first. 

If you still want him, he would just stick to that 5k overnight rate you gave him. If not, at least he already extracted as much baht as he can from you so he can move on too. To him, why stick to one customer when  there plenty more to come.

My advise, only do long term hire with someone you are already comfortable with, and have hired few times overnight or have taken a short trip once or twice before. And be clear with your expectation when hiring him longer term. And on the price, if both of you cant arrived to the same agreement, move on. He clearly did. I know we want the boys to understand our logic of bulk discount but im sure he also has some doubts that there will be all smooth sailing for the whole 30 days so that 75k you consider as guaranteed income, for him, might not be guaranteed as he only knows you for merely 1 night and one short time before.

 

[vinapu]

12 hours ago, floridarob said:

.. and a haircut, I have clippers, I'd offer to give him a haircut.
 

that I'd never suggest even to my worst enemy

[vinapu]

12 hours ago, floridarob said:

I give OP credit to have the 🏀🏀 to write honestly about his day.... I'm sure everyone's blood pressure was going up at each step, thinking how they'd never do that, when in reality some would do exactly the same and never talk about it, lol

+1

 

[vinapu]

7 hours ago, jason1975 said:

2500 baht is the current short time rate for a guy from bar in Silom.

And since short time generally means around 2 to 3 hours, to expect a guy to accept 2500 baht to stay with customer for one full day (even if it's for 2 weeks) is too little.

while there's something in what you said  above I'd say it's for boy to assess if such offer  makes or doesn't make sense for him.

2500 a day for a week is 17500. I'm not sure how many guys pull that much ., specially now in the low season. Some do , plenty don't I'd  venture,  so given that option they may go for it with smile, specially considering that all other expenses , mainly food,  will be paid as well. 

Truth is , only boy really knows his financial situation and ,so to speak, his price . On the same token only we know how much it makes sense for us to pay- one night it may be 10000 for dream boy we finally nailed, other night we may stand firm  at , say 3000  for overnight knowing that if that boy doesn't accept there are two in our Line list who will.

 

[vinapu]

4 hours ago, spoon said:

Even guy who i took once, but kept bugging me daily to come to his bar, would make me think twice revisiting him on the same trip lol but this is just me.

 

not just you , rest assured

[floridarob]

26 minutes ago, vinapu said:

that I'd never suggest even to my worst enemy

You've seen my haircut 😆

[vinapu]

2 minutes ago, floridarob said:

You've seen my haircut 😆

answer is yes

[12is12]

He wants to get as much money as possible from u, while giving as little as possible. He exhibited ALL day that he doesnt think he owes u anything, while u owe him everything.

TOXIC

[Olddaddy]

Please don't take my advice the wrong way ,I'm not trying to e condescending or rude 

But you seem to be getting too "personal" with him....he is a business contractor NOT your friend or boyfriend....it's nothing personal,,,strictly business 

If you want a boyfriend then look for a real one , this guy wants your money not your friendship

Obviously he is GOOD at his job that you want to hire him continually and good on him for that but please realise that it's all a business act just like the real estate agent who wants to sell my apartment who called me a friend when he only known me a day etc.  .

The boy may not even be like you see /imagine in REAL life ,it may be all a business act and good on him for giving you that experience 

No different paying say FloridaRob or Vinapu 5k a day ,they will talk nice to you ,listen to your problems, give you that boyfriend experience etc but it's the money they are after not a real relationship , it's a business ,he is a business man not a real boyfriend 

As for him asking for taxi money ,you should of worked this out before hiring him , you should of said including everything the daily fee ( except food of course) 

I just hired a locksmith off Airtasker app to fix my door lock on my apartment 

I put a reasonable price down $200 and a person accepted and  friendly guy arrived Chinese guy 

After the job he said , I have to charge you extra $20 for parking outside in the street meter 

I said nope... despite his fake friendliness through the job,  the fee includes the parking and whatever I told him , he pouted...but ...but...$200 dollar only for fix door lock he said.....I said you accept the job no mention of extra for parking...and your lunch money...$200 it is . now f..off !! 

So he uses or tries that tactic on everyone, not this little black duck ! 🦆 🦆 

 

 

[zoomomancs]

After taking a man for two 3 night trips away from Bangkok and paying him 4,000 bt a day I was ready to spend some time alone. He asked if I would like to continue taking him at 2,000 bt a day (plus the bar fine for the bar of course). I didn't continue with him but we parted on good terms and I have taken him off since. I'm not suggesting driving their price down but I'm sure they look at the entire package we're offering eg. Are we going somewhere interesting and fun and having a good time? Are we easy going in the room and let them sleep when they want? Do we involve them in decisions about what we're doing and where we're eating?  

[floridarob]

6 hours ago, Olddaddy said:

No different paying say FloridaRob or Vinapu 5k a day

For you 5k a day.... anyone else, paying for dinner is sufficient, I can't speak for @vinapu but I know he has more pockets to fill and eats at fancy 7* restaurant  😉

 

 

6 hours ago, Olddaddy said:

just like the real estate agent who wants to sell my apartment who called me a friend

Is he the one that told you to remodel your bathroom?

 

[jason1975]

9 hours ago, zoomomancs said:

After taking a man for two 3 night trips away from Bangkok and paying him 4,000 bt a day I was ready to spend some time alone. He asked if I would like to continue taking him at 2,000 bt a day (plus the bar fine for the bar of course). I didn't continue with him but we parted on good terms and I have taken him off since. I'm not suggesting driving their price down but I'm sure they look at the entire package we're offering eg. Are we going somewhere interesting and fun and having a good time? Are we easy going in the room and let them sleep when they want? Do we involve them in decisions about what we're doing and where we're eating?  

4k a day for holiday together seems fair price to pay.

[Daniu]

It's possible to see the situation from his perspective regarding the pricing. What you're asking for appears to involve more extensive demands than a standard bar interaction. The request for what sounds like: 30 consecutive days of engagement, with a new customer, with daily BFE, from a straight man, and in a non-native language, sounds like a significant commitment. This could explain why only a minor reduction in his rate might not be appealing

[a-447]

For what it's worth, I think he is playing you like a violin, as he knows you are new to this business in Thailand.

He has taken advantage of your generosity and looks forward to you just handing over money.

I'm a big believer in the bulk discount. You offered 2500 baht per day. There is no way a guy in a bar can earn that every day over an extended period - unless he is a bar star.

If a guy starts asking me to buy him things, that's it for me. He needs to know I am not going to be his ATM. Bye! 

It's important for me to sit down with the guy at the beginning and come to a mutually satisfactory arrangement regarding price and what we expect from each other. I think the arrangement must be good for both of us. I am aware of the financial advantage I have and so am always willing to err on the side of generosity. But I refused to be taken for granted.

I have had two regular guys in Thailand for years. The reason why were are still seeing each other is because we have an arrangement where I am a little on the generous side - I'm the one who suggests we go shopping - and in return they give me the boyfriend experience. Sex is always on tap whenever I want it, but twice a day is now enough for me, so they don't find that side of the relationship too arduous.

If I were you, I'd ditch him immediately and look for someone else. But I wouldn't embarrass him by chosing a guy from his bar.