Londoner

I asked my partner of twelve years- an ex-money boy in Pattaya- about this  very issue three weeks ago when I was in Thailand.
Specifically, I asked how much he would pay a  a guy from Planet Romeo or Hornet if he were to arrange a meeting at our hotel.
His answer was definitive; 1000 bht.
I taxed him on this; he's thirty-three and very attractive. Surely, I said, someone who looks like you wouldn't have to pay the same as an ageing falang? surely the guys on Hornet et al would be happy to accept a lower amount from you?
His answer was much the same as Firecat's; the guys are making money to pay rent ,pay for food and often to send money home.
 
"Fun" doesn't pay the rent..
 
I've learnt a lot about his two years in Pattaya. He is now doing well financially in the north of the country but being the guy that I love, he has an understanding of the situation our Pattaya friends are in. He finds the concept of under-paying distasteful and alien to his religious beliefs.....however cute we think we are. Or in my case, not at all.
 
At the same time, he speaks with some affection of those years. In particular, he's grateful for the comradeship; the way the bar-boys looked after each other. Those who'd been successful one night would buy dinner for his friends, they'd borrow money in extremis- in general terms  they'd look after each other. Particularly newbies.
 
He would appreciate Firecat's comments. He speaks from experience. And my own two decades of visiting support him.

I asked my partner of twelve years- an ex-money boy in Pattaya- about this  very issue three weeks ago when I was in Thailand.
Specifically, I asked how much he would pay a  a guy from Planet Romeo or Hornet if he were to arrange a meeting at our hotel.
His answer was definitive; 1000 bht.
I taxed him on this; he's thirty-three and very attractive. Surely, I said, someone who looks like you wouldn't have to pay the same as an ageing falang? surely the guys on Hornet et al would be happy to accept a lower amount from you?
His answer was much the same as Firecat's; the guys are making money to pay rent ,pay for food and often to send money home.
 
"Fun" doesn't pay the rent..
 
I've learnt a lot about his two years in Pattaya. He is now doing well financially in the north of the country but being the guy that I love, he has an understanding of the situation our Pattaya friends are in. He finds the concept of under-paying distasteful and alien to his religious beliefs.....however cute we think we are. Or in my case, not at all.
 
At the same time, he speaks with some affection of those years. In particular, he's grateful for the comradeship; the way the bar-boys looked after each other. Those who'd been successful one night would buy dinner for his friends, they'd borrow money in extremis- in general terms  they'd look after each other. Particularly newbies.
 
He would appreciate Firecat's comments. He speaks from experience. And my own two decades of visiting support him.

I asked my partner of twelve years- an ex-money boy in Pattaya- about this  very issue three weeks ago when I was in Thailand.
Specifically, I asked how much he would pay a  a guy from Planet Romeo or Hornet if he were to arrange a meeting at our hotel.
His answer was definitive; 1000 bht.
I taxed him on this; he's thirty-three and very attractive. Surely, I said, someone who looks like you wouldn't have to pay the same as an ageing falang? surely the guys on Hornet et al would be happy to accept a lower amount from you?
His answer was much the same as Firecat's; the guys are making money to pay rent ,pay for food and often to send money home.
 
"Fun" doesn't pay the rent..
 
I've learnt a lot about his two years in Pattaya. He is now doing well financially in the north of the country but being the guy that I love, he has an understanding of the situation our Pattaya friends are in. He finds the concept of under-paying distasteful and alien to his religious beliefs.....however cute we think we are. Or in my case, not at all.
 
At the same time, he speaks with some affection of those years. In particular, he's grateful for the comradeship; the way the bar-boys looked after each other. Those who'd been successful one night would buy dinner for his friends, they'd borrow money in extremis- in general terms  they'd look after each other. Particularly newbies.
 
He would appreciate Firecat's comments. He speaks from experience. And my own two decades of visiting support him.

Don't forget to try the saunas....Babylon in Bangkok and Sansuk in Pattaya. I'm sure you'll be popular and it'll be free!

No Brall 3, I am not in Pattaya now....but I was two weeks ago. And I'm missing it already. I visit three times a year, every year.
 
If you ask one of the guys he will understandably give you the top price. If you were to say to him something like "1000 baht OK for you?" he'd be delighted.That is the going-price, though the straight guys at BBB may be disappointed.
 
I never asked; I gave at the end of the session. It was 1000 basic, plus 200/300 for tax and dinner.  Never any complaints. i can tell you that this remains the rate. I know guys on the scene.

Don't forget to try the saunas....Babylon in Bangkok and Sansuk in Pattaya. I'm sure you'll be popular and it'll be free!

Correct, traveller123....and a firm grip in my arm as we negotiate Pattaya 2nd road. This makes me smile since I live in London and am far better at crossing roads than my country-boy partner!

Each year low season seems lower than the one before in terms of visitors. I've just returned home from Pattaya and my impression is that this one is particularly bad. Sunee was almost deserted- at least the host bars were.I don't know about the go go bars. Boyztown was much the same as last year. Quiet but interesting enough.
One thing that had changed for the worse was the number of guys on Planet Romeo; perhaps 30% down. I suspect that is partly due to the increased popularity of Hornet.
The malls were quieter too; fewer Chinese groups, the Russian influence barely discernible.
 
Expect fewer British visitors now that we've become Little Britain and our currency pays the price.

The real rrun -off is when I approach an entrance with the intention of going in and the doorman rushes ahead, clapping his hands. I know then that the guys are sitting around playing with their phones and have to be woken-up to put on a show for me.
My heart sinks. I wish I could walk out like some do in this situation but I'm the victim of  my up-bringing; my mother would have declared such behaviour "rude."

The real rrun -off is when I approach an entrance with the intention of going in and the doorman rushes ahead, clapping his hands. I know then that the guys are sitting around playing with their phones and have to be woken-up to put on a show for me.
My heart sinks. I wish I could walk out like some do in this situation but I'm the victim of  my up-bringing; my mother would have declared such behaviour "rude."

The real rrun -off is when I approach an entrance with the intention of going in and the doorman rushes ahead, clapping his hands. I know then that the guys are sitting around playing with their phones and have to be woken-up to put on a show for me.
My heart sinks. I wish I could walk out like some do in this situation but I'm the victim of  my up-bringing; my mother would have declared such behaviour "rude."

The real rrun -off is when I approach an entrance with the intention of going in and the doorman rushes ahead, clapping his hands. I know then that the guys are sitting around playing with their phones and have to be woken-up to put on a show for me.
My heart sinks. I wish I could walk out like some do in this situation but I'm the victim of  my up-bringing; my mother would have declared such behaviour "rude."

I really don't wish to continue this on a board that I enjoy reading for pleasure  but I can't let that sort of remark pass.
It is a simplification of much more complex situation. The first khatoeys I ever saw were the  trans dancers in Marrakesh, Morocco,who have been clanging their percussion instruments  for generations untroubled in the Square.
And it was the same country that UK and US gays visited in the 50s and 60s , decades before Thailand was available, to live a gay life, as tourists and residents.
It was the Sufi Iranian poets of the 12th and 13th century who were writing erotic love poetry to male lovers, when, here in Europe, such poets would have been burnt. And it was in Bagdad, a century later , that gay life- not  that visible- flourished.
Yes, things have changed with the advent of fundamentalism but you need to ask why. It's not the Koran that changed but the impact of our western colonialism on societies in the MiIddle East which led to a reaction. And religious fundamentalism happened in other ways in other societies for different reasons....look at the US evangelicals, the Jewish Zionists, the anti-Rohingya Buddhists and Morsi's Hindus in India.,
That's my last word on this subject on this board....as it happens my mind is on where to eat tonight here in Pattaya.

I really don't wish to continue this on a board that I enjoy reading for pleasure  but I can't let that sort of remark pass.
It is a simplification of much more complex situation. The first khatoeys I ever saw were the  trans dancers in Marrakesh, Morocco,who have been clanging their percussion instruments  for generations untroubled in the Square.
And it was the same country that UK and US gays visited in the 50s and 60s , decades before Thailand was available, to live a gay life, as tourists and residents.
It was the Sufi Iranian poets of the 12th and 13th century who were writing erotic love poetry to male lovers, when, here in Europe, such poets would have been burnt. And it was in Bagdad, a century later , that gay life- not  that visible- flourished.
Yes, things have changed with the advent of fundamentalism but you need to ask why. It's not the Koran that changed but the impact of our western colonialism on societies in the MiIddle East which led to a reaction. And religious fundamentalism happened in other ways in other societies for different reasons....look at the US evangelicals, the Jewish Zionists, the anti-Rohingya Buddhists and Morsi's Hindus in India.,
That's my last word on this subject on this board....as it happens my mind is on where to eat tonight here in Pattaya.

Buddhists massacre Rohingya and Tamils though....and when it comes to violence, Christianity and Judaism are also used to justify violence. Homophobia is rife in all the major religions of the world.

Were the naked swimmers Thai or falang? Makes all the difference, you know......

I don't recognise the "fishbowl" criticism of Ambiance and, I assume, other BT hotels. On the contrary,one of the benefits of staying there is the fact that our visitors are os commonplace that no-one gives  a damn. And to be blunt, BT is not exactly heaving with gawpers- or anyone- these days.
I've not stayed outside BT for twenty years and the main reason is that I don't feel comfortable with straight customers judging me or my partners. Ambiance treats its Thai visitors with respect, whoever they are. I'd be surprised if that is the same elsewhere.

Fair enough. Some falangs have had very unfortunate experiences with a particular boyfriend (often  but not always an ex bar-boy) and assume from that that every Thai guy on the scene is dishonest and cynical.
However, I have met Thai guys through my boyfriend who have been treated equally shabbily by  falangs; promises made (not just of a financial nature) and not kept; casual dismissal when a younger or cuter guy arrives, demands on time and activities which are demeaning and inappropriate, such as denying access to friends and even family.
 One bad experience for a falang or a Thai does not necessarily mean that all of our relationships are worthless or exploitative; I have met decent Thai guys who love their falang boyfriends deeply and loyally and falangs who are equally sincere.

Fair enough. Some falangs have had very unfortunate experiences with a particular boyfriend (often  but not always an ex bar-boy) and assume from that that every Thai guy on the scene is dishonest and cynical.
However, I have met Thai guys through my boyfriend who have been treated equally shabbily by  falangs; promises made (not just of a financial nature) and not kept; casual dismissal when a younger or cuter guy arrives, demands on time and activities which are demeaning and inappropriate, such as denying access to friends and even family.
 One bad experience for a falang or a Thai does not necessarily mean that all of our relationships are worthless or exploitative; I have met decent Thai guys who love their falang boyfriends deeply and loyally and falangs who are equally sincere.

Fair enough. Some falangs have had very unfortunate experiences with a particular boyfriend (often  but not always an ex bar-boy) and assume from that that every Thai guy on the scene is dishonest and cynical.
However, I have met Thai guys through my boyfriend who have been treated equally shabbily by  falangs; promises made (not just of a financial nature) and not kept; casual dismissal when a younger or cuter guy arrives, demands on time and activities which are demeaning and inappropriate, such as denying access to friends and even family.
 One bad experience for a falang or a Thai does not necessarily mean that all of our relationships are worthless or exploitative; I have met decent Thai guys who love their falang boyfriends deeply and loyally and falangs who are equally sincere.

In matters relating to Thai culture, religion and traditions, it is best for we falangs to retain a degree of humility.  This thread began with concerns over alleged costs of ordination. The responses indicate that different posters, quoting different Thais in different places, have very different experiences. The truth is that we are outsiders- falangs in an alien culture- and with a few exceptions, have limited knowledge. Accordingly, it is inappropriate to jump to conclusions too readily when it comes to judging someone's honesty and good faith. 

What falangs do to themselves is their own business; however, I hope none of them expect or encourage  young Thai guys (some of whom are not well-educated in matters of sexual health) to engage in unsafe practices. And swallowing semen  definitely comes into that category.

What falangs do to themselves is their own business; however, I hope none of them expect or encourage  young Thai guys (some of whom are not well-educated in matters of sexual health) to engage in unsafe practices. And swallowing semen  definitely comes into that category.

They don't live their lives as monks but in the vast majority of cases do a short term....a bit like National Service in the UK in the 1950s, but much shorter. It is believed that all Thai males should serve at least once in their lifetimes and this is why a poor family, like my boyfriend's, do their utmost to raise the money.. Even the King was a monk for a short period.
My boyfriend was a a monk for one month. His best mate did a few days-less than a week-  a couple of months ago and he's thirty-four. 
I often see guys on the scene who have recently been monks- their hair takes weeks to grow back and their eyebrows even longer!e 
Steveboy may be right in this case but I suspect a degree of undue cynicism which my twenty years of visits (and twelve with my one-and-only boyfriend) doesn't support. You have try to to understand the motivations of Buddhism and the issue of monkhood is very different to the traditions which we in the west have developed.  

They don't live their lives as monks but in the vast majority of cases do a short term....a bit like National Service in the UK in the 1950s, but much shorter. It is believed that all Thai males should serve at least once in their lifetimes and this is why a poor family, like my boyfriend's, do their utmost to raise the money.. Even the King was a monk for a short period.
My boyfriend was a a monk for one month. His best mate did a few days-less than a week-  a couple of months ago and he's thirty-four. 
I often see guys on the scene who have recently been monks- their hair takes weeks to grow back and their eyebrows even longer!e 
Steveboy may be right in this case but I suspect a degree of undue cynicism which my twenty years of visits (and twelve with my one-and-only boyfriend) doesn't support. You have try to to understand the motivations of Buddhism and the issue of monkhood is very different to the traditions which we in the west have developed.