Ruthrieston

Peter, you seem to harbor a particular disdain for men in your own age group. They appear to represent everything that's wrong with the gay scene in Bangkok. You present yourself as above it all who is sought out as a sex partner when he travels aboard for the pleasure of your company. And your partners are all educated, "intelligent university men" who all approach you first. Give me a break!
So it's us slobs who are dating the hoi polloi who didn't neatly fit into your construct of your ideal sex partner. You purport to know exactly what goes on on Soi 4, Patpong and wherever us undesirables congregate.
Your have written regularly about your partner. You're the one who introduced him into various threads. You made him part of your narrative. I even agreed that he--and his friend who sleeps on the sofa bed in your living room--made a good decision in deciding not to return to a gay bar. I joked that they may have wished to wait to hear the offer from the old gent in your age range before they tossed their drinks over him. Granted if I said they may want to delay their action because their glasses maybe contained a luscious Mouton Rothschild it would have come across as the pun it was intended to be.
There's no cause to apologize for the comments of myself or Floridarob for disrupting this thread (feel free to include yourself, Peter). You have apparently missed the point that this thread (and it is indeed excellent) is all about sexual desire and seduction.
Soon or later you're going to accept the fact that you're an old timer just like the great majority of contributors to this forum. You may drink better wines and dine at better restaurants than they rest of us but you still pursue young men for your pleasure. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
 
 
 

I read your trip reports with interest. I'm sorry about your disappointment with the guy at the moonlight bar. Moonlight bar is my favorite because the staff and captains are very friendly. I loved the energy and atmosphere there. I think I lost my heart to a Laotian who worked there. I've been out with him 12 times in the last 3 trips. I am planning a new trip in 2 weeks and would like to write a report.

That has absolutely nothing to do with issue, the more so when in this forum there has also recently been a discussion about older men walking around with guys very much younger. You can take it that the two are in their mid-20s and are exactly the same age to within about 4 months. 
60 years before that I was at junior school! So your question is immaterial! As for my time from university onwards, I have never written anything other than I have enjoyed the life of a gay man to the full. I was never an angel! And having discovered Bangkok and much of the rest of Asia from 1979, I have written qute a few times that I was always a regular in go-go bars, saunas and latterly at host bars in quite a number of Asia's cities. I have never once tried to disguise that. Indeed this forum has many posts I have made not only giving guides about gay venues annd events (my several reports with extensive photographs about the annual Taipei Gay Pride Parades, for example) but also extolling the virtues of certain gay establishments, posts that others have found useful! So, again I ask, what is the point of that question?
But when @reader writes -
- he is not only making more than one incorrect and demeaning assumption, he knows perfectly well from my previous posts - and he has previously questioned with incorrect asumptions on my decision not to visit gay establishments here - that since I settled down in Thailand with my present partner I have never stepped into a gay establishment in Thailand other than once when with a dear friend from the UK who, following an excellent dinner, wished to see Telephone bar. That is just over 5 years. Given that virtually everyone anywhere close to my age on this forum who visits Thailand heads for the gay venues almost as soon as the plane lands, I suppose those elderly farang find it strange that someone who has lived here for so many years can elect not to do likewise for quite a few years.
That I don't fit the presumed sex-starved stereotype here, then I am certainly not going to apologise for it. Insult me if you wish and if you are wrong, I will give as good as I get. But as no one here knows a thing about him other than what I have written, my partner is totally off limits, the more so when others start to assume he will act as they would react in a situation like that which occurred in Balcony.
What a totally idiotic statement! You're like @reader in writing words I never stated! When did I ever write that my partner and his close friend were "drunk" or even "exaggerated" what they told me? I didn't! They weren't! And they didn't! They were having their first drink. End of that piece of rubbish. Don't assume @floridarob!
And why would you even consider that two young Thai men who are inteligent university graduates making their first ever visit to any bar in any gay street would exaggerate something as disgusting as an elderly farang propositioning them? As I wrote very recently in the thread "Offing a guy from a bar (but not for sex)", many Thais have a natural in-bred modesty. What right does any bar patron have to assume anything about another bar patron - unless it is a specified host bar or go-go bar? No right whatsoever!
When they returned to my apartment soon after, they said they felt like pieces of meat! And before you make any other wrong assumptions, my partner's friend sleeps on the sofa bed in the living room when he is here!
Lastly I apologise to @revengeboo that the assumptions and comments from @reader and @floridarob have meant I have had to disrupt his thread of truly excellent posts.

I'll just put this 🙄.... deconstruct everything in those paragraphs, how old is your partner??

 
 
But what about the 60 years before that??
Don't play the part of an angel 🙄 (yeah, that emoji again)

 
 
Yeah, and if Peter wasn't there, he's getting his panties in a twist from heresay , people are drinking/drunk at bars and say stupid or jokingly say things that are taken out of context, whatever.....  bf's have been known to exaggerate 
 

Now you just add insult to injury. I AM NOT "on the prowl for young men" whereever I travel. NEVER! For years I have rarely visited a gay bar anywhere outside Thailand. on my own. I visit when friends take me. Yes, I have been to saunas occasionally. For your information gay saunas are where virtually all customers go to find other guys. For your further information, men and guys in Taiwan would never even dream of going up to others in the Red House bars and cafes (the gay equivalent of Soi 4) with any similar proposition. NEVER!
When I meet guys on the apps overseas, they initiate the conversations. I can think of perhaps three occasions at most in the last five years when I have been the one to start it up. So never assume that other posters do overseas what you and others might do here in Bangkok.
I would certainly never ASSUME that anyone is in a gay bar like Balcony simply for the purpose of solicitating others into paid sex. In any case, as you know perfectly well, paid sex has not been my thing for many years. I certainy would never dream of approaching any guy in a bar like Balcony. In case you are not aware, it is not a host club! It is a public bar in a public street both of which happen to cater primarily to customers who are gay. That one farang customer should have the gall to ruin the evening of two bright, intelligent young Thai guys is shocking! As @khaolakguy so rightly points out, this is no doubt one of the reasons many Thais no longer visit farang gay places like Soi 4.
That is absolutely nothing like what happened to my partner and his friend. You simply have used an example of what actually happened to your twisted narrative. Is it not true that that guy basically took the initiative and proposed to you and you took him up and back to your hotel? Did my partner and his friend do something similar? Nothing like it! They were doing nothing but having a drink. They did not approach anyone. If you are going to quote comparisons, quote like with like - not like with unlike!

Jomtien Complex is not one of the designated entertainment zones, and therefore is not permitted to stay open until 4am, they must close at 2am. All of the bars were informed of this by the complex.

Jomtien Complex is not one of the designated entertainment zones, and therefore is not permitted to stay open until 4am, they must close at 2am. All of the bars were informed of this by the complex.

Jomtien Complex is not one of the designated entertainment zones, and therefore is not permitted to stay open until 4am, they must close at 2am. All of the bars were informed of this by the complex.

Jomtien Complex is not one of the designated entertainment zones, and therefore is not permitted to stay open until 4am, they must close at 2am. All of the bars were informed of this by the complex.

Jomtien Complex is not one of the designated entertainment zones, and therefore is not permitted to stay open until 4am, they must close at 2am. All of the bars were informed of this by the complex.

I agree but I'd hope they might want to hold off until they head the offer.

When I heard about it, I was probably more appalled than they were at the elderly farang's behaviour. To assume that two guys in a bar for a drink and to people watch were money boys, to say so to their faces and then suggest he'd pay for their company for the night is disgraceful. I told the guys they should just have thrown their drinks over him!

In which case, you'll need to take a lot more than $100 I'd imagine!

A superb multi-post report. As you have discovered, Thailand never ceases to surprise! My partner who basically put himself through school and university while working at various jobs, including a factory, had never been to any gay bar or other gay venue when we met. Through his relatively recent best friend, a gay Thai of his own age also at university, he had learned about the apps. His friend knew of places like Soi 4 and DJ station and one evening persuaded my partner to have drinks at Balcony Bar so he could see at least a bit of nightlife.
Both guys are attractive. While they were having a drink at the bar, an elderly farang came up to them and said "hello!" He then added, "How much to have the two of you for the night?" They were actually appalled and hastened to leave the bar. My partner's friend is desperate to meet a mid-40-ish German and hopes to end up married in Europe. He meets quite a number of guys on the apps but all seem to want just sex (surprise!). But he had rarely gone to gay venues and never wants to return!

I have taken 3 muscular guys from moonlight, none of them are gay, and all 3 performs well. My type are manly muscular guys, which usually means str8 guy, so i had low rates of hiring muscular gays.

Sound like your paranoid or reading one thing then looking at another ,
Someone sending you a message saying they had sympathy for your health problem apparently?
But if your so worried about this posters concern then report it the moderators 
I recall my late mother once saying to me the neighbour had knocked on her door to say she heard she went to hospital and if she needed anything,my mother was livid , how dare she ask about my illness,how dare she show concern,does she think I'm bedridden or something.
I guess in the back of your mind when people are showing concern/sympathy over your illness you suddenly realise your becoming old and think people should just mind their own business!
Well I hope whatever illness you have you recover ok , yes I would report that person who asked you about your sickness to the mods ,how dare they show any concern.
I think I might know who it is , he also sent me a message when I had covid asking if I was ok .
I thought traveller Jim had passed on though 
 
 
 

In my private mailbox this morning was a message forwarded from this site wherein another poster said to me:
"You took to me to post bro  Don't reply to my posts again ok  One warning ok  "
 
But when I went to my mailbox here, the message had changed. Now it said:
"I feel empathy  for you not keeping yourself fit with all the sickness you have 
Hope you get better in your age , but as you said your 76 the bright side is you won't be suffering for much longer"
 
Now I had suggested that this old fellow might not be right for this board, given his posts. So what should I think now?

Inaccurate - as usual. Having closed all eight border crossings last month, Finland today is re-opening just two of them and only until January 14. This came with a warning that the crossings could be completely closed again at any time in the future.
So much for "propagandistic political hysteria"! 

From The Nation

The first phase of the Dusit Central Park mega mixed-use property development is set to open in the second half of next year, chief investment officer La-ead Kovavisaruch said on Wednesday.
The first phase, she revealed, would see the official opening of Dusit Thani Hotel, while other facilities such as an office, a department store, and ultra-luxurious residences will be ready in 2025-26.
She cited recent Dusit Residences and Dusit Parkside sales figures as proof.
According to the sales report, it outperformed the initial target by approximately 80%. With over 300 units sold out of a total of 406 units, customer insights reveal strong interest in specific room types.
The buyer demographic is made up of 75% Thais and 25% foreigners. The vast majority of foreigners are Asian. Some clients, however, come from the Middle East, Europe, and America. They plan to either settle or invest in Thailand.

The majority of the park's 11,200 square metres would be open to the public, with a portion privately reserved for its residents.
She emphasised that the Roof Park, a green oasis in the heart of the city, reflected the project's commitment to urban ecology with an amphitheater, jogging track, and urban farm.
 

From Thai PBS World
Taiwan’s Foreign Ministry has instructed its representative in Bangkok to investigate a car accident, in which an injured Taiwanese tourist was allegedly denied medical treatment by a hospital and died while being transferred to another.
Taiwan News online reported that the ministry also expressed its concern over the matter to the Thailand Trade and Economic Office in Taipei and asked them to convey its request to take the matter seriously to the Thai government.
Details of the accident are still unclear, but initial reports state that a person called “Chen” was a victim of a hit-and-run accident on Pattanakarn Road at about 2am on December 8.
Rescuers rushed Chen, who was still alive, to a private hospital only 500 meters from the scene of the accident. Staff there allegedly refused to admit Chen, despite his severe injuries, because he was a foreigner.
He was then taken to a state hospital about 10km away, a journey during which he succumbed to his injuries.
Chen’s death came to light after a Taiwanese media outlet posted the story online, which spread to Thailand.
It is reported that police have arrested the 51-year-old driver, who drove away instead of helping Chen. He was allegedly intoxicated.
Upon learning of the case, Thailand’s Public Health Minister Cholnan Srikaew ordered an investigation, stating that a hospital cannot deny medical treatment to an emergency patient.
Cholnan said hospital staff denying treatment to a critically ill emergency patient could face a jail term of up to two years and/or fines of up to Bt40,000.
Cholnan also admitted today that the incident could affect the confidence of foreign tourists visiting Thailand and, since Thailand is a major tourist destination for Taiwanese holidaymakers, the government must take full responsibility and demonstrate publicly that it will solve the problem and prevent a reoccurrence.

Thanks @unicorn for that detailed explanation. Whatever happens with Trump - and hopefully he will be behind bars unless the conservative sex pests (two of them) on the Supreme Court weigh in to ensure that he can return to office and stay out of jail long enough to pardon himself and all his clan and cronies - I totally fail to understand why Biden is running again, unless he has a monster ego. I have written before that if the average working man has to retire beween 65 and 70, politicians, judges and their ilk should likewise have to step down at roughy the same age. Some people will argue that this could stop someone with a brilliant brain like a Warren Buffet (albeit he works in a different field), from being elected. So what? Aren't there ageing Presidential advisers by the hundreds? For the free world to have a leader taking office at the age of 82 should he be re-elected and continuing into the second half of his 80s, is in my view ridiculous. The chance of anyone that age having to step down if not dying in office must be pretty high. And that leaves the Vice-President to take charge with the ultra right-wing leader of the House next in line. With Kamala Harris virtually a non-starter on the world stage, the leaders of Russia and China must be as thrilled as anyone. How could the Democratic Party leaders not have planned for Biden as a one-term President and then prepared itself and the country for a confirmed next in line? Does Biden have the right to make all the major decisions?
From what I have read, the anti-vaccination Robert Kennedy is a joke with all his conspiracy theories, whatever good he may have done in other areas. He's also been convicted of using heroin. From what you write about Ralph Nader in 2000, isn't that basically the problem with occasional individuals who decide it would be a nice idea to be President. Yet what would be wrong with a third and perhaps a fourth political party with different platforms, each fielding candidates iin most or many states? 
Yes, I know! It's money! The present system is so entrenched, the big money donors would never stand the establishment of other parties. And here again the Supreme Court weighed in to ensure that there was no stopping mega-donors. So is this not just one of many good reasons for having a Supreme Court that is not made up of political appointees? I wonder how many times Biden has regretted his railroading of Clarence Thomas on to the bench, especially when he refused to allow other witnesses to Thomas' sexual peccadilloes to testify.
I always slightly cringe when I hear America's leaders of virtually all persuasions talk about democracy and how the US is the most democratic country in the world. In terms of the number of positions from President down to County Sheriff that have to be regularly elected, that may be true. But as an example of true democracy where the country's eaders are elected freely and fairly, the US is hardly in any position to lecture others. Being fair, neither is Britain; or France; or Italy; or Japan; or Singapore . . . the list goes on and on. There have been threads on this forum calling for a greater and more transparent democracy in Thailand. Under the present constitution, Thailand's democracy is rigged. But isn't the US Presidential election also rigged, only in a different way? Is there in fact any free and fair democracy anywhere in the world?
 
 

Thanks for correcting me. One thing has always nagged at me - and it affects other countries as well. Why just a 2-party system? In my lifetime I can only remember one third party candidate having any major effect in the USA - Ross Perot in 1992 when he gained nearly 19 milion votes. Was there ever a time when there was a credible third party?
I know at one time Britain did have a credible third party in first the Liberal Party and its later incarnation in the 1980s as the Liberal Democrats. After initial enthusiasm it basically died. The Liberal Party had been a major political player in the 19th and early 20th centuries but then became merely a rump of about a dozen parliamentarians. Its leader had been a man obviously very full of his own importance, Jeremy Thorpe, who had married the divorced wife of a cousin of the Queen despite being homosexual - and well known as such in parliamentary circles.
Thorpe had been in a longish relationship with a riding instructor and part time model named Norman Scott whom he had met when Scott was 20. For 14 years this on-again off-again relationship continued until Thorpe decided it had to end to ensure survival of his political career. He persuaded friends to murder Scott. It was a hugely bungled affair which led only to the killing of Scott's dog! The trial of Thorpe and his co-conspirators took place on 1979. The judge was very obviously totally biased, callng Scott "a fraud, a sponger, a whiner, a parasite," and another of Thorpe's accusers "a humbug!" To all that he reminded the jury to pay attention to Thorpe's distinguished record of public service. Thorpe was acquitted despite 99% of the public certain he was guilty. It was the end of Thorpe's career.
The affair was made into a rather good BBC series A Very English Scandal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OK-1hwEmA8&t=2s

Epilogue: I continue to get a stream of texts from the boys of Pattaya.  Eventually, I sent $100 US via Western Union to the robotically efficient Cambodian twink for dentistry work.  Lenny would like me to visit his country and meet his family.
I've now had the full MB experience. 

Day 8
Since my first non-paid Grindr hookup went so well, albeit fleeting, I continued to try my hand at more of the faces and torsos clogging my inbox. Even at the Furama Fitness Center, which appeared untouched for years, I noticed men roaming the hallways. Some of them reached out to me on Grindr, rather than you know, talk to me, but I was eagerly trying to get in one last workout before the end of my trip.
Eventually, one local guy caught my attention. He had an average build, spoke excellent English, and possessed a charming personality, all of which intrigued me enough to invite him over. He was quite amiable, and we surprisingly ended up spending most of the day together. Our time was split between lounging in the hotel room naked and doing Side things and exploring various parts of the city. This turn of events was unexpected, but I was pleased to have the opportunity to visit some genuine tourist sites. These experiences provided me with stories to share with friends and family, who might be less interested in the more hedonistic aspects of my journey.
Lenny, the Cambodian guy I met at the pool party on Day 2, sent me a message. He had returned to town after a brief trip back to his home country over the weekend. It appears that cross-border travel is common among Cambodians, possibly for visa reasons or trade. Despite not knowing his exact reasons, I felt a surge of excitement at his return. I contemplated the possibility of hooking up and mustered up the courage to suggest hanging out. Eagerly, I let him know that it would be great to spend some time together.
Around 6PM, my Side buddy departed and I would finally make my way to R3 Sauna.  Initially when I planned this trip I intended to visit most of the talked about saunas like R3, Krubb, Heaven and Chakran, going so far as to map out as best I could using Line and Twitter what the different naked, orgy or porn star days were to maximize impact.  However, as my trip came to a close I just did not have the time nor the stamina to barnstorm that many brothels as I had imagined from my short stint in Sauna Mania that these spas were less likely a relaxing oasis with some hanky panky but full-fledged sex clubs with an ancillary steam room as decor.
The ride to R3 was long and exhausting, dealing with the traffic and chaotic driving that the inner streets of Bangkok enjoy.  However, once there, I was treated to an attractive lobby for a sex club and familiarly gruff attendant.  I forgot how much the entry fee was, perhaps 500 baht.  It was naked day, as I had figured, and I was greeted by two muscular hosts at the entrance to the locker room.   They explained it was naked day, yet they vexingly wore underwear, but I was happy to oblige, confident that this time I would no longer be the odd man out like at Sauna Mania with such a scandalous outfit. I’d be wrong, but for different reasons.   
The near pitch-black conditions throughout most of the club caught me off guard, possibly because it was 'Naked Day' or maybe this was a regular feature. I carefully made my way to the main area of the club after a few mistarts getting lost in service areas and random dark spaces. Initially, the attendance was sparse, with just a few locals and foreigners casually moving around. No one was apparently hooking up, just furious cruising.
The club was a unique, vertical space, stretching tall and narrow, with several floors interconnected by a labyrinth of stairwells and doors. Navigating through its dimly lit and winding corridors, I got lost in the maze-like layout more than once. At one point, the surprise of an unexpected grope from a stranger made me jump, a testament to my disorientation in the darkened environment. The club comprised four primary levels: two floors were dedicated to maze-like darkrooms. The third floor housed the sauna amenities, though the steam room felt desolate, and the dry sauna was notably cramped. In contrast, the fourth level offered a more open space, brightened occasionally by shafts of sunlight piercing through.
Ultimately, I settled on the top floor. It wasn't long before a unique individual approached me – a Thai local in his twenties, distinctively covered in thick black hair, a stark contrast to the smoother appearances I'd encountered thus far. Our interaction was fun as he was a adept bottom, and it led to a memorable time in a private room. He skillfully navigated us through the club's shadowy stairwells and corridors, his familiarity with the place almost as if he knew it by scent, briefly losing me in his swift movements.
By 8PM, an announcement revealed the start of the porn party, an event I hadn't anticipated. Intrigued, I eagerly headed towards a newly accessible area resembling a dungeon. The two muscular hosts who had initially greeted me at the locker room were now overseeing a table that marked the entrance to this new sauna section. This area could be accessed via a different, almost pitch-black stairwell on the third floor.
They handed me a random ration of condoms and lube and took the small washcloth I was carrying to dry myself from a shower.  Absolutely no fabric was to enter this level.  When I reached the bottom of the stairwell I was in full Mr. Magoo mode, reaching my hands out for fear of slamming into a wall and dipping my toes into the unseen floor to ensure there was no cliff and impending demise.  It was extremely dark.  But in time, I was able to navigate myself to the rooms where now nearly 50 people were already involved in an orgy-like scene with porn stars wearing glowsticks on their wrists and a promoter flashing a light beam every so often; the rare moments I could visually soak in the young smooth bodies that were pressed up against one another.  Lines queued nearby these pornstars on fuck tables for eager participants to take turns running a train on the local celebrity - or to be railed depending on the professional slut. There were six in total spread out across this floor.  Everyone there seemed very young and very in shape.  I had a few reciprocal gropes and fondling, but for the most part, the crowd was fixated on the stars.
From my research, I understood that saunas located away from Silom Road often cater more to local preferences, a theory that seemed to hold true given my different experiences here compared to Sauna Mania. Despite the contrasting receptions, I found the environment still worthwhile. As a Side, navigating through the close quarters of this sauna, allowing myself to molest the tight, rubbery muscles in this claustrophobic environment, was fun.
By 10 PM, I returned to my hotel without hearing from Lenny, so I decided to visit Moonlight. I couldn't recall the specific reason for choosing this destination and didn't have high expectations. Ultimately, the experience there turned out to be mostly unremarkable.
I arrived during the show in progress and was ushered to a seat with a large pole right in the middle of my sight line and the stage.  This position caused me to lean awkwardly to enjoy the magnificently attractive and talented dancer strut and spin along to their dance numbers.  However, unlike Jupiter 2018, these impressive Adonises did not wear numbers.  The entire show was to extract tips of 1000 baht from the audience as their reward.  A ladyboy host was quick to take a seat next to me, encouraging me to tip as it was “only $30.”   Absolutely not.  
The show concluded with a lineup of boys, each with a number. They were noticeably more attractive than those I recalled from Dreamboy, yet they stood motionless, almost like statues. Reeling from sexual tension from R3, I impulsively decided to off a model, alerting the ladyboy, who continued whispering in my ear about the different boys eschewing the customary drink. I chose a shirtless young man who boasted a well-defined eight-pack and a captivating smile. He introduced himself, now without the benefit of the stage and dramatic lighting, revealing a noticeably smaller frame.  Honestly, I remember little about him, apart from the host mentioning that he was gay and 'up for anything.'
After a short tuk-tuk ride back to the Furama, he revealed that his headdress was not just a fashion statement but also a cover for a recent hair transplant, and hence, showering was not an option for him. The evening progressed to muscle worship, blow jobs and handjobs, but it turned out to be entirely forgettable. There was a lack of the chemistry I had hoped for. This experience underscored the potential downside of skipping the initial 'getting-to-know-you' drink. 
His nervous demeanor was palpable, possibly due to discomfort from his recent hair procedure, which he briefly showed me, and ouch.  I believe the entire hit to my pocket was again about 3000 baht.  Off to bed for the last slumber in Thailand.

 

distribution of money doesn't equal multiplying it