Babylon: "Newbie Question" from an Old-Timer

[nynakedtop]

Hey guys...

 

Good to be back in BKK after an absence of some four years... I am, of course, putting together a trip report with what are, to me at least, some interesting observations from a different lens (why are there the same massage boys on Soi Twilight as when I left last time?),but that will come with the easing of persistent jet lag discomfort (long trip from New York...)

 

For the moment, a Babylon question, though... I have a friend arriving from Manila in a few days and he is eager to try some more open settings for play. As I recall, there is a sort of dungeon-y area at Babylon but when I was there (yesterday) I could not find it, which makes me think that not all areas are open at all times ... I was there for day time poolside relaxation.

 

Can anyone help me/us out here? 

 

BTW.... Not to dilute my own topic, but let me throw in a side query... When I went back to my old fave, the now rather sad Super A, I was really annoyed by the pressure to buy drinks for people I had no interest in. How can one politely decline such unwanted pressure?

 

Thanks - and good to be back!

[Jhoony]

4.30 or so the other side accessed through the courtyard bat opens. Go upstairs and then you can go downstairs to the dungeons bit. I think sometimes that area is nude. Enjoy.

[steveboy]

The last time I was at Babylon was in April 2016, but from immemorial times they have besides a main area that includes the pool a second area which opens later in the afternoon (5PM?) which includes the patio with the bar, the large collection of open showers ending in the second dark steam room, and a large fraction of the upstairs rooms.  A third area with more upstairs rooms opens only on special occasions.

[vinapu]

 

 

 I was really annoyed by the pressure to buy drinks for people I had no interest in. How can one politely decline such unwanted pressure?

 

 

Only drink you are supposed to buy is your own. Sure you can politely or at times not even very politely , decline buying it for others although pressure probably will continue unfortunately.

Easier to say than stand your ground so if you really want to spend some time in the bar be prepared to succumb and buy the damn drink if only to avoid pestering and still to have a chance to ogle boys.

[Guest ceeee]

The dungeon area is closed until September for remolding. They are introducing a new format.

[GoldMember]

You recall correctly. When I was in Babylon Oct 2016 that area was open on Sunday evening (but not on a Tuesday afternoon). I think it is only open on specific times of the week. It is a naked zone. It is located on a lower level with special stairs. There is a staff member that takes your towel and gives you a bracelet for you to take your towel back upon going up. It is indeed a semi open dungeony area with some open and some private space for play.

[DeWinter]

Naked zone only Sunday evening?

[GoldMember]

Naked zone only Sunday evening?

Not sure if only on Sunday evening. But certainly it is not always open since it was closed on Tuesday afternoon on the same week.

[anddy]

yes, that "naked zone" at Babylon is not always open. It may or may not be open daily, but only later in the evenings, I think something like from pm, but that may vary depending on the weekday, too. Unortunately, their website is not well maintained with regard to information about such details.

 

Alternatively, if you want open play, I'd suggest and recommend the orgy parties ar R3 Sauna, most Saturdays I think. Check their website www.r3sauna.com

[GoldMember]

Alternatively, if you want open play, I'd suggest and recommend the orgy parties ar R3 Sauna, most Saturdays I think. Check their website www.r3sauna.com

Totally agreed! I visited that place on the same trip, last October. Reported on the 4th paragraph of this link:

http://www.gaythailand.com/forums/topic/10608-here-i-go-again-bkk-oct-2016-report/?p=98922

[steveboy]

The small "naked zone" at Babylon is a favorable addition they did several years ago, maybe in response of criticisms that the place lacked such entertainment.  It is accessed from the upper cruising area that opens in the afternoon, guarded by an attendant who takes the towels of the guests entering naked, and leads down some hard stair case to the small dark maze. It is a good start, and hopefully the owner sees the potential of making it more exciting, although he has enough business already.  I would suggest to have two rooms, one with soapy water raining down, the other with clean water showering down to clean the soap. There is nothing that heats up so much and refreshes at the same time than a nude crowd rubbing together in foam baths.

[reader]

 

When I went back to my old fave, the now rather sad Super A, I was really annoyed by the pressure to buy drinks for people I had no interest in. How can one politely decline such unwanted pressure?

 

 

I always try to do it with a smile.  Having said that, I admit I have a soft spot for these three holes-in-the-wall (Golden Cock, Nature Boy and SA) and end up buying more drinks than I originally intended.

 

Rising real estate values in that soi will probably gobble up the buildings in the not too distant future. The bars may not be much to look but oh how I wish there were ones like them back home. Guess I have that in the back of my mind whenever I'm the neighborhood.

 

Another option if you've decided on a particular guy is to just pay the off fee without buying drinks or take him upstairs for massage (500 bht in either case, plus tip of course).

[nynakedtop]

I always try to do it with a smile.  Having said that, I admit I have a soft spot for these three holes-in-the-wall (Golden Cock, Nature Boy and SA) and end up buying more drinks than I originally intended.

 

Rising real estate values in that soi will probably gobble up the buildings in the not too distant future. The bars may not be much to look but oh how I wish there were ones like them back home. Guess I have that in the back of my mind whenever I'm the neighborhood.

 

Another option if you've decided on a particular guy is to just pay the off fee without buying drinks or take him upstairs for massage (500 bht in either case, plus tip of course).

 

So I went to Golden Cock last night and it was one of my worst experiences... The obnoxious mamasan (I guess it was) seems to have bought himself a drink on my tab and then proceeded to block access to me by some of the cite guys there. (Mind you there were only 3 or 4 guys working there at all...) And then - as I was leaving (in order to get away from him), he wanted 100B for the taxi ride home... Argh!

 

I know I should know better by now, but how do you make someone who you just are not interested in go away??? None of my subtle hints worked at all... and i am just too polite for my own good I guess - Cannot muster up the courage to give a good old fashioned SHOO - GO AWAY!

 

Anyone want to tell me a sure fire solution? When I go into a bar I really want to relax and check stuff out... tough when you are the only customer, right?

[spoon]

Being subtle is really the worst thing u can do there. Be direct but polite with smiles or jokingly says what u want. And do that fake laugh afterwards. Do it the thai way haha. But if u like one of the boys, ask the mamasan to do their job which is to call the boy to sit next to you. Someone mentioned give the annoying mamasan very little tips would send the message too. In short, there is no one way to deal with any annoying situation. Sometimes one way work with one person but not with another. But if u are being direct, at least one part of the communication is clear.

[nynakedtop]

Being subtle is really the worst thing u can do there. Be direct but polite with smiles or jokingly says what u want. And do that fake laugh afterwards. Do it the thai way haha. But if u like one of the boys, ask the mamasan to do their job which is to call the boy to sit next to you. Someone mentioned give the annoying mamasan very little tips would send the message too. In short, there is no one way to deal with any annoying situation. Sometimes one way work with one person but not with another. But if u are being direct, at least one part of the communication is clear.

I am totally down with what you have written...

 

I guess my frustration lies in the fact that I believe that, as a customer, I should not have to do "that much work" when all I want to do is have a good time, hehe...

 

But, then again, much as I hate to admit it, it comes down to the "This is Thailand Syndrome"!

[reader]

Sorry to hear you had a bad time at GC.  Four, maybe five, "available" guys is the norm in my experience there.  Two others who've been present were the bartender and mamasan, the latter noticeably older.

 

Regarding the tab, it's Vinapu's advice (and I solidly endorse it) is to pay by the round and not run a tab.  I learned this on my first visit there when the bartender tried to overcharge me after several rounds.  When I called him on it he pulled out a calculator and made it read nearly 700 over what it should have come to. Although I had neglected checking the chits as they arrived in the bin, I was keeping a close count. I said sure, sure, laughed and gave him the correct amount, rounding it up to the next hundred. He put the calculator back under the bar and that was it.

 

As for the mamasan, I didn't have a particular problem with him but did buy him a drink on a subsequent visit (obviously, never brought the bartender one).

 

Spoon's right: don't loose your cool but don't hesitate to be direct. You'll get treated better if you do.  Sometimes I find it's better to pick the guy I like sooner rather than later, pay the off and be gone.  No hassle and cheaper in the long run IMO. But if you want to sample more of the wares on offer, pay by the round. And there were on my visits a few "wares" worth sampling.

[vinapu]

. But if u like one of the boys, ask the mamasan to do their job which is to call the boy to sit next to you. 

I for one actually do that job by myself and motion boy to come without asking mamasan to do that.

 

Very rarely I tip mamasans and only if they either helped me with something or I like them. On my last visit to Nice Boys when told mamasan that I like bigger boys he actually told me how to get to Boyztown where I should have my types - this I liked and I think he earned his tip honestly , not that I needed this info from him but still...

 

Being direct work the best , usually when they ask for tips I tell them "I tip boys only" and when they ask for drink I employ short

' no' but when bar hopping sometimes I'm saturated with drinks then I found mamasans handy. I tell them " I don't want drink but I will buy one for you". That way bar has drink sold, I'm left alone and mamasan is my friend.

 

 

 

Regarding the tab, it's Vinapu's advice (and I solidly endorse it) is to pay by the round and not run a tab. 

This is what I do and not only in bars and not only in Thailand. Learned my lesson in long gone my  youth and ever since I'm firm believer in pay as you go system. And I try to have exact change to deprive them chance of shortchanging me.

[steveboy]

This is what I do and not only in bars and not only in Thailand. Learned my lesson in long gone my  youth and ever since I'm firm believer in pay as you go system. And I try to have exact change to deprive them chance of shortchanging me.

Experience is a valuable asset.

[ChristianPFC]

And then - as I was leaving (in order to get away from him), he [Golden Cock mamasan] wanted 100B for the taxi ride home... Argh!

 

How did that happen? I hope you didn't let them interfere with taxi?

[nynakedtop]

How did that happen? I hope you didn't let them interfere with taxi?

ohh sorry if i was unclear...

 

what i meant to say was that this disagreeable mamasan who kept trying to get me to take him for the evening as i was leaving asked me to give him 100THB so that he could take a taxi home.... nothing to do with my transportation - it was just the final insult to a bad experience!

 

again - apologies....

 

btw: business planning 101 - don't piss off a customer - i did not go back there tonight!

[steveboy]

btw: business planning 101 - don't piss off a customer - i did not go back there tonight!

Can I add another recommendation? 

 

Assertiveness 101 -  Don't let others piss you off, instead let the other party get pissed off if he chooses and if it does not have serious consequences for yourself.

[a447a]

I'm stunned to read about your experience at Golden Cock.

 

That kind of behaviour is exactly what I have experienced many times in the past - but at Super A next door, never, ever at GC. Are you sure you haven't gotten the two bars mixed up?

 

I've written enthusiastically about GC, especially over the past year, when new guys turned up and who are very open to fun in the bar. I'm talking about the kind of fun associated with Goodboys in Pattaya or Nature Boys down the street. Full on sex happens every day in my room with my regular from the bar - a guy I've known for years.

 

GC is now my go - to bar in Bangkok.

 

The mamasan is the slightly fem guy with the wide smile. Is that the guy who bought himself a drink and demanded 100 baht?? I can't believe it! Totally out of character, as far as I'm concerned.

 

When it comes time to pay, they always go through the bill item by item. I also know how many drinks I've had and how many boys I've "entertained" and I've never been ripped off. On the contrary, it's 400 baht to the bar for each chuck-wow, but sometimes they just charge me once, no matter how many boys are involved.

 

Please, please tell me you have confused the two bars!

[nynakedtop]

I'm stunned to read about your experience at Golden Cock.

 

That kind of behaviour is exactly what I have experienced many times in the past - but at Super A next door, never, ever at GC. Are you sure you haven't gotten the two bars mixed up?

 

I've written enthusiastically about GC, especially over the past year, when new guys turned up and who are very open to fun in the bar. I'm talking about the kind of fun associated with Goodboys in Pattaya or Nature Boys down the street. Full on sex happens every day in my room with my regular from the bar - a guy I've known for years.

 

GC is now my go - to bar in Bangkok.

 

The mamasan is the slightly fem guy with the wide smile. Is that the guy who bought himself a drink and demanded 100 baht?? I can't believe it! Totally out of character, as far as I'm concerned.

 

When it comes time to pay, they always go through the bill item by item. I also know how many drinks I've had and how many boys I've "entertained" and I've never been ripped off. On the contrary, it's 400 baht to the bar for each chuck-wow, but sometimes they just charge me once, no matter how many boys are involved.

 

Please, please tell me you have confused the two bars!

My friend - I promise you that I do not have the places confused - I arrived sober and sane, and left sober, if a bit less sane.

 

Because I find the whole Soi Twilight scene a bit alienating, I am pledged to support these off-the-beaten-track places, and I always arrive with the best of intentions. I have had "issues" at Super A, yes -- but I could manage them better than GC. We are absolutely talking about the same mamasan - quite fem, broad smile, hair slicked back... but he seemed to be quite "in character" with you, physically hijacking the space, coming on way too strong, and definitely deciding on my behalf that i would be buying him a drink.

 

there was a lad in the place who i liked.... a somewhat larger framed, soft spoken guy who, while not my usual "type" intrigued me - but the mamasan made it clear that i would either take "her" or no one at all.

 

i am actually pleased that you have had better experiences that I had there - it's a place that i want to like, but.... ughhhhh, y'know????

[vinapu]

Can I add another recommendation? 

 

Assertiveness 101 -  Don't let others piss you off, instead let the other party get pissed off if he chooses and if it does not have serious consequences for yourself.

if guy buys himself drink on my   tab without asking me, even if I refuse to pay I'm already pissed off. How one can prevent it? by pretending nothing happened? or just shrugging it off ? I wonder 

[nynakedtop]

if guy buys himself drink on my   tab without asking me, even if I refuse to pay I'm already pissed off. How one can prevent it? by pretending nothing happened? or just shrugging it off ? I wonder 

great question...

 

even though i am a new yorker, when i am on holiday i do not want to have confrontations... so, for me, i think to myself, well - this was one bad experience, perhaps i could have managed it better... but at least i will learn for the next time.

 

so, i spent maybe $3USD on something i did not want.... oh well....